Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[banquopack]

You cannot ask when others may be listening. I tried onsite a few weeks back. It was a funny response. I was in a casual setting outside and leisurely walking past two sales and marketing employees. The first, more senior looking employee, immediately gave me a blank stare and denied any knowledge of anything changing. The other, younger guy, chimed in quickly too blurting out that yes, he knows about it. Then the older guy looked at the younger guy. He got that stare like, 'ooh, you are in trouble!'. Then, the younger guy quickly shut up and told me he can't say anything about it. :hysterical:

The bulk of the staff were only privy to rumors prior to the initial training meetings last week. I got most of my info the past two days, that is, post staff training.

Yep, I was there 3 days ago - they were nearing the end of their first week in training. The secluded alcove was best for info

The annoying guy at the start of my trip just went on about how he knew all about TUG and how misguided and off EVERYTHING was. I don't think so, buddy!

 

[taffy19]

In hanging out with a head dude on Maui last week, sounds like internal exchanges will be completely without II (even with your deeded week). Their sales center was changing over to the Ritz program, with a new Marriott Destinations banner hung near the front.

He also mentioned the new program will essentially translate to a 50-100% increase in maintenance fees if you change over to the points.

How can you not expect the maintenance fees going up when people can check in and out every day? They have to have more cleaning staff and it will cost you wear and tear to the condos.

The systeme will be more flexible because you can travel to a certain destination and stay in a Marriott condo or a hotel with the new point system.

Marriott recently received a reward for their super duper reservation system that is ready for global growth so the program must be very sophisticated and can handle all the challenges that we are wondering about, I hope.

 

[taffy19]

Are you concerned it's stealing posts from the other thread so Aruba may not be passed after all?

I'm actually in favor of a new thread once the Speculation period is over until then - catch Aruba if you can!

There were twoTUGgers who liked it to be in the old thread and that's fine with me.

I agree with you that we should start a brand new thread once the new program has been announced officially. I also noticed that the long thead had changed name but it sounds better than before.

 

[l2trade]

Yep, I was there 3 days ago - they were nearing the end of their first week in training. The secluded alcove was best for info

The annoying guy at the start of my trip just went on about how he knew all about TUG and how misguided and off EVERYTHING was. I don't think so, buddy!

Can you add to the details I've shared thus far?

BTW - I enjoy attending presentations to help train and educate the sales staff. It is my public service for the legions of short term tour sales guides working alongside the much smaller world of sales folks that actually can make a living at this. Quite often, I recognize folks from years past, and often remember their faces from tours at competitor brands. My wealth of knowledge sometimes pisses sales reps off. (BTW - I humbly admit that my wealth of knowledge is just child's play compared to many other TUGGERS here!) Other times the sales manager comes over and jokes about offering me a job. One time, the sales manager seemed really serious about it - he wanted to stop the presentation and hire me on the spot. Yeah right, like I'm gonna quit my high paying job to go work for peanuts lying and ripping people off. "Dude, this ain't no job interview!" is what I felt like saying. "This is an obsessive hobby and analytical research to learn how to best game the system for crying out loud!" Instead, I just smiled and thanked him for the offer. :rofl:

PS - There goes my future timeshare sales career. I just made myself unemployable. :hysterical:

 

[l2trade]

That was my understanding of what the program. I think the sales people will be happy to have a deed to pull out of their pocket when somebody knows how risky a point system can be (both for reservation sake and devaluation over time) and just wants to stay in 'x' location every year.

We walked away with different understandings on this point. I cannot believe with certainty that there won't be some exceptions at the retail 'ROFR/resale' purchase level. So, speculatively speaking, I am inclined to strongly agree with you. However, I was told again and again and again that Marriott will no longer sell anything but points from the TRUST. Time will tell how true that claim is and what exceptions, if any, exist.

 

[jlf58]

Think highly of yourself, don't you ? Many of the sales people make more than you.. I can assure you of that ..

Can you add to the details I've shared thus far?

BTW - I enjoy attending presentations to help train and educate the sales staff. It is my public service for the legions of short term tour sales guides working alongside the much smaller world of sales folks that actually can make a living at this. Quite often, I recognize folks from years past, and often remember their faces from tours at competitor brands. My wealth of knowledge sometimes pisses sales reps off. (BTW - I humbly admit that my wealth of knowledge is just child's play compared to many other TUGGERS here!) Other times the sales manager comes over and jokes about offering me a job. One time, the sales manager seemed really serious about it - he wanted to stop the presentation and hire me on the spot. Yeah right, like I'm gonna quit my high paying job to go work for peanuts lying and ripping people off. "Dude, this ain't no job interview!" is what I felt like saying. "This is an obsessive hobby and analytical research to learn how to best game the system for crying out loud!" Instead, I just smiled and thanked him for the offer. :rofl:

PS - There goes my future timeshare sales career. I just made myself unemployable. :hysterical:

 

[gravitar]

Think highly of yourself, don't you ? Many of the sales people make more than you.. I can assure you of that ..

wow

 

[RedDogSD]

Think highly of yourself, don't you ? Many of the sales people make more than you.. I can assure you of that ..

Uhhhh, I doubt it. How much do you think they make? I would be very surprised to see any of them that make much over $100,000/year and those guys are few and far between. I doubt there are any $250,000/year Timeshare salespeople.

 

[l2trade]

Think highly of yourself, don't you ? Many of the sales people make more than you.. I can assure you of that ..

This has nothing to do with my self esteem and/or lack thereof. Most people who try timeshare sales simply don't make it. I know I would fall in that camp. The sales people who make more than me have talents and do things I won't. I understand that. From reading other threads about timeshare sales, I believe my salaried non-sales job pays much more than all but the best sales reps who can actually last working in the business. I am sure I probably earn less money than many other TUGGERS here do too. I am not a doctor, lawyer, business owner, manager, etc... I am just a lowly peon with a job. When I say highly paid, I am comparing myself to salary ranges of employees I can most relate myself with. After all, saving money while taking many high quality vacations is my top priority with my timeshare ownership strategies. When choosing between flexibility and savings, I choose savings almost every time... Were I to take a job selling timeshares, I am sure I wouldn't last long. The pay is commission based. I am extremely analytical and would scare most would be retail buyers away from paying full price by sharing facts, details and the truth.

 

[DanCali]

Think highly of yourself, don't you ? Many of the sales people make more than you.. I can assure you of that ..

True or not, this post is somewhat obnoxious - and it's not the first one...
(I actually have a tough skin when it comes to these things, but I couldn't help noticing the trend)

Your comments are just plain dumb. keep it secret ? This is hardly a secret...

gee, thanks John. Didn't your Momma teach you if you don't have nothing nice to say about someone, don't say anything at all ?
If you want to trash people, what about those HOA people who rip people off yearly

Than your sources stink. I heard it straight for a person who used to work there. Oh yeah, that was me.

 

[GregT]

Think highly of yourself, don't you ? Many of the sales people make more than you.. I can assure you of that ..

Fletch, this is an odd post, and out of character for you? I'm sure it's lost in the electronic translation, but this reads more negatively than I'm sure was intended.

Let's just all be friends, speculate some more on the new system, and pass Aruba.

 

[taffy19]

I'm speechless with the rumors - I don't understand why Marriott needs a Trust for unsold weeks and ALL future units they build/acquire.

Can someone explain why they need a Trust for those Points?

Will they have totally different ownership rights over what we all have now?

P.S.
I feel like I've let you guys down - I tried to cook up every convoluted, crazy, insane, and just abnormal Points system I could think of.

I never even came close to what the rumor seems to be turning into - just plain weird; this sounds like Marriott incorporating timeshares into their hotel/motel business.

Can daily maid service be far behind?

I agree with you that Marriott is incorporating timeshares into their hotel/motel business as their very sophisticated reservation system can handle this and occupancy rate will improve with everything combined plus it gives the traveler more choice at what type of accommodation to stay en route to their destination.

Marriott wants a trust so that they have total control over the reservation system and the reason that they are going over to points is that all other major name brand developers have this system already. Most people like the idea of flexibility of shorter stays.

I am very glad that we have the choice to opt in and out of the point system every year but not lose the benefits of our original deed, if I understand this right.

I wished they had made the conversion fees lower for a one week owner like $295 plus $100 more for each additional week up to $695. The yearly fees will be the same just like it is with II.

With this new system a fixed platinum plus week definitely has advantages over a regular floating week as you know that you will always get this platinum plus week again if you decide to use your week and not use points to go somewhere else. The extra price was worth it after all. These re-sale weeks will definitely hold their value.

 

[jlf58]

really ? yet this was not ?
Some TUGers need to get a life. BTW many top salespeople make over $250,000

quit my high paying job to go work for peanuts lying and ripping people off

True or not, this post is somewhat obnoxious - and it's not the first one...
(I actually have a tough skin when it comes to these things, but I couldn't help noticing the trend)

 

[jlf58]

Most get fired if they don't make that much ...

Uhhhh, I doubt it. How much do you think they make? I would be very surprised to see any of them that make much over $100,000/year and those guys are few and far between. I doubt there are any $250,000/year Timeshare salespeople.

 

[rsackett]

So far I have not read any leaked info that Marriott is punishing resale buyers or rewarding loyal retail customers. Or out to kill resale prices for that mater.

Ray

 

[mclyne]

Aruba

Fletch, this is an odd post, and out of character for you? I'm sure it's lost in the electronic translation, but this reads more negatively than I'm sure was intended.

Let's just all be friends, speculate some more on the new system, and pass Aruba.

Hi,

I am new to the threads and am learning a lot for all of you. Every so often someone writes about the , "Aruba" thread. Can anyone tell me how to get on it? Thank you

 

[l2trade]

So far I have not read any leaked info that Marriott is punishing resale buyers or rewarding loyal retail customers. Or out to kill resale prices for that mater.

Ray

Nor have I heard that from any of the people I've spoken with. Time will tell how exactly Marriott will treat resale buyers going forward. Hopefully, there is no difference.

 

[SueDonJ]

Hi,

I am new to the threads and am learning a lot for all of you. Every so often someone writes about the , "Aruba" thread. Can anyone tell me how to get on it? Thank you

Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners Being Ripped Off By Marriott - READ IF AN OWNER

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

 

[PerryM]

Nor have I heard that from any of the people I've spoken with. Time will tell how exactly Marriott will treat resale buyers going forward. Hopefully, there is no difference.

Marriott is to sell Points - there is no deed anymore - is this a RTU by any chance?

If not, when folks need to sell their Points what do they sell? Points. So will Points be sold on eBay and weeks too?

And the resale buyer, do they inherit all the rights and benefits of the sold Points or is there another class of Resale Points which lack some goodies?

I don't know if we will know until the system is released.

 

[BocaBum99]

really ? yet this was not ?
Some TUGers need to get a life. BTW many salespeople make over $250,000. When I was with MArriott, I hade ONE year that I didn't.


quit my high paying job to go work for peanuts lying and ripping people off

I know you know what I am about to say, but others may not.

The full picture on timeshare sales at the resorts is that it is a winner take all profession. Commission plans heavily favor those who make sales and quickly weed out those who don't. The plans are filled with bonus accelerators where your commission rate depends on the total sales you make for the period. If you make a lot of sales in a given month, you make a lot more money on a percentage basis. In addition, if you make a sale, you get the next tour faster. Then, you can get a couple tours earlier in the day and leave early. It's a beautiful business for those who do it well.

So, on a sales floor, there will be a handful of top sales guys who make a ton of money. And, the vast majority make around $40-80k or quickly get washed out. When you work on 100% commission, you sell or you die.

 

[davidvel]

Marriott is to sell Points - there is no deed anymore - is this a RTU by any chance?

No. Except for any completely new resorts (if any), the deeds will remain.

We'll have to wait and see if they will be owned by Marriott, or more likely in a trust as suggested above.

 

[taffy19]

So far I have not read any leaked info that Marriott is punishing resale buyers or rewarding loyal retail customers. Or out to kill resale prices for that mater.

Ray

I never wanted to believe that their plan was to punish re-sale buyers or try to hurt re-sale values on purpose so that they can pick up deeds for next to nothing when they start exercising the ROFR again. That would hurt the company eventually when people find out immediately, within the rescission time, that values are practically nothing the moment they have bought. Keeping the re-sale values up would make more sense and also with the new point system.

I also believe that the more points someone has that it may come with some extra perks. A better view or making reservations earlier like they were able to do before. Most companies have perks for their best customers but they cannot violate the basic right that came with the original deed for the one week owners, if they do not convert.

Every Marriott timeshare is a prospect when they start building new resorts again and they can buy at construction prices. Re-sale buyers also pay the same maintenance fees as everyone else and that helps to keep the resorts running properly. Every owner is valuable to the timeshare developer so they can continue building new resorts in the future. After all, we finance their new projects.

PS. Now I think about it further, will there be lower construction prices in the future if all what they sell are point packages? Do points differ in price when you buy early in the project or not? Will price increases go away like they used to have?

 

[PerryM]

No. Except for any completely new resorts (if any), the deeds will remain.

We'll have to wait and see if they will be owned by Marriott, or more likely in a trust as suggested above.

I just can't imagine deeds flowing in and out of the trust so once in the trust they are under Marriott's control and the fine-print will describe what the "owner" gets, but they remain in the trust until Marriott decides to demolish the resort? And then what?

But who knows...

 

[l2trade]

I just can't imagine deeds flowing in and out of the trust so once in the trust they are under Marriott's control and the fine-print will describe what the "owner" gets, but they remain in the trust until Marriott decides to demolish the resort? And then what?

But who knows...

Once the deeds are in the trust, for all practical purposes they stay in the trust until some fine-print unforeseen future event where Marriott decides to adjust the underlying TRUST holdings. Marriott cannot sell more points in the trust than remain in the trust. I speculate that if Marriott decided to demolish a resort, they would need to acquire an appropriate amount of points or replace it with a comparable amount of points. My knowledge of trust law is limited, so I will let others explain it better and I will wait until I read the fine-print.

When new owners sell resale points from the trust, they are selling points from the trust. The new owner will have points they can use to make reservations within the Marriott network offered by the trust. I am told that it never will convert back to a resort week deed. So, deeds go into the trust and never come back out.

 

[RedDogSD]

If I make the following generalization, would people agree with me?

Platinum Marriott holders are going to like the new program because they will have enough points to get top weeks at their home resorts and probably enough points to make pretty solid trades most of the time and they will really like the fact that they can stretch their points to get multiple weeks by going off season or in smaller units. This is the appeal of HGVC and they are still selling VERY well.

Gold owners are not sure yet.

Silver/Bronze owners are not happy for the most part. They love the fact that they can often make huge trade ups for top resorts in good seasons because of the II 21 day policy. They know that they will not have enough points to make trade ups to places like Hawaii or Calfornia in Platinum season and they are very afraid (with good reason) that the inventory being deposited into Interval is going to shrink substantially which will reduce the chances of their trading up.

Just generalizations. As a Platinum owner, I am thrilled with the new program. I usually like to go Off Season so I am going to get more value out of my points I bet.