Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana and Marriott Ownerships

[jabberwocky]

Re: "In the blended system, there is no more Home Resort window for reservations". I'm not sure what that means. Today, as a Vistana owner, I can make a Home Resort reservation at 12 months. It seems that they must preserve the Home Resort priority for those owners. Maybe Marriott owners and Vistana options (not Home Resort) can only reserve Vistana properties at 8 months out? That's the way it is today for Star Options reservations at properties other than your Home Resort.

The only way your Vistana week is in the “blended system” is if you elect it for points in the prior year. If you don’t elect then it is not in the blended system and you can book your home resort week. So there may be a bit of truth in that statement.

 

[jabberwocky]

Wait, when you say hand over do you turn that ownership over to Marriott permanently and replace it with a points ownership? That's the only way having to pay maintenance fees to Marriott would make sense. What's been discussed through many sales presentations detailed on TUG instead is enrolling the ownership with Marriott and then deciding each year if you want to convert it into points. There's been no discussion that a Vistana owner would pay Marriott maintenance fees whenever they converted to DC points in a given year instead of paying maintenance fees to Vistana. This would change the whole equation for many people and I suspect permanently have them say no way!

I think @dewco means that if you were to trade-in or sell your week and buy the equivalent points the MF would be more. If you elect for points it is for the following year only - and you can use your week as normal in the future.

 

[kozykritter]

I think @dewco means that if you were to trade-in or sell your week and buy the equivalent points the MF would be more. If you elect for points it is for the following year only - and you can use your week as normal in the future.

Probably so but always like to get clarification straight from the source of the post in case the salesperson told them something completely different than what we already think is true!

 

[dewco]

Wait, when you say hand over do you turn that ownership over to Marriott permanently and replace it with a points ownership? That's the only way having to pay maintenance fees to Marriott would make sense. What's been discussed through many sales presentations detailed on TUG instead is enrolling the ownership with Marriott and then deciding each year if you want to convert it into points. There's been no discussion that a Vistana owner would pay Marriott maintenance fees whenever they converted to DC points in a given year instead of paying maintenance fees to Vistana. This would change the whole equation for many people and I suspect permanently have them say no way!

At this presentation, we didn’t discuss our Westin ownership so there wasn’t a specific discussion about how these ownerships would/could work in the blended system. Maybe I made assumptions from reading hundreds of speculative posts that the goal for Marriott is to convert the Westin & Sheraton (Vistana) ownerships to Marriott DC points. I do understand that one can’t be forced to do anything. Based on what was presented at the presentation, I don’t think it would make sense to pay the Marriott maintenance fees instead of the Vistana fees, whether it be a onetime exchange or a permanent transfer. My takeaway from the posts is that what fee is to be paid is unknown at this time.

 

[SueDonJ]

At this presentation, we didn’t discuss our Westin ownership so there wasn’t a specific discussion about how these ownerships would/could work in the blended system. Maybe I made assumptions from reading hundreds of speculative posts that the goal for Marriott is to convert the Westin & Sheraton (Vistana) ownerships to Marriott DC points. I do understand that one can’t be forced to do anything. Based on what was presented at the presentation, I don’t think it would make sense to pay the Marriott maintenance fees instead of the Vistana fees, whether it be a onetime exchange or a permanent transfer. My takeaway from the posts is that what fee is to be paid is unknown at this time.

I think something got lost in translation during your presentation.

Enrolling an eligible Marriott Week in the Destination Club is never a permanent exchange of the Week for DC Points, and, the only Marriott owners who pay the per-point MF's are those who purchase Destination Club Trust Points. All like Weeks intervals (same resort/unit size/season) pay the same MF's regardless of whether a Week is enrolled or not and regardless of whether an enrolled Week is elected for DC Points or not. The only difference is that owners of DC-enrolled Weeks pay an additional annual Club Dues fee, which the amount varies based on the status tiers and is separately invoiced from the Weeks MF's. (This annual fee must be paid regardless of whether the enrolled Weeks are elected for points; non-payment of the Club Dues will result in the Week being unenrolled.)

I agree with your takeaway that it's unknown what the equivalent "Club Dues" fee will be for Vistana ownerships that are eligible for enrollment (meaning they can be elected for DC Points on an annual basis.) I sort of remember DeniseM's contact saying that the VSN fees already being charged will be raised to levels similar to Marriott's Club Dues fees?

 

[dewco]

I think something got lost in translation during your presentation.

Enrolling an eligible Marriott Week in the Destination Club is never a permanent exchange of the Week for DC Points, and, the only Marriott owners who pay the per-point MF's are those who purchase Destination Club Trust Points. All like Weeks intervals (same resort/unit size/season) pay the same MF's regardless of whether a Week is enrolled or not and regardless of whether an enrolled Week is elected for DC Points or not. The only difference is that owners of DC-enrolled Weeks pay an additional annual Club Dues fee, which the amount varies based on the status tiers and is separately invoiced from the Weeks MF's. (This annual fee must be paid regardless of whether the enrolled Weeks are elected for points; non-payment of the Club Dues will result in the Week being unenrolled.)

I agree with your takeaway that it's unknown what the equivalent "Club Dues" fee will be for Vistana ownerships that are eligible for enrollment (meaning they can be elected for DC Points on an annual basis.) I sort of remember DeniseM's contact saying that the VSN fees already being charged will be raised to levels similar to Marriott's Club Dues fees?

I never said I own any Marriott, only Westin, so I’m not familiar with how the various Marriott systems work. I also mentioned that I still have lots to learn & understand how the combined programs will work together.

 

[SueDonJ]

I never said I own any Marriott, only Westin, so I’m not familiar with how the various Marriott systems work. I also mentioned that I still have lots to learn & understand how the combined programs will work together.

I figured that you didn't own Marriott so that's why I explained how Marriott works. Please understand, I'm not faulting you for your sales rep's obvious attempt to leave you confused about all this.

 

[VacationForever]

I've owned Vistana since 1996 and had RCI set up. I have never stayed at where I own. I called each year to deposit into the RCI system for exchange. Subsequently I moved to RCI Points and 76,000 points just showed up each year without calling. I left RCI in 2008 and moved to II. Because I own a fixed/float week, the week was automatcally booked for me 18 months out and I always have to call to cancel. But after cancelling, I could use the Vistana online system to reserve or deposit into II.

 

[TravelTime]

Has anyone heard whether MVC DC points owners will be able to book all the combined resorts at 13 months? Or do you think they will have different rules specifically for booking the Vistana resorts since Vistana currently only allows home resort bookings at 12 months and SO bookings at 8 months?

In the current MVC points system, is there any precedent for not allowing certain resorts to be booked at 13 months?

It would seem to me it would be a strange way to sell a new combined system with saying you can only book Marriott-branded resorts at 13 months and Westin/Sheraton branded resorts at 12 or 8 months.

 

[Sicnarf]

Since you need to deposit to DC by September the year before your use year, then anyone in DC should be able to book the deposited unit 13 months ahead (i.e., October the following year).

 

[dioxide45]

Has anyone heard whether MVC DC points owners will be able to book all the combined resorts at 13 months? Or do you think they will have different rules specifically for booking the Vistana resorts since Vistana currently only allows home resort bookings at 12 months and SO bookings at 8 months?

In the current MVC points system, is there any precedent for not allowing certain resorts to be booked at 13 months?

It would seem to me it would be a strange way to sell a new combined system with saying you can only book Marriott-branded resorts at 13 months and Westin/Sheraton branded resorts at 12 or 8 months.

The only precedent that exists in DC is for The Ritz-Carlton CLub for Members and Select Members where they can't book until 6 months in advance (Vail is an exception)

Members and Select Members may not access Luxury Property, other than Accommodations located in The Ritz-Carlton Club, Vail, until six (6) months prior to the first day of a given unreserved Use Period.

I would fully expect Vistana properties to have the same booking windows as Marriott resorts. These of course will be booking windows, there might not be availability. Som resorts have rules in the CC&Rs that owners can't reserve more than 12 months in advance. That same rule should apply to the trusts and exchange company. So while you can theoretically book 13 months out, practically it is impossible. Some resorts can reserve 18 months in advance or actually automatically reserve 18 months out. The MVC Exchange Company could take advantage of that and make or keep those reservations to offer up for DC members. The trusts and MVC Exchange Company would have the same reservation rights as a regular owner.

 

[Red elephant]

From what I was explained at a recent presentation once Vistana owners convert their week to DC points then it belongs in that network program and those rules apply not VSN.

 

[dioxide45]

From what I was explained at a recent presentation once Vistana owners convert their week to DC points then it belongs in that network program and those rules apply not VSN.

True, VSN rules would not apply, but underlying deeded reservation rules should still apply.

 

[TravelTime]

For me, there are a couple of main advantages to enrolling a Vistana week and electing DPs. The biggie to me is being able to book at 13 months and actually getting any resort I want in the room size and view type I want. I can’t get this now using SOs at 8 months. So I hope MVC will keep this benefit for DPs.

 

[SueDonJ]

For me, there are a couple of main advantages to enrolling a Vistana week and electing DPs. The biggie to me is being able to book at 13 months and actually getting any resort I want in the room size and view type I want. I can’t get this now using SOs at 8 months. So I hope MVC will keep this benefit for DPs.

It's important to remember that the Destination Club functions "subject to availability" in the same way that any other floating timeshare system functions. Just because you may be eligible for certain reservation windows does not at all mean that what you want to book will be available to book as soon as any windows open. Inventory in the DC Exchange Company is as affected by high demand as inventory in any other exchange company.

As for whether inventory that isn't available to be booked by owners until a certain point can be made available before that point to DC members, I wouldn't even try to guess. We still don't know if the DC integration for Vistana owners will be the same as it is for Marriott owners/members, i.e. as an overlay separate from every other usage option, or (as suspected by some Vistana members) as a component of VSN membership. The setup matters because all of the stipulations in the governing docs of the DC and of the owners' existing applicable/affected components will have to legally coexist.

 

[bazzap]

Since you need to deposit to DC by September the year before your use year, then anyone in DC should be able to book the deposited unit 13 months ahead (i.e., October the following year).

The deadline for electing enrolled weeks for DC points varies by Owner level, ours is by end October the year before use year.

 

[korndoc]

I am at Marriott Maui Beach Club and am scheduled for a presentation tomorrow (Tuesday). As far as I can tell from this long series of posts, Marriott has yet to announce anything official regarding the combination of Vistana and MVC. Is that true?
I sat through a presentation in January and was told the rollout would be here by June and I needed to purchase 1000 trust points to take advantage of the combined program. But a quick check led to Tuggers advising me to not do anything until we see an official statement from Marriott. So I just want to be sure that after these 4 months there is still nothing official and therefore I should ignore anything suggested by the salesperson Tuesday. (Interestingly, that salesperson actually allowed me to leave the presentation and get back to him later in the day with the same offers still available, giving me the opportunity to write to TUG and get responses! That’s never happened to me before and he will probably never allow that again since I turned him down.)
Thanks,
Jeff

 

[dougp26364]

Nothing new. NEVER buy on a promise. The only reasonable reason to buy more points is because you need more points to achieve your vacation goals based on the program rules at the time you buy. Ther has been NOTHING put in writing that says current owners need to “buy more points” to be included in any merged program. To the contrary, recent owner updates seem to indicate all owners will have access to all resort weeks deposited into the points program without making an additional purchase. Likewise ILG owners will have access to the points program simply by electing to deposit their weeks into the DC, much like MVW owners do when depositing their deeded weeks into the DC.. NO ADDITIONAL PURCHASE REQUIRED.

Of course we won’t know for certain until the program is officially rolled out.

 

[korndoc]

Thanks. After my experience in January and strong TUG advice, I was going to today’s meeting knowing not to add any points. But I wanted to be sure I didn’t miss anything official from Marriott. Glad to learn I haven’t.
Really funny how in March we were all expecting the Marriott announcement. When it didn’t come out on a particular Monday the word was to expect it NEXT Monday. Would have been nice to have known WHICH Monday

 

[JIMinNC]

Thanks. After my experience in January and strong TUG advice, I was going to today’s meeting knowing not to add any points. But I wanted to be sure I didn’t miss anything official from Marriott. Glad to learn I haven’t.
Really funny how in March we were all expecting the Marriott announcement. When it didn’t come out on a particular Monday the word was to expect it NEXT Monday. Would have been nice to have known WHICH Monday

Actually, they DID roll out the new program in late March in what has been called a "soft launch", but at this point it's only through the sales offices. The sales teams have been given information and are passing that info on to owners during sales presentations. But since Sales often "embellishes" the facts in order to make a sale, it's still hard to distinguish what facts the sales people are accurately communicating and what is just sales spin. For what it's worth, here is what the Marriott Vacations Worldwide CEO said in the quarterly earnings call last week:

"At the end of March, we began pre-marketing our new combined product offering at our Marriott, Westin, and Sheraton sales centers, and we expect to complete the development of the related technology and officially launch the product later this summer."

Until the actual program rules are published in updated program terms and conditions documentation, it will be hard to know exactly what the accurate details are. That should come in a few months.

 

[rthib]

And even is you want trust points buy resale. Only reason to buy direct is to get a hybrid deal (points and enrolled week) or to enroll multiple resale weeks

 

[korndoc]

OK, went to the sales meeting today. As Doug said, owners will have access to Vistana properties by simply going online like we do now for Marriott properties with no reason to spend more. He even showed me the new Marriott website that lists Marriott, Sheraton and Westin properties.
But then he told me I had to be a hybrid owner or VIPowner otherwise I will NOT be able to access the Vistana properties! That would require me to own 4000 points. With my Desert Springs Villas I own only 3225points.
In January Tuggers told me not to buy anything until we see what is officially required. At that time the minimum they would sell was 1000 points which would make me a VIP. Today they told me the minimum they would sell is 1500 points, TUG folk said in January even if I do need to be a hybrid or VIP, I could buy points at a third of the $15-16 they wanted.
Now RTHIB says:

Only reason to buy direct is to get a hybrid deal (points and enrolled week)

So now I am confused. Can I become a Hybrid or VIP owner by buying on the 2nd hand market or must I buy direct from Marriott? And if I need to buy from Marriott I now have to buy 50% more points than I needed in January!
Signed: Frustrated and confused in Maui. (But SO RELAXED!)
Thanks for your replies

 

[dioxide45]

Don't buy anything more until we see what is officially announced (outside a sales presentation) and see if what you own now can actually book Vistana properties. Hybrid owner and VIP are not official terms, they only seem to come out of the sales team.

 

[rthib]

Now RTHIB says:

So now I am confused. Can I become a Hybrid or VIP owner by buying on the 2nd hand market or must I buy direct from Marriott? And if I need to buy from Marriott I now have to buy 50% more points than I needed in January!
Signed: Frustrated and confused in Maui. (But SO RELAXED!)
Thanks for your replies

Not a hybrid owner but a hybrid package. If you wanted to get up next level it is usually about same as secondary market to buy a hybrid pack which a week and point which usually equals out to around $7/pt but with lower MF since the week should have lower per point MF. But only useful if you want a large number of points.

If you just want 1000 points, best place to buy is resale. Cheaper and after you pay the fee (referred to by tuggers as junk fee) the points are same as Marriott points just much, much cheaper.

 

[kozykritter]

Hybrid owner could refer to owning both MVC and Vistana. It's how they pitched it to me at two different MVC presentations in 2019 as a way to guarantee access to the combined program. Since they don't sell Vistana ownership, they pitched you DC points to take the Elite (VIP) route instead, 4000 getting you to Select level. We have no independent confirmation from Marriott yet whether what they told you is true, of course.