Need assistance planning a visit to Italy

[DaveNV]

Who said anything about a loop to and from anywhere? I never said I was making a special trip to Naples from Rome. The ship stops there the second day, and our tour is already scheduled. I've stated that our plans are to take in the high points we want to see in the cities we've scheduled to visit. We know we aren't going to see everything, and we're not going to even try. Your points are well taken, if this was a "see everything"vacation. It's not.

I thought I've been very specific all along: Venice to Florence to Rome, and then we're out of the country. We'll arrive in Venice by whichever means seems best for us. (Your suggestion about the train through the Alps is currently top on that list.) We'll spend a couple of days seeing the high points in Venice, then we'll leave town. Same in Florence. It's about museums and architecture. We might make that side trip to Pisa, depending on how my husband is feeling. But that is the only one we're considering. Then to Rome for a couple more days - see some of the big stuff, then head off to catch the cruise ship.

What we are not planning to do is race off in assorted directions to this or that other city or area for a day's looksee at what they have. Yes, in a perfect world of "see everything" vacationing, that would be an option. We're not making that trip. We can't. And we're okay with not seeing everything.

Please let it rest, ok? We're going to do what we expect will work best for us, and that's the way our trip will be planned.

Dave

 

[pedro47]

The trains in Italy are not liked Amtrak in the USA, they are very efficient, excellent locations and they run on time.
DaveNV, please enjoy your cruise and your visit to Italy.

 

[DaveNV]

The trains in Italy are not liked Amtrak in the USA, they are very efficient, excellent locations and they run on time.
DaveNV, please enjoy your cruise and your visit to Italy.

Thanks, Pedro. I'm sure we'll have a wonderful time.

Dave

 

[ScoopKona]

Who said anything about a loop to and from anywhere?

Please let it rest, ok? We're going to do what we expect will work best for us, and that's the way our trip will be planned.

Dave

Who said anything about a loop? I did. Because if you grab a map and a pencil, and draw circles around "this is where most of the stuff people want to see in Italy is located," you end up with two loops -- Florence to just a little past Pisa; and Rome to Pompeii. Thankfully for you, these two areas are unbelievably well connected. Florence to Pisa is only 40 miles on a train that can travel faster than a Ferrari. It isn't even really a day trip. It could be a morning or an afternoon trip. Because I assume "climbing the bell tower" isn't part of the itinerary.

Because of this, the linear way most Americans travel makes no sense whatsoever -- waking up in a different place every couple days. There's no advantage to this and many, many disadvantages -- mostly involving moving luggage around. But also the fact that you're always in a new place and thus starting from square one. Rome to Florence takes an hour and 20 minutes. Stay in between them, and you can see both very, very easily. Alternate if you like. If you decide you like one place more than the other, you can spend more time there. We think nothing about a 40 minute commute to work. This is even more convenient -- and you can enjoy breakfast as you speed around Tuscany and Lazio.

From a geography perspective, visiting Italy is like visiting New England. Everything is "right over there." (And it's all hills.) Unlike New England, they have a transportation system designed to get you where you're going in a matter of minutes. If New England enjoyed that kind of system, the best strategy would be to stay someplace in the middle (Northampton, for instance.) and take 200-mile-per-hour trains to any place you care to see. For anyone with, say, mobility issues, this is the way to go. Walk a few steps to the station, get on the train, and be deposited right in the center of town where you want to be. It still might be rough going because Italy is all hills, all the time. The seven hills of Rome is no joke. From a "I want this to be as easy as humanly possible" perspective, that's how to make it as easy as humanly possible.

Just remember, you can't buy your Italian rail pass in Italy. You have to buy it here -- and in time for them to mail it to you. And you have to have the pass validated at a train station ticket counter before using it for the first time. (I would fire that travel agent. Find someone who has been visiting Italy every year or two for a few decades.)

 

[Jodyv]

Good morning. Man, lots of information on this thread. Hotel paganelli in Venice is great, and right on the water and around the corner from St Mark's Square. (It is not particularly luxurious, but pretty comfortable....has some steps, though.) I got up at daylight one morning and wandered the streets. It was relatively deserted and provided great photo ops. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. You could also stay in Padua. The regional train cost us about 5 Euros and 20 minutes. Padua also has some great sites. The Scrovegni Chapel is wonderful. The university is really interesting....our B&B was great with a homemade breakfast every day. (darn, I can't remember the name.....) The Rick Steves guidebooks and website are helpful....he gives suggestions on what not to miss. Most of the information in his books can be found on his website also. You'll probably get hooked!!!! It's going to be a great trip!

 

[DaveNV]

Good morning. Man, lots of information on this thread. Hotel paganelli in Venice is great, and right on the water and around the corner from St Mark's Square. (It is not particularly luxurious, but pretty comfortable....has some steps, though.) I got up at daylight one morning and wandered the streets. It was relatively deserted and provided great photo ops. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. You could also stay in Padua. The regional train cost us about 5 Euros and 20 minutes. Padua also has some great sites. The Scrovegni Chapel is wonderful. The university is really interesting....our B&B was great with a homemade breakfast every day. (darn, I can't remember the name.....) The Rick Steves guidebooks and website are helpful....he gives suggestions on what not to miss. Most of the information in his books can be found on his website also. You'll probably get hooked!!!! It's going to be a great trip!

Great ideas! Thanks, Jody. Definitely a lot of good information. Sometimes Tug is like drinking from a firehose.

Dave

 

[clifffaith]

Who said anything about a loop? I did. Because if you grab a map and a pencil, and draw circles around "this is where most of the stuff people want to see in Italy is located," you end up with two loops -- Florence to just a little past Pisa; and Rome to Pompeii. Thankfully for you, these two areas are unbelievably well connected. Florence to Pisa is only 40 miles on a train that can travel faster than a Ferrari. It isn't even really a day trip. It could be a morning or an afternoon trip. Because I assume "climbing the bell tower" isn't part of the itinerary.

Because of this, the linear way most Americans travel makes no sense whatsoever -- waking up in a different place every couple days. There's no advantage to this and many, many disadvantages -- mostly involving moving luggage around. But also the fact that you're always in a new place and thus starting from square one. Rome to Florence takes an hour and 20 minutes. Stay in between them, and you can see both very, very easily. Alternate if you like. If you decide you like one place more than the other, you can spend more time there. We think nothing about a 40 minute commute to work. This is even more convenient -- and you can enjoy breakfast as you speed around Tuscany and Lazio.

From a geography perspective, visiting Italy is like visiting New England. Everything is "right over there." (And it's all hills.) Unlike New England, they have a transportation system designed to get you where you're going in a matter of minutes. If New England enjoyed that kind of system, the best strategy would be to stay someplace in the middle (Northampton, for instance.) and take 200-mile-per-hour trains to any place you care to see. For anyone with, say, mobility issues, this is the way to go. Walk a few steps to the station, get on the train, and be deposited right in the center of town where you want to be. It still might be rough going because Italy is all hills, all the time. The seven hills of Rome is no joke. From a "I want this to be as easy as humanly possible" perspective, that's how to make it as easy as humanly possible.

Just remember, you can't buy your Italian rail pass in Italy. You have to buy it here -- and in time for them to mail it to you. And you have to have the pass validated at a train station ticket counter before using it for the first time. (I would fire that travel agent. Find someone who has been visiting Italy every year or two for a few decades.)

Just stop! Give your typing fingers a rest!

 

[Patri]

Yes Scoop, be a nice Tugger now, and leave Dave alone. You will not be on his trip. His excellent adventure will not affect you at all.

 

[pedro47]

DaveNV, please take a pair of good walking sneakers or shoes for the trip.

 

[jehb2]

Do you have a plan for managing your luggage? I only ask because people often take 1-2 large suitcases on cruises. The most ideal way to travel between Venice-Florence-Rome would be by train. Even before factoring in your husband’s mobility issues, European train travel with “cruise” luggage could be really challenging. I think your pre-cruise trip will go much smoother if you could leave the bulk of you luggage somewhere and do train travel with only a 22” rolling carryon & perhaps small backpack.

 

[jehb2]

ricksteves.com is another excellent source for help and information. You can ask about travel in Europe in general, and you can also post Italy specific questions on the Italy travel form.

Check out all the free videos. Rick Steves also has a book specific for cruise travel and seeing the sights

 

[DaveNV]

Do you have a plan for managing your luggage? I only ask because people often take 1-2 large suitcases on cruises. The most ideal way to travel between Venice-Florence-Rome would be by train. Even before factoring in your husband’s mobility issues, European train travel with “cruise” luggage could be really challenging. I think your pre-cruise trip will go much smoother if you could leave the bulk of you luggage somewhere and do train travel with only a 22” rolling carryon & perhaps small backpack.

Yes, that is something to consider. Luggage is another thing we're discussing. I'd prefer to only take one or two carryon size bags between us, if we can. We plan to go only casual dress on the cruise, so no formal wear or anything. If I can't do it with a polo shirt and chinos, I'm not doing it. The rest is shorts and t-shirts.

Dave

 

[Luanne]

Yes, that is something to consider. Luggage is another thing we're discussing. I'd prefer to only take one or two carryon size bags between us, if we can. We plan to go only casual dress on the cruise, so no formal wear or anything. If I can't do it with a polo shirt and chinos, I'm not doing it. The rest is shorts and t-shirts.

Dave

We have neighbors who would do trips to Europe, usually at least 2 to 3 weeks, with just one carry-on each. I kept telling her I wanted her to teach me how to pack, lol.

This same couple the husband would usually plan the trip. One year he used Rick Steves to plan. His wife told me later that he had them scheduled down to the minute, had too many heavy meals planned, and didn't leave her any time for shopping! Another year they went on a Rick Steves tour. She said that her husband was more relaxed on that one as he hadn't had to do any of the planning.

As an aside, Rick Steves was the speaker at our older daughter's graduation from Evergreen State College in Olympia, WA. He was great. I still remember his message to the graduates. "Get out".

 

[Passepartout]

Yes, that is something to consider. Luggage is another thing we're discussing. I'd prefer to only take one or two carryon size bags between us, if we can. We plan to go only casual dress on the cruise, so no formal wear or anything. If I can't do it with a polo shirt and chinos, I'm not doing it. The rest is shorts and t-shirts.

Dave

You'll be fine. DW and I each use a carry-on and share one checked bag, but mostly necessary because of her shoe habit. You guys won't have that difficulty- However there's Jeff's camera bag. Just bring enough for the land portion of the trip, and send out a bag of laundry on the ship. NOBODY who goes on a cruise cares what YOU wear. Chinos and polos are perfectly acceptable.

Jim

 

[ScoopKona]

Yes, that is something to consider. Luggage is another thing we're discussing. I'd prefer to only take one or two carryon size bags between us, if we can. We plan to go only casual dress on the cruise, so no formal wear or anything. If I can't do it with a polo shirt and chinos, I'm not doing it. The rest is shorts and t-shirts.

Dave

Watch out with shorts. Especially women with shorts. There are some churches/cathedrals which abhor the sight of skin, and will ask women to cover up, or stay outside. My wife wears convertible pants, and I carry the pant legs around in our day pack. If she needs them, she can have them back on in seconds. She has been required to buy a shawl as well. If you want to see someone act like a rebel from the Handmaid's Tale, ask my wife to wear a shawl. "Would you like my husband to pull me around on a leash as well?"

As for dress in general, there is absolutely no way you're going to look like the Italians. It's pointless to even try. So a polo and slacks will work fine. It will scream "I'm not from around here." But you cannot avoid that. So be comfortable.

 

[jehb2]

You will have no problem with typical American male cargo shorts.

Wherever you go, you are going to be surrounded by hordes of tourist So no one will care how you dress. Dress comfortable and for the weather. If you feel like wearing a baseball hat, do it. As soon as you walk or open your mouth people are going to know you’re an American.

the man in seat 61 (https://www.seat61.com/) is the absolute best information source for European train travel, even if you’re only traveling within Italy.

 

[beejaybee]

Do you have a plan for managing your luggage? I only ask because people often take 1-2 large suitcases on cruises. The most ideal way to travel between Venice-Florence-Rome would be by train. Even before factoring in your husband’s mobility issues, European train travel with “cruise” luggage could be really challenging. I think your pre-cruise trip will go much smoother if you could leave the bulk of you luggage somewhere and do train travel with only a 22” rolling carryon & perhaps small backpack.

Yes this! We know of two cases among our circle of friends (ala Kevin Bacon) of lost checked luggage this year. One couple was on a bus tour of Europe and had no time to shop for wardrobe replacements. The husband had his bags after a few days but the wife's were sent to her house back here in the US! The other case was a family with two under two's flying to Turkey on UA- their luggage was only lost for a few days, which was a good thing since they's packed baby essentials in their checked bags.

Fred & I had our bags gone for 3 weeks thanks to AirBerlin in 2016. We did find enough clothing at the C&A stores in Berlin and Amsterdam to enable us to look "chic" enough on our Celebrity cruise that followed our stays in Berlin and Prague. Cruise Critic roll call members who read of our plight brought extra warm clothing for us to wear in the British Isles. AirBerlin went belly-up so we were never reimbursed for our expenditures. We didn't spend much at C&A, which a tour guide a few years later pointed out as we drove by one in Nuremberg and told the group the stores were colloquially known as Cheap And Awful!

 

[cwhovey]

I had referenced this upcoming trip in another thread several months ago. Things are now more firmed up, and I'm seeking experienced Tugger assistance in putting things together.

We are locked into a scheduled Celebrity cruise next July leaving from Rome (Civitavecchia), stopping in Naples, then around the Greek Islands and Kusadasi, and ending in Athens. Dates are firm, and I'm working around this schedule. (Yes, I know it's going to be Summer, hot, and crowded. Dates are firm, so it is what it is. I'm going to do the best I can.) I'm building an itinerary ahead of the cruise that will allow us to hit some of the highlights of Italy before we get on the ship. We want to visit Venice, Florence, and Rome, probably in that order. This trip is about photo ops, historic locations, and seeing memorable sites.

This is most likely a one-shot thing. I know we aren't going to be able to see everything. We aren't even trying to do that - we just want to see SOME of the historic things we, as Americans, have heard about all our lives. I'd appreciate your experienced help. I'm looking specifically for ideas and recommendations for places to stay, points of interest and museums that are especially interesting, and how best to get around. We're not against scheduling local tours, if there is one that doesn't rush people from one location to another. This is not intended to be a "twelve cities in seven days" kind to trip. My husband is diabetic and has certain mobility issues, including problems with prolonged standing. So extensive walking tours and such won't likely work well. We'll do what we can, and not worry about what we can't do. As I say, we'll do the best we can.

The intended plan is to arrive in Venice either by plane or train, spend a few days seeing things, then take the train to Florence. We'll spend several days there as appropriate, mainly to see the museums and architecture, then on to Rome for a few more days, before boarding the cruise ship. I'm thinking we'll spend maybe ten days in Italy ahead of the cruise. We are not Catholic, and not interested in seeing the Pope or the Vatican, or in seeing everything ever built. Just want to put together an interesting time in an historically amazing country.

Any suggestions?

TIA,
Dave

We lived in Naples for 3 years, and while there, be sure to check out the Amalfi coast just south of Naples. There is also Pompei, Vesuvius and other attractions. Rome is 100 miles from Naples, Florence is 300 miles, and Venice is 450 miles to give you an idea of distances. If you go to Florence, check out the American WW2 cemetery 6 miles out of town. Beautiful setting.

 

[JIMinNC]

We spent 12 days in Italy in June - 7 nights at an HGVC timeshare in the Tuscan countryside (near Peccioli) and 5 nights in Florence at the Westin Excelsior.

My favorite part of the trip was the Tuscan countryside visiting hilltop villages like San Gimignano, Volterra, and Montalcino, and most of all, visiting many of the wonderful Tuscan wineries for tastings/lunch. The Tuscan countryside is so beautiful. You are missing so much if all you do is a city like Florence. Even for the 5 nights in Florence, we spent one full day on a small group tour from Florence to Siena, San Gimignano, and a Chianti Classico winery, and we spent another full day on what turned out to be a private tour from Florence to two Brunello di Montalcino wineries in the village of Montalcino (we paid for a small group tour of no more than six people, but we were the only couple on the tour that day).

The museums and churches in Florence are historic and the architecture is great, but there's lots of people, it's crowded, and people are buzzing around everywhere on Vespa scooters. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of city centers anywhere (I'm a suburbanite through and through), but you are missing a lot if you don't take at least one day to do a small group tour from Florence into the Tuscan countryside.

A Tuscan winery near Peccioli

The Tuscan countryside from Peccioli

Lavender fields near Santa Luce

A Brunello winery near Montalcino

San Gimignano

 

[Passepartout]

We lived in Naples for 3 years, and while there, be sure to check out the Amalfi coast just south of Naples. There is also Pompei, Vesuvius and other attractions. Rome is 100 miles from Naples, Florence is 300 miles, and Venice is 450 miles to give you an idea of distances. If you go to Florence, check out the American WW2 cemetery 6 miles out of town. Beautiful setting.

Nice suggestions, but probably a bit ambitious for an 8ish hour cruise ship stop in Naples, and iirc Dave has a ship tour to Pompeii planned.

 

[Krteczech]

Add to your list a day trip from Florence to Sienna. Some walking from train station, or a taxi to get to the center. We just happened to be there one day after Palio races while all decor was still up. Unforgettable.

 

[vacationtime1]

Siena, San Gimignano, Cortona, Montecino are all hill towns -- meaning that they are on hills (duh). Usually steep medieval cobblestone or steep stone stairs hills; remember, these places were selected to withstand sieges. One explores these cities on foot. Given your description of your husband's mobility constraints, this may not be a good idea (I love these places, but they may not be a good match for you).

A day trip out of Florence would be worthwhile, however. I would suggest either Pisa and Lucca or second @JIMinNC's suggestion of driving through the Tuscan countryside; it is gorgeous.

 

[JIMinNC]

Siena, San Gimignano, Cortona, Montecino are all hill towns -- meaning that they are on hills (duh). Usually steep medieval cobblestone or steep stone stairs hills; remember, these places were selected to withstand sieges. One explores these cities on foot. Given your description of your husband's mobility constraints, this may not be a good idea (I love these places, but they may not be a good match for you).

A day trip out of Florence would be worthwhile, however. I would suggest either Pisa and Lucca or second @JIMinNC's suggestion of driving through the Tuscan countryside; it is gorgeous.

What you say about the hilltop villages is certainly true, however, most tours will take you by van into the town, minimizing the up and down walking. During our June trip, I was still recovering from a partially torn Achilles, so I still had some not insignificant mobility issues myself, but by using a cane I was able to navigate the small villages and stone streets just fine. The bigger issues were in Florence (and later in Munich) where I couldn’t move fast enough and was almost run over a few times by the people on scooters and bicycles.

 

[PamMo]

I’ve been following this thread and with so many knowledgeable people commenting, I didn’t think I could add any value, BUT, now I just can’t hold back.

@DaveNV, it’s quite obvious from your many posts on TUG, you’re a great guy. I hope someday we’ll cross paths while we’re out in Zion.

No matter what you decide to do in Italy, you’ll have a wonderful experience and want to return! I took my DH to a small town in Tuscany after he had open heart surgery in his 40’s. Not exactly the model of vigor and great health. We relaxed, wandered backroads, and explored small villages. We were invited back into kitchens to meet grandmothers who ruled the roost, and drank homemade concoctions with their families (maybe not the best idea). The amazing art, history, architecture, cuisine, etc, is what everyone seems to seek out when they visit, but the soul of the people will win your heart. We’ve been back many times since, and never been disappointed.

 

[DaveNV]

I’ve been following this thread and with so many knowledgeable people commenting, I didn’t think I could add any value, BUT, now I just can’t hold back.

@DaveNV, it’s quite obvious from your many posts on TUG, you’re a great guy. I hope someday we’ll cross paths while we’re out in Zion.

No matter what you decide to do in Italy, you’ll have a wonderful experience and want to return! I took my DH to a small town in Tuscany after he had open heart surgery in his 40’s. Not exactly the model of vigor and great health. We relaxed, wandered backroads, and explored small villages. We were invited back into kitchens to meet grandmothers who ruled the roost, and drank homemade concoctions with their families (maybe not the best idea). The amazing art, history, architecture, cuisine, etc, is what everyone seems to seek out when they visit, but the soul of the people will win your heart. We’ve been back many times since, and never been disappointed.

Thanks, Pam. You make me blush. I try to be as good to others as I can. There is no agenda - I'm as transparent as glass. Ask the Tuggers who've met me.

I love the idea of a trip like you've described. And in the future, it is one we'd likely want to do. This first (perhaps only) trip, we wanted to focus on the big stuff. My husband has been nagging me about a photo-op trip to Italy for more than 20 years. I kept putting him off, saying, "After we retire." Well, guess what? Yeah, we're there.

We'll do what we can, and save what we can't for another time. If nothing else, it gives us something else to plan for. (After we do a similar trip to Great Britain, Scandinavia, France, Spain, Egypt, Australia, and who knows what all else. And somewhere in there is a trip to Tahiti I've promised myself since I was in high school. And we all know how long ago THAT was!

Thanks, everyone, for all the tips and ideas. My head is still swimming!

Dave