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Penn State

His public personna was that he is a good human being. His act of ignoring the child proves that he is not a good human being.

I'm not defending Joe Pa, he did a very "bad" thing by not pursuing the sexual abuse reported to him beyond reporting it to his superiors. But he is a "Human Being", as are we all, with acts of commission and omission to be regreted and amended. None of us are saints and to say Paterno's not a good human being is not a judgement to be made by another human being.
 
A big struggle for me with the situation, is not only the incident of 2002 not being addressed properly, but didn't the people that knew of it continue to see Sandusky around high risk youth? They had to know how heavily involved he was in the Second Mile organization If they didn't, they should have. I can't get past that. Just thinking that stopping it from happening in the Penn State locker rooms was good enough is pathetic, IMO.

Joe Paterno is a good person who made a bad decision. I agree his age/era played into that. A person in his position has more responsibilities than coaching a football team.

FYI - My Dad will be 85 years old this month, he does not think Paterno should have been fired. He attended Penn State but I don't think that has anything to do with his opinion. My Dad will state his opinion, but not discuss it (again, I think, typical for someone that age).
 
I'm not defending Joe Pa, he did a very "bad" thing by not pursuing the sexual abuse reported to him beyond reporting it to his superiors. But he is a "Human Being", as are we all, with acts of commission and omission to be regreted and amended. None of us are saints and to say Paterno's not a good human being is not a judgement to be made by another human being.

If that is true, than the judgement made by others that he is a good human being should not be made either. Can't have just one way.
 
Sorry folks, but why should the football team be penalized for the wrong doing of an x-coach?

Also, according to the state of Penn. law coach P follow the letter of the law by reporting the incident to his supervisor. He was not the one that saw the act taking place.

The victim are the children and we should never forget them.
 
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Pedro, I'd agree with you IF the story was only about Sandusky molesting one boy one time, and - maybe - if Paterno himself hadn't admitted that he "should have done more." But the scandal goes far beyond that, to an untold number of molestations over a period of years, supported by a culture fostered in that football program and probably encouraged (the culture, I mean, not Sandusky) by a revered Head Coach. That monster was allowed free reign to victims who were already disadvantaged and a place in which to practice his atrocities. This is WAY bigger than one incident, one perpetrator, and one report.
 
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Pedro,
I have trouble thinking about how lousy this is for the 80+ kids on the team and I'm torn because of that.

However, to me, the obvious answer is to eliminate the entire football program. Get rid of it and then in a few years or maybe 10 they should reconsider it. This is as big of a mess that I can remember for any athletic program at any level.

It will never happen because of all the money at stake. Actually, that's the real problem with all of this. People at all levels looked the other way becuase of the extreme financial impact to everyone. It makes me want to puke.
 
Yesterday I watched the game and couldn't help but think as the camera was panning over every face on the sideline, "did he know?" And although I'm not exactly proud to say that I wanted them to lose, I did want them to lose so that there wouldn't be an opportunity for the team to parade to Paterno's house and give him the game ball. That was their plan and the thought of it actually happening sickened me. He does not deserve any of those idolization moments any more.

The reason I think the team should not be allowed to take the field now is because there is still too much unknown surrounding who knew what, and when. As long as there is still one person involved with Penn State football - all the way through the ranks from the players to the university's administration - about whom you can look at and wonder, "did he know?," then the program shouldn't be allowed to continue as is. It needs to be purged.
 
In my opinion, this shows that many (especially sports, religious and scouting) organizations allow unfettered access to vulnerable youth. I would hope that their overseeing authorities would look closely at the 'leadership' to be sure that organizational loyalty doesn't upstage 'right.'

That said, I have no dog in this fight. No kids of my own. I am not nor have ever been, or are likely to ever be a youth leader of any stripe. I have said all I am saying on this abomination.

Seems to me that I read that there are to date, four separate investigations of this matter. We will become so sick of the details that- like learning on the news the finer details of oral sex in the late '90s- this whole affair will make man/boy sex common items of polite conversation. Yet another subject removed from the closet and placed before the court of public opinion.

If there were a hiatus of the football program after the current season, players could go to other institutions, coaches and administrators could seek employment elsewhere. It would be the price of turning a blind eye to betrayal of faith. A bonus: Penn State could benefit immeasurably by being noted for academic excellence, not sporting department misbehavior- which will be a post-script for years whenever Penn State is mentioned.

Jim
 
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$70,000,000 in profits every year is what that football program ADDED to the bottom line. Don't tell me those numbers DID NOT influence every decision at Penn State University. Full ride scholarships, salaries, equipment, offices, cars, recruiting, bonuses ==> this was BIG BUSINESS. It was elephant in the room and those kids were barely a mouse.

Maybe the Ivy League, Military academies, and Patriot League have it right. No scholarships for sports performance, no scouts, no special admissions, no special dorms, no special dining halls => you are a regular full credit course carrying student required to carry and PASS academic courses (not basket weaving 101 or sports psych 102).
 
The University of Chicago eliminated varsity sports many years ago. The lack of a football team had little impact on my urology residency and had little impact on my niece, when she attended The University of Chicago as an undergraduate. We never missed the Monsters of the Midway. We were too busy getting an education.

College sports seem to function as a farm league for professional football and professonal basketball. Winning football teams bring in lots of money. What is more important, a winning football team or the safety of children? What is more important, moral conviction and courage or booster donations? Follow the money trail.
 
If you eliminate football, men's basketball, and some other unique situations (women's basketball at UConn for example), none of the other sports make any money for the colleges at all including: wrestling, track, cross country, mens and women's gymnastics, swimming and diving, field hockey, soccer.....the list goes on and on. For these "Olympic" sports, the kids are generally treated like the rest of the student population.

I played division I baseball in college and didn't get a dime. We had to go to class, study hard, eat in the regular dining halls, stay in a dorm with other students, etc. The ONLY advantage that we got was the ability to sign up for classes early to accommodate our practice schedules (afternoons). To me that was a true student-athlete experience. I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Maybe the Ivy League, Military academies, and Patriot League have it right. No scholarships for sports performance, no scouts, no special admissions, no special dorms, no special dining halls => you are a regular full credit course carrying student required to carry and PASS academic courses (not basket weaving 101 or sports psych 102).
 
One of my daughters played softball for an NCAA Division III school. NCAA Division III cannot award athletic scholarships. She was injured playing softball and eventually quit playing. If she had been on an athletic scholarship, the decision would have been more complicated. I remember thinking how nice it was that she could make her decision based on academics, and how right that felt.
 
Sorry folks, but why should the football team be penalized for the wrong doing of an x-coach?

Also, according to the state of Penn. law coach P follow the letter of the law by reporting the incident to his supervisor. He was not the one that saw the act taking place.

Hey, you're right. No biggie. It was just horseplay between a couple guys. Why should anyone be getting their panties in a bunch about this. Let's go play some football, huh??:eek:
 
Sorry folks, but why should the football team be penalized for the wrong doing of an x-coach?

Also, according to the state of Penn. law coach P follow the letter of the law by reporting the incident to his supervisor. He was not the one that saw the act taking place.

The victim are the children and we should never forget them.

Hey, you're right. No biggie. It was just horseplay between a couple guys. Why should anyone be getting their panties in a bunch about this. Let's go play some football, huh??:eek:

Every single coach, administrator, etc who knew about it should go n-o-w. And yes, I'm changing my earlier tune a bit, as I've been convinced by Laura and others that there were plenty of opportunities to STOP it beyond simply reporting it up the chain of command and then looking the other way. Maybe that's all the law required.....but I now know that wasn't enough.

Then they could bring in interim coaches/staff from outside so the kids who are playing now and who (presumably) knew nothing could continue to play.

I doubt this'll happen.....but it'd be a way for the current students to not have to pay for the staff members' screw-ups.
 
... But there IS a difference between being an 'sibling' (presumably still a child), and a grown adult...

Sorry, very wrong assumption.

And yes, I did edit the original post for personal reasons. Perhaps, you can respect my position and edit your comments to respect my thoughts.
 
... But it's not like McQueary was going to suffer the same fate. ...

Laura, can you envision the long-term culture of "protect The Program at all costs," to which McQueary was born and in which he was raised? A culture which he finally bucked - as one of the lowest members - by demanding that his father help him, protect him while he stood up for what was right? It's obvious that you think any person would be enraged in the situation he found himself. Of course anyone would, no one disputes that! But just as I can understand why the parents of children molested by priests did not take matters into their own hands or beyond the holy borders imposed by the Catholic Church hierarchy, I can understand why McQueary may have been terrified at that moment to confront Sandusky himself. But he did immediately call his father from his office on campus and was told to go to his house, where he was somehow persuaded to take his concerns to Paterno the next day (possibly instead of what he wanted to do, get the police involved immediately?) As others have said, the actions that he did take are most likely responsible for exposing the cover-up. Do you really not see how he did what he may have thought was the only thing he could do?

Now I know this is all conjecture - obviously I don't know any more than you do about what McQueary was thinking or doing. But I can at least appreciate that he was in a situation that probably none of us have ever been in. Not just at that moment, but throughout his entire life. (And admittedly, I may be unfairly applying what happened in my childhood parish to what went on at Penn State. But I'll be very surprised to find that the similarities I see between the two don't actually exist.)
 
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.... can you envision the long-term culture of "protect The Program at all costs," to which McQueary was born and in which he was raised? A culture which he finally bucked - as one of the lowest members - by demanding that his father help him, protect him while he stood up for what was right?....)

I agree with your analysis. McQueary was born and raised in the The Program. His father was in The Program. There was only one team, one coach, one leader and he was a pupil of it all. No doubt the only people he ever dated, were part of that world of PSU also.

And, thanks.
 
Laura, can you envision the long-term culture of "protect The Program at all costs," to which McQueary was born and in which he was raised? A culture which he finally bucked - as one of the lowest members - by demanding that his father help him, protect him while he stood up for what was right? It's obvious that you think any person would be enraged in the situation he found himself. Of course anyone would, no one disputes that! But just as I can understand why the parents of children molested by priests did not take matters into their own hands or beyond the holy borders imposed by the Catholic Church hierarchy, I can understand why McQueary may have been terrified at that moment to confront Sandusky himself. But he did immediately call his father from his office on campus and was told to go to his house, where he was somehow persuaded to take his concerns to Paterno the next day (possibly instead of what he wanted to do, get the police involved immediately?) As others have said, the actions that he did take are most likely responsible for exposing the cover-up. Do you really not see how he did what he may have thought was the only thing he could do?

Now I know this is all conjecture - obviously I don't know any more than you do about what McQueary was thinking or doing. But I can at least appreciate that he was in a situation that probably none of us have ever been in. Not just at that moment, but throughout his entire life. (And admittedly, I may be unfairly applying what happened in my childhood parish to what went on at Penn State. But I'll be very surprised to find that the similarities I see between the two don't actually exist.)

Yes, I can see that culture. And I can also see that I would not be comfortable compromising my principles to stay in such a culture. But you are right. I am not he, and he is not me. Like someone else said, I can see this from the victim's perspective. I don't wish that on anyone, but I can tell you that that child (now a man) has never forgotten McQueary's face as he saw what he saw. He can close his eyes at any moment and see it. And he will always remember that McQueary did not do enough. I won't post on that point again, I think the horse has been killed and beaten enough.
 
Retired state pension for $27,500 MONTHLY is $330,000 YEARLY!!!!! As retirement pay!

Total BS. No wonder why the inner circle was so tight. It was ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!
 
Retired state pension for $27,500 MONTHLY is $330,000 YEARLY!!!!! As retirement pay!

Total BS. No wonder why the inner circle was so tight. It was ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!

Ditto, my thoughts exactly all along after I saw somewhere how much $$$$$$$ some of the football coaches are paid annually...
 
Why didn't that judge recuse himself? Is no one sane in handling this case?
And Spanier also had a hefty salary. Maybe $800,000? That is mind-boggling, because he can only put in 40 hours per week (or as many as any salaried college president anywhere) so why should he earn so much (which bottom line affected tuition etc. And sound judgment on coaches).
At publicly-funded institutions, salaries should not mimic private industry. The leaders should do their jobs to bring in money and keep operations running smoothly, and if they can't handle it, someone else will take their spots.
 
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