Speculation About Marriott's New Timeshare Structure [merged]

[hipslo]

Now, let's put this in points terms. Mountainside week 52 is worth 60,000 points. Fall Williamsburg is worth 25,000 points. Spring Orlando is worth 25,000 points and summer Mountainside is worth 25,000 points. Does this seem a little more desirable for exchanging that week 52? I bet even you would have to admit that yes it's a little more fair. The week 52 Mountainsid owner would now be getting fair value for their week rather than face trading down, just because the wanted to go from a very high demand week to a location in shoulder season..

Under the current system, the week 52 ms owner could rent that week out for big bucks and use the proceeds to rent the other weeks you mention directly from owners. Without giving up the assurance of being able to get week 52 at ms in most years, if/when they do want it.

 

[PerryM]

I'm stumped...

I'm speechless with the rumors - I don't understand why Marriott needs a Trust for unsold weeks and ALL future units they build/acquire.

Can someone explain why they need a Trust for those Points?

Will they have totally different ownership rights over what we all have now?

P.S.
I feel like I've let you guys down - I tried to cook up every convoluted, crazy, insane, and just abnormal Points system I could think of.

I never even came close to what the rumor seems to be turning into - just plain weird; this sounds like Marriott incorporating timeshares into their hotel/motel business.

Can daily maid service be far behind?

 

[PerryM]

No Perry, exchanging up is much easier OVERALL as well, it's just more costly so and you would be able to get less weeks overall over a period of a few years. The system I2Trade has laid out is about the best one could hope for in that current owners get their cake and eat it too. The changes in II exchanging will likely be the same, or nearly so, no matter what the specifics of the internal exchange and conversions end up as.

BG does it this way successfully, so does RCI points and their member resorts, doesn't Worldmark do the same?

NO, not in RED season - 7 days min 91 days - 13 months out. At 90 days it drops.

Here's the link.

 

[m61376]

Some quick notes about the new system rolling out Jun 20th -

6. Point requirements for reservations will vary per night, size, location, week of the year, etc... Marriott will manage point values within the inventory similar to cash values for nightly hotel rentals.

Did your source indicate whether the values assigned would be based on current rental rates or just a similar type program?

 

[tombo]

I'm speechless with the rumors - I don't understand why Marriott needs a Trust for unsold weeks and ALL future units they build/acquire.

Can someone explain why they need a Trust for those Points?

Will they have totally different ownership rights over what we all have now?

P.S.
I feel like I've let you guys down - I tried to cook up every convoluted, crazy, insane, and just abnormal Points system I could think of.

I never even came close to what the rumor seems to be turning into - just plain weird; this sounds like Marriott incorporating timeshares into their hotel/motel business.

Can daily maid service be far behind?

In several of my posts including post 2301 I said that Marriott will place all Marriott controlled inventory into points starting day one and that any new resorts will be points only resorts. I have also predicted additional housekeeping fees for any stays of less than 7 days and points useage fees every time you use points. We will see if i was correct about those and many other postulations in the near future.

From #2310:
"To jump start the points program I assume Marriott will place all developer owned weeks into points inventory, all reposessed/delinquent MF's weeks into points, and most if not all conversions will have one of the best in season weeks deposited into points inventory. This will give new points owners the best access to the best weeks proving to all skeptics that points memberships are much better than deeded weeks when exchanging. However when enough people convert to points the advantages of preferential inventory will diminish because Marriott has not actually created any new inventory when they created a points program. Then the reality will set in that you simply paid more money to have the same access to the same weeks you had before the points scam was launched."

 

[PerryM]

In several of my posts including post 2301 I said that Marriott will place all Marriott controlled inventory into points starting day one and that any new resorts will be points only resorts. I have also predicted additional housekeeping fees for any stays of less than 7 days and points useage fees every time you use points. We will see if i was correct about those and many other postulations in the near future.

From #2310:
"To jump start the points program I assume Marriott will place all developer owned weeks into points inventory, all reposessed/delinquent MF's weeks into points, and most if not all conversions will have one of the best in season weeks deposited into points inventory. This will give new points owners the best access to the best weeks proving to all skeptics that points memberships are much better than deeded weeks when exchanging. However when enough people convert to points the advantages of preferential inventory will diminish because Marriott has not actually created any new inventory when they created a points program. Then the reality will set in that you simply paid more money to have the same access to the same weeks you had before the points scam was launched."

Your ideas make sense as to how Marriott could merge everything into one. That gives their folks instant access to every hot holiday week or weekend and yet depicting themselves as the bighearted developer who cares about all owners.

This is my theory on how RCI and RCI Points works internally - everything is just Point oriented and old fashioned weeks are internally converted to Points to make one system more efficient.

But I'm still at a loss to understand why they need a Trust - for what purpose?

 

[Antny]

Inform current owners?

I'm sorry if this has already been asked but when and how does Marriott intend to explain/inform the current deeded owners of the new system? Email, website or formal letter?

 

[zam]

The pitch was that buying in now would preserve both options: (the legacy system as they called it) and the new points system. It sounded like if you wanted to go to your home resort each year the legacy system would be optimal. Each system will obviously have advantages and disadvantages so being able to play in both would be the best of both worlds.

I'm most curious to see how the maintenance fee will be handled in the new system and if a legacy owner chooses to convert to the new system in a given year if it will have any impact on their maintenance fee.

 

[potchak]

Well, if legacy is still better, then resale sounds like the option

 

[zam]

Yes.... unless resale weeks aren't eligible to be converted into the new points system if one wanted to stay at another resort. Our rep didn't discuss this (as we don't own any resale weeks) but my guess is that resale buyers will have a major disadvantage in the new system. Also, I'd assume inventory for the legacy trades (II and internal to Marriott) will go down as the new point system consumes inventory at desirable locations... so trading outside of the new system will probably become more difficult.

 

[thinze3]

$695

That's actually a cheap enough buy-in price. My thought is that Marriott will be aggressive in using ROFR at sold out or nearly sold out resorts soon enough.

Resale or retail owners - watch you email boxes for enticements.

 

[jlf58]

last I heard, legacy weeks will still be able to be bought

That's actually a cheap enough buy-in price. My thought is that Marriott will be aggressive in using ROFR at sold out or nearly sold out resorts soon enough.

Resale or retail owners - watch you email boxes for enticements.

 

[PerryM]

Tweet... tweet ...

I'm sorry if this has already been asked but when and how does Marriott intend to explain/inform the current deeded owners of the new system? Email, website or formal letter?

Probably just a Tweet - @MarriottVacClub.

 

[Y-ASK]

3. The upgrade cost will be lowest during the introductory period. Owners who upgrade after that period will pay more to do so.

Will there be any sort of difference in cost based on if you are a resale owner?

Y-ASK

 

[laurac260]

Hi, can someone do us all a favor and post the official letter they have gotten from Marriott that details all of this out? I haven't gotten my official letter yet, and all this speculation is driving me crazy. Instead of weeding thru all these e-mails, posting the official information would make it much easier. I am too new at this to even begin to grasp all this stuff that is bantering about.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Whirl]

I'm speechless with the rumors - I don't understand why Marriott needs a Trust for unsold weeks and ALL future units they build/acquire.

Can someone explain why they need a Trust for those Points?

Will they have totally different ownership rights over what we all have now?

P.S.
I feel like I've let you guys down - I tried to cook up every convoluted, crazy, insane, and just abnormal Points system I could think of.

I never even came close to what the rumor seems to be turning into - just plain weird; this sounds like Marriott incorporating timeshares into their hotel/motel business.

Can daily maid service be far behind?

I am staying out of all this speculation, but ahhhh the thought of daily maid service would make my timeshare stays complete...I can only dream!

 

[Fredm]

I am concerned about this as well, and think you may very well be correct.

Can't be done. It would be illegal to restrict an owner from renting their deeded interest reservation. It is part of the bundle of rights associated with real estate.

 

[rpluskota]

So i wonder if youwill you be able to go in and out of the points system if you a legacy owner. Was that 695.00 per week?

 

[l2trade]

If this is what's taken Marriott two years to come up with, it has to be one of the oddest systems I've ever seen. It seems to me that a straight points overlay system with fixed week owners electing to keep their reservation or accept points for their week would be so much simpler. Those that have floating weeks would automatically be assigned points every year for their week but, they would be assigned enough points to reserve their specific unit type each year. Why would Marriott want to cut a new road and make this more difficult than it needs to be? If it's not simple to understand, people aren't going to like it, they'll become frustrated with it and the complaints will be on. Marriott will lose it's reputation as one of the better timeshare systems to own.

On the other hand, if Marriott tanks the resale prices on weeks units, maybe down to that $1 DRI unit you see on E-bay, there will be lots of opportunities opening up on some really nice resort weeks.

Maybe you misread what I said. Fixed/floating week owners will either choose points for that year or stick with the old floating weeks system. Once in points, you are looking at the entire points network availability. The only reason to switch to points just to reserve the week you already own is if you are someone like me trying to find ways to game system availability or garner extra nights - it could just as easily go the other way against you depending on demand and timing. I did not get enough details about how many points for what. I also do not know enough specifics about the reservation calendar windows (i.e. - what happens when each year that turns weeks reservation availability into points availability into nights availability? I expect the answer to that question will be complex and vary depending on the ownership type of the villa weeks in question and the elections and timing (and/or lack thereof) of the owners.). I asked numerous questions about this hypothetical scenario and my post above is a summary of the answers I got. Tuggers have known for a long time that some weeks within a season are worth far more than others. Marriott knows that too and wants more granular control to better balance demand. Going forward, all Marriott will sell are points. For week owners that upgrade into the new program, you elect to use the old system or convert your usage to points during each year. Marriott will market this as an add-on upgrade for existing owners and not something that takes away what you already own.

 

[laurac260]

Ok, so I called Marriott Owner Services. 4 days from the official unveiling, and they have heard absolutely nothing about it. Really? Someone please tell me what company they have ever worked for that is getting ready to unveil a program that will turn their entire business on it's ear and yet they have provided absolutely no info, NO TRAINING to their front line folks????

Marriott has been around way too long to run that stupidly. Marriott is all about training programs. There's NO WAY they would unveil this WITHOUT having their front line folks ready to answer every question they could possibly get. My week is coming up in a month. I plan on spending my time getting ready to ENJOY it, not getting lost in this crazy thread any longer.

 

[l2trade]

I'm sorry if this has already been asked but when and how does Marriott intend to explain/inform the current deeded owners of the new system? Email, website or formal letter?

You can call Marriott Sales on Sunday, Jun 20th. The sales reps will be trained and authorized to talk about it then. I do not know the timing about other forms of communication, but I'm sure many of us will be hounding them if we don't see stuff quickly in writing.

 

[dougp26364]

Maybe you misread what I said. Fixed/floating week owners will either choose points for that year or stick with the old floating weeks system. Once in points, you are looking at the entire points network availability. The only reason to switch to points just to reserve the week you already own is if you are someone like me trying to find ways to game system availability or garner extra nights - it could just as easily go the other way against you depending on demand and timing. I did not get enough details about how many points for what. I also do not know enough specifics about the reservation calendar windows (i.e. - what happens when each year that turns weeks reservation availability into points availability into nights availability? I expect the answer to that question will be complex and vary depending on the ownership type of the villa weeks in question and the elections and timing (and/or lack thereof) of the owners.). I asked numerous questions about this hypothetical scenario and my post above is a summary of the answers I got. Tuggers have known for a long time that some weeks within a season are worth far more than others. Marriott knows that too and wants more granular control to better balance demand. Going forward, all Marriott will sell are points. For week owners that upgrade into the new program, you elect to use the old system or convert your usage to points during each year. Marriott will market this as an add-on upgrade for existing owners and not something that takes away what you already own.

It's an awfully odd way to accomplish something that seems so simple and has been done before. Why re-invent the wheel? Keep it simple. Switching between weeks and points just doesn't seem like the most efficient way to accomplish what should be a simple overlay program. The more complicated Marriott makes this, the less participation they're likely to have.

 

[l2trade]

Will there be any sort of difference in cost based on if you are a resale owner?

Y-ASK

Timeshare sales reps are not reliable sources of information about how resale owners will actually be treated, especially when stuff isn't being handed out in writing. My contacts want to discourage resale purchases. We will need to wait for the system roll-out on this answer.

 

[Pro]

When all this goes down, can someone answer these two questions for me:

1: Will points members be able to bank and borrow points from one year to the next?

2: Will points members be able to tranfer points from one member to another member?

Joe

 

[dougp26364]

Hi, can someone do us all a favor and post the official letter they have gotten from Marriott that details all of this out? I haven't gotten my official letter yet, and all this speculation is driving me crazy. Instead of weeding thru all these e-mails, posting the official information would make it much easier. I am too new at this to even begin to grasp all this stuff that is bantering about.

Thanks in advance!

There is nothing official yet and, as far as I know, no one has recieved anything official that could be posted.