Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana and Marriott Ownerships

[jwalk03]

I would think any new property moving forward now would have a lot less legal baggage and could quickly be a part of the new universally accessed point product.

When was the last time Vistana added a new property? I assume you are correct, but I wonder if we will ever see another new Vistana property. New timeshare properties don't seem to be a priority these days and I would think any they add would likely be in the correct Marriott Vacation Club product vs the Sheraton or Westin brands?

 

[dansimms]

When was the last time Vistana added a new property? I assume you are correct, but I wonder if we will ever see another new Vistana property. New timeshare properties don't seem to be a priority these days and I would think any they add would likely be in the correct Marriott Vacation Club product vs the Sheraton or Westin brands?

It doesn’t matter at this point in my opinion. Let’s say a Pulse location is added in Charleston , Nashville or Chicago. It’s one bigger happy family now and would fall into this new universal bucket in my opinion.

 

[dioxide45]

When was the last time Vistana added a new property? I assume you are correct, but I wonder if we will ever see another new Vistana property. New timeshare properties don't seem to be a priority these days and I would think any they add would likely be in the correct Marriott Vacation Club product vs the Sheraton or Westin brands?

The last new Vistana property was the Sheraton Kauai. Pretty much a hotel conversion. It looks like all of the inventory from there went into Sheraton Flex trust. Before that it was The Westin Los Cabos. Vistana still owns the hotel at The Westin Cancun and one in Puerto Vallarta. Westin Aventuras owners can book The Westin Cancun at 12 months using HomeOptions, it becomes available to everyone else at 8 months. That said, it is still not technically in Westin Aventuras. Only The Westin Lagunamar and The Westin Los Cabos are in Aventuras. I doubt they will ever convert Puerto Vallarta to timeshare. Perhaps they will find a buyer to take on that property and have it managed by Marriott International.

 

[dioxide45]

It doesn’t matter at this point in my opinion. Let’s say a Pulse location is added in Charleston , Nashville or Chicago. It’s one bigger happy family now and would fall into this new universal bucket in my opinion.

They will simply add any new properties to the DC Trust as they did with all the previous new MVC properties such as South Beach, Mayflower, San Diego, San Francisco and perhaps some others I missed. They will sell them as DC points. It really isn't a universal bucket because Westin and Sheraton Flex along with Westin Aventuras will continue to just co-exist.

 

[dansimms]

Why

They will simply add any new properties to the DC Trust as they did with all the previous new MVC properties such as South Beach, Mayflower, San Diego, San Francisco and perhaps some others I missed. They will sell them as DC points. It really isn't a universal bucket because Westin and Sheraton Flex along with Westin Aventuras will continue to just co-exist.
[/QUOTE
Why wouldn’t they brand a new location in a general way that could be tied to all the sub- brands. That is how I would like to see it.

 

[Dean]

Why

I would assume they want to move the product toward MVC points and therefore anything new would be expected to be in the MVC trust. Ultimately I'm sure they'd like integrate all products into that bucket as much as legally possible but monetizing the move along the way as well.

 

[dioxide45]

Why wouldn’t they brand a new location in a general way that could be tied to all the sub- brands. That is how I would like to see it.

It has been said that Vistana will stop selling Flex products in the near future and move toward selling DC points. It was also explained a while ago that the agreement between Vistana and Marriott International did not allow for new resorts to be built or added beyond the resorts already in the network or that were planned (Sheraton Kauai, Puerto Vallarta). The agreement between Marriott Vacation Club and Marriott International did permit for new resorts to license the Marriott name. The way all the sub brands come together is through the MVC Exchange Company, by having that it doesn't really matter where the inventory actually goes. In fact they are selling Costa Rica as weeks and if you want to use DC points it is facilitated through VC Exchange Company.

All of that said, I doubt we will ever see a new Sheraton or Westin property built (with the possible exception of a Sheraton in Puerto Vallarta). Any new resorts will likely all be Marriott Vacation Club.

 

[jabberwocky]

I agree that if we believe MVW's management that their end point is a single points product, they will either have to begin conveying Westin/Sheraton intervals to the DC Trust or create a new trust(s) for the Westin/Sheraton intervals that are monetized in DC points rather than FlexOptions. At some point, one would think that to create a single product to sell, they must stop conveying intervals to trusts that are monetized in FlexOptions. I don't know anything about the legalities of these trusts, so I have no idea whether they can merge everything under one DC trust or will need to have multiple trusts that are all monetized in DC Points, but it would seem that their goal of a single points product must, by definition, signal the eventual demise of the FlexTrusts that are monetized in a dead-end product - i.e. FlexOptions.

I'm wondering if a future sales pitch to Flex owners will be to trade their Flex contract for DC points. I think this would be an attractive alternative. MVC could then legally move an equivalent amount of deeds out of the Flex trust into the DC trust. IIRC, the Flex trust terms allow Vistana to add/remove properties as they see fit (of course ensuring there are enough weeks to cover the issued points). One would think this would be pretty simple and a good driver of revenue.

 

[kozykritter]

I'm wondering if a future sales pitch to Flex owners will be to trade their Flex contract for DC points. I think this would be an attractive alternative. MVC could then legally move an equivalent amount of deeds out of the Flex trust into the DC trust. IIRC, the Flex trust terms allow Vistana to add/remove properties as they see fit (of course ensuring there are enough weeks to cover the issued points). One would think this would be pretty simple and a good driver of revenue.

If MVC doesn't already have a step-by-step long-term strategy mapped out pertaining to this consolidation, they should hire some TUGers to create them because you all come up with some great visions here!

 

[jabberwocky]

If MVC doesn't already have a step-by-step long-term strategy mapped out pertaining to this consolidation, they should hire some TUGers to create them because you all come up with some great visions here!

Lol. I’m available for a reasonable fee!

 

[dioxide45]

If MVC doesn't already have a step-by-step long-term strategy mapped out pertaining to this consolidation, they should hire some TUGers to create them because you all come up with some great visions here!

Given all the things that they seem to have overlooked with this soft rollout, they have a lot more work to do.

 

[Dean]

I was talking to my contact yesterday. He says booking starts 1 June for all MVC members with points but he wasn't completely sure what the lead time would have to be. He'd previously said that for 2023 and beyond but that didn't come up yesterday. He is being told that Hyatt is being actively worked on but there has been no movement in integrating Hyatt. The 2 properties for Vistana/Westin that are not being included now are expected to be by 2024. All who have status with Vistana/Westin will have status with MVC but he didn't have the specific on how that would look like exactly. He could not provide actual points requirements but said it should be comparable to what the MVC options are in general. I did ask about changes with the MVC Owner Benefit levels and he said he hasn't heard anything and feels it's just sales speak. He did say he was surprised MVC had not tried to monetize the integration for the Vistana/Westin owners as am I. So not really much information but good to hear from someone I have trust in.

 

[kozykritter]

He did say he was surprised MVC had not tried to monetize the integration for the Vistana/Westin owners as am I.

Vistana already has an internal exchange system, pure point ownership products and access to MVC properties through II. The vast majority of its owners are very happy with what they already have and have the standard human aversion to things changing so charging them a fee to access MVC directly could likely be the tipping point for them to say no way, leaving MVC with little Vistana inventory for its members to book.

If they exclude unqualified Vistana resale weeks from being able to enroll in MVC as is being speculated right now, then they have a chance to make $$$ by selling those people ownership to requalify or charging them a significant enrollment fee to access MVC. Also there will be opportunity to sell Vistana owners points once they start using the MVC system and wanting more, and vice versa for MVC owners

 

[Dean]

Vistana already has an internal exchange system, pure point ownership products and access to MVC properties through II. The vast majority of its owners are very happy with what they already have and have the standard human aversion to things changing so charging them a fee to access MVC directly could likely be the tipping point for them to say no way, leaving MVC with little Vistana inventory for its members to book.

If they exclude unqualified Vistana resale weeks from being able to enroll in MVC as is being speculated right now, then they have a chance to make $$$ by selling those people ownership to requalify or charging them a significant enrollment fee to access MVC. Also there will be opportunity to sell Vistana owners points once they start using the MVC system and wanting more, and vice versa for MVC owners

Sales can always find a way to spin things to make you think you need or want something you don't need. Realize that few owners are as informed and aware as those on TUG. It sounds like they are working on an enrollment option but nothing has been formalized as of yet from what I can gather. Everyone currently has the same options they have had and likely will continue to have (at least for now), they will just have more options now. However, there may be less inventory and more competition going forward. The only things that are constant with timeshares is that they change and usually not for the better for a large portion of currently owners.

 

[jmhpsu93]

Here is a pic from the new book …View attachment 51104

Wow - those are really out of whack with SO points charts for that resort.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I did the same thing. I added 1750 DPs to take us over the 15000 to 15050 and will have them added for the 2024 year, to keep my maintenance fee lower for 2023. I choose 42,500 Bonvoy Points to attend, applied for the Amex Card with the 100,000 Bonvoy Point Bonus and $300 annual account credit / 50,000 Bonvoy annual bonus certificate for the down payment which is part of 15 month no interest promo for new accounts. I will Finance with Marriott at 13.99% for 18 months to earn an extra 1750 DP bonus on top of the double bonus for buying now, 3500 DPs. Since there is no prepayment penalty on the loan, I will make a large pay down payment on it right away, but not wipe it out until after 18 months . Their funny math says all this lowered my blended cost down to about $7.13 per point . That is based on the 5250 total bonus DPs being valued at $2 per point , but I told them that I know I could just rent those points at leas then 75 cents each .In the back of my mind, I had wanted to consider getting my point balance above 15000 just in case more Chairman perks were coming at any time in the next few years, so we decided to do it . All in all, with the total Bonvoy add on of about 200,000 we felt buying from the developer was within reason in the manner that we did it. We also got $2000 off because we stayed at a different Marriott Hotel the week earlier (On 2, 35000 Annual vouchers earned from Chase Marriott Card). You get the $2000 off just by having a stay at any cost prior to your tour if it was within 7 days .

Too much math. You lost me!

 

[jwalk03]

The last new Vistana property was the Sheraton Kauai. Pretty much a hotel conversion. It looks like all of the inventory from there went into Sheraton Flex trust. Before that it was The Westin Los Cabos. Vistana still owns the hotel at The Westin Cancun and one in Puerto Vallarta. Westin Aventuras owners can book The Westin Cancun at 12 months using HomeOptions, it becomes available to everyone else at 8 months. That said, it is still not technically in Westin Aventuras. Only The Westin Lagunamar and The Westin Los Cabos are in Aventuras. I doubt they will ever convert Puerto Vallarta to timeshare. Perhaps they will find a buyer to take on that property and have it managed by Marriott International.

Whats the hang up on Puerto Vallarta that would stop them from converting it? I mean why would they want to own a hotel when their core business is timeshare.

 

[dioxide45]

Whats the hang up on Puerto Vallarta that would stop them from converting it? I mean why would they want to own a hotel when their core business is timeshare.

THat is a good question. They are probably simply looking at return on investment. Will it make them enough money to convert it to timeshare and sell the points off in Aventuras when in the end they will probably want to stop selling Aventuras in favor of selling DC points instead. Thus why I beleive they are actively trying to market the property to sell as a hotel.

 

[jwalk03]

THat is a good question. They are probably simply looking at return on investment. Will it make them enough money to convert it to timeshare and sell the points off in Aventuras when in the end they will probably want to stop selling Aventuras in favor of selling DC points instead. Thus why I beleive they are actively trying to market the property to sell as a hotel.

They wouldn't have to put it in Aventuras right? Could they just convert it and add it directly to the DC as a new resort?

 

[dansimms]

Too much math. You lost me!

Sorry. When you can get bonuses like this, buying from the developer can be defended. Although , not necessarily as inexpensive as you can get by buying resale.

 

[JIMinNC]

They wouldn't have to put it in Aventuras right? Could they just convert it and add it directly to the DC as a new resort?

As currently structured, the DC is limited to U.S. resorts. International locations in MVC still sell enrolled weeks that can trade in DC Points through the MVC Exchange..

 

[dioxide45]

They wouldn't have to put it in Aventuras right? Could they just convert it and add it directly to the DC as a new resort?

The only way they could really sell it as timeshare is to add it to Aventuras or sell it as weeks. They could setup some separate system that mimics Aventuras but based on DC point values instead of Vistana HomeOptions, but no need when they already have Aventuras. I don't really see them ever building this property out. It would be nice to have the additional option, but I suspect it won't happen. MVC for years owned a small plot of land beside Live Aqua in Cancun that they had planned to build a MVC property at. Crash happened and they decided to sell it off. It finally sold a few years ago.

 

[byeloe]

MVC for years owned a small plot of land beside Live Aqua in Cancun that they had planned to build a MVC property at. Crash happened and they decided to sell it off. It finally sold a few years ago.

I believe that it will be a RIU

 

[bazzap]

As currently structured, the DC is limited to U.S. resorts. International locations in MVC still sell enrolled weeks that can trade in DC Points through the MVC Exchange..

With the exception of Asia, where MVC only ever sold weeks at Phuket Beach Club (PBC) and stopped that a long time ago.
When they introduced the Asia Pacific (AP) points programme, they conveyed all remaining weeks inventory to this programme and have only sold points since then.
This remains a separate programme to DC, but the two do interwork now.
Those who do own eligible PBC weeks can enrol them in DC.

 

[jabberwocky]

I have a question for those who own post-2010 Marriott resale weeks and have attended sales presentations.

In general, does Marriott ever provide offers to trade in your existing week in exchange for a DP purchase?

From what I have read on TUG, it seems like they are sometimes willing to enroll your existing resale week if you either purchase additional DP or make a developer week purchase (Aruba seems to be a popular choice). But there is some speculation on the Vistana forum that they may want to take weeks to have people move directly into DP.

I'm skeptical and think while they may have some sort of conversion offer for the Flex programs, they likely don't want to hold too much inventory in the trust and would prefer to just enroll weeks via the selling of more DP.