Need assistance planning a visit to Italy

[DaveNV]

I had a new question, but Nevermind. I got my answer.

Dave

 

[DaveNV]

Anybody have an opinion, pro or con, about Condor Airlines? Reviews seem a bit mixed. I'm looking at a nonstop flight from Las Vegas to Frankfurt, Germany.

Dave

 

[sponger76]

Anybody have an opinion, pro or con, about Condor Airlines? Reviews seem a bit mixed. I'm looking at a nonstop flight from Las Vegas to Frankfurt, Germany.

Dave

Aren't they a subsidiary of Lufthansa? I would figure they would at least be serviceable.

 

[ScoopKona]

Aren't they a subsidiary of Lufthansa?

No.

They have one of the most convoluted ownership stories in airline history. They're not really owned by anyone at this point. A bunch of IOUs and bankruptcy orders until someone actually owns them. And any time some group comes close, it falls through.

I have flown them several times. They used to do $200 one-way trips from LAS-FRA so I would go there for a long weekend. "What did you do this weekend?" "Not much. Flew to Germany. Ate a lot of schnitzel. Drank a lot of lager."

It wouldn't be my first choice to Italy. (But not for any other reason that there are better choices from LAS.)

 

[sponger76]

No.

They have one of the most convoluted ownership stories in airline history. They're not really owned by anyone at this point. A bunch of IOUs and bankruptcy orders until someone actually owns them. And any time some group comes close, it falls through.

I have flown them several times. They used to do $200 one-way trips from LAS-FRA so I would go there for a long weekend. "What did you do this weekend?" "Not much. Flew to Germany. Ate a lot of schnitzel. Drank a lot of lager."

It wouldn't be my first choice to Italy. (But not for any other reason that there are better choices from LAS.)

Yeah, I just looked it up. Apparently Lufthansa sold off its ownership shares to Thomas Cook in the early 2000s. And of course that company went under. I'm kind of surprised that Condor survived.

 

[ScoopKona]

Yeah, I just looked it up. Apparently Lufthansa sold off its ownership shares to Thomas Cook in the early 2000s. And of course that company went under. I'm kind of surprised that Condor survived.

They turn a profit. And they have a solid business model. So they're in limbo. There's nothing wrong with them -- if you're ok with budget airlines. And for $200 trips to Germany, where I speak the language and get treated like a long-lost friend, they were great.

Still not my first choice, though. But if I weren't up to my eyeballs in harvest and water-line issues, I'd cheerfully fly them to FRA just for a pretzel. (My favorite little town in Germany is a half-hour train from the airport.)

 

[sponger76]

They turn a profit. And they have a solid business model. So they're in limbo. There's nothing wrong with them -- if you're ok with budget airlines. And for $200 trips to Germany, where I speak the language and get treated like a long-lost friend, they were great.

Still not my first choice, though. But if I weren't up to my eyeballs in harvest and water-line issues, I'd cheerfully fly them to FRA just for a pretzel. (My favorite little town in Germany is a half-hour train from the airport.)

I flew them LOOOONG ago (very early 2000s) as part of a Lufthansa ticket, which is why I had remembered they were part of Lufthansa. Both the Lufthansa and Condor flights were ok back then, but I know enough to realize that's no guarantee of how they are today. I did have a single flight on Lufthansa this past December from FRA to FCO, which wasn't particularly good or bad. Then again, not really long enough to really form an impression.

 

[ScoopKona]

I flew them LOOOONG ago (very early 2000s) as part of a Lufthansa ticket, which is why I had remembered they were part of Lufthansa. Both the Lufthansa and Condor flights were ok back then, but I know enough to realize that's no guarantee of how they are today. I did have a single flight on Lufthansa back in December from FRA to FCO, which wasn't particularly good or bad. Then again, not really long enough to really form an impression.

Something like seven roundtrips with them. Six of those the "$200 each way special." Basic reliable bare bones transportation. Then again, I also fly Spirit to Oakland and Southwest to Los Angeles just to get away. I've probably done the Spirit LAS-OAK trip 50 times. Often at $9 each way. I truly detest Las Vegas. But the airport is a joy. Best airport in the worst city. So I made use of the airport to get the [censored] out of Las Vegas every chance I could.

In its own perverted way, Las Vegas made me a much better traveler because I couldn't wait to leave that god-forsaken hell hole.

 

[DaveNV]

It wouldn't be my first choice to Italy. (But not for any other reason that there are better choices from LAS.)

Looking at them to fly nonstop LAS to FRA. Working on your recommendation, actually. We're planning to spend a day or two in the Frankfurt area, then take the train down to Venice.

Dave

 

[ScoopKona]

Looking at them to fly nonstop LAS to FRA. Working on your recommendation, actually. We're planning to spend a day or two in the Frankfurt area, then take the train down to Venice.

Dave

I have reservations offering any advice at all. I don't see much of a point.

Here it is.

Fly Edelweiss to ZRH. The Zurich to Venice train is one of the world's great train trips. Just as good as Salzburg to Venice. (They're neck and neck. And go through similar terrain) And you're right there. Fewer connections. Less hassle. You can be on that train 45 minutes after landing, assuming you pack light.

Switzerland is double the price of Germany and Austria. But you won't spend much time or money there. It's lovely from a train. Google that train ride.

 

[Ken555]

Looking at them to fly nonstop LAS to FRA. Working on your recommendation, actually. We're planning to spend a day or two in the Frankfurt area, then take the train down to Venice.

Dave

This was great: https://www.myswitzerland.com/en-us/experiences/bernina-express/

When I bought the train ticket I was able do to so at bahn.de, which was less expensive than buying at the Swiss site. Try buying a single ticket from Frankfurt, assuming the timing works.

Lufthansa has their Eurowings Discover A330 nonstop, and I would do anything Lufthansa before Condor strictly based on reviews I’ve read for years. However, keep in mind that economy seats are tight, so I would absolutely recommend premium at minimum. Then again, perhaps “Eurowings Discover” is just a new name for Condor.


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[DaveNV]

This was great: https://www.myswitzerland.com/en-us/experiences/bernina-express/

When I bought the train ticket I was able do to so at bahn.de, which was less expensive than buying at the Swiss site. Try buying a single ticket from Frankfurt, assuming the timing works.

Lufthansa has their Eurowings Discover A330 nonstop, and I would do anything Lufthansa before Condor strictly based on reviews I’ve read for years. However, keep in mind that economy seats are tight, so I would absolutely recommend premium at minimum. Then again, perhaps “Eurowings Discover” is just a new name for Condor.


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Thanks, Ken. I'm only looking at this particular Condor flight because Premium Economy tickets are substantially lower priced than I'm seeing on other carriers. We won't fly Economy for that long, because of space and my husband's health issues. I'm not trying to take the cheap way out, but if I can save a couple thousand dollars on airfare on a reasonable nonstop flight, it's worth looking into. Still looking into all options - and there are so many, it's ridiculous.

I know it probably seems like I'm being random in my planning, but I'm trying to figure out how to make the best possible trip I can. Those of you with tons of experience at European travel are probably thinking I can't make a decision, which is simply not the case. There are too many options.

Dave

 

[Passepartout]

Dave, we have flown condor comfort economy. It was a viable option. Certainly not Business or First, but not too miserable. A couple of glasses of free vino and an eye mask & noise cancelling headphones and you're there.

 

[DaveNV]

Dave, we have flown condor comfort economy. It was a viable option. Certainly not Business or First, but not too miserable. A couple of glasses of free vino and an eye mask & noise cancelling headphones and you're there.

Thanks, Jim. I appreciate the info. It's an overnight flight, but saves the hassle of layovers somewhere along the way, so it seems like a possible option. They're flying an Airbus A330-900Neo jet, which seems to have a decent layout, from all I can tell.

This Condor to Frankfurt thing only came up as an option because of the substantially lower cost involved for a nonstop flight, and I've tried to factor that city into our plans. There is a Leica camera factory in Wetzler, Germany, not very far from Frankfurt. My Jeff, the photographer who owns a ton of Leica equipment, has talked for years about touring it, if we're ever in the area. We're thinking that spending a night or two in Frankfurt might be a way to easily get over jet lag, see the camera factory, then connect to a scenic train ride down to Venice, arriving at the train station a block from the hotel we're going to stay at.

As I say, too many options.

Dave

 

[Ken555]

Thanks, Ken. I'm only looking at this particular Condor flight because Premium Economy tickets are substantially lower priced than I'm seeing on other carriers. We won't fly Economy for that long, because of space and my husband's health issues. I'm not trying to take the cheap way out, but if I can save a couple thousand dollars on airfare on a reasonable nonstop flight, it's worth looking into. Still looking into all options - and there are so many, it's ridiculous.

I know it probably seems like I'm being random in my planning, but I'm trying to figure out how to make the best possible trip I can. Those of you with tons of experience at European travel are probably thinking I can't make a decision, which is simply not the case. There are too many options.

Dave

I get it. You want the most comfort you can get and not be squeezed in economy. I also prefer premium, and that’s what I’ve been flying to Europe for the last bunch of years (just bought a nonstop premium London-LA on Norse, which uses the planes from Norwegian and they’re just fine). However, Condor is one of the exceptions - their premium doesn’t have a separate cabin, doesn’t have wide seats, etc. it has more legroom, so I suppose you could consider it similar to the various economy plus cabins out there with more legroom and that’s it. Be careful you research this so you know what you’re getting and aren’t disappointed on the day of flight. Here’s an article from this year about their new planes:

Inside Condor’s new premium economy, coach cabins, with one-way fares to Europe starting at just $169 - The Points Guy

Condor's brand-new premium economy and coach cabins on the Airbus A330-900neo aren't just gorgeous — they're also a great deal with fares from the U.S. to Europe starting at just $169.

thepointsguy.com

And no, I think you’re doing exactly correct by taking it slow. You might want to check out Level Air, as they offer nonstop flights from LA to Barcelona, and can be very affordable in premium. Or, Norse from LA to London or Oslo (depending on your dates).


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[Ken555]

Also, you might want to check out the reviews of Condor. For example:

Condor Flights and Reviews (with photos) - Tripadvisor

Compare and book Condor: See traveler reviews and find great flight deals for Condor.

www.tripadvisor.com

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[DaveNV]

I get it. You want the most comfort you can get and not be squeezed in economy. I also prefer premium, and that’s what I’ve been flying to Europe for the last bunch of years (just bought a nonstop premium London-LA on Norse, which uses the planes from Norwegian and they’re just fine). However, Condor is one of the exceptions - their premium doesn’t have a separate cabin, doesn’t have wide seats, etc. it has more legroom, so I suppose you could consider it similar to the various economy plus cabins out there with more legroom and that’s it. Be careful you research this so you know what you’re getting and aren’t disappointed on the day of flight. Here’s an article from this year about their new planes:

Inside Condor’s new premium economy, coach cabins, with one-way fares to Europe starting at just $169 - The Points Guy

Condor's brand-new premium economy and coach cabins on the Airbus A330-900neo aren't just gorgeous — they're also a great deal with fares from the U.S. to Europe starting at just $169.

thepointsguy.com

And no, I think you’re doing exactly correct by taking it slow. You might want to check out Level Air, as they offer nonstop flights from LA to Barcelona, and can be very affordable in premium. Or, Norse from LA to London or Oslo (depending on your dates).


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Thank you, Ken. That article was very informative. I had searched Seatguru for information on the jet, but there wasn't any info there.

Dave

 

[DaveNV]

Also, you might want to check out the reviews of Condor. For example:

Condor Flights and Reviews (with photos) - Tripadvisor

Compare and book Condor: See traveler reviews and find great flight deals for Condor.

www.tripadvisor.com

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I'd read through that TA page yesterday. It seems most of the really bad reviews are Economy passengers, or those flying on the older aircraft. If Condor actually flies this newer jet, it seems like a lot of the complaints may not apply. I know it's a crapshoot, but it is what it is.

Dave

 

[Passepartout]

Dave. Bring a couple of these:

They aren't voltage changers (cruises don't allow them), but most all of the stuff these days works fine 120/240v and just needs the plug adaptor. And these have a couple of 5v USB outlets to boot. You'll need them in your travels. Your cruise ship will just have one 120v outlet in the cabin.

 

[Ken555]

Thank you, Ken. That article was very informative. I had searched Seatguru for information on the jet, but there wasn't any info there.

Dave

Seatguru has a lot of old info. Try https://seatmaps.com, though in this instance they also don’t have much on Condor.


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[Ken555]

I'd read through that TA page yesterday. It seems most of the really bad reviews are Economy passengers, or those flying on the older aircraft. If Condor actually flies this newer jet, it seems like a lot of the complaints may not apply. I know it's a crapshoot, but it is what it is.

Dave

You won’t find me flying Condor unless I had no other financially acceptable option. I want premium seats for the more comfortable, wider, seats, at least 18”. When it’s 17” or so, I feel squeezed…and on a long flight it’s really uncomfortable.

However, you might consider buying a third seat. I know many others who do this to buy the entire row, etc. Often that’s much less expensive than premium or business, etc.


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[DaveNV]

You won’t find me flying Condor unless I had no other financially acceptable option. I want premium seats for the more comfortable, wider, seats, at least 18”. When it’s 17” or so, I feel squeezed…and on a long flight it’s really uncomfortable.

However, you might consider buying a third seat. I know many others who do this to buy the entire row, etc. Often that’s much less expensive than premium or business, etc.


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After all due consideration and researching the bottom line costs, we've decided to go back to the original plan: Fly LAS-VCE, and ATH-LAS, probably on British Airways, in Premium Economy. Nonstop LAS to LHR, have a bit of a layover, then a short hop to VCE, and the reverse from ATH, through LHR, then nonstop to LAS. That's the current benchmark, as we search alternate airlines. Germany and that train ride, in whatever form, can wait for another trip. The airfare savings on Condor was quickly eaten up by additional time, accommodations, and ground transportation.

Again, thanks everyone. Sometimes it's not what you say, but what you don't that speaks more clearly.

Dave

 

[Ken555]

After all due consideration and researching the bottom line costs, we've decided to go back to the original plan: Fly LAS-VCE, and ATH-LAS, probably on British Airways, in Premium Economy. Nonstop LAS to LHR, have a bit of a layover, then a short hop to VCE, and the reverse from ATH, through LHR, then nonstop to LAS. That's the current benchmark, as we search alternate airlines. Germany and that train ride, in whatever form, can wait for another trip. The airfare savings on Condor was quickly eaten up by additional time, accommodations, and ground transportation.

Again, thanks everyone. Sometimes it's not what you say, but what you don't that speaks more clearly.

Dave

Keep in mind that if you fly BA you can get a free layover in London, if you want to stay a few days there.

 

[DaveNV]

Keep in mind that if you fly BA you can get a free layover in London, if you want to stay a few days there.

I wasn't aware of that. Would that just be by booking a Multi City itinerary, and delaying the second flight? Or is there another way to find options? Thinking about checked baggage and such.

Dave

 

[Ken555]

I wasn't aware of that. Would that just be by booking a Multi City itinerary, and delaying the second flight? Or is there another way to find options? Thinking about checked baggage and such.

Dave

When you buy at the ba.com site for LAS-VEN (for instance) it should offer you the choice of a stopover, and then you choose what day you want to continue your journey, etc. You would pickup your bags in London. I believe a multi-city itinerary would accomplish the same thing. Just be sure to look at ba.com.

I'm on a similar flight on BA in October to Berlin with a few days in London en route. I've done this a few times. Other airlines offer similar options, such as TAP Portugal in Lisbon, etc.