Penn State

[ricoba]

In a sports obsessed nation where athletes are treated as royalty, I hope we soon begin to learn the lesson that the "winning at any cost" mentality is a fallacy and false premiss.

Someone always pays.

Sadly in this case, it was young innocent children who paid the greatest price.

 

[Passepartout]

In a sports obsessed nation where athletes are treated as royalty,

Sadly in this case, it was young innocent children who paid the greatest price.

Now I see that the authorities never even got the name of the 10-year-old who was being sodomized in the shower. PA Governor: "Please come forward, we're looking for you."

This will be an absolutely EPIC example of justice denied- and if proof can be found surrounding the DA's disappearance in '05, possibly violent suppression of evidence to protect the University's leaders and sports authorities.

Sickening!

Jim

 

[Kal]

Let's see what kind of "retirement" package JoPa obtains. When a person is fired with cause, retirement benefits are often out the window. He will need every penny to fend off all the personal law suits.

 

[MuranoJo]

This and the DA who was on the verge of bringing up charges disappeared in '05 without a trace, his laptop with crushed hard drive fished out of the Susquehanna. He was just declared dead this year. No suspects. Curious, no?

Jim

Sounds like what we've heard so far is only the tip of the iceberg.

 

[lvhmbh]

Said in the report that Sandusky was given an elevated retirement package by Paterno - yuck!

 

[Elan]

Let's see what kind of "retirement" package JoPa obtains. When a person is fired with cause, retirement benefits are often out the window. He will need every penny to fend off all the personal law suits.

At age 84, I'm not sure his retirement package is that important. I'd have to assume his net worth is in the tens of millions.

 

[Conan]

[Political comment deleted - DeniseM Moderator]

 

[klpca]

Reading the indictment was sickening.

And for the life of me, I will never understand how two adults witnessed two boys being assaulted and walked away.

This is about way more than football, Penn State, and Joe Paterno.

 

[Clemson Fan]

As a Buckeyes fan I can help but picture Jim Tressel sitting home right now thinking, "How you like ME now?"

Ugh! So, because the worst scandal/tragedy in college football has exploded it makes Tressel's actions OK? Tressel was caught lying and covering things up also. Granted, it wasn't anywhere close as bad as what's going on at Penn State, but that still doesn't excuse his actions. In fact, I imagine if Tressel's wasn't presented with the same situation as Paterno that Tressel's wouldn't have done the same thing and just swept it under the rug to protect the "program".

I think this scandal is going to get far worse for Penn State as I think it's going to be revealed that a lot of people knew about Sandusky. I heard on the radio that a Penn State linebacker was suspended by Paterno in 2005 for making prank/harassing phone calls to a former Penn State assistant coach. Hmmm?

Hopefully some good will come out of this. By exploding and exposing this enabling culture that was developed at Penn State and by bringing down Paterno this will prevent these enabling cultures from developing in the future.

 

[djs]

[Response to political post deleted - DeniseM Moderator]

 

[Passepartout]

[Quote of deleted post removed - DeniseM Moderator]

Would that SOMEONE had intruded 9 years ago when acts were witnessed and reported to University officials. THEY then chose to stifle any investigation. Private matters between consenting adults in private surroundings is one thing. Homosexual rape of a child in public is something entirely different.

The tip of this iceberg is getting so large as to capsize the whole university. Forget the football program- it's already dead. More information makes it appear worse with every hour.

Jim

 

[Elan]

I think this scandal is going to get far worse for Penn State as I think it's going to be revealed that a lot of people knew about Sandusky. I heard on the radio that a Penn State linebacker was suspended by Paterno in 2005 for making prank/harassing phone calls to a former Penn State assistant coach. Hmmm?

I'll be the first to admit that I'm jumping ahead of things here, but I would tend to agree. Seems to be one of those cases where everyone in the football hierarchy knew, and there was some sort of agreement that it was not to be discussed or addresed.

If that indeed is the case, then there's more likelihood that the larger "boys for boosters" theory has merit. I can't see why the entire football program (and to some extent, the university) would put itself at risk to protect one slimy ex-coach unless there was big money involved.

 

[SueDonJ]

Would that SOMEONE had intruded 9 years ago when acts were witnessed and reported to University officials. THEY then chose to stifle any investigation. Private matters between consenting adults in private surroundings is one thing. Homosexual rape of a child in public is something entirely different.

The tip of this iceberg is getting so large as to capsize the whole university. Forget the football program- it's already dead. More information makes it appear worse with every hour.

Jim

You've mentioned the correlation to the pedophile priest scandal in the catholic church; it was my first thought as well when I heard the first reports out of Penn State. One of the Boston priests was my (beloved at the time) 9th-grade confirmation instructor, several friends of mine were victims of his, he and other parish priests through the years were so integral to my family's life that we invited him to co-serve at our parents' funerals after he had been moved from our parish but before the scandal broke. What I learned about pedophile behavior and the cover-ups that all-too-sadly accompany it is directly a result of that familiarity with the priest scandal, and what leads me to believe that Penn State's scandal will be at least as all-encompassing. It won't be a surprise at all if the football program dies there. Honestly, I can't believe that there will be a game played tomorrow. As far as I'm concerned, every action that places an emphasis on the football program instead of the cover-up can be construed as enabling the scandal and re-victimizing the victims.

 

[SueDonJ]

... Shame on anyone who could say they wouldn't have defended the boy then and there.

Laura, earlier I had said, "I really don't know what I would be able to do in such a traumatic situation if I happened on it in my safe world today." Now I don't know if you're saying "shame on you" to me because of it. If you are, please try to understand that I didn't mean that I would not be willing to defend someone in a powerless situation. What I did mean is that I don't know what I would be capable of doing if I came upon such a situation. It's not that I'd be afraid for my own safety, it's that I don't know if I would be capable of reacting in a way that would help the victim at that moment. Fear is a powerful thing, powerful enough to paralyze. BUT I can say with surety that even I were paralyzed to the extent that I couldn't stop the act as it was happening, I'd be calling 911 as soon as I could function.

edited today: I saw a picture of McQueary today. He's a big, football player dude. Sandusky notsomuch. McQueary could have easily leveled Sandusky and ended this whole mess then and there. Somewhere there is a 20 something young man who is hearing all this stuff in the news, and learning that someone saw what happened to him that day when he was 10 years old, and turned his back and did nothing. The boy probably didn't even realize there was a witness till now. Can you imagine how he must be feeling? McQueary's defense just got weaker. In my book he is the most complicit.

Now in McQueary's case I don't think he was physically paralyzed by fear and couldn't act at that moment. (And by the way, McQueary says that the victim and Sandusky saw him at that moment - that now-20-something kid knew years ago that a rescuer turned his back on him.) What I do think, though, is that he was as indoctrinated to the cover-up commanded by Joe Paterno as any other Penn State employee was. I think Paterno from the very beginning was protecting himself and his dear friend, and above all else His Blessed Program. I think the reason he got away with so much in opposition to the trustees is that he was threatening them with the loss of their cash-cow football program. When McQueary saw Sandusky in action, I don't think he went simpering to his Dad in shock over what he had seen. I think he went to his Dad with rage and determination, looking for help to rid their world of the monster they all knew existed. I envision that encounter probably much differently than you do, something along the lines of, "For the love of GOD, Dad, I SAW him! I SAW HIM! You have to help me here, it was a BOY!" (Probably with a few f-bombs thrown in but this is TUG.) McQueary is second-generation Penn State - his dad played for Paterno. I think his Dad managed to calm him down and convince him to not go to the authorities but instead to Paterno the next day. Read back over that testimony - McQueary says he gave Paterno explicit details of what he'd seen [but by the time Paterno reported it to the Campus Security the day after that (which was the minimum he could do and still satisfy complicance) he "cleaned up" the report by saying that what was seen was "horseplay."] - (delete what's bracketed, corrected by sstamm)

Now I do agree, McQueary needs to go. So does every other person who held a position on that football program's staff and on the university's board. I wish along with everyone else that McQueary could have done something at that moment. But I can somewhat understand that he may have been paralyzed by fear. Maybe not physical paralysis, but a form much more insidious.

 

[dwojo]

What a horrible situation. I do not understand how anyone could be interested in those acts. Or not better report what happened. It is hard to think of how many times these are not reported at all.

It is sad that students are protesting Paterno being fired and not about university officials covering it up.

How was Sandusky still allowed access to campus?

How much jail time is he going to face for his crimes?


Its crazy how one bad decision can ruin a legacy but I think it has to be done. Anything to stop abuse in the future is needed. Hopefully the next Joe Pa in the situation will do a better job of reporting it.

I do not understand why the entire coaching staff was not charged with covering it up.

 

[Skittles1]

I am a Penn State graduate, and I am absolutely sick over all of this. First and foremost, my heart goes out to all of the victims of that sick monster, whose innocence was taken from them, and who will be haunted by those events for the rest of their lives. I am in agreement with Susan's previous statement about how McQueary likely reacted to the situation. He absolutely should've immediately stopped what was going on, and went to the police. But he is from State College, and, as was stated before, is a second generation PSU football player, so this football program is in his blood, and if Joe Pa told hime he would take care of it, I'm sure he thought he would. As for Joe Paterno, I have such mixed emotions. Over his many years of service to PSU, he has given back so much to the university and to the community. It pains me that such a good man and coach, will be left with this legacy. That is the Penn State running through my veins talking. But I do think the Board of Trustees did the right thing firing Paterno and President Graham Spanier. They need to clean house of anyone involved in this cover-up. I also think over the coming weeks, much more information and allegations will come to light, for example about that missing DA.

 

[pjrose]

Horseplay? Curley called it horseplay (or horsing around)?

repulsive, repulsive.

Thumbs down, many many thumbs down.

 

[sstamm]

Now things are getting a bit confused.

It was not Paterno who called it "horseplay."

According to the Grand Jury Report, McQueary told Paterno what happened.

Paterno then told Curley, the AD, that the grad asst. had reported to him that he had seen Sandusky in the shower "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy."

It was Curley, in his grand jury testimony, who said that the grad assistant told him that they were "horsing around." His testimony was found to be not credible.

While there is certainly enough blame to go around, I think it is important to not twist the facts. My information comes from the Grand Jury REport, which was nauseating to read.

While it does seem that Paterno was not specific in reporting what McQueary told him, he did not reduce it to horseplay.

 

[pjrose]

Correction noted, and made above. Thanks

 

[sstamm]

Also, President Spanier testified that Curley and Schultz reported the incident to them in the same manner- that an unidentified staff member was uncomfortable because Sandusky was horsing around in the shower with a boy.

See, here's what gets me. There are no circumstances under which it would be appropriate for Sandusky EVER to be in the showers with a young child. So whether it was called horseplay or sexual abuse, it should have been reported.

Also, unfortunately there were other missed opportunities for adults to have intervened. A wrestling coach at a high school came upon Sandusky and a boy engaging in what appeared to be inappropriate contact in the weight room at the high school. But it never says that the coach reported it, just that he thought it was odd.

I'm trying to be careful not to judge the grad asst. and the janitor who witnessed Sandusky too harshly. Yes, they should have done something. But whistle-blowers are not always taken seriously. That is why someone in authority (i.e. Paterno) should have used his authority to make sure that something was done. If Curley and Schultz didn't act, Paterno should have followed up with the police. But he didn't. At the very least, a disappointment that he didn't do the right thing. But I'm afraid that it will come out that his inaction was motivated by a deeper involvement in a cover up.

 

[pianodinosaur]

The amazing thing to me is that Penn State students rioted in support of Joe Paterno. What kind of an education are they getting? Penn State will be a much easier target for litigation than the Catholic Church. Penn State has been disgraced and may very well be sued out of business. It does not take a college graduate to understand this. The Board of Trustees is working to control the damage as much as possible. The question the students should by asking is not why Joe Paterno was fired but why it took so long for Joe Paterno to be fired.

My sympathy lies with the young boys who were subjected to the abuse.

 

[Timeshare Von]

I've tried to read through everything said here on this thread as well as the grand jury report. Like everyone else, I'm sickened by how these young boys could be violated in such a sick and grotesque manner.

I think Penn State did what they had to regarding the school president and Paterno.

Regarding McQueary and why he wasn't fired (yet) . . . perhaps it has to do with his legal rights as a whistleblower? Employers may not retaliate against a whistleblower and perhaps they have legal counsel not to pursue firing him until more is known.

I don't know, but it was one of the scenarios that played through my mind in trying to understand why he wasn't fired initially. (Note, I haven't said he should or shouldn't be fired . . . for me that's still an open question as I don't know that I know enough to say.)

That said, I do wish he had done more at the very moment that he walked into what he said he saw. Having worked in youth sports for many years, I cannot imagine seeing that and just turning to walk out. The culture of school loyalty and/or intimidation must have been significant.

 

[Kal]

At age 84, I'm not sure his retirement package is that important. I'd have to assume his net worth is in the tens of millions.

My point is actually him getting anything after being fired. When a company is dealing with "for cause", the game changes....for most people. Let's see if the University has any guts. I doubt it.

 

[SueDonJ]

Thank you for the correction, sstamm. You're right - it isn't helpful or necessary to get the facts wrong.

I feel a little bit better about Paterno's actions in that one instance. But it doesn't change my overall opinion that he had more power than anyone on that campus to stop a monster, or that his influence wasn't responsible for the actions - and inaction - of every person who knew about the monster.

When the first allegation was brought Sandusky could have been reported to outside police authorities by the administration. As long as there was no cover-up, the football program and the university could survive the loss of Sandusky with minimal damage. And no decent man of integrity would have disagreed with the decision to involve the police authorities.

Joe Paterno IS Penn State. He knows that, everybody knows that! If Joe Paterno wanted Sandusky gone then it would have happened almost as immediately as he voiced the command. But somebody had the authority (or autonomy?) to convince the administration and trustees that there would forever be a place for Sandusky on that campus despite what had been reported about him. Who else could that somebody be other than Joe Paterno?

 

[DeniseM]

One talk show that I listened to brought up an interesting point about Joe Paterno, who is over 80 years old. He grew up in a generation that was less aware of issues like child molestation, and found them extremely embarrassing and difficult to deal with, and something that was not discussed openly. If that was his mind-set, it may have seemed like this was too indecent for public discussion, and the best way was to quietly report it to administration, and let them handle it privately.

I don't agree with that, obviously, but it does make sense. I mean, think about an 80+ member of your family - can you discuss child molestation with them? How would they react? If my own mom was alive, she would be about 80, and a topic like that would be too indecent to even discuss, for her.