Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[dougp26364]

Under the current system, the week 52 ms owner could rent that week out for big bucks and use the proceeds to rent the other weeks you mention directly from owners. Without giving up the assurance of being able to get week 52 at ms in most years, if/when they do want it.

Sure they could but, what if other owners are like me? I'm assuming (could be wrong) that the typical timesahre owner has little to no interest in renting their own unit, then renting the units they want. It's easier and probably faster to exchange for those units. No fuss, no tax implications. Just a simple exchange.

 

[l2trade]

Ok, so I called Marriott Owner Services. 4 days from the official unveiling, and they have heard absolutely nothing about it. Really? Someone please tell me what company they have ever worked for that is getting ready to unveil a program that will turn their entire business on it's ear and yet they have provided absolutely no info, NO TRAINING to their front line folks????

Marriott has been around way too long to run that stupidly. Marriott is all about training programs. There's NO WAY they would unveil this WITHOUT having their front line folks ready to answer every question they could possibly get. My week is coming up in a month. I plan on spending my time getting ready to ENJOY it, not getting lost in this crazy thread any longer.

I had to do a little more sales rep shopping for answers. I've spoken with Marriott both in person and via phone. I've attended quite a few sales presentations in my time and saved some contacts. I heard much more details when I followed up using their direct personal cell phone line outside their working hours. Since sales of the old system ends today, the incentive for any sales reps to talk more openly about it after work is effectively over. I'm sure I will get a few more high pressure sales calls today. When I decline, I'm sure I will have to wait until Sunday to learn more.

 

[hipslo]

Can't be done. It would be illegal to restrict an owner from renting their deeded interest reservation. It is part of the bundle of rights associated with real estate.

actually i think there is language in the governing docs (at least at ms) to the effect that rentals are permitted so long as the rental activity isnt a "business". who knows what that might be interpreted to mean in any given case.....

 

[l2trade]

Hi, can someone do us all a favor and post the official letter they have gotten from Marriott that details all of this out? I haven't gotten my official letter yet, and all this speculation is driving me crazy. Instead of weeding thru all these e-mails, posting the official information would make it much easier. I am too new at this to even begin to grasp all this stuff that is bantering about.

Thanks in advance!

There is no official letter. Just lots of phone calls and loose lips from recently trained sales reps after hours, as they try to score one more sale before the final resort weeks promotion ends.

 

[Asia2000]

Based on all the rumors, does anyone know what the cost is to join the point system for a deeded week owner. I think we all have a pretty good idea that points are coming and we can probably put our unit within 90% of the approx. point value (using a consistent base).

The big question: How much to convert? Is it a one time thing, or do you have to pay extra annually?

 

[tombo]

There is no official letter. Just lots of phone calls and loose lips from recently trained sales reps after hours, as they try to score one more sale before the final resort weeks promotion ends.

So from now until the 20th, sales reps will be telling you how much better it will be to own a "Legacy" deeded week since you will have the best of both worlds. After the 20th they will be telling you all the disadvantages that come with "Legacy weeks" and how lucky you are to be able to purchase points instead of those worthless deeded weeks. Somewhere in between will lie the truth.

 

[luvgoldns]

Ok, so I called Marriott Owner Services. 4 days from the official unveiling, and they have heard absolutely nothing about it. Really? Someone please tell me what company they have ever worked for that is getting ready to unveil a program that will turn their entire business on it's ear and yet they have provided absolutely no info, NO TRAINING to their front line folks????

Marriott has been around way too long to run that stupidly. Marriott is all about training programs. There's NO WAY they would unveil this WITHOUT having their front line folks ready to answer every question they could possibly get. My week is coming up in a month. I plan on spending my time getting ready to ENJOY it, not getting lost in this crazy thread any longer.

I suppose one can assume that "they" do know BUT are not supposed to tell the rest of us at this time.

ileneg

 

[Fredm]

actually i think there is language in the governing docs (at least at ms) to the effect that rentals are permitted so long as the rental activity isnt a "business". who knows what that might be interpreted to mean in any given case.....

I believe "business" applies to owners of 12 or more weeks.

 

[hipslo]

Sure they could but, what if other owners are like me? I'm assuming (could be wrong) that the typical timesahre owner has little to no interest in renting their own unit, then renting the units they want. It's easier and probably faster to exchange for those units. No fuss, no tax implications. Just a simple exchange.

you are probably right. to me, it would be worth a little effort to do what i want and not give up my (very valuable) fixed week home resort priority. others will likely be willing to give up those valuable rights in exchange for simplicity.

 

[rsackett]

What do you think would happen if marriott ever drops a resort? In the new system Marriott will own a lot of deeds and need to sell those. I would think that would be a BIG incentive Not to drop any resort in the future.

Ray

 

[tombo]

Sure they could but, what if other owners are like me? I'm assuming (could be wrong) that the typical timesahre owner has little to no interest in renting their own unit, then renting the units they want. It's easier and probably faster to exchange for those units. No fuss, no tax implications. Just a simple exchange.

But like exchanging often you can use rental income to really trade up, or to make profit, or both. If you have a prime Marriott week reserved and rent it for $2500 or more, you can often turn around and rent the same week in the same resort for $1500 or less by shopping around on different web sites. Why let II have your prime week when you can use it to vacation at a different prime week with cash in your pocket? If it doesn't rent fairly quickly you can always deposit it with II later.

In the past when the economy was better you could rent a Hawaii week to someone, take that rental cash and pay to rent a week from someone else, pay for your air fare, and have a little spending money left over. It is very hard to do in this economy but was fairly easy to do in the past and hopefully will be again in the future.

To vacation at the same or similar resort with $500 to $1000 cash in your pocket is worth a little extra effort to many, myself included. You can always exchange a prime week if it doesn't rent, but you can't rent it after you gave it to II.

 

[l2trade]

I feel a little better now. If we're both a little perplexed by what's been posted, something just isn't right.

I'm really at a point where I welcome seeing this new program in writing. I'm not so certain this isn't just someone having a little fun and pulling someone's leg. I just don't see Marriott cutting a new road through a jungle when there's a six lane freeway they could drive down at 100 mph.

I trust the information I was told and in turn shared here to the best of my ability. I tried hard to summarize, so that I would not disclose who I spoke with. I do not want to get any Marriott employee in trouble. If the answers from all my questions to them that I believe to be true and shared here are later proven false when the system rolls out, then I will be

I apologize in advance if any leak details I shared are later proven false. Please know I feel confident in what I shared. I take personal pride in trying to get everything right. I know I will be ridiculed and ignored shortly if I got duped by the sales staff.

Until June 20th, this thread is for employee leaks, rumors and speculative discussion. If you want official stuff in writing, you will have to wait. Hopefully, we will start a new TUG thread for the official roll out. Let's remember, this ain't no Watergate! I'm not holding any leaked official documents.

 

[scrapngen]

So from now until the 20th, sales reps will be telling you how much better it will be to own a "Legacy" deeded week since you will have the best of both worlds. After the 20th they will be telling you all the disadvantages that come with "Legacy weeks" and how lucky you are to be able to purchase points instead of those worthless deeded weeks. Somewhere in between will lie the truth.

Totally agree with you here. It will be harder to get good info about resales from the sales dept, as they will continue to bash them. I'm sure they will say things about buying those legacy weeks that are not true, and smart TUGGERs will have to look through the documents to see what it real or not. Could very well be that they have no way to "upgrade" those, but to me, that doesn't make business sense. So the question is - as with all of this - what will it cost? and what are the limitations/restrictions?

 

[l2trade]

So from now until the 20th, sales reps will be telling you how much better it will be to own a "Legacy" deeded week since you will have the best of both worlds. After the 20th they will be telling you all the disadvantages that come with "Legacy weeks" and how lucky you are to be able to purchase points instead of those worthless deeded weeks. Somewhere in between will lie the truth.

You are correct. I have received both sales pitches at length. I asked numerous questions for comparative analysis to see if I should buy now or wait. There are pros and cons on each side. Only today allows me to buy the old system (retail - LMAO) with the option to wait and rescind. Of course, the sales rep wants to sell to me today, but also doesn't want to talk me out of buying Sunday's product if I don't move fast enough. For the record, I will do neither.

If Marriott wants my business, it will be a legacy resale deed. I can afford to wait a year or two to see how all this plays out. I own too many timeshares already. My main interest in all of this is to understand the implications of the change well enough, so I know how it impacts II availability for me as a non-Marriott owner exchanging in. I was planning to dump my Starwood timeshares and switch to Marriott last fall, but I heard the early elusive rumors direct from the mouth of a Marriott Sales VP at the time.

 

[scrapngen]

I trust the information I was told and in turn shared here to the best of my ability. I tried hard to summarize, so that I would not disclose who I spoke with. I do not want to get any Marriott employee in trouble. If the answers from all my questions to them that I believe to be true and shared here are later proven false when the system rolls out, then I will be

I apologize in advance if any leak details I shared are later proven false. Please know I feel confident in what I shared. I take personal pride in trying to get everything right. I know I will be ridiculed and ignored shortly if I got duped by the sales staff.

Until June 20th, this thread is for employee leaks, rumors and speculative discussion. If you want official stuff in writing, you will have to wait. Hopefully, we will start a new TUG thread for the official roll out. Let's remember, this ain't no Watergate! I'm not holding any leaked official documents.

You have achieved much on your own and put yourself out there asking the questions and openly sharing. Noone should ridicule you for that, IMO!! Obviously, this is not going to be straightforward, so the devil is in the details.

And even if the official written structure says one thing, the question is still, how will Marriott actually implement? The 13/12 month rule seems to be implemented somewhat loosely, allowing across resorts, and according to some posts, not quite consecutive reservations (fri start and sun start) And it is for use only, but clearly that is not checked or enforced. So I suspect that this program will be tweaked somewhat within a year or two if it doesn't actually work the way the designers envision.

It's possible that certain things will be allowed that aren't quite to the letter of the contract to keep the high multiple week, converted, all developer customers happy. Those people already seem to be able to claim their specific #, best view room consistently while others get the best of the leftovers, so I'm sure they will continue to be treated well. And that is logical in any company - Donald Trump will be treated a bit nicer than I will and will never be given a parking lot view The good companies will make sure that everyone is treated with equal respect, even if they don't all get the gift basket. But if those parking lot views that currently go to exchangers or the lowest on the totem pole might now go to reticent Marriott weeks owners? That would be intolerable.

 

[SueDonJ]

I trust the information I was told and in turn shared here to the best of my ability. ... Until June 20th, this thread is for employee leaks, rumors and speculative discussion.

The thing that's odd about all the info you got is that you've apparently found a few sales reps who are spilling secrets to you left and right - prior to their training sessions - while pretty much every other seasoned TUGger with connections hasn't been able to make the sales reps dance at all. The "inside" info that has been shared for months by DaveM and Fletch has been greeted with a healthy dose of skepticism; it's no surprise that your info is now getting the same treatment.

That said, every bit of info shared here is another tidbit to dissect, and that's not a bad thing. (But if what you've shared turns out to be THE THING, well, that is a bad thing IMO.)

 

[melroseman]

I2Trade: Thanks for what seems to be the most "reliable" information yet, and information that should make some people feel a little more comfortable.

Did any of your questions involve if EOY units will be included??

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Of course internal trades with deeded weeks have been done for years for those owners who own in Marriott's Florida Club.

That said, does anyone have any knowledge as to the status of The Florida Club in light of the new changes coming on June 20th?

Or, any speculation about whether The Florida Club will still even exist in light of the soon to be available internal Marriott to Marriott trading?

 

[PerryM]

Practical Joker salesrep?

Maybe you misread what I said. Fixed/floating week owners will either choose points for that year or stick with the old floating weeks system. Once in points, you are looking at the entire points network availability. The only reason to switch to points just to reserve the week you already own is if you are someone like me trying to find ways to game system availability or garner extra nights - it could just as easily go the other way against you depending on demand and timing. I did not get enough details about how many points for what. I also do not know enough specifics about the reservation calendar windows (i.e. - what happens when each year that turns weeks reservation availability into points availability into nights availability? I expect the answer to that question will be complex and vary depending on the ownership type of the villa weeks in question and the elections and timing (and/or lack thereof) of the owners.). I asked numerous questions about this hypothetical scenario and my post above is a summary of the answers I got. Tuggers have known for a long time that some weeks within a season are worth far more than others. Marriott knows that too and wants more granular control to better balance demand. Going forward, all Marriott will sell are points. For week owners that upgrade into the new program, you elect to use the old system or convert your usage to points during each year. Marriott will market this as an add-on upgrade for existing owners and not something that takes away what you already own.

I sure hope your source doesn't read TUG and this is a little payback for all my bashing - this was all a practical joke to get back at us....

P.S.
Because so far this sounds like Marriott asked a 5th grade class to design a new way to drive owners mad...

 

[GregT]

Shouldn't all this be in the existing thread? . We can't beat that Aruba thread in post counts if people keep starting new ones

That is very very funny!!! I'm glad I'm not the only one counting down to Aruba!

 

[DanCali]

Can't be done. It would be illegal to restrict an owner from renting their deeded interest reservation. It is part of the bundle of rights associated with real estate.

But they could restrict the points owners from renting, no?

 

[winger]

I just signed up for the Thursday, 24 June at 7 p.m. GMT webinar.

Hmmm, what time is 7PM GMT ? I am here in California.

 

[Ann in CA]

I2Trade: Thanks for what seems to be the most "reliable" information yet, and information that should make some people feel a little more comfortable.

Did any of your questions involve if EOY units will be included??

My husband and I attended a presentation last week in Arizona. We were told that there will be no more EOY weeks after the new program takes place. That is why they are selling out all the Marriott EOY weeks. (This only came out after we did not buy an annual gold or platinum weel, so, they had a super duper deal for us on an EOY platinum)

Right up front I told the sales rep that we would not buy unless we knew how the new points program would impact current owners. He got a blank expression and said "What new program?" However, I outlined what we were concerned about, and eventually he had to acknowledge that he could not tell us anything as he'd like to keep his job. (We'd heard that before)

However, by kind of answering the MANY various questions I had, without directly saying so, he essentially let me glean that there will be no more deeded weeks, that there will be no more EOY weeks ( I could not detect how that would impact current EOY however, but don't see how they could exclude them)

 

[banquopack]

In hanging out with a head dude on Maui last week, sounds like internal exchanges will be completely without II (even with your deeded week). Their sales center was changing over to the Ritz program, with a new Marriott Destinations banner hung near the front.

He also mentioned the new program will essentially translate to a 50-100% increase in maintenance fees if you change over to the points.

 

[zam]

So i wonder if youwill you be able to go in and out of the points system if you a legacy owner. Was that 695.00 per week?

The sales rep told me it would be $595 for 1 week or $695 for all weeks (if you own multiple)... a one time fee and then you will be able to choose to opt-in or opt-out each year without another fee like that.