Penn State

[Kal]

...Now in McQueary's case.... I envision that encounter probably much differently than you do, something along the lines of, "For the love of GOD, Dad, I SAW him! I SAW HIM! You have to help me here, it was a BOY!" (Probably with a few f-bombs thrown in but this is TUG.) McQueary is second-generation Penn State - his dad played for Paterno. I think his Dad managed to calm him down and convince him to not go to the authorities but instead to Paterno the next day....

I think McQueary was really frightened mostly about his future career. If he personally took action, and knowing the institution of PS football, he would be dead meat, not only at PS but also in the national football scene. So the 20 yo went to his dad. No help there as he was even more buried in the sacred institution of PS football. He had to respond, so he said something to JoPa and called it a day. He was now clear and his football future was safe.

Next sickening moment will be the student and alumni reaction on Saturday. Does anybody really believe that the team was unaware of what was going on? Away from the locker room you could only imagine how the chit-chat propagated - "don't tell anybody but here is something about coach you won't believe...."

It's always about protecting the institution and most importantly about the football legacy.

 

[TSchmidt]

I just saw the interview of Victim #1's mother. Okay, call me the suspicious type, but if a couch were wanting to spend that much time with my son, all sorts of red flags would go up.

Spending the night numerous times? Going out of town with him? Plus all the phone calls. That would never happen in my house. That mother fell down on her job. I might let him go over once, but not if he were the only kid there. Would any of you other mothers let this happen without many, many questions??

There were lots of instances where this could have been stopped. Too many people overlooked suspicious things. Very sad.

 

[SueDonJ]

One talk show that I listened to brought up an interesting point about Joe Paterno, who is over 80 years old. He grew up in a generation that was less aware of issues like child molestation, and found them extremely embarrassing and difficult to deal with, and something that was not discussed openly. If that was his mind-set, it may have seemed like this was too indecent for public discussion, and the best way was to quietly report it to administration, and let them handle it privately.

I don't agree with that, obviously, but it does make sense. I mean, think about an 80+ member of your family - can you discuss child molestation with them? How would they react? If my own mom was alive, she would be about 80, and a topic like that would be too indecent to even discuss, for her.

I think there's definitely something to that, Denise. Once more correlating to the pedophile priest scandal, the overriding question at the time was how could the parents have kept silent? The majority of those victims had reported the incidents to their own parents who in turn contacted the priests' superiors at the parish level. It sounds mind-boggling, doesn't it, that PARENTS wouldn't involve outside police authorities when their OWN children were victims!? But between the stigma and embarrassment of child molestation that was prevalant among that generation, and the absolute power that the local priests held in their neighborhoods combined with the absolute autonomy that the Catholic Church hierarchy held, it was possible for the parents to be forgiven their misguided loyalties. I often wonder, too, if my parents had been alive when the scandal finally broke, would they have discussed it with us or been embarrassed by us asking about it. It seems impossible that they wouldn't have at least been aware of the rumors among the adults at the time - several victims were family friends.

They say in some areas of the country College Football is a religion. In the northeast that was never a part of our culture but I sure am beginning to see now how it can be the truth.

 

[ace2000]

The actions of the president, the VP, Paterno, and/or McQueary can easily be explained... think about it. They were all trying to protect their beloved university and football program. Each of them knew that if they took a bold stance on this matter the damage that could cause.

There are some on here that want to boldly state what they would do if they were in the same situation as any of these men. Well, I don't think any of us know for sure how we would react in the same situation. It's very easy to say something anonymously on an internet forum.

In my mind there is one person who stood up and stopped the whole charade... and that was McQueary. I believe it took courage for him to tell the truth to the grand jury. Yes, I also feel he should have stopped the incident he witnessed, but I'm going to give that young man a ton of credit for what he did do afterwards.

 

[siesta]

This and the DA who was on the verge of bringing up charges disappeared in '05 without a trace, his laptop with crushed hard drive fished out of the Susquehanna. He was just declared dead this year. No suspects. Curious, no?

Jim

what makes you say the Prosecutor was "on the verge of bringing up charges" against Sandusky before he dissapeared? The prosecutor who dissapeared in 2005, was the same one who DIDNT pursue charges against Sandusky in 1998 for showering and "hugging" a child that ended up causing him (Sandusky) to have to retire in 1999. The current charges against Sandusky incude this 1998 incident as well as 7 other victims I believe.

Investigators see no link between DA's 2005 disappearance and '98 Sandusky probe
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...ndusky-probe/2011/11/11/gIQAbeNhCN_story.html

If there is any suspicion regarding the DA's disappearance, its that someone harmed him for NOT pursuing charges. Your implication that a University cover up ensued that also caused a probing DA to be murdered as part of that cover up is fiction fit for Hollywood.

 

[Elan]

I think McQueary was really frightened mostly about his future career. If he personally took action, and knowing the institution of PS football, he would be dead meat, not only at PS but also in the national football scene.

Don't agree. He was a 28yo GA. In the college football world, being a GA means his duties could have been as insignificant as making sure the uniforms got washed every week, and his pay was probably pretty meager.

IOW, he wasn't throwing away a great job, and at age 28 he certainly had enough time to recover from any negative repercussions. Not at PSU, perhaps, but almost certainly elsewhere.

 

[rapmarks]

from something I read, Sandusky was seen in the showers with the child in 2003, 4 years after he retired. what is he doing in the showers when he no longer works there. It is hard to believe that powerful men were unwilling to do anything to stop the abuse. They certainly can't condone tht behavior, pedofiles are not even safe in prison.

As far as the parents of the child, there was a letter in an advice column just this week. The daughter stayed with her cousin and her uncle came in the room and made advances. she was 9 years old and fought him off, told her parents. The father does not want to tell his sister what the husband did. the mother wants to report it. how many times is this repeated all over the place?

 

[SueDonJ]

I just saw the interview of Victim #1's mother. Okay, call me the suspicious type, but if a couch were wanting to spend that much time with my son, all sorts of red flags would go up.

Spending the night numerous times? Going out of town with him? Plus all the phone calls. That would never happen in my house. That mother fell down on her job. I might let him go over once, but not if he were the only kid there. Would any of you other mothers let this happen without many, many questions??

There were lots of instances where this could have been stopped. Too many people overlooked suspicious things. Very sad.

What are the statistics? I think I heard Dr. Phil say the other day on CNN that "Stranger Danger" accounts for only 10% of child molestation incidents, and 1-in-4 girls and 1-in-6 boys will be victims. That means that there are a whole lot of victims out there who are suffering at the hands of people who are entrusted to care for them by the parents. Very sad is right.

 

[brigechols]

In my mind there is one person who stood up and stopped the whole charade... and that was McQueary. I believe it took courage for him to tell the truth to the grand jury.

In my opinion, the grand jury testimony of Victim 1, Victim 3, Victim 4, Victim 5, Victim 6, and Victim 7 exposed the wrongdoing of Sardusky and PSU administrators. I hope that Victim 1 and Victim 8 are alive and willing to come forward.

 

[sstamm]

I just saw the interview of Victim #1's mother. Okay, call me the suspicious type, but if a couch were wanting to spend that much time with my son, all sorts of red flags would go up.

Spending the night numerous times? Going out of town with him? Plus all the phone calls. That would never happen in my house. That mother fell down on her job. I might let him go over once, but not if he were the only kid there. Would any of you other mothers let this happen without many, many questions??

There were lots of instances where this could have been stopped. Too many people overlooked suspicious things. Very sad.

I would certainly have asked a lot of questions, and I can't imagine allowing my child to spend the night or go out of town, but I don't know the mom's circumstances. Is she a single parent? I only ask because, initially, I'm sure this all seemed very positive- a big football coach mentoring your child, taking him places, access to cool things like PSU football. Wasn't Sandusky married? So his wife was at home too? Seems ok, right? Pedophiles are experienced in making victims (and maybe their families) seem comfortable with the access, so that once they start making moves, it becomes confusing for the victims, and many feel guilty or like it's their fault. Never underestimate the ability of career pedophiles to manipulate.

The mom of one of the victims did question, the first time her son came home with wet hair, and she found out they'd showered. She reported it to University Police. This was in the late 1990's. Supposedly Univ. Police investigated, interviewed Sandusky, who admitted he showered naked with the boy and hugged him. Eventually, the investigation was closed and the Centre County District Attorney decided there would be no criminal charges. (That was the DA who later disappeared, which is a whole other thing.)
WHAT????

So many times the ball was dropped, and not just by Paterno and the football staff.

 

[Mel]

I'm trying to be careful not to judge the grad asst. and the janitor who witnessed Sandusky too harshly. Yes, they should have done something. But whistle-blowers are not always taken seriously. That is why someone in authority (i.e. Paterno) should have used his authority to make sure that something was done. If Curley and Schultz didn't act, Paterno should have followed up with the police. But he didn't. At the very least, a disappointment that he didn't do the right thing. But I'm afraid that it will come out that his inaction was motivated by a deeper involvement in a cover up.

I can't judge the Graduate Assitant, or the mother if Victim 1, but the rest deserve what they get.

The GA was a student, not an employee. He probably was not required to report, though even if he was, the requirement was to report to his supervisor - that would be Paterno. Consider the position we know he was in, as well as the position he might have been in. We know he witnessed Sandusky - and that Sandusky and the victim saw him. There was the 1999 case, so it is possible that he had already hear rumors about him, and what he witnessed confirmed them. Given what we've seen of the students supporting Paterno, can you honestly say his career wouldn't have been over before it even started, if he had gone over Paterno's head?

He was a Graduate Assistant. If he went over Paterno's head, he would lose what little link he had to the football program, and may have risked his education. I know, that doesn't mean much to the victims, but he probably thought any action would be in vain - Sandusky and Paterno were powerful men. There had already been allegation in 1998, and those only resulted in forcing his retirement. In his shoes, would you really expect a new case 4 years later to result in a different outcome?

As for the mother, she was a single mother, needing a male role model for her son. This was a father figure taking an interest in her son. His involvement started through an organization set up for that purpose - to provide a role model for at-risk boys. She trusted those who introduced her son to Sandusky. If the schools vouched for him, the university vouched for him, he was a respected and trusted powerful member of the community. Why would she not trust him with her son? He had similar standing to the priests in Boston and elsewhere.

I also wonder about Sandusky's wife - so many mentions of him attending events with these boys, and her being absent. While she might not be interested in the events, I would think after the 1998 allegations that she might want to keep a closer watch on his activities. Where does she fit in all this? I can't imagine she knew nothing of what was going on, yet she too was a victim of a different sort, in denial all these years.

 

[ace2000]

In my opinion, the grand jury testimony of Victim 1, Victim 3, Victim 4, Victim 5, Victim 6, and Victim 7 exposed the wrongdoing of Sardusky and PSU administrators. I hope that Victim 1 and Victim 8 are alive and willing to come forward.

The testimony of the victims brought Sandusky down. However, it was McQueary's testimony that brought down the President, the VP, and Paterno. And in the future will cause serious damage to the university.

Think about the difference. That's my point. It took guts for him to tell the truth.

 

[Kal]

... think about an 80+ member of your family - can you discuss child molestation with them? How would they react? If my own mom was alive, she would be about 80, and a topic like that would be too indecent to even discuss, for her.

As a test, I talked to an 80+ member of my family and his comment was:

"...there's always some blabbermouth around..."

Totally an out of touch generation.

 

[DeniseM]

I also wonder about Sandusky's wife - so many mentions of him attending events with these boys, and her being absent. While she might not be interested in the events, I would think after the 1998 allegations that she might want to keep a closer watch on his activities. Where does she fit in all this? I can't imagine she knew nothing of what was going on, yet she too was a victim of a different sort, in denial all these years.

Actually, it has been widely reported that the Grand Jury report says that Sandusky's wife called victim #7 BEFORE he was set to testify, along with two other calls from Sandusky, and a friend of Sandusky. There can be no good reason for those calls.

Even more chilling, Sandusky and his wife have 6 adopted children - some of whom were adopted as older children. They also had 5 foster children.

A Time Reporter has reported the following:

Sandusky's former daughter-in-law is taking no chances. The mother of Sandusky's grandchildren — ages 5, 7 and 9 — obtained a court order Tuesday prohibiting Sandusky from unsupervised visits with his grandchildren and barring overnights at Grandpa's.

 

[laurac260]

There are some on here that want to boldly state what they would do if they were in the same situation as any of these men. Well, I don't think any of us know for sure how we would react in the same situation. It's very easy to say something anonymously on an internet forum.

Here I must beg to differ with you. I know firsthand what it is like to be a child and have grownups, on multiple occasions, (friends, family and total strangers), witness my abuse while they looked the other way. Not to the extent of this, but I can tell you, in the eyes of a child there is nothing more crushing than looking in the eyes of an adult you were taught to trust, looking in the eyes of someone who you thought was like a superhero (a grownup to a little kid is someone who is going to SAVE THEM) while another adult is abusing you, and having them avert their eyes and pretend they didn't see it. Why, because it made them uncomfortable? Because they don't want to get involved? Because the person doing the abusing is their brother, or "friend" and they don't want to affect their relationship?

So emphatically YES, I can tell you what I would do, what I have done, when I witness a child being abused. I stand up. I speak out. I don't care who hears me, I don't care what the person doing the abusing has to say. I will intervene. I will call the police. I have done it and will again if I have to. Until you walk in that child's shoes you will never know what it is like to be them. I do. It sucks. And I could not look at myself in the mirror if I didn't stand up for a child, like no one stood up for me. So how McQueary looks at himself in the mirror every day is beyond me. Sorry if that sounds sanctimonious, but it is what it is.

So, there, in a nutshell is why I feel so impassioned about this subject. I know what it's like to be witnessed, and I also know what it's like to have someone, a grown up, touch me inappropriately and have adults sweep it under the rug. The act is long gone. The way it was handled and dismissed never, ever leaves you.

 

[Patri]

Penn state grads may have trouble getting a job in the future. I would question their judgement and priorities if I was the one hiring.

I think the game saturday should be cancelled, played at another site or in an empty stadium.

Good grief. I think this is a little over the top. You want to punish students working their butts off at a tough college, many of whom never even go to a football game? The university has outstanding academic programs and THON. So the kids there today are now part of the problem?
And why punish Nebraska? There has to be some common sense here.

 

[laurac260]

McQueary has been placed on admin leave. That's a start. He should have done more. Hopefully he realizes that now and if he is ever faced in a similar situation (god forbid), he will choose the right path the next time.

Meanwhile I read the indictment. Lots of people looked the other way. Truly sad.

 

[am1]

Good grief. I think this is a little over the top. You want to punish students working their butts off at a tough college, many of whom never even go to a football game? The university has outstanding academic programs and THON. So the kids there today are now part of the problem?
And why punish Nebraska? There has to be some common sense here.

Not at all. Students are violently protesting the firing of a man who help cover up sexual abuse and whatever else comes out. College graduates are hired based on the history of the schools athletic programs. Even the Ivys. The Ivys are the Ivys because they were together for sports. Now major college sports have passed them by but that is how those school are who they are today. Schools care more about how they are aligned athletically then athletically. Any school interested in the SEC has to weigh this but both A&M and Mizzou decided to join a lesser academic conference for sports and money and prestige.

If a team has a good sports run the previous year the the alummni are more likely to be hired.

I am not saying if this is a good or bad way to hire but is the facts. I am saying that not hiring individuals based on bad acts said students have done collectively is fair.

For entry level jobs I really do not believe much matters in who is hired.

There are a few exceptions MIT, Cal tech who have never been judged on their athletics.

It is not about Nebraska being punished. It is not even about punishing Penn State. (I will not make a call on if their season should be cancelled). It is about their safety. Numerous riots have occurred in the past in college as well as pro sports. For reasons or no reasons. Also in my sole opinion it is not having to get involved with this. Any pre and post game questions are going to be about how they feel/felt and dealt with the situation. That is a lot to ask for 18 - 22 year olds. They are not compensated enough and have other issues to deal with. School assignments are the first that come to mind. But family, relationships are others.

It is also about Penn State University having more important things to deal with them a football game that takes over the campus and town.


For everyone reading, college athletics is a whole different world. It is amazing the amount of gossip that goes on. How much loyalty there is and as well as how many "violations" occur. Even when it comes to non important teams in non important sports at non important schools.

 

[KarenLK]

I just read the Grand Jury pages and have one question...

What the #$%& was Mrs Sandusky thinking through all of this??...having kids sleep over. Didn't she know any of this was going on after all these years??? Just wondering.

 

[MOXJO7282]

Yes, this is chilling and one cannot help but link it to a much larger cover up.

I hope that those who are guilty of these acts and those of not reporting or not following up at Penn State, end up in the State Pen.

I would bet many, many knew of this and said nothing, including the campus police. This was a massive coverup that we've only heard the tip of the iceberg I believe.

 

[laurac260]

I just read the Grand Jury pages and have one question...

What the #$%& was Mrs Sandusky thinking through all of this??...having kids sleep over. Didn't she know any of this was going on after all these years??? Just wondering.

Mrs. Sandusky, the other coaches who saw him traveling with little boys all the time, bringing them to his meetings, taking them on jaunts, to movies, to games, having them sleep over in his house, IN his hotel rooms. It's one thing to mentor young boys. It's another thing to constantly have the 10 year old "flavor of the month" at your side. Who brings little boys to their meetings? Didn't ANYONE think this was odd?? THEY weren't spending countless hours with little boys. Why was HE???

 

[SueDonJ]

Everything he did was overlooked by the witnesses and covered up by the folks who held the power. His victims, the young boys who probably number in the hundreds when you consider that he began his Second Mile foundation back in 1977, were all sacrificed to protect The Penn State Football Program.

THAT'S why the team should not be allowed to finish out this season, and why the school should not be allowed to field a team at all until every single person who holds a position in the football program or on the board is removed from that position. Every game that is played and every power position that remains as is, is a slap in the face to the victims who were sacrificed for the program.

 

[laurac260]

tomorrow's game

I just checked the schedule for the game tomorrow. It is set to air on ESPN at noon. Now that atleast one sponsor has pulled out (cars.com), and atleast one other "thinking about it", I wonder will ESPN air the game? I'm sure they've discussed this very thing.

Meanwhile, in Happy Valley, (found on ESPN.co )...Sam Stellatella, a three-position player in the 1950s, has donated money to Sandusky's defense and urged other former players to do the same.

"I told him he's going to need a million dollars to defend himself," the 73-year-old Stellatella said. "He called me back and said, 'What am I going to do with this money?' I said, 'Use it for your lawyer because you're going to need it.' "

Stellatella sent Sandusky $100. He wrote personal letters to other members of the 1959 Liberty Bowl team that defeated a Bear Bryant-coached Alabama team and asked they also donate. He does not know how much money was raised.

"I know some of the guys sent money," Stellatella told The Associated Press. "Here's the thing, these are horrendous charges against him. But he's still entitled to his day in court. Everybody's prejudged him. He's done horrendous damage to Paterno and (athletic director Tim) Curley and the football program. I don't listen to the news and I don't read the reports of what he did because I would get too upset.

"But he's still entitled to his day in court."

That's a lone stance among a group of players who have been quick to distance themselves from Sandusky.

Brad Benson, a former Penn State offensive lineman who won a Super Bowl with the New York Giants, was not invited to attend the game. He said he wouldn't go anyway -- and had no problem with his fellow former Nittany Lions presenting a unified front -- as long as they remembered the true victims of this case.

"I sure wouldn't want it be a show of solidarity for Joe," he said.

Benson spoke in anger about Paterno's actions and, more troubling, the reaction of unruly students who toppled a television news van, rioted and attempted arson after a peaceful demonstration Wednesday night turned ugly.

"There are people right now that are supporting Joe. They are rioting and doing things they shouldn't be doing," he said. "I equate these students that are rioting to the occupiers on New York City right now. They're not mature enough to understand why they're rioting. They weren't there when this happened. What are they protesting? They're protesting that someone with a tremendous responsibility failed to fulfill his moral responsibility, and other people failed as well."

Sources told ESPN that as a way to possibly honor Paterno, some current Penn State players have discussed bringing a game ball to the fired coach's house if the team defeats Nebraska.

For whatever it's worth.

 

[ricoba]

One talk show that I listened to brought up an interesting point about Joe Paterno, who is over 80 years old. He grew up in a generation that was less aware of issues like child molestation, and found them extremely embarrassing and difficult to deal with, and something that was not discussed openly. If that was his mind-set, it may have seemed like this was too indecent for public discussion, and the best way was to quietly report it to administration, and let them handle it privately.

I don't agree with that, obviously, but it does make sense. I mean, think about an 80+ member of your family - can you discuss child molestation with them? How would they react? If my own mom was alive, she would be about 80, and a topic like that would be too indecent to even discuss, for her.

I think I could easily speak with my 84 year old Mother & 85 year old Dad about this.

While they have come from the same generation as Paterno, I think they are fully aware that if they become aware of something wrong happening, they wouldn't just cover it up.

I can also imagine my Dad beating the hell out of Sandusky if he had seen the shower incident that McQueary saw! (if he were a bit younger )

 

[Patri]

I am not saying if this is a good or bad way to hire but is the facts. I am saying that not hiring individuals based on bad acts said students have done collectively is fair.

You are saying it is a good thing, because you said if you were hiring it would affect whether you took a PSU grad. Very sad. There are 45,000 students enrolled at that campus. 90,000 at all of them combined.
The drunks and angered students who overturned the van are accountable for their actions. Anyone who participated in a coverup is responsible for that. Why would you smear people who knew nothing about it?
I hope you are not involved in any hiring authority or in the justice system. Students past and present are just as shocked as the rest of us.