Vacation Club Points Survey

[davidvel]

Marriott has no control over this which is II's exchange policy. If II was smart they would increase the preference period to induce MORE Marriott owners to submit their weeks to II instead of Marriott's.

I cant see Marriott not having some type of control over II's treatment of Marriott weeks. Who decides where a property is traded (such as RCI or II)? is it Marriott or the HOA?

The owner has the right to decide what to do with their week (rent, use, exchange, gift). You can trade with anyone who will take(or manage) your week: Redweek, II, ownertrades, Aunt Edna, etc.

I am sure there are agreements between Marriott and II, but the issue was if Marriott ended those. If Marriott severs their ties with II (which I don't think they will do), II can still have its policies as it wants, including preference for Marriott.

 

[VacationPro]

Those absolutely should get the maximum points and probably will IMO.





The difference is in the classifications. Starwood calls their typical high season for most resorts "platinum plus", whether it is located in Palm Springs or Hawaii. But, many of starwood resorts do not even have a platinum plus season, i.e. SBP, PGA and all Orlando resorts. These are more comparable to what I was referring to (Manor Club & Legends Edge) and do not generate enough points from their high seasons to trade into Hawaii annualy.

I do agree that the priority period for getting back into your home resort is worth something in itself, but it appears that Marriott will want an exta annual fee for this option. Unless Marriott is planning on putting all MF's on even keel and adding the "priority fees" on top of that, I wouldn't be for an equal-points-for-all-platinums type of system.


Terry

I think you are mistaken on Starwood. There are special, holiday weeks, but those are not an entire season. The difference in Starwood is the brand--a platinum at a Sheraton does not equate to a platinum in Westin (with I think one exception, which is Sheraton Mountain Vista in Colorado). A platinum at Westin Kierland in Scottsdale, will trade on a yearly basis into a platinum at the Westin in Hawaii, St. John (based on availability), or Cancun.

 

[JimC]

It is also MUCH easier to devalue a point system. I am sure Marriott will come up with some statement like "the points at this resort will ALWAYS be the same and NEVER go up..." like DVC.

However, every new resort they build requires more and more points, some almost double. So if you bought points in 2009 and you needed 20,000 to get a room in resort X, by 2019, the new resort right next to X will cost you 40,000 points. X will be considered the older, less glamorous resort and all of a sudden everyone has to buy twice as many points to stay in the nicer places.

That doesn't happen when you buy a platinum week and trade it to another resort 10 years later without a point system in play.

Katherine

Actually DVC can change its point schedules at any of its resorts. It did so in 1996 at OKW. It may change the allocation of points increasing some and decreasing others as long as they do not change the total points required for the resort. As I understand it they felt a need to fine tune the system after several years of actual experience with the membership.

My concern is even more short term. What will be required for a week at each resort? This could severely limit exchanges if the range of week point requirements is extreme.

 

[Zac495]

I haven't received anything. I am resale and developer owner.
I've been reading this thread and I'm still confused.

There is just no way I'm giving Marriott any more of my money!

My maintenance for Aruba with the assessment is going to be over 2300 this year alone.

 

[JimIg23]

I have been looking at some other threads about points. One thread about Wyndham Disneyland is that the points to reserve it is almost double that of an older resort. 5 years from now, I wonder how much our resort points will be worth compared to all the new Marriotts that get built. My EOY may turn into a EFY (Every fourth Year)

 

[m61376]

I have been looking at some other threads about points. One thread about Wyndham Disneyland is that the points to reserve it is almost double that of an older resort. 5 years from now, I wonder how much our resort points will be worth compared to all the new Marriotts that get built. My EOY may turn into a EFY (Every fourth Year)

That's a big concern of mine if they allocate different point values to same season weeks at different resorts. Newer properties will cost more upfront and, thus, likely to get larger point allocations and command higher points for trading into. Older properties, while purchased at a lower cost, are likely to have higher ongoing costs, as MF's and special assessments are necessitated from time to time to maintain the property, yet unlikely to be reflected in point valuations.

So, current owners will increasingly get less value for their money (effectively increasing the per night rate and decreasing the value of timesharing ownership). With ever increasing MF's making people reconsider the value of ownership versus rental in the first place, creating a system which further potentially devalues ownership and will likely continue to do so is going to make future sales even more difficult. Current buyers are attracted to Marriot because of the prospect not only of enjoying vacations at today's resorts, but at the 2 dozen or so on the horizon. However, if they find out that a week at today's resort will likely be worth 5 days or so a few years down the road at the newer resorts, I would think that would give many prospective purchasers pause.

 

[SDKath]

I have been looking at some other threads about points. One thread about Wyndham Disneyland is that the points to reserve it is almost double that of an older resort. 5 years from now, I wonder how much our resort points will be worth compared to all the new Marriotts that get built. My EOY may turn into a EFY (Every fourth Year)

Exactly! AND, the cost of points of course will continue to go up with time, therefore not only requiring you to buy more points but also PAY MORE PER POINT. It's a double devaluation.

And you are right, DVC can change the number of points at a resort from week to week each year but the TOTAL points per year for a given resort can never change. The variability from year to year is to account for things like holidays, which don't land on the same day or week each year. The end result is the same: no change in points for that resort over time. Otherwise, point systems would just fall apart from devaluation.

Katherine

 

[dioxide45]

It also sounded like they were considering only selling points at new resorts. So that would mean if you wanted to get in to them you would either have to buy there or buy in to the points program. New resorts then would effectivly be unavailable to weeks owners.

 

[Pit]

New resorts then would effectivly be unavailable to weeks owners.

I think the new resorts would still be available through II, as there will always be some who want to exchange outside the Marriott system.

 

[GaryDouglas]

13 Month Rule

Reservation Window - The reservation window is the period during which you are able to make a reservation for varying lengths of stay. Currently you can book either 13 or 12 months before your arrival date depending on the number of weeks you own. Please assume at the time of reservation you have enough Vacation Points available to make that reservation. Marriott Vacation Club is considering setting the reservation window as follows:

· Reservations can be made 12 months before date of occupancy, with a requirement to make reservations of 7 nights or more ​

· At 6 months before date of occupancy reservations can be booked for 3 nights or more ​

· At 1 month before date of occupancy, reservations can be booked in nightly increments ​

Is it safe to assume they are only talking about the new program here and are not considering getting rid of the current 13 month rule?

 

[dioxide45]

Is it safe to assume they are only talking about the new program here and are not considering getting rid of the current 13 month rule?

Nothing is safe to assume.

 

[lll1929]

I just completed the over the phone informational presentation (Just like the 90 min presentation, but the gift is a $25 Visa giftcard).

I asked the rep about the new point survey. He initially acted as if he was unaware of the pgm, but when I mentioned the lack of flexchange, he chimed right in.

According to Matt, the rep, the new point system would still allow for flexchange trade thru II. Basically, all weeks that are not reserved via pts using the internal Marriott pgm, will be dumped into II for flexchange. Makes sense.

According to Matt, that is what is done today with weeks that are not reserved by owners.

I can't say that I would invest in the new pt pgm when I know the excess inventory can be booked in II. I see no benefit in the proposed internal points system. I will stick with the current process.

 

[IngridN]

Have checked both my and DH's e-mail accounts and no survey from Marriott. Considering that we own 4, all purchased through Marriott, you'd think they would solicit our opinion, but no such luck...would have told them what they could do with the new program as this one works just fine for our needs.

Ingrid

 

[sandesurf]

Have checked both my and DH's e-mail accounts and no survey from Marriott. Considering that we own 4, all purchased through Marriott, you'd think they would solicit our opinion, but no such luck...would have told them what they could do with the new program as this one works just fine for our needs.

Ingrid

FYI, our surveys (2, 1 each), were in an e-mail account I rarely use. I figured out that this is the e-mail address I used for our Marriott Visas. (We have two accounts, with two separate Marriott Reward acccounts.)

 

[IngridN]

FYI, our surveys (2, 1 each), were in an e-mail account I rarely use. I figured out that this is the e-mail address I used for our Marriott Visas. (We have two accounts, with two separate Marriott Reward acccounts.)

I checked all of our accounts including the spam buckets...no survey.

 

[pwrshift]

I didn't get the points survey at all ... maybe it's because I don't have the Marriott VISA card in Canada as it didn't payout like the US one did.

Brian

 

[aka Julie]

I hava a Marriott Visa credit card and own 3 weeks and didn't get the survey.

 

[SueDonJ]

I hava a Marriott Visa credit card and own 3 weeks and didn't get the survey.

Same here, and we only use one email address for everything under the sun.

Honestly, my head hurts reading through all of this! I think I'll do what is usual for me - keep on reading and re-reading what all of you write and then read some more when/if Marriott announces a change, so that we can take full advantage of our timeshare use. TUG has been so helpful in that regard - I really can't say how much I appreciate what you all offer here.

A couple things I'm thinking about. Whatever system is in place, priority should be given to home resort/season bookings, and I'd like to see some continuation of the multi-week booking advantage. I'm not sure where I fall on the "should resale v. developer prices figure in the resort point values?" thing, but I'd like Marriott to somehow give an advantage to developer-bought owners. I know that makes me a bad guy, but we bought developer (even after reading TUG) specifically to hedge against any resale devaluation that Marriott might impose. They've devalued developer sales with the recent points changes, right? Well, now it's time for resale sales to take a hit.

Susan

 

[dioxide45]

Same here, and we only use one email address for everything under the sun.

Honestly, my head hurts reading through all of this! I think I'll do what is usual for me - keep on reading and re-reading what all of you write and then read some more when/if Marriott announces a change, so that we can take full advantage of our timeshare use. TUG has been so helpful in that regard - I really can't say how much I appreciate what you all offer here.

A couple things I'm thinking about. Whatever system is in place, priority should be given to home resort/season bookings, and I'd like to see some continuation of the multi-week booking advantage. I'm not sure where I fall on the "should resale v. developer prices figure in the resort point values?" thing, but I'd like Marriott to somehow give an advantage to developer-bought owners. I know that makes me a bad guy, but we bought developer (even after reading TUG) specifically to hedge against any resale devaluation that Marriott might impose. They've devalued developer sales with the recent points changes, right? Well, now it's time for resale sales to take a hit.

Susan

Remember that for every resale purchase there had to be at least one developer purchase. So Marriott made their money. Also for each time Marriott devalues developer or resale weeks they hurt the resale prices of your developer purchased week. If you ever need to resell your week you will wish Marriott treated all weeks the same otherwise you may be lucky to get $1 for your developer purchased week.

 

[davidvel]

Marriott has to treat all weeks (resale vs. direct) the same because the HOA has to under the CCRS and TS declaration, and Marriott simply manages the process for the respective HOAs.

Sure they can "add" perks for people who bought from them (trade for points) if they want, but the core rights to reserve, occupy/use/rent can't be changed by Marriott. In fact, United Airlines could give you miles for your week if they (and you) wanted to.

The points trade has nothing to do with your rights in your property--it is just a contract between you and Marriott (appartently a contract that Marriott has no obligations under according to all the posts out there.)

 

[SueDonJ]

Remember that for every resale purchase there had to be at least one developer purchase. So Marriott made their money.

I'm not looking at it from Marriott's perspective, though; I'm looking at it as a loyal customer of Marriott. Even if that's not how they look at it!

Also for each time Marriott devalues developer or resale weeks they hurt the resale prices of your developer purchased week.

Isn't it true that each time Marriott devalues any weeks, they hurt the resale prices across the board? Sure, developer weeks will always take a bigger hit, but all of them take some kind of hit.

If you ever need to resell your week you will wish Marriott treated all weeks the same otherwise you may be lucky to get $1 for your developer purchased week.

Why would a developer-purchased week ever sell for less than a resale-purchased? I understand that it wouldn't return more, but less?

Anyway, if resale value was a consideration when we were looking to purchase, we never would have bought! Timeshares aren't meant to be a real estate asset. They're an investment in vacationing, and we're certainly getting our value out of that. While we are, I want Marriott to give added value of some sort to their developer-purchased owners. That's all.

Susan

 

[SueDonJ]

Marriott has to treat all weeks (resale vs. direct) the same because the HOA has to under the CCRS and TS declaration, and Marriott simply manages the process for the respective HOAs.

Sure they can "add" perks for people who bought from them (trade for points) if they want, but the core rights to reserve, occupy/use/rent can't be changed by Marriott. In fact, United Airlines could give you miles for your week if they (and you) wanted to.

The points trade has nothing to do with your rights in your property--it is just a contract between you and Marriott (appartently a contract that Marriott has no obligations under according to all the posts out there.)

No, no, I'm not saying that developer-purchased weeks should have different occupy/use/rent booking options than resale-purchased. I mentioned those in relation to the points-based system that Marriott is proposing, and how I would still want to see home resort priorities and multi-week booking advantages in a new system. I don't know how Marriott could differentiate between developer and resale contracts in determining a point value for the proposed system; I don't think it can be done which is why I said, "I'm not sure where I fall..."

The perks for developer-purchased weeks could be as simple as a higher rung on the priority ladder for available units - i.e. all other things being equal, a direct owner's unit requests would be taken into consideration at check-in before a resale owner's. Or maybe something like flexchange discounts offered to direct owners a week before resale owners? Just ideas, in case Marriott is reading.

Susan

 

[timeos2]

They all start as developer and thus never change

Anyway, if resale value was a consideration when we were looking to purchase, we never would have bought! Timeshares aren't meant to be a real estate asset. They're an investment in vacationing, and we're certainly getting our value out of that. While we are, I want Marriott to give added value of some sort to their developer-purchased owners. That's all.

Susan

EVERY week is a developer purchased week and holds equal rights. That is may have been resold later to a different owner doesn't suddenly turn it into something else. Trying to make a distinction is foolhardy for Marriott & the owners. Once the week is sold it never changes in rights to use and the right to sell is included. There is no "added value" to be given as they are all developer purchased and all due the same value.

 

[Pens_Fan]

The right to trade for points is an added value given only to developer purchased units.

What is to stop Marriott from providing other offers to only developer purchased units?

 

[davidvel]

What is to stop Marriott from providing other offers to only developer purchased units?

Absolutely nothing, so long as it does not take away from other rights granted to resale purchasers. (ie. changing time to reserve your week, as was suggested by one poster as only "adding" to the rights of developer-purchase owners).