Penn State

[geekette]

Good grief. I think this is a little over the top. You want to punish students working their butts off at a tough college, many of whom never even go to a football game? The university has outstanding academic programs and THON. So the kids there today are now part of the problem?
And why punish Nebraska? There has to be some common sense here.

I'm with you.

Exactly how is the education diminished?

What possible reason could there be to distrust a student who simply made a choice to attend a university where there happened to be a scandal?

careful the baby doesn't go out with the bath water ...

 

[geekette]

I just read the Grand Jury pages and have one question...

What the #$%& was Mrs Sandusky thinking through all of this??...having kids sleep over. Didn't she know any of this was going on after all these years??? Just wondering.

I'm sure she knew. I think that she was like the others, shut up and keep living your life. Speak up and the standard of living you know goes POOF.

Wouldn't be the first wife to look the other way...

 

[DeniseM]

I'm sure she knew. I think that she was like the others, shut up and keep living your life. Speak up and the standard of living you know goes POOF.

Wouldn't be the first wife to look the other way...

As I posted earlier, she actually CALLED one of the victims before he was supposed to testify. There is no valid reason for her to do that.

 

[geekette]

The bad good way/bad way was about hiring students based on their colleges sports powers. That is the way I feel about it. I do not care to debate it as it is not important to this discussion. If I was to see a resume from a Penn state grad the first thing I would think of was them rioting.

wow. hope you are never a hiring manager. what a bad way to pick the right person for your staff, envisioning bad acts on the part of the applicant based on where they went to school. Simply ridiculous.

 

[geekette]

I don't think so, because Sandusky has been gone for a long time. My guess is that the current and recent students were clueless.

agree. I also doubt the "current players at the time" knew because weren't the children only around during their own events? I didn't get teh idea that this was happening all the time in the locker rooms.

 

[laurac260]

agree. I also doubt the "current players at the time" knew because weren't the children only around during their own events? I didn't get teh idea that this was happening all the time in the locker rooms.

The info is in the indictment. It is very graphic, so if you choose to ferret out the answers you are asking, you will be reading more than you bargain for. The children were around Sandusky all the time, at meetings, at pep rallies, to the games, when he travelled, it seems as though he took them with him every time he went somewhere. Sandusky didn't just vanish when he "retired" in 99. He continued to be a part of the fabric of Penn State. He also was a volunteer coach at a local high school, where he had unfettered access to his "boys". I'm not sure what "all the time" means, but he "showered" with the boys pretty frequently it appears.

 

[geekette]

As long as there is still one person involved with Penn State football - all the way through the ranks from the players to the university's administration - about whom you can look at and wonder, "did he know?," then the program shouldn't be allowed to continue as is. It needs to be purged.

Disagree. Wonder is not evidence.

I would sue for wrongful firing if I lost my job because someone thought I "should have known" there was an embezzler in accounting when I have nothing at all to do with accounting.

 

[ace2000]

He also was a volunteer coach at a local high school, where he had unfettered access to his "boys".

Should we shut down the high school too? There were very serious events that took place here... let's try and think rationally about this.

Also, some on here are making the presumption that 'everyone' knew. Well 'everyone' did not know... I agree with the others that say leave the football program as it stands now, it's overkill to shut down the entire football program. Don't worry, they'll pay a huge price on this one for a very long time.

 

[geekette]

The info is in the indictment. It is very graphic, so if you choose to ferret out the answers you are asking, you will be reading more than you bargain for. The children were around Sandusky all the time, at meetings, at pep rallies, to the games, when he travelled, it seems as though he took them with him every time he went somewhere. Sandusky didn't just vanish when he "retired" in 99. He continued to be a part of the fabric of Penn State. He also was a volunteer coach at a local high school, where he had unfettered access to his "boys". I'm not sure what "all the time" means, but he "showered" with the boys pretty frequently it appears.

I'm choosing to not read it, so thank you for clarifying. I did not understand fully what the at-risk program entailed and did not imagine it to be ... so ... * full time *

 

[SueDonJ]

Disagree. Wonder is not evidence.

I would sue for wrongful firing if I lost my job because someone thought I "should have known" there was an embezzler in accounting when I have nothing at all to do with accounting.

Should we shut down the high school too? There were very serious events that took place here... let's try and think rationally about this.

Also, some on here are making the presumption that 'everyone' knew. Well 'everyone' did not know... I agree with the others that say leave the football program as it stands now, it's overkill to shut down the entire football program. Don't worry, they'll pay a huge price on this one for a very long time.

I'm choosing to not read it, so thank you for clarifying. I did not understand fully what the at-risk program entailed and did not imagine it to be ... so ... * full time *

That's why I have such a problem with the football program continuing as is right now. In addition to what Laura said, there are reports that Sandusky was using the Penn State facilities as late as a week before he was arrested on November 5th. When he was forced to "retire" back in 1999, he retained "coach emeritus" status and was allowed continued access to the facilities. In effect all they did back in 1999 was slap his wrist while letting him continue what he'd been doing. Maybe they thought that the formal "retirement" would absolve them legally down the line when/if the scandal broke? I don't know, but their concern was definitely NOT with Sandusky's victims.

There simply isn't any way to know right now how many, if any, current members at all levels of the Penn State football program know what has been covered up for all these years. Certainly the various reports make it appear that all of the remaining staff and players are not innocent. If the emphasis should be placed right now on Sandusky's victims, which I think is what we all believe, then how is it possible for us to be okay with the possibility that there are people aware of the cover-up who are still active in the program, and how is it possible that we can think the ability of the players to take the field is more important than the victims' healing process?

I agree, I really do, that there must be innocent people in that program and it's not fair that they could be made to suffer in order for the university to do the right thing for the victims. But "collateral damage" occurs whenever a scandal like this is unearthed. That's only the least of the sad facts involved here.

 

[laurac260]

That's why I have such a problem with the football program continuing as is right now. In addition to what Laura said, there are reports that Sandusky was using the Penn State facilities as late as a week before he was arrested on November 5th. When he was forced to "retire" back in 1999, he retained "coach emeritus" status and was allowed continued access to the facilities. In effect all they did back in 1999 was slap his wrist while letting him continue what he'd been doing. Maybe they thought that the formal "retirement" would absolve them legally down the line when/if the scandal broke? I don't know, but their concern was definitely NOT with Sandusky's victims.

There simply isn't any way to know right now how many, if any, current members at all levels of the Penn State football program know what has been covered up for all these years. Certainly the various reports make it appear that all of the remaining staff and players are not innocent. If the emphasis should be placed right now on Sandusky's victims, which I think is what we all believe, then how is it possible for us to be okay with the possibility that there are people aware of the cover-up who are still active in the program, and how is it possible that we can think the ability of the players to take the field is more important than the victims' healing process?

I agree, I really do, that there must be innocent people in that program and it's not fair that they could be made to suffer in order for the university to do the right thing for the victims. But "collateral damage" occurs whenever a scandal like this is unearthed. That's only the least of the sad facts involved here.

There's a whole lot of things in this to be disgusted about, several people who saw questionable things but one thing that really bothers me in the indictment was that in 2002, when it was reported to Penn State "authorities" about Sandusky having sex in the locker room with the boy (this is what was witnessed by McQueary by his own testimony), that Curley handled it by telling Sandusky he was not allowed to bring youth with him to the athletic facilities any more. Really???? Boy, that sure fixes everything, right? In other words, continue your practices on your own time, don't bring your dirty laundry here.

Now we find out that the judge who let Sandusky out on bail was a contributor to his charity organization. Who DIDN'T the guy have in his pocket? It really makes me wonder, are people covering for him to protect the Penn State program, or did they give him coach emeritus status, access to the facility, a nice pension plan, etc, because he had dirt on someone(s)?

 

[ampaholic]

wow. hope you are never a hiring manager. what a bad way to pick the right person for your staff, envisioning bad acts on the part of the applicant based on where they went to school. Simply ridiculous.

Wow, I hope not either. I went to school at UC Berkeley from 1969 - 73, how would that prejudice you? (one can only imagine).

:hysterical: (geez, dad said I should go to Cal Tech).

 

[Steve]

What happened at Penn State is an inexcusable tragedy. I support the recent actions of the Board of Trustees. Firing the university president and the football coach are pretty significant steps.

In addition, there are multiple investigations going on. The new long term football coach and university president will likely...and hopefully...be from outside the Penn State community to bring in some new blood and help reform the "good old boy culture" that has existed there. (I doubt that the current interim coach and president will get the jobs permanently.)

In the meantime, I think that some people in the media and here on TUG have gotten a bit carried away. The victims need to helped, and they need time to heal. So does the entire Penn State community.

Shutting down the football program, blackballing Penn State graduates when hiring, and going on witch hunts to try to find and punish every single person who knew/should have known some of what was happening are not actions that will bring healing. They are actions that will tear the community farther apart.

Indeed, I'm sure there are at least a few people in the town of State College, PA who are not affiliated with the football program, Penn State, The Second Mile Charity, or even the high school where Sandusky spent time...yet knew what he was doing and didn't speak up. How can we punish them? Should we shut down the entire town of State College, throw everyone out, put up a fence, and declare it uninhabitable for the next 10 years? (Kind of like a nuclear accident zone.) Would that be enough?

What happened was a terrible moral failing and a tragedy for everyone involved...especially the victims. However, you can't bring back the age of innocence by overkill now. That will only cause increased bitterness, divide the community, and make things worse. (Look what happened after World War I.) It's time for healing and for moving forward in a positive direction.

Let Penn State play football. Let the students and faculty and alumni and fans live their lives. Never let them forget they have a moral responsibility to do the right thing. And let's...each of us...recommit to living our own values instead of picking apart Penn State endlessly.

Steve

 

[SueDonJ]

There's a whole lot of things in this to be disgusted about, several people who saw questionable things but one thing that really bothers me in the indictment was that in 2002, when it was reported to Penn State "authorities" about Sandusky having sex in the locker room with the boy (this is what was witnessed by McQueary by his own testimony), that Curley handled it by telling Sandusky he was not allowed to bring youth with him to the athletic facilities any more. Really???? Boy, that sure fixes everything, right? In other words, continue your practices on your own time, don't bring your dirty laundry here.

Now we find out that the judge who let Sandusky out on bail was a contributor to his charity organization. Who DIDN'T the guy have in his pocket? It really makes me wonder, are people covering for him to protect the Penn State program, or did they give him coach emeritus status, access to the facility, a nice pension plan, etc, because he had dirt on someone(s)?

I agree, Laura, anything's possible here. It seems every time you look at the situation from a different angle, you're left wondering if it will ever end or if there ever was a moment when someone other than any of the victims' parents stood up 100% for what is right and decent. There's not one person about whom we can say "s/he did the right thing, no question."

 

[CapriciousC]

At least in Michigan, where I live, college employees are not mandated reporters. This is because college jobs typically do not involve contact with children. In the 15 years I taught at colleges (plus several years as a graduate assistant), I was never given any sort of training on what to do if I witnessed or heard of a crime. (Administrators are supposed to report crimes that have taken place, but there are no reporting requirements for rank-and-file employees.) I think this lack of training for college employees is another sign that administrators don't really care about stopping crimes on their campuses. I am not trying to excuse any of the Penn State employees, where the crime involved was extremely severe and it should have been obvious that the police needed to be notified. However, I do believe colleges should be more pro-active and train their employees about what to do if they suspect a crime has occurred, especially since not all crimes are as clear-cut as the ones at Penn State. Hopefully, the Penn State situation will make colleges take crimes more seriously.

Agreed - when I taught at a state university in California, professors were not classified as "mandatory reporters" (with the exception of those in the education/counseling/psychology fields who held state licenses). I believe that this is a problem. In a perfect world, such laws wouldn't be required, but then, we obviously don't live in a perfect world. We had a rash of sexual assaults on female students one semester that I was teaching, and the administration urged us all to discuss the events with our students and give them some safety guidelines. However, we were never given any instructions as to what we "should" do if we witnessed the abuse of a child. My default reaction would be to contact the police and/or CPS, but I think that I think that way because a number of my friends are secondary school teachers. When my husband and I were discussing this news over the weekend, he said his first thought would have been to notify the chain of command at the university. I personally think he's wrong about this, but I think it's one of those areas between what is required per policy and what one should do ethically and morally.

 

[Patri]

Let Penn State play football. Let the students and faculty and alumni and fans live their lives. Never let them forget they have a moral responsibility to do the right thing. And let's...each of us...recommit to living our own values instead of picking apart Penn State endlessly.

Steve

Thanks Steve, for a wise and calm post.

 

[am1]

It happens all the time. Graduates do or do not get jobs based on the university they attended.

I am pretty sure Penn State "sold" the Penn State name in the past.

Seeing students rioting because a football coach was fire with cause is a black eye on the university as a whole.

They had the opportunity to show everyone that they did not agree with what on but choose to riot instead.

It is quite likely Paterno did not know how bad this was as he never retired earlier. It was hard to even say he was the head coach the last few years. He already passed BB as the winningest college coach. Unless his Ego was just way too big to let go or he stayed on so his son would continue to have a job with the program.

The moment of silence at the game was a little off. Thats the one thing the kids never needed. It was nice to see the players meet up before and after the game. Its too bad they were drawn into this mess.

Even at a mid major school in a lower sport on a bad team life as a DI student-athlete is great.

I would think that every school breaks the NCAA rules but Penn State has gone way above and beyond even Miami, Ohio State and SMU. The NCAA has too many rules but one this should add is moral decency.

Wow, I hope not either. I went to school at UC Berkeley from 1969 - 73, how would that prejudice you? (one can only imagine).

:hysterical: (geez, dad said I should go to Cal Tech).

 

[geoand]

What happened at Penn State is an inexcusable tragedy. I support the recent actions of the Board of Trustees. Firing the university president and the football coach are pretty significant steps.

In addition, there are multiple investigations going on. The new long term football coach and university president will likely...and hopefully...be from outside the Penn State community to bring in some new blood and help reform the "good old boy culture" that has existed there. (I doubt that the current interim coach and president will get the jobs permanently.)

In the meantime, I think that some people in the media and here on TUG have gotten a bit carried away. The victims need to helped, and they need time to heal. So does the entire Penn State community.

Shutting down the football program, blackballing Penn State graduates when hiring, and going on witch hunts to try to find and punish every single person who knew/should have known some of what was happening are not actions that will bring healing. They are actions that will tear the community farther apart.

Indeed, I'm sure there are at least a few people in the town of State College, PA who are not affiliated with the football program, Penn State, The Second Mile Charity, or even the high school where Sandusky spent time...yet knew what he was doing and didn't speak up. How can we punish them? Should we shut down the entire town of State College, throw everyone out, put up a fence, and declare it uninhabitable for the next 10 years? (Kind of like a nuclear accident zone.) Would that be enough?

What happened was a terrible moral failing and a tragedy for everyone involved...especially the victims. However, you can't bring back the age of innocence by overkill now. That will only cause increased bitterness, divide the community, and make things worse. (Look what happened after World War I.) It's time for healing and for moving forward in a positive direction.

Let Penn State play football. Let the students and faculty and alumni and fans live their lives. Never let them forget they have a moral responsibility to do the right thing. And let's...each of us...recommit to living our own values instead of picking apart Penn State endlessly.

Steve

Certainly understand and respect your opinion. I also agree with much of it. However, I think all people who were involved in the coverup need to be identified. That is only fair to those who were injured in such a horrible fashion. I also think that all those who knew about the horrible acts need to be identified.

 

[bogey21]

I'm absolutely outraged that McQueary DIDN'T STOP IT while he witnessed it........How in the world could someone see that happen and not attempt to stop it!?!?!?! Complete coward in my book, yes I don't know the whole story but I know enough of it to say YOU HAVE to protect an innocent child

McQueary sent an email to friends saying the truth is not out and that he did stop it. Maybe you should wait and see what the facts are before you crucify him.

George

 

[pjrose]

McQueary sent an email to friends saying the truth is not out and that he did stop it. Maybe you should wait and see what the facts are before you crucify him.

George

Is that email available somewhere online?

 

[easyrider]

Wow, I hope not either. I went to school at UC Berkeley from 1969 - 73, how would that prejudice you? (one can only imagine).

:hysterical: (geez, dad said I should go to Cal Tech).

We all know what goes on at Berkeley.......... Your on the list.

 

[DeniseM]

Is that email available somewhere online?

Here is the new report - http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/c...sky-alleged-sex-abuse-shower-article-1.977525

 

[e.bram]

Security at Penn State are the police. it is a state institution.

 

[Sandi Bo]

Thanks for posting the link Denise.

Even if he did stop that particular incident, what's he been doing the last 9 years?

 

[Mel]

Here is the new report - http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/c...sky-alleged-sex-abuse-shower-article-1.977525

If you click through on another story, about the resignation of the CEO of Second Mile, at the end of that story there is this quote:

The Patriot-News of Harrisburg reports that McQueary is consulting with an attorney after being placed on paid administrative leave following death threats about his testimony against Sandusky.

Perhaps that is partly why he didn't take things any further than reporting to his superiors as he did. He did not have a legal obligation to report directly himself, and if there are death threats now, there probably would have been then too - particularly if he was the catalyst that ultimately brought Sandusky down.