Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[DanCali]

Thinking of converting to points?

click here for a glimpse into the future of II exchanges.

 

[rickandcindy23]

He also mentioned the new program will essentially translate to a 50-100% increase in maintenance fees if you change over to the points.

Then why would anyone do it? That makes no sense at all. Are they going to say that you would double your value with the points?

Maybe Marriott is determined to drop the resale value of their product to nearly zero, so they can ROFR everything and get all inventory back at zero $ cost.

 

[winger]

....
He also mentioned the new program will essentially translate to a 50-100% increase in maintenance fees if you change over to the points.

So, who is smoking what? Do they want existing, deeded customers to convert to the new points system, or WHAT ?

 

[banquopack]

There's obviously enough new changes and tweeks on the current that all the sales guys were walking around like zombies.


They had training every morning and afternoon. Deprogram - Reprogram
And a few were VERY grumpy. Perhaps they have no idea how in the world they are going to sell this new 'thing'.

 

[brigechols]

So, who is smoking what? Do they want existing, deeded customers to convert to the new points system, or WHAT ?

MVCI sales people smoking Marriottjuana :rofl:

 

[davidvel]

Except that, with no home resort priority, every single points owner, system wide, can now try and get those prime weeks, not just owners at that resort, in that season. As a result, competition is likely to increase for the best prime weeks, not decrease.

This would not be legal according to the governing documents.

 

[l2trade]

I2Trade: Thanks for what seems to be the most "reliable" information yet, and information that should make some people feel a little more comfortable.

Did any of your questions involve if EOY units will be included??

There are no more home resorts, no EOY, no seasons, no lockoffs, no one bedroom versus two bedrooms... Only existing owners retain actual deeds like that to a specific property. The TRUST sells points backed up by a portfolio of unsold deeds from many resorts. The MF for points is based on the TRUST holdings. The MF for legacy owners is the same old MF formula for the resort they still own. I assume this means that some legacy resort weeks may be a better $/point deal than the TRUST, while others might not be. The devil is in the details on that and it may take a long time and a few years worth of annual dues to predict which is the better resale investment. It is reassuring that Marriott will NOT require owners to give up their home resort deeds in exchange for TRUST points. I feared a system where the TRUST gobbles up the legacy deeds over time. I've been told many times that that is NOT the plan. Existing owners will only exchange the usage year for points, not the deed. Whew!!!

Points can be used for all the above, plus I was told it can be used for nightly reservations and even spend extra points to guarantee stuff like a specific room view type where one could not guarantee that request before. I did not get enough answers about the room view type example to know anything more about how or if that will actually work.

 

[davidvel]

Ok, so I called Marriott Owner Services. 4 days from the official unveiling, and they have heard absolutely nothing about it. Really? Someone please tell me what company they have ever worked for that is getting ready to unveil a program that will turn their entire business on it's ear and yet they have provided absolutely no info, NO TRAINING to their front line folks????

If it is set up as envisioned, there would have to be a separate division to handle all the "points" customer service, at least for a while. The regular Owner services would still be doing the same thing they always have: helping owners reserve their weeks according to the governing documents.

 

[melroseman]

Oopps...sorry, I meant will existing EOY owners have the same option to switch to the point system on a semi-annual basis and then back again?

 

[davidvel]

But I'm still at a loss to understand why they need a Trust - for what purpose?

I don't think a trust is technically necessary to implement the system as proposed, but it must be understood that any "new system" MUST BE AN OVERLAY to the existing deeded interests/governing documents. You cannot simply do away with property rights as some have suggested, and it would be impossible to re-write all those deeds, etc. even if everyone agreed to it. Trusts are used all the time to gain control over property interests.

Some posts suggest there will not be trust, and it does not appear necessary (although a $695 fee seems to be in the ballpark for a deed closing). If there is no trust, they could simply reach agreement with the owner to deposit their reserved week into the points system (exactly as II, redweek, ans RCI, do.)

 

[Fredm]

But they could restrict the points owners from renting, no?

Maybe. Depends on the terms. We don't know enough yet.

 

[l2trade]

To be clear, in the past a salesperson would gradually move to pitching an EOY silver season, studio, garbage can view, etc - in order to get to the lowest purchase price and annual MF. Going forward, this same salesperson will promise the entry level prospect the dream of getting an Hawaiian 2 bedroom 4th of July week, but sell the minimum intro points package. This person will discover it takes multiple years of point savings to score just one night - they may end up settling for an EOY in a studio at Marriott Desert Canyon Villas, but heck, they may be able to score that 4th of July week. ;-)

 

[banquopack]

It was funny, I talked to several Marriott guys in the last two weeks while in Hawaii and when I specifically asked about the new system they got this glazed look - what are you talking about.

When I shared a few concerns and details they were quite surprised I even had heard a hint of this. The keep-it-secret programming must be strong.

The twice daily programming/deprogramming training they were all in tells me the combination of the two may be hard to keep straight! A 100% new system would be much easier to learn for the sales guys.

 

[rsackett]

...He also mentioned the new program will essentially translate to a 50-100% increase in maintenance fees if you change over to the points.

Boy, I sure hope this is true! The resale price for my OLD weeks would be much higher!

Ray

 

[l2trade]

I don't think a trust is technically necessary to implement the system as proposed, but it must be understood that any "new system" MUST BE AN OVERLAY to the existing deeded interests/governing documents. You cannot simply do away with property rights as some have suggested, and it would be impossible to re-write all those deeds, etc. even if everyone agreed to it. Trusts are used all the time to gain control over property interests.

Some posts suggest there will not be trust, and it does not appear necessary (although a $695 fee seems to be in the ballpark for a deed closing). If there is no trust, they could simply reach agreement with the owner to deposit their reserved week into the points system (exactly as II, redweek, ans RCI, do.)

I am told the TRUST is for unsold inventory and how Marriott plans to sell interest in that inventory going forward. It is one method to legally establish a fixed value points bank of developer owned inventory as the foundation of the new point system. Again, it is what Marriott will do for all unsold timeshare resort inventory on Jun 17th forward. Marriott reached the conclusion that they could not sell individual deeds at the prices and speed with which they need to disposition them without upsetting existing owners. Marriott also wanted a simpler way to market to a new audience that stays in Marriott hotels and does not travel a week at a time or plan so far in advance. Marriott is well aware that they do not want to piss off their existing, enormous owner base. The recent mistakes made by other companies are well known to them.

 

[rsackett]

I am told the TRUST is for unsold inventory and how Marriott plans to sell interest in that inventory going forward. It is one method to legally establish a fixed value points bank of developer owned inventory as the foundation of the new point system. Again, it is what Marriott will do for all unsold timeshare resort inventory on Jun 17th forward. Marriott reached the conclusion that they could not sell individual deeds at the prices and speed with which they need to disposition them without upsetting existing owners. Marriott also wanted a simpler way to market to a new audience that stays in Marriott hotels and does not travel a week at a time or plan so far in advance. Marriott is well aware that they do not want to piss off their existing, enormous owner base. The recent mistakes made by other companies are well known to them.

So, are you saying that when Marriott exercises ROFR on a week it will NOT become part of the trust? Will Marriott still sell those as deeded weeks with an option to use points? If so than Marriott will still be selling deeded weeks, just not new deeded weeks.

Ray

 

[davidvel]

I am told the TRUST is for unsold inventory and how Marriott plans to sell interest in that inventory going forward. It is one method to legally establish a fixed value points bank of developer owned inventory as the foundation of the new point system. Again, it is what Marriott will do for all unsold timeshare resort inventory on Jun 17th forward. Marriott reached the conclusion that they could not sell individual deeds at the prices and speed with which they need to disposition them without upsetting existing owners. Marriott also wanted a simpler way to market to a new audience that stays in Marriott hotels and does not travel a week at a time or plan so far in advance. Marriott is well aware that they do not want to piss off their existing, enormous owner base. The recent mistakes made by other companies are well known to them.

That makes sense as a model to manage all those weeks collectively. I expect they woud transfer any ROFRd weeks as well, if they ever reinstitute that.

 

[SueDonJ]

I wonder how they'd handle the developer inventory that's bulk-banked now into II, and if there will be point bargains in their system similar to what's available now during flexchange in II?

 

[SueDonJ]

That makes sense as a model to manage all those weeks collectively. I expect they woud transfer any ROFRd weeks as well, if they ever reinstitute that.

As well as any weeks they collect through foreclosures, m/f defaults, equity upsells, etc...?

 

[bwenzel]

I just have to chime in here and say that I really don't have much interest in points. We very much enjoy staying at our resorts for week long intervals and generally go on vacation for at least two weeks straight to minimize are greatest vacation costs, travel to get there.

I have no interest in paying fees to convert to points to I have the flexibility to pay more in travel costs to stay at a timeshare resort for a shorter stay period. We sold our DVC points to get into Marriott's deeded weeks program and don't regret it for one moment!

As long as I'm not punished for keeping my deeded weeks and see my exchange opportunities limited, I can't see a scenario when I want to covert to points. Besides, we exchange sometimes, but absolutely love where and when we own and would have no problem going there every year!

Bill

 

[banquopack]

So, are you saying that when Marriott exercises ROFR on a week it will NOT become part of the trust? Will Marriott still sell those as deeded weeks with an option to use points? If so than Marriott will still be selling deeded weeks, just not new deeded weeks.

Ray

That was my understanding of what the program. I think the sales people will be happy to have a deed to pull out of their pocket when somebody knows how risky a point system can be (both for reservation sake and devaluation over time) and just wants to stay in 'x' location every year.

 

[taffy19]

Shouldn't all this be in the existing thread? . We can't beat that Aruba thread in post counts if people keep starting new ones

Moderator, please move the thread.

 

[l2trade]

It was funny, I talked to several Marriott guys in the last two weeks while in Hawaii and when I specifically asked about the new system they got this glazed look - what are you talking about.

When I shared a few concerns and details they were quite surprised I even had heard a hint of this. The keep-it-secret programming must be strong.

The twice daily programming/deprogramming training they were all in tells me the combination of the two may be hard to keep straight! A 100% new system would be much easier to learn for the sales guys.

You cannot ask when others may be listening. I tried onsite a few weeks back. It was a funny response. I was in a casual setting outside and leisurely walking past two sales and marketing employees. The first, more senior looking employee, immediately gave me a blank stare and denied any knowledge of anything changing. The other, younger guy, chimed in quickly too blurting out that yes, he knows about it. Then the older guy looked at the younger guy. He got that stare like, 'ooh, you are in trouble!'. Then, the younger guy quickly shut up and told me he can't say anything about it. :hysterical:

The bulk of the staff were only privy to rumors prior to the initial training meetings last week. I got most of my info the past two days, that is, post staff training.

 

[DanCali]

Moderator, please move the thread.

Are you concerned it's stealing posts from the other thread so Aruba may not be passed after all?

I'm actually in favor of a new thread once the Speculation period is over until then - catch Aruba if you can!

 

[l2trade]

So, are you saying that when Marriott exercises ROFR on a week it will NOT become part of the trust? Will Marriott still sell those as deeded weeks with an option to use points? If so than Marriott will still be selling deeded weeks, just not new deeded weeks.

Ray

I am not positive on the answer to this, but I asked the question and got a somewhat muddy response. I believe ROFR will get transferred into the TRUST going forward. Sales reps do not like to talk openly about resale related topics with a prospect other than to strongly discourage it, truth being told or not.