Masks and male behavior

[CalGalTraveler]

Everyone wants the economy to open and recover safely. Wearing a mask and social spacing are small concessions to lower the risk of another spike and shutdown of the economy. What's the alternative? Stay at home indefinitely?

 

[geekette]

.....Instead everything is declining...

this is not so

 

[Steve Fatula]

This is a great article about the problems happening with scientists in the age of covid. The bottom line is that not all scientists agree but many are attacking each other when their views are different. It seems like a lot of “science” is coming down to what you want to believe, even among scientists.

Scientists who express different views on Covid-19 should be heard, not demonized

Scientific consensus is important, but it isn't uncommon when some of the most important voices turn out to be those of independent thinkers whose views were initially doubted.

www.statnews.com

Here's another one for you, not my favorite publication but still, a very good article even I have to admit.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...avirus-advice-political?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-1

 

[klpca]

Not everyone is hooked up by IV to "the media". That is a personal choice made by all sides, friends. Me, no TV news ever (no cable), I read one local paper. I subscribe to one national publication but only read articles that interest me. I am not uninformed. I can easily access source data - in the case of Covid I use this source: https://www.sandiegocounty.gov/cont...mmunity_epidemiology/dc/2019-nCoV/status.html

I feel competent enough to read and digest information without anyone needing to interpret it for me. I am sure that the majority of citizens can do the same. The others who are glued to their TVs, youtube videos, Facebook "news" - well I can spot them a mile away because the talking points - again, all sides, friends - are all the same. All of the sudden people from all over my life are repeating the same information and talking points so I know that they heard it somewhere. I am hopeful that the common sense folks are the silent majority.

I admire those to try to supply factual information to folks who don't want to hear it, but I find it to be an absolute waste of time. I was raised in a family of arguers and dissenters. I have lived an entire lifetime of listening to people who think that medical doctors don't know anything and that everything can be treated by a chiropractor. That a raw food diet can cure my rheumatoid arthritis and that shade vegetables will cause my demise. That saccharine is a healthy alternative to sugar. My common sense told me that those beliefs are wrong, and experience has told me that I am right. You can see why I need to pass on these discussions. I broke my promise to myself to stay out of these discussions because I hate to perpetuate the arguments. So I will bow out now and leave it to the rest of you who find this interesting and invigorating.

 

[bnoble]

Very few people wore masks during the annual flu season, although masks might have reduced the transmission rate.

The difference is threefold. 1: the flu vaccine does provide some coverage, even if it is not perfect, 2: C19 has a higher R0 than infuenza, and 3: C19 has a higher case fatality rate than influenza.

In other words: more people are susceptible to C19, it spreads faster, and it kills more effectively than does the flu. There are also several poorly understood and potentially serious long-term complications that can happen for those who do "recover."

Second, such whataboutism doesn't really matter. The most credible science I've seen suggests that wearing masks is a way to protect ourselves and (more importantly IMO) those around us from a virus that is evidently nasty.

But people are forcing their beliefs on others

I'm not forcing my beliefs on you--I don't own a store, so I can't decide whether or not you should wear a mask in it. But I am judging you if you are in there without one on. The message I see when I see someone without a mask is either that they don't understand the situation, or they don't care that they might be an asymptomatic carrier.

I do have an issue with jail time/fines IF the business or community doesn't hand out FREELY and WIDELY available masks if they are going to be hard**** on enforcing it.

There's a third option for businesses: denying entry. The business is a private entity, and wearing a mask (or not) is not a protected class for the purposes of civil rights law as far as I know. For public accomodations (like public transit) I agree that having disposable masks available in the face of a requirement is a reasonable step that I hope most agencies are taking.

 

[TravelTime]

Maybe this is why women are more likely to wear masks.

 

[Ken555]

For public accomodations (like public transit) I agree that having disposable masks available in the face of a requirement is a reasonable step that I hope most agencies are taking.

In Singapore, here's an example of private enterprise providing free one-time use masks and selling them at a reasonable price in vending machines.

Razer will use face mask vending machines to distribute millions of face masks in Singapore

Razer, based in Singapore, is helping the government fight COVID-19.

www.theverge.com

 

[CO skier]

Maybe this is why women are more likely to wear masks.

The fashionable beachwear this summer is, apparently, the "tri-kini."

Sorry all, as a male I will not be wearing a "bi-kini" (swimsuit and face mask) and will stick with just the swim trunks for the pool and beach.

 

[Steve Fatula]

There's a third option for businesses: denying entry. The business is a private entity, and wearing a mask (or not) is not a protected class for the purposes of civil rights law as far as I know. For public accomodations (like public transit) I agree that having disposable masks available in the face of a requirement is a reasonable step that I hope most agencies are taking.

When I finally got a haircut yesterday (and yes I am a male), yes I really did, they had masks for me if I did not have one. And, they even were giving some out if you needed them for around town use. Why in the world would I not agree to their policy!? What harm would come to me?

I think this is one of the best ways to "enforce" use. I see nothing political, or rights arguments in this. Just wear the mask. No big deal.

 

[bnoble]

In Singapore, here's an example of private enterprise providing free one-time use masks and selling them at a reasonable price in vending machines.

Also, if you are interested in reusable masks and/or helping out a good cause, an Ann Arbor clothing manufacturer has a mask design that the University of Michigan Hospital has a (non-medical) use for; UMHS would like 10,000 of them. You can buy some for yourself and they will donate some to the hospital, or you can just pay for some to donate directly. I bought some. A good fit (others were too small) and comfortable.

Masks

Help Us Produce Masks - A Note From The Founders During these trying times, we have been working on producing non-medical reusable cloth masks and our latest prototype has been approved to donate to the University of Michigan hospital - they are requesting 10,000. Naturally, we would like to...

stateandliberty.com

I am a male [...] Just wear the mask. No big deal.

I am also male, and there are some reasons why some men don't want to---the "unwritten rules" that men are taught at a very early age and, perhaps surprisingly, enforce among each other. As part of my own addiciton recovery work, I started reading Mark Greene, who has written about this "man box culture." The short version: society has a pretty narrow definition of what it means to "be a man," and stepping outside that definition is often met with derision from the adults in our life when we are children, and the other men in our life when we are adults. That is a very powerful force that can "box" us into a role that is a caricature of our inner selves. In particular, appearing "feminine" (in this case, in the form of caring for others by wearing a mask) is often met with strong disapproval from a handful of other men with status, and we respond to it.

If you are interested in reading more about this idea, I highly recommend Mark's work. It has been an important part of my sobriety journey. http://remakingmanhood.com/

 

[geekette]

Maybe this is why women are more likely to wear masks.

You caught me! It's really all about the accessorizing...

 

[Steve Fatula]

I am also male, and there are some reasons why some men don't want to---the "unwritten rules" that men are taught at a very early age and, perhaps surprisingly, enforce among each other. As part of my own addiciton recovery work, I started reading Mark Greene, who has written about this "man box culture." The short version: society has a pretty narrow definition of what it means to "be a man," and stepping outside that definition is often met with derision from the adults in our life when we are children, and the other men in our life when we are adults. That is a very powerful force that can "box" us into a role that is a caricature of our inner selves. In particular, appearing "feminine" (in this case, in the form of caring for others) is often met with strong disapproval from a handful of other men with status, and we respond to it.

Believe me, I totally get this and understand what you are saying. I come from that culture, and mostly still am that culture. But, in life, we can't always get what we want. In the end though, you cannot box me into anything, if I allow you to, then I am the one who is weak. So, while I generally may conform to the unwritten rules, in this case, I choose otherwise I guess. The way I look at it, is, I have a wife who I have to consider, and she is in a super high risk group. If there is any minor benefit for me in wearing a mask (yes I know it's good for others), then I need to do that as I don't want her to die from it. She likely has a 10% chance of death, too high for me. That, and, despite the "rules", I don't consider caring for others to be feminine. I apologize to anyone offended by my old fashioned values, but caring for my family is in fact duty, not feminine.

 

[bnoble]

Believe me, I totally get this and understand what you are saying. I come from that culture, and mostly still am that culture. But, in life, we can't always get what we want. In the end though, you cannot box me into anything, if I allow you to, then I am the one who is weak.

Steve, that's the best I can ask of myself: that I am mindful of how I let those pressures influence my decisions. Good for you!

 

[geist1223]

¿How soon before this thread is locked? Our society has lots of rules that as Members of the Society we agree to follow or face the alternative - driving after consuming a certain amount of alcohol, driving reasonable speeds, not taking other peoples' property, getting a fishing license before you go fishing, getting a hunting license before hunting, having to pass a back ground check before purchasing a firearm from Cabela's, not being allowed to possess a firearm if you are a convicted felon or convicted of domestic assault, etc, etc.

¿So why all the fight about wearing a Mask?

 

[Panina]

¿How soon before this thread is locked? Our society has lots of rules that as Members of the Society we agree to follow or face the alternative - driving after consuming a certain amount of alcohol, driving reasonable speeds, not taking other peoples' property, getting a fishing license before you go fishing, getting a hunting license before hunting, having to pass a back ground check before purchasing a firearm from Cabela's, not being allowed to possess a firearm if you are a convicted felon or convicted of domestic assault, etc, etc.

¿So why all the fight about wearing a Mask?

This is a discussion with differing opinions more like a debate versus a fight.

 

[SteelerGal]

SoCal, OC region, and ppl are wearing masks. Most stores require in our area. Even restaurants indicate “ No mask, no service”. Dh and older kids wear masks as well.

 

[Monykalyn]

For public accomodations (like public transit) I agree that having disposable masks available in the face of a requirement is a reasonable step that I hope most agencies are taking.

Would probably end most of the "debate" right there. It would then be reasonable to refuse service if not followed.

My DD and her friend went out for frozen yogurt (yes it is OK-businesses are allowed to open here), but both she and friend have masks. Sitting outside to eat it constitutes a low risk as far as I can tell, while wearing the mask to order and stand in line inside.

It's in my nature to question the 'why' and 'science'-doesn't mean I'm not doing what is best or currently recommended

 

[SueDonJ]

¿How soon before this thread is locked? Our society has lots of rules that as Members of the Society we agree to follow or face the alternative - driving after consuming a certain amount of alcohol, driving reasonable speeds, not taking other peoples' property, getting a fishing license before you go fishing, getting a hunting license before hunting, having to pass a back ground check before purchasing a firearm from Cabela's, not being allowed to possess a firearm if you are a convicted felon or convicted of domestic assault, etc, etc.

¿So why all the fight about wearing a Mask?

For every one of those rules there are criminal laws on the books that mandate legally-imposed punishments when those laws are broken. There are very few places in the country, mostly in the hottest of hot spots, where it's criminal to not wear a mask. Those places have, though, considered imposing civil fines if there is strident and irrational protests by individuals to following the current - and *temporary* - restrictions that say you need to wear a mask if you're out in a situation where it's impossible to social distance six feet or more.

But the reason there needs to be any type of punishment, whether it's fines for civil infractions or 'mask shaming,' is because there simply isn't a cohesive and nationally-recognized plan in place to get the majority of the country open *safely.* Sure, there are isolated spots where masks are completely unnecessary. But there are far more spots where we are nowhere close to being ready to open despite the push from every direction to do it anyway, and that push is no doubt contributing to the mindset that makes people think that there's a need to scream FREEDOM!! CIVIL LIBERTIES!! YOU CAN'T MAKE ME DO IT!! if it's suggested that they wear a mask. What a ridiculous overreaction to a simple suggestion!

Wear a mask, don't wear a mask, do whatever you want. If you're lucky enough to live in an area that it's safe to go mask-less, chances are nobody is going to fine you or shame you anyway. But if you live where people are still newly contracting the virus and you're objecting to wearing a mask when you're out in public, you get no sympathy from me. I have no problem saying that while I'm home in a hot spot sewing mask after mask after mask after mask for the health care workers who STILL aren't able to obtain the professional PPE that they need, I am judging the people who aren't doing everything in their power to possibly shorten the length of time that these heroes are forced to work under ungodly circumstances.

 

[Panina]

I keep going back to basics.

When we look back, if masks did more good then not and we didn’t use them, how many more lives were lost? If they did nothing, nothing lost. This assumes we are educated to use masks properly.

If half the population is not going to business establishments because masks are not used, can these businesses survive? If those who really don’t want to wear a mask but did because it was a requirement and businesses had customers from a normal population base and thrived and survived, is wearing a mask such an inconvenience? The businesses you love do not close down.

Over time, with lots of reading, my opinions have changed. I wear a mask to protect others. I hope others wear a mask to protect me. If ultimately the mask is proven ineffective I am ok with the inconvenience of wearing one. I do not like wearing them but do.

I am frequenting businesses that choose to use masks. To me that means they are reaching out to the whole population.

 

[SueDonJ]

So you believe wearing masks outside of home will be a way of life until a vaccine is developed?

Unlike smoking, breathing cannot be limited to only designated outdoor areas.

Considering the very real possibility that a vaccine for COVID-19 may never come to fruition, like with AIDS, no I don't think mask-wearing will be with us *on the same basis as it is now* for the long term. But I do think that many of us will choose to wear masks from this point forward, similar to what we see people in other countries doing on a regular basis, and several of us TUGgers have been thinking about it since the early days of this pandemic. This exchange is from a thread back in March:

We will probably all have a wardrobe of masks after this. Should be required on all flights.

I've been wondering if that's one of the ways this crisis will permanently alter us. It seems like we've been seeing photos for years from China of people wearing masks while going about their regular business, and it won't come as a surprise if the practice becomes much more prevalent all over the world.

 

[Steve Fatula]

Required on all flights is ok with me, but I likely won't be impressed as I am thinking it's unlikely to come with any penalties. I can imagine, kids, adults, who will "adjust" or remove it for various reasons. Sadly. And then there are some valid reasons to partially remove it, such as long international flights where dehydration is a real issue.

Having never worn one prior to this, I am wondering how that is going to feel during our usual 3 months of 100+ degree humid degrees?

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Having never worn one prior to this, I am wondering how that is going to feel during our usual 3 months of 100+ degree humid degrees?

Sounds uncomfortable. Wouldn't you be inside with air conditioning during such weather? If you are outside and not around people, would you need to wear a mask? I don't wear a mask when I go walking and running because I socially distance.

 

[Steve Fatula]

Sounds uncomfortable. Wouldn't you be inside with air conditioning during such weather? If you are outside and not around people, would you need to wear a mask? I don't wear a mask when I go walking and running because I socially distance.

Absolutely *not* inside, hotter the better for me. The only time I was too hot was after 4 hours one day a few years back where it was not only quite humid, but 114 degrees. I started getting the initial signs of heat exhaustion while working outside in the yard. Heat index was around 140. Then I felt like a wimp. But I did go inside, had to admit defeat but blamed it on being older.

If there were any virus particles on me or clothing, they won't last long out there!

I suppose it wouldn't generally be necessary to wear one, I do tend to agree that when distancing, it's not necessary while hiking / whatever. I suppose walking from car to doctor or whatever is not very long, just not sure how it will feel! Maybe my face will sweat, have never experienced that.

 

[Monykalyn]

makes people think that there's a need to scream FREEDOM!! CIVIL LIBERTIES!! YOU CAN'T MAKE ME DO IT!!

I think the media tends to focus and therefore exaggerate the prevalence of these. Clickbait=$$ If you read beyond headlines (or look beyond the deliberately framed photo) you will find little fuss or even facts that relate to clickbait headline. But-the headline served its purpose and got you to look . One of my biggest gripes through all of this is the reckless way media has portrayed everything. There is responsible journalism out there-but that isn't being debated/discussed in 30 second sound bites.

 

[Monykalyn]

Absolutely *not* inside, hotter the better for me

Greetings fellow lizard!!