Masks and male behavior

[Steve Fatula]

Greetings fellow lizard!!

Thanks, I think.

It's kind of ironic. In NW Ohio in college, if it was 30+, I wore shorts and T-shirt. Really. Then one day I got older. And I mean it happened fast. One day, I started getting cold below 70-75, depending on humidity. Now, I need a coat below 70-75, and, I (almost) never get too hot. It's my life story, usually extreme to most anything. But I love the outdoors and I love even more working in them.

 

[Monykalyn]

Thanks, I think.

It's kind of ironic. In NW Ohio in college, if it was 30+, I wore shorts and T-shirt. Really. Then one day I got older. And I mean it happened fast. One day, I started getting cold below 70-75, depending on humidity. Now, I need a coat below 70-75, and, I (almost) never get too hot. It's my life story, usually extreme to most anything. But I love the outdoors and I love even more working in them.

I grew up in Minot North Dakota until I was 13, then in Michigan until 16. Lots of time spent with cousins on dairy farm in Wisconsin. I am so done with the cold. Not many people enjoy hotter weather

 

[Steve Fatula]

I grew up in Minot North Dakota until I was 13, then in Michigan until 16. Lots of time spent with cousins on dairy farm in Wisconsin. I am so done with the cold. Not many people enjoy hotter weather

That has always confused me, if you don't like hotter weather, move north! My sister in Ohio is always saying she would never ever move south as it's too hot. I agree with her, for her. N Dakota would be another level of cold (obviously). Had a second cousin live there for a few years, heard the stories!

But a mask would be ok up there as at least it might warm you up a little in winter. If that is even possible.

I actually know a fair number of people who enjoy hotter weather in summer. But, I am sure as a percentage, not too many.

 

[SueDonJ]

I think the media tends to focus and therefore exaggerate the prevalence of these. Clickbait=$$ If you read beyond headlines (or look beyond the deliberately framed photo) you will find little fuss or even facts that relate to clickbait headline. But-the headline served its purpose and got you to look . One of my biggest gripes through all of this is the reckless way media has portrayed everything. There is responsible journalism out there-but that isn't being debated/discussed in 30 second sound bites.

Isn't this just a cute roundabout way of saying that you think I'm letting "the media" tell me what to think? Of course I'm reacting to video that I'm seeing and audio that I'm hearing! That doesn't mean that I'm behaving like one of the sheep who allow the talking heads to tell me what that video and audio should make me think, and I'm willing to give you the same benefit of the doubt that you're not being falsely led by anyone else's agenda.

But I'm also seeing, listening and responding to the things that family and friends are saying directly to me as well as to the things that family and friends are posting to social media (including here on TUG.) Seriously, I have yet to see an excuse for not wearing masks *in locations where it is strongly suggested that they be worn because new virus contractions are still happening* that isn't based in some way on the perceived loss of some phantom civil liberty that I have yet to discern. I just keep going back (without a talking head telling me that I should) to the question, what is the problem with wearing a mask if there's a chance that it will help us sooner rather than later to get to whatever our new normal will be? Where is the harm?!

 

[Steve Fatula]

Isn't this just a cute roundabout way of saying that you think I'm letting "the media" tell me what to think? Of course I'm reacting to video that I'm seeing and audio that I'm hearing! That doesn't mean that I'm behaving like one of the sheep who allow the talking heads to tell me what that video and audio should make me think, and I'm willing to give you the same benefit of the doubt that you're not being falsely led by anyone else's agenda.

But I'm also seeing, listening and responding to the things that family and friends are saying directly to me as well as to the things that family and friends are posting to social media (including here on TUG.) Seriously, I have yet to see an excuse for not wearing masks *in locations where it is strongly suggested that they be worn because new virus contractions are still happening* that isn't based in some way on the perceived loss of some phantom civil liberty that I have yet to discern. I just keep going back (without a talking head telling me that I should) to the question, what is the problem with wearing a mask if there's a chance that it will help us sooner rather than later to get to whatever our new normal will be? Where is the harm?!

I don't think it means you are being singled out for being a mindless sheep, to be fair, there's clearly some of those on TUG. I can name names (but obviously won't) of those who *only* talk about politics on TUG with vague references and endless opinion posts (don't think they even own a timeshare). There is a lot of clickbait, I consider that a fact though it's opinion to those who do not. I can not only give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not a mindless sheep, as I am sure that's the case quite honestly from reading your posts, I like many of them! But that doesn't mean I couldn't also think very very bad things about modern media, as I do! I think both are possible. For me, when I get my somewhat daily dose of news from various online media outlets, I would say 90%+ are clickbait, or, extremist opinion more than factual. I actually very much appreciate independent thinkers who don't only recite head talking points and narratives.

But I totally agree, I don't know of any good argument either. And you have to understand I would normally be a live free or die kinda guy. So, it doesn't go with what some of the heads are saying. Those who cite freedom, where exactly are you guaranteed you can do whatever you wish, what document says that?

 

[sue1947]

Isn't this just a cute roundabout way of saying that you think I'm letting "the media" tell me what to think? Of course I'm reacting to video that I'm seeing and audio that I'm hearing! That doesn't mean that I'm behaving like one of the sheep who allow the talking heads to tell me what that video and audio should make me think, and I'm willing to give you the same benefit of the doubt that you're not being falsely led by anyone else's agenda.

But I'm also seeing, listening and responding to the things that family and friends are saying directly to me as well as to the things that family and friends are posting to social media (including here on TUG.) Seriously, I have yet to see an excuse for not wearing masks *in locations where it is strongly suggested that they be worn because new virus contractions are still happening* that isn't based in some way on the perceived loss of some phantom civil liberty that I have yet to discern. I just keep going back (without a talking head telling me that I should) to the question, what is the problem with wearing a mask if there's a chance that it will help us sooner rather than later to get to whatever our new normal will be? Where is the harm?!

I agree. The bottom line is that there is a lot we don't know, but we do know this is very infectious. If I can limit the spread by wearing a mask and keeping my distance, then that's a pretty small thing to ask. For me, it's being part of the solution rather than part of the problem. I'll always try for the former.
Sue

 

[Monykalyn]

Isn't this just a cute roundabout way of saying that you think I'm letting "the media" tell me what to think?

no not at all-I wasn't clear and I am sorry. Meant "you" in general sense Too many tend to be reactionary. And It does come to responsible reporting-no media coverage of those idiots but more on responsible mask wearing-and it wouldn't be as big of an issue, especially if they were honest and said there wasn't a lot of science yet for this, but asking everyone to be careful for you and others. Unfortunately Dr Fauci has been politicized too much. The man has credibility.

 

[Gypsy65]

Wearing a mask says, "I am courteous and I don't wish to spread germs." Similarly do you want people breathing their germs on you?

Social norms are everywhere: A plane may not require one to shower and wear deodorant but people are offended when someone with poor hygiene sits next to them. Perhaps you have experienced this situation? Is expecting passengers to shower and use deodorant pushing a belief on others? or just common courtesy and social norm? Besides, although unpleasant, your seatmate not showering won't make you ill. Covid will.

I’m not saying I wouldn’t wear a mask if the business required it
But at that point I could choose to put it on and go in ( or fly ) or to simply not use that particular businesses service

If I were in a store or on a plane that definitely did not require a mask and someone else was offended then at that point who is right?

We would both have a choice but the mask wearer is not right just because of how they feel and I’m not wrong because it’s not required so don’t judge ( not directing this at you ) me for doing what I’m allowed to do

 

[CalGalTraveler]

If I were in a store or on a plane that definitely did not require a mask and someone else was offended then at that point who is right?

We would both have a choice but the mask wearer is not right just because of how they feel and I’m not wrong because it’s not required so don’t judge ( not directing this at you ) me for doing what I’m allowed to do

There is no rule that you are required to take a shower before boarding a plane. So it's okay to board planes without proper hygiene because there is no rule?

If a passenger stinks people will judge. (BTW...I am not saying you stink because you seem like a smart guy for thinking about this. Just working through the logic.)

This is a highly contagious disease. The consequences are much worse. Aren't you concerned about people breathing their germs on you in a plane?

 

[geekette]

.... If I were in a store or on a plane that definitely did not require a mask and someone else was offended then at that point who is right?

It's not about right and wrong, it's about "local rules", made by airline or biz owner. As always, you can decide where to spend your money, doing business where you want.

I just wish people would Move On if they don't like the particular rules. Don't make a stink, just go elsewhere. Like your example, putting a mask on to go in, or, decide to not go in.

Once a person goes in, they have implicitly agreed with "house rules", which usually also includes shoes and shirt. I am quite in favor of bouncing patrons, calling the cops if necessary. I don't really know why people go in and protest a clear rule. That is usually going to be the maskless. It's not going to be the mask wearers asked to remove it or get out.

We should all just be peaceful about it. We all want small business to succeed, so just do as they ask or go elsewhere. I think the next dust up is going to be a party for dinner that is larger than the restaurant or local health rules will allow. "But it's just one extra person!" Sometimes, we're going to get No for an answer, and that should be accepted.

These are tense times, let's not make it worse. There was footage of a woman body slammed for not wearing a mask. That is very much making it worse. However, she was not following the rules. Did not deserve that punishment, but, refused house rules. She could have just left, or put on the mask. I don't want to shop somewhere that rules are enforced that harshly, but it's not clear to me that it was employees laying hands on this woman. That becomes the other issue - mob rule. I'll do my share to not be part of that!

 

[geekette]

There is no rule that you have to take a shower before boarding a plane. So it's okay to board planes without proper hygiene because there is no rule?

If a passenger stinks people will judge. (BTW...I am not saying you stink because you seem like a smart guy for thinking about this.)

This is a highly contagious disease. The consequences are much worse.

Yeah. Judgement is going to be part of it. People don't get to say "don't judge" and expect judgement to cease. That's just silly. Saying it also makes clear they know they aren't operating in the realm of reasonable or customary and have zero consideration for others.

of course I will judge those not doing what they can to stop the spread of this virus. If you happen to live in a pristine, untouched by virus area, then, I don't care. But that's not where I live.

 

[WVBaker]

"We evaluate others with a Godlike justice, but we want them to evaluate us with a Godlike compassion."
Sydney J. Harris

 

[CalGalTraveler]

There is a point where the pursuit of personal freedom crosses into personal entitlement.

 

[Ken555]

There is no rule that you are required to take a shower before boarding a plane. So it's okay to board planes without proper hygiene because there is no rule?

Actually, the airlines can, and do, remove people due to odor complaints.

American Airlines removes family from flight over body odor complaints

The family accused the airline of singling them out because they're Jewish.

www.nbcnews.com

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[geekette]

Actually, the airlines can, and do, remove people due to odor complaints.

Have I told you lately that I appreciate your ability to dig up News of the Obscure?

Not sure how it actually works, but I would expect boarding agents and flight attendants to have wide latitude in what will or will not fly. Pun quite intended.

 

[Brett]

Yeah. Judgement is going to be part of it. People don't get to say "don't judge" and expect judgement to cease. That's just silly. Saying it also makes clear they know they aren't operating in the realm of reasonable or customary and have zero consideration for others.

of course I will judge those not doing what they can to stop the spread of this virus. If you happen to live in a pristine, untouched by virus area, then, I don't care. But that's not where I live.

yes, it's getting kinda crazy about the mask wearing
I'll go along with the Costco (and other) rules

 

[TravelTime]

To me a mask means this:

I wear a mask because I have been told it could help, even though the evidence is mixed on how much it helps. I do not know if it really helps or not, but I will do it just in case. If there is a possibility a mask could reduce the chances of spreading the disease, even if it only helps a little bit, then I will do it because the sooner this disease is gone, the sooner we can all go back to a somewhat normal life again.

I also know wearing a mask makes the people around me feel more comfortable and it might actually keep me and others a little safer too. That is a small sacrifice to make to be able to go out into society. I would rather do the things that health experts tell me might help, then stay at home 24/7. If wearing a mask means I can go out to do groceries, pick up my medicines, do some errands, and eventually see my friends and family, do more activities, and travel, then I am willing to do it.

Wearing a mask is not a big deal and it can't hurt, so I do it just in case it helps. Wearing a mask does not mean I am stupid, or a sheep, or controlled by the media. It just means there is not enough science right now to know what works and doesn't work and I understand that the health experts are doing all they can to figure this out.

 

[Gypsy65]

There are side effects to mask wearing
Some worse than others
Many can be lessened or overcome but we the people are not taking those precautions

I see people touch everything. Then their mask. Then hang it on the car mirror for next time

I also come across people who do about 1/2 of what they should be doing such as plexiglass at the register and then hand me change with physical contact

 

[Gypsy65]

Or how about your groceries
Is everyone running all their purchases through the dishwasher?
That Covid ridden person who touched items you now brought into your home are infected

You. Your car. Purse. Countertop. Etc

 

[Panina]

There are side effects to mask wearing
Some worse than others
Many can be lessened or overcome but we the people are not taking those precautions

I see people touch everything. Then their mask. Then hang it on the car mirror for next time

I also come across people who do about 1/2 of what they should be doing such as plexiglass at the register and then hand me change with physical contact

More Education should be done for proper mask handling but Not using them correctly imo is not a excuse for not using them.

 

[geekette]

Is everyone running all their purchases through the dishwasher?

Nope. Just you.

 

[Gypsy65]

Nope. Just you.

You cemented my point

Wear your mask. Judge those who don’t
And lick your canned goods

 

[Monykalyn]

I also come across people who do about 1/2 of what they should be doing such as plexiglass at the register and then hand me change with physical contact

Really-my issue with so many things today is the rush to "do something" without stopping to think and evaluate what is the best way; the plexiglass barrier at checkout is one of those things.
NO study anywhere says this is effective, and can actually make things worse due to air patterns/flow around the sides. Cumbersome and expensive. What IS effective are simple plastic face shields-also solves the problem when employee moves out from behind the barrier to bag groceries, or sanitize the belt etc. The face shields are available, and reusable. Keeps one from touching face as well. So what did every business do in a show "monkey-see monkey do-look at MY security theater show? Installed the barriers. .

It is healthy to question the WHY-we can usually find better ways of doing things when we do that, or at least reinforce the rationale behind what we are doing. However-now if you don't immediately jump on the latest "feel good" whatever or question rationale behind it you are immediately questioned in your motives, and then put down in some way. Not actually helpful.

 

[Steve Fatula]

Or how about your groceries
Is everyone running all their purchases through the dishwasher?
That Covid ridden person who touched items you now brought into your home are infected

You. Your car. Purse. Countertop. Etc

I don't wash them, but I do quarantine them. Pretty simple to do. Yes, I do wipe down my car handles, steering wheel, etc. Generally, I don't touch them until sanitized. Again, very simple, takes seconds of time. Yes, I do sanitize my phone. None of this is difficult or much of a hassle. There is actually little evidence that spread is coming from groceries, but seems obvious it's possible. Am I fearful or scared or frantic or a germophobe? None of the above. Just basic simple no hassle minor precautions. Given my wifes list of illnesses, I believe her death rate if she catches it exceeds 10%. As I actually want to keep her, , it would be pretty dumb imho to not take some precautions. But then again, we are not out very much, as recommended for older folks in our state. And actually though the advice is to not change clothes or wash (from what I have read) after going to the grocery store, I do. Again, very simple. And I also don't do business anywhere that does not require wearing masks inside. They won't get my money. And I still do it despite no cases in my county for 2 weeks. And I am a live free or die kinda guy too. Wearing a mask is a no brainer and to me shows you care about others at least as much as yourself.

 

[davidvel]

There are side effects to mask wearing
Some worse than others
Many can be lessened or overcome but we the people are not taking those precautions

I see people touch everything. Then their mask. Then hang it on the car mirror for next time

I also come across people who do about 1/2 of what they should be doing such as plexiglass at the register and then hand me change with physical contact

I agree we need to look at this more closely. Nothing wrong with wearing a mask they say, unless there is.

Masks are primarily used in the medical field on a short term basis. Their purpose is to collect contaminants on the inside from the wearer, and on the outside from others. They are then discarded. Reusing them by laypeople, in ordinary life, has not been studied. I see people touching them incessantly, reusing them, etc. I saw a lady wearing gloves push her mask down and wiper her nose with her gloves, then push mask back, and go on shopping. Would she have done this without them?