Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[James1975NY]

Uhhhh, I doubt it. How much do you think they make? I would be very surprised to see any of them that make much over $100,000/year and those guys are few and far between. I doubt there are any $250,000/year Timeshare salespeople.

The high money makers are certainly the minority but the best are/were making $250,000 or more. I know of one rep that made $60,000k in ONE month selling out of Maui. Not too shabby.

 

[gmarine]

Most get fired if they don't make that much ...

Interesting. I didnt know that timeshare salesperson is one of the highest paying professions in the country.

 

[PerryM]

Once the deeds are in the trust, for all practical purposes they stay in the trust until some fine-print unforeseen future event where Marriott decides to adjust the underlying TRUST holdings. Marriott cannot sell more points in the trust than remain in the trust. I speculate that if Marriott decided to demolish a resort, they would need to acquire an appropriate amount of points or replace it with a comparable amount of points. My knowledge of trust law is limited, so I will let others explain it better and I will wait until I read the fine-print.

When new owners sell resale points from the trust, they are selling points from the trust. The new owner will have points they can use to make reservations within the Marriott network offered by the trust. I am told that it never will convert back to a resort week deed. So, deeds go into the trust and never come back out.

So the question is how will resale Points be handled - what goodies will be left off.

I can't believe that after 4 years of bashing resales Marriott won't make resale Points just as unattractive.

 

[PerryM]

The high money makers are certainly the minority but the best are/were making $250,000 or more. I know of one rep that made $60,000k in ONE month selling out of Maui. Not too shabby.

This is why for each $1 the developer spends to buy the timeshare $4 of sales is needed.

And why resales sell for a fraction of the developer's price - we don't have to compensate the sales team again nor the stockholders.

 

[BocaBum99]

Can you add to the details I've shared thus far?

BTW - I enjoy attending presentations to help train and educate the sales staff. It is my public service for the legions of short term tour sales guides working alongside the much smaller world of sales folks that actually can make a living at this. Quite often, I recognize folks from years past, and often remember their faces from tours at competitor brands. My wealth of knowledge sometimes pisses sales reps off. (BTW - I humbly admit that my wealth of knowledge is just child's play compared to many other TUGGERS here!) Other times the sales manager comes over and jokes about offering me a job. One time, the sales manager seemed really serious about it - he wanted to stop the presentation and hire me on the spot. Yeah right, like I'm gonna quit my high paying job to go work for peanuts lying and ripping people off. "Dude, this ain't no job interview!" is what I felt like saying. "This is an obsessive hobby and analytical research to learn how to best game the system for crying out loud!" Instead, I just smiled and thanked him for the offer. :rofl:

PS - There goes my future timeshare sales career. I just made myself unemployable. :hysterical:

Based on what I've seen in this thread, you have pretty good analytical skills. Those skills are the exact opposite of what you need to be a successful timeshare salesman. The best timeshare salesman are larger than life. They sell emotion, not logic. They sell a dream, not a defensible investment.

I would guess that you wouldn't be able to sell one timeshare unit in 60-days. It's a very difficult job. 100% of the tour guests that sit in front of you have no intentions of buying. Logic, doesn't sell them. And, you've got to get these people to trust you enough where they make the second or third most expensive purchase in their life within a couple hours of meeting you and without checking out the product when you leave.

When sales managers tell you that you should be a timeshare salesman, they are mocking and making fun of you. They don't actually believe you will be any good. They just want to find a way to torture you in a different way. They actually think you suck and would love nothing more than make you believe you could be a timeshare salesman and take a few sales tours.

 

[gmarine]

Think highly of yourself, don't you ? Many of the sales people make more than you.. I can assure you of that ..

This is really uncalled for and unlike you. He generalized about timeshare salepersons which apparently offended you but he did not insult you personally.

 

[rsackett]

So if I as a legacy owner, or what ever we are called keep my deed and switch to points optional, will I keep paying my maintenance fees based on my home resort even when I use points for a year? If so I think Platinum owners at high end resorts will be very happy, but Bronze owners will never use points. If I get very few points but my maintenance fee is the same as someone who gets MANY more points I would never switch.

Ray

 

[RedDogSD]

Interesting. I didnt know that timeshare salesperson is one of the highest paying professions in the country.

It is pretty shocking to me as well since only 5% of individuals in the United States make over 100,000 and only 1.5% of households make over $250,000. These guys sure don't act Rich. I rarely see nice watches or shoes (the real trick to find people with money are the watches and the shoes although some rich people make a point of wearing Timex and Reebok to throw you off). Other signs are manicured hands. I have to pick these people out a lot in my job because these are the people who will pay me to do what I do. So, if the TS salespeople are that well off, they sure hide it well.

 

[BocaBum99]

Perry,

Based on what L2trade has said in this thread, I would think that you would absolutely love the new Marriott point system. It sounds like it will be a lot like WorldMark. You can either purchase Marriott points and/or a deeded week like at Eagle Crest or a Seaside Fractional to deposit specific weeks into points on a yearly basis. Isn't that your favorite system?

 

[BocaBum99]

It is pretty shocking to me as well since only 5% of individuals in the United States make over 100,000 and only 1.5% of households make over $250,000. These guys sure don't act Rich. I rarely see nice watches or shoes (the real trick to find people with money are the watches and the shoes although some rich people make a point of wearing Timex and Reebok to throw you off). Other signs are manicured hands. I have to pick these people out a lot in my job because these are the people who will pay me to do what I do. So, if the TS salespeople are that well off, they sure hide it well.

Top timeshare sales people at resorts make over $250,000 per year. In Marriott, it's a lot more mostly because the products are much more high end.

However, the average is more like $40-80k/year. Most of them don't make it at all and quit or are fired after about 3 months or less.

 

[PerryM]

Perry,

Based on what L2trade has said in this thread, I would think that you would absolutely love the new Marriott point system. It sounds like it will be a lot like WorldMark. You can either purchase Marriott points and/or a deeded week like at Eagle Crest or a Seaside Fractional to deposit specific weeks into points on a yearly basis. Isn't that your favorite system?

Too early to tell - I need to understand the exit strategy; what do I do with a bunch of Points and the lifetime of MFs that come with it. Marriott won't go into selling them so I'll have to read the paperwork.

Just a few more days to go....

 

[hipslo]

(the real trick to find people with money are the watches and the shoes although some rich people make a point of wearing Timex and Reebok to throw you off). Other signs are manicured hands.

this is the funniest thing i have read in quite some time.

 

[RedDogSD]

this is the funniest thing i have read in quite some time.

It is funny, but true. Not sure why but watches are a big deal. I am a watch addict myself so I can relate. If you see a Rolex, they are usually trying to broadcast something. If you can spot a AP, a Panerai, IWC or Breitling, then that person is trying to be subtle.

 

[dougp26364]

What do you think would happen if marriott ever drops a resort? In the new system Marriott will own a lot of deeds and need to sell those. I would think that would be a BIG incentive Not to drop any resort in the future.

Ray

This is a very good point and one that could explain the "legacy" week process. If they allow those owners to keep their deeded weeks and switch at will to points, should they ever decide to drop that resort would it be such a big deal legaly for them to do so?

 

[BocaBum99]

The high money makers are certainly the minority but the best are/were making $250,000 or more. I know of one rep that made $60,000k in ONE month selling out of Maui. Not too shabby.

Top sales people in companies who sell products worth more than $10,000 make more than $250,000 is most industries.

 

[dougp26364]

But like exchanging often you can use rental income to really trade up, or to make profit, or both. If you have a prime Marriott week reserved and rent it for $2500 or more, you can often turn around and rent the same week in the same resort for $1500 or less by shopping around on different web sites. Why let II have your prime week when you can use it to vacation at a different prime week with cash in your pocket? If it doesn't rent fairly quickly you can always deposit it with II later.

In the past when the economy was better you could rent a Hawaii week to someone, take that rental cash and pay to rent a week from someone else, pay for your air fare, and have a little spending money left over. It is very hard to do in this economy but was fairly easy to do in the past and hopefully will be again in the future.

To vacation at the same or similar resort with $500 to $1000 cash in your pocket is worth a little extra effort to many, myself included. You can always exchange a prime week if it doesn't rent, but you can't rent it after you gave it to II.

I'm not willing to argue whether or not rent for income to turn around and rent what you want vs trading points. I'm sure that could be a better way to do things. I will argue that the typical timeshare owner has no interest in what would be a more labor intensive method to get what they want. If the typical timeshare owner see's value in trading their high demand week for 2 or 3 lower demand weeks, they'll see value in the system.

Personally, I don't have time to mess with A. renting my week an B. searching for what I want at the price I want to pay. I don't want to deal with someone who might want to cancel last minute and demand a refund. I don't want to deal with someone who maybe gets caught renting as a business and has all their reservations cancelled. I want simplicity and what I would consider decent value. My bet is that the typical timeshare owner thinks along those lines.

If they see value in getting more in exchange from their high value week through points, then they'll buy in. If you own a high value week and every other week is a trade down, then they'll see value in getting more lower value weeks with points rather than trading one high value week for one lower value week. The principle of keep it simple comes into play with more people than you think.

 

[BocaBum99]

Too early to tell - I need to understand the exit strategy; what do I do with a bunch of Points and the lifetime of MFs that come with it. Marriott won't go into selling them so I'll have to read the paperwork.

Just a few more days to go....

You will be buying and selling them on eBay just like WorldMark accounts.

 

[rsackett]

This is a very good point and one that could explain the "legacy" week process. If they allow those owners to keep their deeded weeks and switch at will to points, should they ever decide to drop that resort would it be such a big deal legaly for them to do so?

I would think it would not be a big deal IF Marriott does not put weeks it owns (via ROFR) in the trust. If when they use ROFR to get a unit at a low price and resell it they sell it as points without a deed the trust could end up with a lage stake in all current resorts.

Ray

 

[RedDogSD]

Top sales people in companies who sell products worth more than $10,000 make more than $250,000 is most industries.

That is why I feel sorry for most Car Salesman. There are no margins on cars any longer. The markup on most cars is $1000-$2000 over invoice price. Even though the car costs $30,000, the dealership needs heavy volume to make money. The salesperson just does not make that much on each sale and it is hard to sell more than 1-2 cars in a day. So, even their top salespeople aren't doing that well.

 

[BocaBum99]

This is a very good point and one that could explain the "legacy" week process. If they allow those owners to keep their deeded weeks and switch at will to points, should they ever decide to drop that resort would it be such a big deal legaly for them to do so?

I think the structure that L2trade suggests is a good one that can work. It would be very easy for Marriott to get rid of a resort. All it needs to do is build or buy a new one and sell the old one. Just swap out an equal amount of inventory into and out of the system. Very easy to do since the Trust will own all of the deeds. It can sell of whole condos or even whole resorts a lot easier.

Basically, what everyone will own is an undivided interest in the entire Trust. Or, a number of shares of all the deeded weeks and units.

 

[PerryM]

You will be buying and selling them on eBay just like WorldMark accounts.

Could be - there really is no penalty buying resale WM credits but we will have to see about Marriott.

Should we start a pool as to when the first resale Marriott Points appear for resale?

My guess is 3 months or Sep 20, 2010 at noon.

 

[dougp26364]

I trust the information I was told and in turn shared here to the best of my ability. I tried hard to summarize, so that I would not disclose who I spoke with. I do not want to get any Marriott employee in trouble. If the answers from all my questions to them that I believe to be true and shared here are later proven false when the system rolls out, then I will be

I apologize in advance if any leak details I shared are later proven false. Please know I feel confident in what I shared. I take personal pride in trying to get everything right. I know I will be ridiculed and ignored shortly if I got duped by the sales staff.

Until June 20th, this thread is for employee leaks, rumors and speculative discussion. If you want official stuff in writing, you will have to wait. Hopefully, we will start a new TUG thread for the official roll out. Let's remember, this ain't no Watergate! I'm not holding any leaked official documents.

I'm not saying you info isn't accurate. It just seems an odd way for Marriott to do things. Then again you're piecing things together from conversations with salesmen. I've found over the years that the sales reps aren't always the best source. Some are very good, others appear to sleep through a meeting catching only a couple of words and then filling in the blanks as they see fit. Others just have trouble with comprehension and then translate what they believe to be right.

As it sounds the way you've described, it will take a little while to digest. But that's what's good about TUG. This gives us something to think about while waiting for the official announcement. It gives us time to prepare our questions before speaking with a rep.

 

[BocaBum99]

If L2trade is correct, I will probably be purchasing a Marriott resale and then enrolling it into points for internal Flexchange purposes. I'll buy the Marriott that provides me the lowest annual total cost of ownership over 3 years. Total cost of ownership will include cost of capital and expected terminal value of selling my ownership after 3-5 years. Probably a Platinum unit somewhere.

 

[DanCali]

Platinum Marriott holders are going to like the new program because they will have enough points to get top weeks at their home resorts and probably enough points to make pretty solid trades most of the time and they will really like the fact that they can stretch their points to get multiple weeks by going off season or in smaller units. This is the appeal of HGVC and they are still selling VERY well.

Just generalizations. As a Platinum owner, I am thrilled with the new program. I usually like to go Off Season so I am going to get more value out of my points I bet.

I disagree - if a mainland Platinum cannot get a Hawaii week with the same unit size, why would I like it? If you own DSV, are lucky to reserve a March week, and deposit the full 2BR in II - I imagine the odds of getting a 2BR summer week at a place like Waiohai (no lockoffs) are north of 80% (assuming you can take 1 of 10 possible summer weeks). The same goes for a 2BR NCV owner lucky enough to reserve a summer week for trading purposes. These are not "Perry-like" trades - considering what I described one was depositing, many would call these like for like trades in the II world. In the new system, those odds may be, or are likely to be, exactly zero...

...unless you buy more points of course!

Don't be thrilled yet - wait for the points chart...

 

[dougp26364]

I2Trade: Thanks for what seems to be the most "reliable" information yet, and information that should make some people feel a little more comfortable.

Did any of your questions involve if EOY units will be included??

Detailed. Definately. Reliable. We'll have to wait and see. The only reason I would have for doubt is the info is coming by word of mouth. To many times I've seen something said correctly but heard incorrectly. This is brand new. Training has only started recently. There will be mistakes made in the interpretation of how the program really works.

This morning we had a staff meeting on a new procedure our hospital will be doing. Already there is miscommunication in what we've been told. Fortunately, we also have this in writing so it's easy to rectify the misunderstandings.

I'm sure that the general spirit of what Marriott will be doing is correct. The details are still probably a little fuzzy. This should be fun after the 20th when we can possibly get at the written rules of the new program.