Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana and Marriott Ownerships

[CPNY]

I guess timeshare salesmen should love me then. Since I want to go everywhere....

So, is WSJ the crown jewel of Vistana? If so, would probably add it to my list of places to go one day. If not, what is the crown jewel?

So I’ve never been to Hawaii but if I had to put the crown jewel on a vistana resort to visit I’d assume it would be the an OF room at WKORV based on the demand. WSJ isn’t the greatest resort. What makes it desirable is the island of St John imo. Compared to the built up islands everyone is used To, it has that unspoiled natural thing going for it. Along with some of the best beaches I’ve seen in the Caribbean. I think the reason why people are always talking about WSJ isn’t because they think it’s the crown jewel, I think it’s because it’s hard to get reservations in the VSN. Most owners go back year after year and then there are owners who can’t even get in due to availability issues. I’ve been Lucky enough to get reservations. I feel like everyone’s crown jewel will be different. My crown jewel is the crummy Harborside. I like the Atlantis enough to keep going back, and it’s super close with multiple direct flights.

there is no resort in Vistana that can compare to a Ritz Carlton, the service and experience is unparalleled. Of course I’m basing this on my experience of visiting timeshare resorts in the Marriott/Vistana eco system and my experiences of staying at Ritz Carlton hotels. I’d have to assume that the level of service you get at a Ritz Carlton hotel is going to be the same at the RC TS.

if you’re in the middle of the country you have a true advantage of experiencing everything so it’s no wonder why you want to go everywhere! Lucky you. I’m on the east coast so I gravitate toward the Caribbean and Florida for the most part.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Westin Riverside (Avon, CO) is quite nice too. We have enjoyed stays at MKO (my DH prefers it to Waikiki) and Grand Chateau (not a crown jewel but good quality with a view of the strip, IMHO we prefer Elara across the street for Vegas because it has a Vegas vibe (vs. standard TS decor), direct access to Miracle Mile, and larger pool with private owners deck and hot tub. But GC is certainly fine.)

 

[CPNY]

Westin Riverside (Avon, CO) is quite nice too. We have enjoyed stays at MKO (my DH prefers it to Waikiki), The rooms are quite spacious and kitchen well equipped for a group of 8.

I’d love to do a ski week in WRF one day

 

[Steve Fatula]

if you’re in the middle of the country you have a true advantage of experiencing everything so it’s no wonder why you want to go everywhere! Lucky you. I’m on the east coast so I gravitate toward the Caribbean and Florida for the most part.

Hah, country, continent is no obstacle. Been to Australia/Asia 4 times now. Can't be any further (or much) and will be going back for more as Australia is so large, there's at least 3 other areas I want to visit there. So, it doesn't matter to me where it is. There is no luck involved, I chose to live where I do. Not everyone has that choice so do feel somewhat fortunate. Still, even if I lived on coasts, wouldn't matter much to me as far as where I go.

Actually, I'd love to get into Key West. And I wouldn't mind that "crummy" Harborside. I was hoping for Key West in December actually, but program integration might be too late for that this year as far as inventory. Yes, there are other ways to get there, rent, pay, etc., but I don't like doing those.

As far a crown jewel in Marriott, I don't think there is any. If you asked 10 people you might get at least 5 answers. Many west coast folks always like Maui, I am meh on the island myself. But that is what makes travel so nice, there is something for everyone even people with stranger (er unique) tastes.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@CPNY FWIW we traded Bonvoy points to get in Riverside hotel side. Not SOs but the pools and spa are shared. Our studio had a corner view and a fireplace. It has direct gondola access and ski valet to BC. I expect the villas are even nicer. I expect that like WSJ and Westin Kaanapali OF people use or rent out what they own so availability in SOs or DP is like finding a unicorn.

 

[dioxide45]

Actually, I'd love to get into Key West. And I wouldn't mind that "crummy" Harborside. I was hoping for Key West in December actually, but program integration might be too late for that this year as far as inventory. Yes, there are other ways to get there, rent, pay, etc., but I don't like doing those.

Not sure what program integration will get you into Key West. Vistana doesn't have a property there. There is a Key West phase of Sheraton Vistana Villages, but that is in Orlando. The Welk/Hyatt intgration may help one get into Key West in the future if they currently only own Welk.

 

[Eric B]

Actually, I'd love to get into Key West. And I wouldn't mind that "crummy" Harborside. I was hoping for Key West in December actually, but program integration might be too late for that this year as far as inventory.

Don't forget that the Key West inventory in Vistana isn't in Key West - instead it's the name of a phase at Sheraton Vistana Villages in Orlando.

 

[Steve Fatula]

Not sure what program integration will get you into Key West. Vistana doesn't have a property there. There is a Key West phase of Sheraton Vistana Villages, but that is in Orlando. The Welk/Hyatt intgration may help one get into Key West in the future if they currently only own Welk.

Hah, though there was, when I look at your signature, knowing little to nothing about Vistana, I see SVV - Key West, and assumed there was one in Key West! So much for that thought.

 

[SueDonJ]

I have a question for anyone who's already been or will be going to a sales presentation where this soft launch is happening, either at a Marriott or Vistana sales office - which is why I'm duplicate-posting this in both forums -

If you were to choose to purchase now, prior to the official launch, are you able to immediately elect Destination Club Points from any owned intervals which are being enrolled* simultaneously with your new purchase?

*"Enrolled" meaning that your existing previously-owned intervals will be eligible for annual exchange to DC Points.

I'm trying to think through what the official launch might look like as far as availability metrics on the day of the official launch, specifically if Vistana intervals that are newly-eligible for DC Points election will be immediately available to all DC Exchange Company members on the launch date, due to DC Points elections having been processed immediately with the simultaneous purchase.

 

[DanCali]

I think picking Vistana's "crown jewel" is an east coast / west coast thing.

I lot of east coast people love WSJ. I'm not into 10-12 hours of travel to get to a beach.

I think Westin's Maui resorts (specifically the OF units) are the "crown jewel" on the west coast.

This is very true. We rarely get to Hawaii from Florida because it's two 6 hour flights + a 6 hour time difference in the summer. USVI is 90 minutes and Nassau (Atlantis) is 30 minutes... We have not stayed in the OF units at WKORV, but have been there in the past and love it too.

So I’ve never been to Hawaii but if I had to put the crown jewel on a vistana resort to visit I’d assume it would be the an OF room at WKORV based on the demand. WSJ isn’t the greatest resort. What makes it desirable is the island of St John imo. Compared to the built up islands everyone is used To, it has that unspoiled natural thing going for it. Along with some of the best beaches I’ve seen in the Caribbean. I think the reason why people are always talking about WSJ isn’t because they think it’s the crown jewel, I think it’s because it’s hard to get reservations in the VSN.

Reservations at WSJ have been (somewhat) easier to get since they changed the point chart for that resort. 176,700 Staroptions for a 2BR in peak season (vs. 148,100 originally) does price out quite a few owners and also maybe entices existing owners to exchange instead of use or rent their weeks, thus making more inventory available.

I wouldn't say Westin St. John "isn't the greatest resort" - it doesn't fall below the standards of the other Westins, IMO - but probably doesn't outshine others either. If anything at Vistana isn't "the greatest resort" it's probably Harborside. We do own 2 weeks there and like it as a destination with everything that comes along with it (Atlantis access, condo with full kitchen etc) but the units themselves are below even Sheraton standards. Despite occasional refurbishments, it just feels older and less well-kept inside the units than other resorts.

 

[CPNY]

This is very true. We rarely get to Hawaii from Florida because it's two 6 hour flights + a 6 hour time difference in the summer. USVI is 90 minutes and Nassau (Atlantis) is 30 minutes... We have not stayed in the OF units at WKORV, but have been there in the past and love it too.

If anything at Vistana isn't "the greatest resort" it's probably Harborside. We do own 2 weeks there and like it as a destination with everything that comes along with it (Atlantis access, condo with full kitchen etc) but the units themselves are below even Sheraton standards. Despite occasional refurbishments, it just feels older and less well-kept inside the units than other resorts.

Agreed, which is why it called it “crummy”. From a villa/resort standard, it is def lackluster. It was built with being at the Atlantis in mind. I guess that’s why they named it Harborside Resort at Atlantis. The draw is being at Atlantis. I can’t figure out for the life of me how the maint fees are so high yet they rooms are still the same old rooms (minus a few soft refurbishments).

 

[Steve Fatula]

I'd go there even if the rooms are subpar. Want to get back to the Bahamas and Would love to be at the Atlantis really. If I could ever get in being a Marriott owner.

 

[CPNY]

I'd go there even if the rooms are subpar. Want to get back to the Bahamas and Would love to be at the Atlantis really. If I could ever get in being a Marriott owner.

Right… that was my whole argument lol. I like going to the Atlantis. While the rooms are subpar, my SO get me quite a few of Them. The rooms are the rooms, they aren’t the highest end furnishings but I feel like it does the job. So many dining options at Atlantis that not having a full range in the kitchen isn’t a big miss. I think if you get a good room with a great view like I get, you’d enjoy it. I really enjoy a nice bottle of wine after a day at the beach while on the balcony waiting the yachts sail by.

 

[SandyPGravel]

Right… that was my whole argument lol. I like going to the Atlantis. While the rooms are subpar, my SO get me quite a few of Them. The rooms are the rooms, they aren’t the highest end furnishings but I feel like it does the job. So many dining options at Atlantis that not having a full range in the kitchen isn’t a big miss. I think if you get a good room with a great view like I get, you’d enjoy it. I really enjoy a nice bottle of wine after a day at the beach while on the balcony waiting the yachts sail by.

I agree HRA isn't up to par. Even SVV is better. But, we've been there 5 times, (our first trip we got married on the beach) and are returning this November for 9 days over Thanksgiving week for the basketball tournament.

If Marriott does take over I hope the bedding will get an upgrade. It would make the lackluster rooms so much more palatable if grills were available. I know, they want everyone in the restaurants.

Plus, beyond Atlantis, the views are spectacular, the SCUBA diving is amazing, and the people are incredibly kind.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

 

[CPNY]

I agree HRA isn't up to par. Even SVV is better. But, we've been there 5 times, (our first trip we got married on the beach) and are returning this November for 9 days over Thanksgiving week for the basketball tournament.

If Marriott does take over I hope the bedding will get an upgrade. It would make the lackluster rooms so much more palatable if grills were available. I know, they want everyone in the restaurants.

Plus, beyond Atlantis, the views are spectacular, the SCUBA diving is amazing, and the people are incredibly kind.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

All of the beds were just replaced 3 years ago. They were so firm when they were put in, I couldn’t sleep! I wish grills would be added but it won’t ever happen. If they did they would be charcoal grills but even then I highly doubt it will ever happen. I don’t think the Atlantis wants people cooking meals in their room. They have a lot of restaurants and they need people to sell overpriced subpar food to. It’s a shame because the food at baha mar is so much better.

I wish they would actually completely renovate the showers. They old tile still has that ugly blue and green scheme that was put in 25 years ago. Most of the upgrade money went into soft refurbishment, new roofs on some of the buildings, and upgraded heat exchange water heaters. There was nothing worse when the hot water ran out at around 6PM because everyone was showering in the buildings. Compared to other Marriott resorts, the Harborside is really lackluster, but, the Atlantis and paradise island is a huge draw. Also, the HRA pool isn’t so bad either. It’s clean, quiet, and pretty large. While there are minuses there are plenty of pluses for the Harborside.

the real interesting part is how this will fall into the combined program. Why the full year delay? To my knowledge Marriott owns a lot of inventory, I’m not sure why they couldn’t just dump it into The DC exchange. Actually let me rephrase, no one know who’s owns the unsold foreclosed inventory at Harborside. Is it Brookfield? MVW? The HOA?

 

[catharsis]

I have a question for anyone who's already been or will be going to a sales presentation where this soft launch is happening, either at a Marriott or Vistana sales office - which is why I'm duplicate-posting this in both forums -

If you were to choose to purchase now, prior to the official launch, are you able to immediately elect Destination Club Points from any owned intervals which are being enrolled* simultaneously with your new purchase?

*"Enrolled" meaning that your existing previously-owned intervals will be eligible for annual exchange to DC Points.

I'm trying to think through what the official launch might look like as far as availability metrics on the day of the official launch, specifically if Vistana intervals that are newly-eligible for DC Points election will be immediately available to all DC Exchange Company members on the launch date, due to DC Points elections having been processed immediately with the simultaneous purchase.

No, I can confirm that does not happen.

As someone who took the chance to enrol a resale SMV week with a (relatively compared to Marriott) small Westin Flex purchase since the soft launch, our newly 'authorised' weeks are eligible to enrol, but the only real change we have seen is the SO availability, nothing at all about MVC DC points.

We have not received anything like the MVC enrolment document set one receives when enrolling a legacy Marriott week in the DC either.

 

[dougp26364]

Opps

 

[dansimms]

At our last owner update (earlier this month) we were told that owners can/will continue to be grand-fathered (but only one level). If you want the higher benefits of a prospective level above CC, perhaps buying just what you need to get to Chairman Club now without being grandfathered (before the new level above CC is introduced - which we have heard from multiple sources over the past year is coming) is the way to go. If you are Chairman's Club based on actual ownership, you could set yourself up to be grandfathered to the next higher level when/if it is rolled out. We were grand-fathered CC at one time, but bought 1,500 resale points (and paid the fees) to get there on our own a few years back for just this reason ...

I did the same thing. I added 1750 DPs to take us over the 15000 to 15050 and will have them added for the 2024 year, to keep my maintenance fee lower for 2023. I choose 42,500 Bonvoy Points to attend, applied for the Amex Card with the 100,000 Bonvoy Point Bonus and $300 annual account credit / 50,000 Bonvoy annual bonus certificate for the down payment which is part of 15 month no interest promo for new accounts. I will Finance with Marriott at 13.99% for 18 months to earn an extra 1750 DP bonus on top of the double bonus for buying now, 3500 DPs. Since there is no prepayment penalty on the loan, I will make a large pay down payment on it right away, but not wipe it out until after 18 months . Their funny math says all this lowered my blended cost down to about $7.13 per point . That is based on the 5250 total bonus DPs being valued at $2 per point , but I told them that I know I could just rent those points at leas then 75 cents each .In the back of my mind, I had wanted to consider getting my point balance above 15000 just in case more Chairman perks were coming at any time in the next few years, so we decided to do it . All in all, with the total Bonvoy add on of about 200,000 we felt buying from the developer was within reason in the manner that we did it. We also got $2000 off because we stayed at a different Marriott Hotel the week earlier (On 2, 35000 Annual vouchers earned from Chase Marriott Card). You get the $2000 off just by having a stay at any cost prior to your tour if it was within 7 days .

 

[jwalk03]

Agreed, which is why it called it “crummy”. From a villa/resort standard, it is def lackluster. It was built with being at the Atlantis in mind. I guess that’s why they named it Harborside Resort at Atlantis. The draw is being at Atlantis. I can’t figure out for the life of me how the maint fees are so high yet they rooms are still the same old rooms (minus a few soft refurbishments).

I would assume part of the high MFs are some kind of annual payments to Atlantis for access right? I'm sure they are not providing it for nothing!

 

[jwalk03]

I guess timeshare salesmen should love me then. Since I want to go everywhere....

So, is WSJ the crown jewel of Vistana? If so, would probably add it to my list of places to go one day. If not, what is the crown jewel?

If you go by the TUG ratings- its a tie between Westin Kierland & Westin Princeville- both have a 9.24 TUG Review rating. The top rated Marriott is Phuket Beach Club at 9.58.

 

[VacationForever]

@Steve Fatula My absolute favorite Westin property is Westin Lagunamar in Cancun. We have been there 3 times but no longer feel safe to travel to Mexico anymore. Double level huge infinity pools in front of the lovely Carribean water and white sandy beach. Restaurant service in the hotel zone area was impeccable and warm. A distant second is Westin Kierland. The property is beautiful and well maintained. It is next to Kierland Commons and Scottsdale Quarters where there are many fine restaurants and shops.

We have been to Princeville and Westin Kaanapali and other than being in Hawaii, there is not much that we like about them. Princeville is up on the bluff and most rooms have no view. Even the ones with ocean view, are so-so because the ocean is far away. The grounds are beautiful and remind us of Marriott's Ko Olina. Service was alright at Princeville and we do like Kauai. Service at Westin Kanaapali was horrid. Their valet also damaged our rental car and we wasted a significant part of 5 days hanging around the room while we waited for a supervisor to acknowledge the issue and take responsibility. I posted a review of it on Tug. Can't pay us enough to return.

 

[CPNY]

I would assume part of the high MFs are some kind of annual payments to Atlantis for access right? I'm sure they are not providing it for nothing!

I spoke to a member of the HOA and when I asked why it had the highest fees in the network, he responded very condescendingly with “it costs a lot of money to operate a water park”. To which I replied “there is an Atlantis facilities fee that we pay for access to the grounds, I didn’t know we pay for the operation of the water park. If we are paying to maintain and operate the grounds of Atlantis, why do we then have to pay an access fee? Furthermore, since we are paying to maintain and operate, is the HOA taking part of any profits of Atlantis?” The Atlantis facilities fee isn’t the reason that the fees are very expensive.

 

[kds4]

I did the same thing. I added 1750 DPs to take us over the 15000 to 15050 and will have them added for the 2024 year, to keep my maintenance fee lower for 2023. I choose 42,500 Bonvoy Points to attend, applied for the Amex Card with the 100,000 Bonvoy Point Bonus and $300 annual account credit / 50,000 Bonvoy annual bonus certificate for the down payment which is part of 15 month no interest promo for new accounts. I will Finance with Marriott at 13.99% for 18 months to earn an extra 1750 DP bonus on top of the double bonus for buying now, 3500 DPs. Since there is no prepayment penalty on the loan, I will make a large pay down payment on it right away, but not wipe it out until after 18 months . Their funny math says all this lowered my blended cost down to about $7.13 per point . That is based on the 5250 total bonus DPs being valued at $2 per point , but I told them that I know I could just rent those points at leas then 75 cents each .In the back of my mind, I had wanted to consider getting my point balance above 15000 just in case more Chairman perks were coming at any time in the next few years, so we decided to do it . All in all, with the total Bonvoy add on of about 200,000 we felt buying from the developer was within reason in the manner that we did it. We also got $2000 off because we stayed at a different Marriott Hotel the week earlier (On 2, 35000 Annual vouchers earned from Chase Marriott Card). You get the $2000 off just by having a stay at any cost prior to your tour if it was within 7 days .

Glad you found an approach that works for you and gets you what you want.

 

[JIMinNC]

I agree that there is no need for MVW to consolidate all of the inventory under its umbrella to the DC Trust, because the separate and distinct DC Exchange Company serves perfectly as the conduit through which any and all inventory can be manipulated by MVW. There is nothing to say that they couldn't continue to sell MVW- and Vistana-branded intervals exactly the way they're being sold today, keeping the Vistana (and any other timeshare company) integration to only the DC Exchange Company.

The thing, though, is that during investor calls while talking about the integration they have repeatedly referenced a single points product. What remains to be seen is whether that will happen in the form of actual DC Trust conveyances of Vistana intervals or via another layer of integration combining DC Points with Flex (or any other Vistana points.)

I agree that if we believe MVW's management that their end point is a single points product, they will either have to begin conveying Westin/Sheraton intervals to the DC Trust or create a new trust(s) for the Westin/Sheraton intervals that are monetized in DC points rather than FlexOptions. At some point, one would think that to create a single product to sell, they must stop conveying intervals to trusts that are monetized in FlexOptions. I don't know anything about the legalities of these trusts, so I have no idea whether they can merge everything under one DC trust or will need to have multiple trusts that are all monetized in DC Points, but it would seem that their goal of a single points product must, by definition, signal the eventual demise of the FlexTrusts that are monetized in a dead-end product - i.e. FlexOptions.

 

[dansimms]

I agree that if we believe MVW's management that their end point is a single points product, they will either have to begin conveying Westin/Sheraton intervals to the DC Trust or create a new trust(s) for the Westin/Sheraton intervals that are monetized in DC points rather than FlexOptions. At some point, one would think that to create a single product to sell, they must stop conveying intervals to trusts that are monetized in FlexOptions. I don't know anything about the legalities of these trusts, so I have no idea whether they can merge everything under one DC trust or will need to have multiple trusts that are all monetized in DC Points, but it would seem that their goal of a single points product must, by definition, signal the eventual demise of the FlexTrusts that are monetized in a dead-end product - i.e. FlexOptions.

I would think any new property moving forward now would have a lot less legal baggage and could quickly be a part of the new universally accessed point product.