RCI Suspended Eagle Village Tamiment

[LisaC]

It does appear the "deed backs" are going to a new company. A holding company also managed by John Oakes and I will assume ultimately owned by The Oakes Group. We need to obtain a copy of the full agreement since it is executed now. The recording only contains the 3 pages shown below.

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pikepa.avenuinsights.com

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What do you think this actually means that the deedbacks are going to a new company? I thought maybe they were trying to do deedbacks to get money and then go bankrupt.

We are in the middle of doing a deedback. Resale Closings sent us a document that transfers our week to Eagle Village and releases us from any future claims. We had to sign it with a notary. We just mailed it with a check. The money is held in escrow until the deedback is complete. Then the money goes to Eagle Village.

When I talked to Frank at Resale Closings a couple of weeks ago he told me that he had had a meeting with John Oaks the day before. He was told that there would be a special assessment and an increase in maintenance fees next year.

We are thinking of doing the deedback too. Sounds like it makes sense being you don't know how much they are going to assess us and the maintenance fees going up.

 

[194725RR]

What do you think this actually means that the deedbacks are going to a new company? I thought maybe they were trying to do deedbacks to get money and then go bankrupt.

We are thinking of doing the deedback too. Sounds like it makes sense being you don't know how much they are going to assess us and the maintenance fees going up.

I'm not sure they're using a bankruptcy option. The truth is we don't know him or how he does business or what his skillsets are. They have to be broad with access to expertise and key resources to make it work. The risk is on us for that. We can only use our instincts and factual evidence to know how to proceed.

I think it would be in their best interest to have perpetual fixed income from owners. I wouldn't seem to make sense for them to lose extensive amounts of passive income because that is what their budget will be based upon and will insulate them from business income fluctuations.

I think Nellevad, having 2 units, original ownership documents, and regular direct contact has made some great points that I value in helping to make this important decision.

I haven't heard back from customer service if they will give us a grace period to decide once they inform us of their plan. Even if they do, we don't know if their plan will be successful or that people will want to continue to frequent the area. It does sound promising, yet this is another unknown.

They have no current value basis for raising their MF since the current state of the units is not good (to be kind). Just because they need money for unknown (to us) improvements and will have a MF number that relates to their need does't mean it will correlate to the value of the property to us.

I'm going to try to determine a rough RCI points per maintenance fee dollar ratio for similar resorts (not Gold or Silver Crown or having a Hospitality Award), minimal amenities, and rural cabin-like units. Hopefully, when they announce the new MF, they will use a thoroughly developed basis for their updated MF and not solely based upon their financial needs.

The law of supply and demand that is widely used to set consumer goods prices takes into account what the supplier needs in order to maintain a profit margin AND what the customer is willing to pay based upon what they pay elsewhere for similar products and the value they place on the good being purchased. They may need to rely on minimal profit margins for the first few years and project out a bit, relying on their own assets or other business venture's income in order to keep owner membership from backing out and significantly reducing their perpetual income. Many of us are deeded family owners from the inception of this property. My mom bought this for our family with the intention of passing it on down the line. I hope to keep this going.

Personally, I think it's worth waiting to get more concrete facts before I decide, but we must all ultimately decide what works best for us individually. This forum has been so helpful in getting through this, especially for those of who were unwilling stay this year due to the condition of the property. Owners in this situation have received nothing for this year's membership fees. We are already down $760. Losing deedback fees would seem to make it worse if there is hope we can restore what we had.

 

[Sammy1234]

I am reading an article online about timeshare assessments at acagroup.org some interesting things to point out. A factor to consider is the age of the property. Older properties might require more frequent and extensive repairs, leading to HIGHER special assessment fees. Unexpected fees can cause financial strain sometimes enough to find ways to get out of their timeshare. Especially for seniors and those on a fixed income. Additionally, the increased fees can affect the resale value of timeshare units which can make selling a timeshare more challenging and potentially reduce its market value.
The article then goes on to say. They highlight the importance of clear communication between timeshare companies and owners, as well as the need for owners to stay informed and engaged in the decision-making process that can impact their financial commitment. That has been a BIG PROBLEM with EV keeping us in the dark!!
In some cases, timeshare contracts may require a majority vote among owners before a significant fee increases or special assessments can be imposed. Does anyone know if there is anything in our contract about this? Does anyone know what percentage we are going to be assessed? We need to know in order to make an educated decision as to if we are going to stay or go!
Experts emphasize the need for clearer disclosure and more proactive communication between timeshare companies and owners. Again, lacking with Eagle Village!
For the people that rent out their units, they probably are not too concerned about all of this because they will just increase their rent in order to make up for increased fees, but what about the probably majority or us that are seniors or on a fixed income, this is going to hurt us financially!!
In closing, can someone check and see in the contract if there is anything about our rights regarding fee assessments. I inherited this timeshare and cannot find the contract otherwise I would look myself.

 

[Sammy1234]

Another thought I just had is, when we get an assessment amount, will there be documentation to show us how they arrived at the percentage that we will be assessed? Once they show us the amount, are they going to be willing to subtract from that amount the money that we lost in RCI fees from the time RCI suspended Eagle Village and we lost the ability to trade weeks and are they going to subtract at least two years of maintenance fees that we have been paying, but not willing to stay there from all the negative online reviews. I am saying two years it might be even more, I am not sure how far back the bad reviews go, as we are only timeshare owners for the past two years.

 

[slarney77]

Another thought I just had is, when we get an assessment amount, will there be documentation to show us how they arrived at the percentage that we will be assessed? Once they show us the amount, are they going to be willing to subtract from that amount the money that we lost in RCI fees from the time RCI suspended Eagle Village and we lost the ability to trade weeks and are they going to subtract at least two years of maintenance fees that we have been paying, but not willing to stay there from all the negative online reviews. I am saying two years it might be even more, I am not sure how far back the bad reviews go, as we are only timeshare owners for the past two years.

More than two years for reviews

 

[Sammy1234]

More than two years for reviews

Ok thanks. I thought there was more than two years of bad reviews, but I wanted to make sure. Thanks for that information.

 

[slarney77]

Ok thanks. I thought there was more than two years of bad reviews, but I wanted to make sure. Thanks for that information.

I mean there is many more years than teo

 

[194725RR]

I'm not sure they're using a bankruptcy option. The truth is we don't know him or how he does business or what his skillsets are. They have to be broad with access to expertise and key resources to make it work. The risk is on us for that. We can only use our instincts and factual evidence to know how to proceed.

I think it would be in their best interest to have perpetual fixed income from owners. I wouldn't seem to make sense for them to lose extensive amounts of passive income because that is what their budget will be based upon and will insulate them from business income fluctuations.

I think Nellevad, having 2 units, original ownership documents, and regular direct contact has made some great points that I value in helping to make this important decision.

I haven't heard back from customer service if they will give us a grace period to decide once they inform us of their plan. Even if they do, we don't know if their plan will be successful or that people will want to continue to frequent the area. It does sound promising, yet this is another unknown.

They have no current value basis for raising their MF since the current state of the units is not good (to be kind). Just because they need money for unknown (to us) improvements and will have a MF number that relates to their need does't mean it will correlate to the value of the property to us.

I'm going to try to determine a rough RCI points per maintenance fee dollar ratio for similar resorts (not Gold or Silver Crown or having a Hospitality Award), minimal amenities, and rural cabin-like units. Hopefully, when they announce the new MF, they will use a thoroughly developed basis for their updated MF and not solely based upon their financial needs.

The law of supply and demand that is widely used to set consumer goods prices takes into account what the supplier needs in order to maintain a profit margin AND what the customer is willing to pay based upon what they pay elsewhere for similar products and the value they place on the good being purchased. They may need to rely on minimal profit margins for the first few years and project out a bit, relying on their own assets or other business venture's income in order to keep owner membership from backing out and significantly reducing their perpetual income. Many of us are deeded family owners from the inception of this property. My mom bought this for our family with the intention of passing it on down the line. I hope to keep this going.

Personally, I think it's worth waiting to get more concrete facts before I decide, but we must all ultimately decide what works best for us individually. This forum has been so helpful in getting through this, especially for those of who were unwilling stay this year due to the condition of the property. Owners in this situation have received nothing for this year's membership fees. We are already down $760. Losing deedback fees would seem to make it worse if there is hope we can restore what we had.

As promised, follow up information to my email to customer service is below. A relevant response was recently posted on Facebook, the response is quoted below.

"Hi everyone. We've been receiving some messages here and through email asking about deedback possibilities. We have added a Deedback Offer Request form to the website Regardless of your status or reasons we are willing to work with you on this. If you are interested in discussing a deedback please fill out this form and we'll get you in the queue."

 

[mcara00]

As promised, follow up information to my email to customer service is below. A relevant response was recently posted on Facebook, the response is quoted below.

"Hi everyone. We've been receiving some messages here and through email asking about deedback possibilities. We have added a Deedback Offer Request form to the website Regardless of your status or reasons we are willing to work with you on this. If you are interested in discussing a deedback please fill out this form and we'll get you in the queue."

Thanks …RR,
Too bad they didn't make this offer “public” earlier. I think someone posted their signed deed back with a June signature date back in early August, which probably means some knew about their options in May or even April at the very least.
It still isn’t exactly known by all owners because EV is depending on owners to communicate this offer among themselves via TUG.

 

[Sammy1234]

Thanks …RR,
Too bad they didn't make this offer “public” earlier. I think someone posted their signed deed back with a June signature date back in early August, which probably means some knew about their options in May or even April at the very least.
It still isn’t exactly known by all owners because EV is depending on owners to communicate this offer among themselves via TUG.

Also keep in mind the more deedbacks, the higher we will be assessed.

 

[TUGBrian]

Thanks …RR,
Too bad they didn't make this offer “public” earlier. I think someone posted their signed deed back with a June signature date back in early August, which probably means some knew about their options in May or even April at the very least.
It still isn’t exactly known by all owners because EV is depending on owners to communicate this offer among themselves via TUG.

they also posted it on facebook, and its on the resort website as well now.

 

[greeler]

As promised, follow up information to my email to customer service is below. A relevant response was recently posted on Facebook, the response is quoted below.

"Hi everyone. We've been receiving some messages here and through email asking about deedback possibilities. We have added a Deedback Offer Request form to the website Regardless of your status or reasons we are willing to work with you on this. If you are interested in discussing a deedback please fill out this form and we'll get you in the queue."

Has anyone completed a deed back with Resale closings yet? I am in process and wondering if it went smoothly.
Sadly we can't use the resort even if it does get refurbished.

 

[Sammy1234]

Has anyone completed a deed back with Resale closings yet? I am in process and wondering if it went smoothly.
Sadly we can't use the resort even if it does get refurbished.

Does anyone know, because I am confused as to the deed buy backs, someone posted a little while ago that it appeared the deed backs are going to a new company, a holding company managed by John Oakes, but yet on the latest information posted by Eagle Village about the exciting new renovations, it says if you would like to do a deed buy back, fill out the form and send it to Frank@resale closings. That is the person who has been doing deed buy backs for at least the last two years. So this is concerning to me - who in fact is doing the deed buy backs, John Oakes holding company or Frank at resale closings?

 

[slarney77]

I spoke with Frank today and he's been doing deed backs and timeshares for 17 years he said he was the one who brought RCI to eagle village. I asked him about the cost of everything going up and he couldn't give me a solid answer as well as what's going to be happening to eagle village he did mention that they're only going to take another hundred deed backs which I don't really believe I think they're going to take as many as people want to give back, I think John oaks is taking control of any deed back to give him a majority ownership of eagle village he said definitely the maintenance will be going up and there will be an assessment and you will not know what the assessment would be until maybe a day or two before the owners do it also said on the website that they're going to be looking at each individuals situation but the standard fee is 2500 or 2,600 he said he's seen it go as high as 5500 and some the other places he does business in I asked a simple question let's say I don't want to do anything I don't want to pay maintenance because the fact is my maintenance fee all these years did not maintain anything he said they could try to come after my house and put a lien on it which I don't believe I live in Florida and they got really strong laws here against this we have to remember one thing The IRS deems timeshares not valuable and now that it's come to light Frank did state that eagle village has been mismanaged for a long time that might be a sales pitch to get people to trust them I don't know he seems like a pleasant man but at the end of the day he runs a business

 

[nellevad]

Resaleclosings is the lawyer.
You have to have a lawyer in Pennsylvania to do any real-estate transactions. Bushkill PA Eagle Village LLC needs a lawyer to complete transactions and Eagle Village has been using them for years to process deed backs. Frank and Jennifer at Resaleclsings are the lawyers. Just call them and they will answer your questions. I posted this info many pages ago. I used them to take my sons names off my deed.

 

[nellevad]

They are just lawyers, they don't have any thing to do with EV accept to process paperwork, and they do it for many other timeshare owners.

 

[TUGBrian]

he said they could try to come after my house and put a lien on it

well thats nonsense.

I mean, anyone could TRY to do that, but its nonsense.

 

[Sammy1234]

I spoke with Frank today and he's been doing deed backs and timeshares for 17 years he said he was the one who brought RCI to eagle village. I asked him about the cost of everything going up and he couldn't give me a solid answer as well as what's going to be happening to eagle village he did mention that they're only going to take another hundred deed backs which I don't really believe I think they're going to take as many as people want to give back, I think John oaks is taking control of any deed back to give him a majority ownership of eagle village he said definitely the maintenance will be going up and there will be an assessment and you will not know what the assessment would be until maybe a day or two before the owners do it also said on the website that they're going to be looking at each individuals situation but the standard fee is 2500 or 2,600 he said he's seen it go as high as 5500 and some the other places he does business in I asked a simple question let's say I don't want to do anything I don't want to pay maintenance because the fact is my maintenance fee all these years did not maintain anything he said they could try to come after my house and put a lien on it which I don't believe I live in Florida and they got really strong laws here against this we have to remember one thing The IRS deems timeshares not valuable and now that it's come to light Frank did state that eagle village has been mismanaged for a long time that might be a sales pitch to get people to trust them I don't know he seems like a pleasant man but at the end of the day he runs a business

Thank you very much for this information.

 

[Sammy1234]

Someone said the Attorney Generals Office cannot do anything, but yet see the attached files. Plus if I am reading this correctly, there is a 7.5% cap on how much annual maintenance fees can be increased.
The first attachment says that in Pa a timeshare has to keep amenities that were there at time of purchase, which I was thinking when we purchased the timeshare at Eagle Village, there was an outdoor pool one of the reasons we would want to go there and now there is no outdoor pool. Any thoughts on if this is a valid reason for them to have to let us out? Just throwing it out there.

 

[Sammy1234]

Someone said the Attorney Generals Office cannot do anything, but yet see the attached files. Plus if I am reading this correctly, there is a 7.5% cap on how much annual maintenance fees can be increased.
The first attachment says that in Pa a timeshare has to keep amenities that were there at time of purchase, which I was thinking when we purchased the timeshare at Eagle Village, there was an outdoor pool one of the reasons we would want to go there and now there is no outdoor pool. Any thoughts on if this is a valid reason for them to have to let us out? Just throwing it out there.

 

[Sammy1234]

If they are telling timeshare owners they can put a lien on their house, and this is not true, that is one of the things the timeshare in this article got in trouble for.

 

[Sammy1234]

If they are telling timeshare owners they can put a lien on their house, and this is not true, that is one of the things the timeshare in this article got in trouble for.

Just wanted to add, I thing they can foreclose on your timeshare unit and take it back, but not sure about by our home.

 

[nellevad]

About the amenities...that is true. And that is why in 2004-5 ish, when the Tamiment Hotel (TH) closed, our timeshare BoD's ( which is not a management company like in your article) sued the owner of TH and won. That is how the Recreation Center was built. The TH owner actually had to build one for the residents at The Glen, also. And, I also believe EV doesn't really own the Recreation Center, but they do own the land under it, which was deeded to them in 2005ish. I think EV pays a use fee. Not sure, but something was mentioned about that years ago.

That article is about the timeshare owners suing the management company. We didn't have a management company until John Oakes stepped in. That's why trying to sue our Board was like trying to sue yourself.
Now, with Bushkill PA Eagle Village Property Owners, LLC, which is what John Oakes is using to manage EV, things are different. He's bringing outside money in. Lots of it. In return, new deedbacks are going into the new LLC, in a recorded business transaction. That must be how EV is compensating for the renovations. In a way, he is creating a new Resort along side EV that is not a timeshare. I believe EV is going to deed him some of EV's stock of ownerless weeks. Obviously we overlap in use of the buildings since every building still has some EV owners. I also believe he is going to build something new at the lakes edge, next to phase 2 and across from the Recreation area. It would be to his advantage to take deeds back for a reasonable fee or forclose on owners who don't pay, because that is how EV got so run down --no money. But not to his advantage to put leins on personal property and cause years of legal entanglement. That was just a lawyer being a lawyer telling you they could. The law is on their side in that. But would they for a 2950.00 piece of property?? No. If you owed a mortgage on the property, of say 10,000, the the mortgage company would definitely do it.
Assessments are going to be necessary, as are increases in MFs. Right now the taxes are on the current tax assessment of the property, which is about 2950.00 per week, by the county. That makes EV property worth about 10 million ON PAPER, but who knows what its worth on the market. Once renovations are done, taxes will increase for sure, but there will be a lag. So they will need to start to increase slowly to stay ahead of taxes. We are talking county real-estate taxes here, not IRS income taxes. ( IRS has nothing to do with EV's taxes unless you rent and make income that is above what it costs you to own it, like me. And I never fully cover my MFs anymore when I rent.) And yes there are caps on MF increases, but I don't know if there are on special assessments.
All in all, I think Oakes will try to give us a fair shake. If I had only 1 week, I think I would deed back right now, taking advantage of the no questions asked policy and 2500 fee. But I have 2. If I have to pay 5000 , to deed both back, I might as well wait and see what my weeks will be worth after renovations. It's going to cost me either way.

 

[Sammy1234]

About the amenities...that is true. And that is why in 2004-5 ish, when the Tamiment Hotel (TH) closed, our timeshare BoD's ( which is not a management company like in your article) sued the owner of TH and won. That is how the Recreation Center was built. The TH owner actually had to build one for the residents at The Glen, also. And, I also believe EV doesn't really own the Recreation Center, but they do own the land under it, which was deeded to them in 2005ish. I think EV pays a use fee. Not sure, but something was mentioned about that years ago.

That article is about the timeshare owners suing the management company. We didn't have a management company until John Oakes stepped in. That's why trying to sue our Board was like trying to sue yourself.
Now, with Bushkill PA Eagle Village Property Owners, LLC, which is what John Oakes is using to manage EV, things are different. He's bringing outside money in. Lots of it. In return, new deedbacks are going into the new LLC, in a recorded business transaction. That must be how EV is compensating for the renovations. In a way, he is creating a new Resort along side EV that is not a timeshare. I believe EV is going to deed him some of EV's stock of ownerless weeks. Obviously we overlap in use of the buildings since every building still has some EV owners. I also believe he is going to build something new at the lakes edge, next to phase 2 and across from the Recreation area. It would be to his advantage to take deeds back for a reasonable fee or forclose on owners who don't pay, because that is how EV got so run down --no money. But not to his advantage to put leins on personal property and cause years of legal entanglement. That was just a lawyer being a lawyer telling you they could. The law is on their side in that. But would they for a 2950.00 piece of property?? No. If you owed a mortgage on the property, of say 10,000, the the mortgage company would definitely do it.
Assessments are going to be necessary, as are increases in MFs. Right now the taxes are on the current tax assessment of the property, which is about 2950.00 per week, by the county. That makes EV property worth about 10 million ON PAPER, but who knows what its worth on the market. Once renovations are done, taxes will increase for sure, but there will be a lag. So they will need to start to increase slowly to stay ahead of taxes. We are talking county real-estate taxes here, not IRS income taxes. ( IRS has nothing to do with EV's taxes unless you rent and make income that is above what it costs you to own it, like me. And I never fully cover my MFs anymore when I rent.) And yes there are caps on MF increases, but I don't know if there are on special assessments.
All in all, I think Oakes will try to give us a fair shake. If I had only 1 week, I think I would deed back right now, taking advantage of the no questions asked policy and 2500 fee. But I have 2. If I have to pay 5000 , to deed both back, I might as well wait and see what my weeks will be worth after renovations. It's going to cost me either way.

Thank you for some valuable information and insight.
But I still question the amenities. If there was an outdoor pool when we signed on, don't they have to keep that same amenities? I only wanted it for the outdoor pool in the summer. Back in the day, that pool would be packed, now if I would go in the summer, I don't have an outdoor pool. I don't want to spend a nice summer day inside the rec. center.
Again, thanks for clearing up some of my other questions.
Oh one more thing, someone posted that supposedly they might only take back 100 deed buy backs. Do we know how many timeshare owners there are at Eagle Village?

 

[slarney77]

As per Frank when I spoke with him he said eagle village plans take 100 more feedback and see where they're at and they may take a hundred more I felt this was a pitch even though he is a separate entity he still gets some form of payment from a deed back I think eagle village personally will take as many deed backs as there are owners cuz it only benefits John oakes to be a majority owner of the timeshares