Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

[Y-ASK]

I find it very difficult to believe that Marriott has managed to develop the only timeshare system based on points in which the point totals do not have to correlate to the intervals available at each resort. The disclosures for the program that had to be filed to get this thing off the ground would require that correlation, and it wouldn't pass licensing restrictions without that. Marriott can do what other timeshare systems have done, which is to re-allocate points across intervals in response to demand, but Marriott cannot simply increase across the board every point requirement. Marriott can also increase point values as each new resort, if any, is rolled out, but that's also not the steady points inflation that you're insinuating.

Re-allocation and higher point values for newer resorts were included in that speculation thread and explained completely by folks familiar with point systems. I didn't see any of those folks support the contention of points inflation like you're suggesting here. Why don't you find the language in the available disclosures at your my-vacationclub.com page and post the link here for us to verify it?

This is my thought as well. I don't think it's legal to raise the number of points needed to stay at any existing resort across the board. The total number of points would always stay the same. They may increase the number pf points needed to stay during a July 4th week but they will have to reduce the exact number of points from a different week within the same resort. Or course new resorts are exempt from this until their weeks are put into the system. They can increase the points needed on new resorts to whatever they want but once they are in the system the totals remain the same across the board.

Y-ASK

 

[tombo]

The program as Marriott has outlined it is VERY similar to DVC's. I have complete confidence that it will work as well as DVCs and I have been using that point system for 18 years. .

Great to know it is working well at DVC. How does DVC divide inventory between points and weeks owners? Did DVC points resale values fall when DVC introduced weeks? Does DVC place all developer inventory into their new weeks program, or split it evenly between points and weeks? Does DVC raid points inventory from RCI to place into weeks inventory to help sell more weeks? Is it working out well having two different groups fighting for inventory that used to be all points? Are you glad that you bought DVC points but DVC decided instead to sell weeks and charge you to convert? Did you buy DVC because you liked points but feel forced to convert to weeks to keep access to DVC inventory? Does DVC only give you 6 days when you deposit a weeks wrth of points into the weeks inventory to cover their expenses and call it "breakage"? Since DVC has been using points for 18 years did you feel that it was time for them to change to weeks rather than sticking with what you purchased and liked?

Oh yeah, DVC sold everyone points and didn't change the program that everyone purchased. The situation at marriott and DVC is not similar.

 

[tombo]

This is my thought as well. I don't think it's legal to raise the number of points needed to stay at any existing resort across the board. The total number of points would always stay the same. They may increase the number pf points needed to stay during a July 4th week but they will have to reduce the exact number of points from a different week within the same resort. Or course new resorts are exempt from this until their weeks are put into the system. They can increase the points needed on new resorts to whatever they want but once they are in the system the totals remain the same across the board.

Y-ASK

Exactly. Raise points needed to reserve the weeks people actually want to reserve, and decrease the points required for off weeks. There are a lot more shoulder weeks per year than prime weeks (at most resorts), so large increases for prime weeks can easily be acheived while only decreasing shoulder weeks points levels slightly. You won't see a huge decrease in points required for bad weeks no one wants, but the increases for the most desired weeks can skyrocket while leaving the total number of points in the Trust the same. Please don't underestmate the legions of lawyers at Marriott. If we can think it up,they have already done a study on it. Of course in addition as you said points required for new resorts, those can be whatever marriott feels the market will bear.

 

[hipslo]

Anyone have any thoughts whether this would apply in the same way as it currently does in weeks, across DIFFERENT properties?

For example, would it be feasible for a premier plus owner to reserve a couple of days at a low point cost resort 13 months in advance of the first check in day, and then, without any gap in days, make a further reservation at the desired "target" resort for the desired high demand week, thus getting the points owner a jump of a couple of days over other points owners for the prime week at the prime resort, without having to burn the points required to make the reservation at the desired resort?

Or would these sorts of reservations all need to be made at the SAME resort?

I have looked at the legal docs and website descriptions on this issue and can't seem to find any guidance either way.

As an update, I was told over the phone today, by someone who at least seemed to know her stuff, that it does in fact work this way, that so long as reservations are for consecutive days, you can string them across different resorts and get into inventory at the desired resort earlier than 13 months in this manner, with premiere plus status.

On another front, if you have premiere plus status, even if you dont deposit any of your weeks for 2011, she told me that you can take advantage of the premiere plus status when making a reservation with the 800 bonus points, which is a nice benefit.

 

[scrapngen]

I have to disagree with you on two points (no pun intended) First, I only have one week at Ko Olina. It is worth 4025 points if I convert and use points. I used to have kids and needed a two bedroom now that it's just my wife and I, I only need a one bedroom or a studio. I save on lockoff fees along with the II exchange fee. In addition, I can travel off peak seasons and get multiple weeks. We don't lose anyhing if we decide to stay at our own resort. I just don't understand why people seem to think they don'e have enough points to stay in their own resort. That is false. You don't have to have additional points to stay in your own resort. You get to keep all of your previous benefits folks. You can still use II if you want. You can still rent out your unit. All that is different is the ability to convert to points and you don't have to do that if you do not want to it. In addition, if I travel with my platinum points to stay at resorts in other seasons, I can do this and save points. I can have more than one vacation with my 4025 weeks.

For the record, the end of the world as we knew is not coming. In the DRI system I use points. I have stayed a couple of weeks in a couple of units. I have never had problems staying anywhere in their system if I made reservations 10 or 12 months out.

Can you get a summer Maui, Kauiai, or even a summer NCV with your 2BR Platinum Koolina? (I believe the answer is no)

That's the point he was making... The vast majority woul agree that a 2BR Platinum Hawaii is like for like with either of those...

This is indeed the point I am making, thanks for the succinct explanation, Dan. AND while I do not need additional points to stay at my home resort during my Platinum Plus season as I will always be able to reserved it regardless of 12/13 month rules due to it being a fixed week, (I am much better off than most float owners due to this) I DO need additional points to stay almost all weeks at my home resort in Platinum season!!!! So I paid a premium to Marriott for my Platinum Plus week and it is valued the same as a Platinum week at my home resort and cannot even get many of those weeks, as it is at the lower end of the values. This is the same situation that occurred with some who paid a premium for Ocean View property yet are getting allocated the same points as those who paid a lot less for a lesser view. But Marriott obviously values those weeks as they will charge other points people a LOT more to access them. Not fair or necessary. They sold me a special week at a premium saying it had more value, and they STILL agree that it has more value based on the points it will take to reserve there, but when I turn it in for points, I am now - AT MY HOME RESORT (apples to apples) getting a return that is equivalent to a lesser season. This isn't reallocating the season to make it relate to the real rental values, this is taking away my value that I paid a premium for - and giving me far less, yet still reaping that premium from the person who now uses those days. It also applies to those who are given a lower value than ANY of the weeks in their season. These are all obvious, concrete examples of Marriott devaluing a purchase - this is not even skimming!

I wish people would stop saying that we don't have to pay additional points to stay at our own resort as we can just reserve as normal. Yes, I personally can reserve my fixed week and be assured of that date. Normal will not be the same, though, for owners of one floating week anymore. Their chances of getting reasonable weeks at their home resorts went way down now that anyone with enough points can trade in before them and also break up prime weeks so that no week owner can now get it. Sure there may be separate buckets, so they might still get a decent week at home resort. (we don't really know that but let's assume that will be the case.) We do know that Marriott can take out of II, so trading will definitely no longer be normal!! Yes, some speculation about just how bad it will be, but it seems pretty obvious to me that more than half are losers in this new game, whether or not they choose to participate. And it could have been different had Marriott not been so greedy with their points. Maybe the people here who do not go to points are just a drip in the bucket, so it doesn't matter. And maybe the ill will they have generated with these unfair allocations is also just some people here and there, but don't you think that hurting some of their owners who paid big bucks for specific views, or specific weeks was a bad move on their part???

 

[SueDonJ]

Exactly. Raise points needed to reserve the weeks people actually want to reserve, and decrease the points required for off weeks. There are a lot more off weeks per year than prime weeks (at most resorts), so large increases for prime weeks can easily be acheived while only decreasing shoulder weeks points levels slightly. You won't see a huge decrease in points required for bad weeks no one wants, but the increases for the most desired weeks can skyrocket while leaving the total number of points in the Trust the same. Please don't underestmate the legions of lawyers at Marriott. If we can think it up,they have already done a study on it. Of course in addition as you said points required for new resorts, those can be whatever marriott feels the market will bear.

The usage calendar is already pretty well allocated for demand; almost every resort's Season calendars have been redone in the Points system to reflect historical demand. At some resorts it's a minor adjustment, at others it's been adjusted drastically - as was speculated - because the Season designations didn't follow demand at all. Sure we can expect some re-allocation over time but even now the speculation about how demand will affect this system's success is all over the place. It doesn't matter how loudly or how much one or two or eighteen people scream about demand expectations - we won't know until time has passed.

But all of that has nothing to do with the fact that you are insinuating that each and every point value can and will be increased by Marriott to the point where any owner who enrolls today will not get the same usage value at the same resorts as exist today. That's simply not true. We all understand that certain weeks may become more or less valuable as re-allocations are done, but our points will get us the same usage in some fashion at the existing resorts. And just like with the MVCI system that existed last week, availability will be a major factor in whether or not an owner chooses to add to his portfolio in order to take advantage of any priority reservation period.

 

[Y-ASK]

Exactly. Raise points needed to reserve the weeks people actually want to reserve, and decrease the points required for off weeks. There are a lot more off weeks per year than prime weeks (at most resorts), so large increases for prime weeks can easily be acheived while only decreasing shoulder weeks points levels slightly. You won't see a huge decrease in points required for bad weeks no one wants, but the increases for the most desired weeks can skyrocket while leaving the total number of points in the Trust the same. Please don't underestmate the legions of lawyers at Marriott. If we can think it up,they have already done a study on it. Of course in addition as you said points required for new resorts, those can be whatever marriott feels the market will bear.

Yeah but there's a kind of "points mentality" that starts to take over when you start dealing with only points. It's a different mind set than one that is use to dealing with weeks only. You start to look at how far you can make your points go and not necessarily just at prime weeks alone. It really is a different mindset and you might surprise yourself by being able to stay longer or stay at more resorts than just your home resort.

The only problem I have with the system is that there is no home resort priority booking window. Even if the window is only one week, the owner of the resort should be able to reserve at their home resort (no where else) during that one week window and no other resort owner would be able to.

Y-ASK

 

[SueDonJ]

As an update, I was told over the phone today, by someone who at least seemed to know her stuff, that it does in fact work this way, that so long as reservations are for consecutive days, you can string them across different resorts and get into inventory at the desired resort earlier than 13 months in this manner, with premiere plus status.

On another front, if you have premiere plus status, even if you dont deposit any of your weeks for 2011, she told me that you can take advantage of the premiere plus status when making a reservation with the 800 bonus points, which is a nice benefit.

Good to know, thanks. For the record, I think I'd be one of the people Y-ASK is talking about who would try to stretch points as far as they'd go, so it's a pretty sure bet that I won't be one of the people you talked about in your other post who would waste points in order to get a jump on a reservation.

 

[hipslo]

Good to know, thanks. For the record, I think I'd be one of the people Y-ASK is talking about who would try to stretch points as far as they'd go, so it's a pretty sure bet that I won't be one of the people you talked about in your other post who would waste points in order to get a jump on a reservation.

The point cost at some places that would work well to do this with are REALLY cheap...

For me, with my low mf per point cost, potentially as low as $11 per day....

 

[SueDonJ]

The point cost at some places that would work well to do this with are REALLY cheap...

Haha. Nope, Marriott's not getting their grubby little paws on any points that I can use. :hysterical:

 

[scrapngen]

As an update, I was told over the phone today, by someone who at least seemed to know her stuff, that it does in fact work this way, that so long as reservations are for consecutive days, you can string them across different resorts and get into inventory at the desired resort earlier than 13 months in this manner, with premiere plus status.

On another front, if you have premiere plus status, even if you dont deposit any of your weeks for 2011, she told me that you can take advantage of the premiere plus status when making a reservation with the 800 bonus points, which is a nice benefit.

That seems like the same loophole that current users have been using to string reservations ahead to get to July 4th etc with several weeks fronting it that they later trade/use/rent. But this will make it even easier for those Premier Plus users to swiss cheese a lot of resorts at once to get prime dates for use or rent. I'd really be working the numbers to see how I could stay a few days here or there ahead of the prime dates I want so I'd always get all that I want at a reasonable point usage. Of course, I wouldn't really do that much, as it would work better for those who can drive to several different resorts for short stays. Actually, I think HI resorts might also find that good weeks get taken by short stays due to people being able to island hop. Life has changed for sure!

 

[5infam]

Question for those that are converting to points!!!

I have been following this thread since the beginning and posted a few times here and there, more in an effort to figure things out than to fight with anyone. However, I do find the posts from those that will be going or have already bought into points interesting (Sue, Wuv Pooh, etc.) as at least we are getting both sides of the argument, and I tend to be suspicious and lend my thinking towards not trusting this new system (which is in line with all the other posters). So with that, here is what I have and how I use it - and I am interested to see what the points supporters have to say in regards to it being a worthwile endeavour to join points or not - if they were me. Of course, those that disagree with points should chime in and well. Here goes:

1. I own 1 week every year at Maui Ocean Club, mtn/grdn view, that I purchased on the resale market. Trade in value for points is 3,100. It will take 3,550 points to get a summer week in the same view/unit, which is the only time I go now.

2. When I bought, I planned on going to Maui every year and using it, with the occassional trade. However, air fare has gone nuts, and I have 3 kids, so air for 5 people has gotten crazy. So, for the past several years, I have traded my Maui week into II, for the identical week the following year - waited to get my confirmation which was always 12 months out (so clearly I was getting priority in the trade), and receiving an AC for my trouble, which I have used in flex period for some nice things. Then, I would book my regular week connecting to the trade and would stay for 2 weeks; thus maximizing my air costs. Going to any Hawaii resorts for 1 to 3 or 4 days is not a good option for me as the cost for air is not cheap.

3. My fees are my II membership, which I pay for the 5 year plan; and also the fee to exchange Marriott to Marriott, which I pay every other year. I have a 1bdr unit, so no lock off fees for me. Joining points costs me $1,495 - one time, plus $165 per year. I think I may save money on my current plan by just paying II, but I can't remember what my II 5 year fees are, so I need help with that, and figuring at what point I break even on the $1,495 - if at all?

4. I also made a decision a few years back to not go to Hawaii, due to costs, and trade my 1bdr to Newport for a 2bdr in the summer - which I got through II, and also got an AC for doing so. It appears with points, that direct exchange would never happen again. I also traded my 2010 4th of July week into II as a deposit first (got an AC as well), in 2009 - and requested a summer week in 2011 so I can go 2 weeks - so II has my 2010 week now, and I am waiting on the request to be fulfilled.

5. I like points programs, as I own DVC - but this is different as it appears there are uncertaintees as to where II can pull their inventory, and I dread over the fact that there is no Home Resort priority in all of this. In the Marriott FAQ, I believe it states something like the availability can come from trades into points and the Marriott Rewards exchanges, but also from II - so unless they put in writing that they will not take any II exchange whether it comes in from a points participant or not; then I must assume that they can take whatever they want - as their FAQ language is vague - so I have to assume the worst to protect myself, right? This is my biggest concern where I may have to join. If Marriott can do this, then it is not business as usual for weeks owners who trade weeks for weeks, especially for people like me who trade back into their own resort, and who now with II, get top priority in the exchange. It appears that Marriott can raid II for points people, or any other purpose, and it is not clear that I will get my same priority that I have now - which by the way, is what sold me on Marriott to begin with.

This is how it breaks down for me and my family. Any advice on the Positive/Negative side would be greatly appreciated. I already know about the "skim" vs. the "no-skim" arguments, and comparing Marriott to Enron, BP and Frito Lay, etc. However, I am looking for you smart Tuggers to help me make a solid financial decision; which is how I see this at the end of the day.

Thanks in advance!!!

Frank

 

[SueDonJ]

That seems like the same loophole that current users have been using to string reservations ahead to get to July 4th etc with several weeks fronting it that they later trade/use/rent. But this will make it even easier for those Premier Plus users to swiss cheese a lot of resorts at once to get prime dates for use or rent. I'd really be working the numbers to see how I could stay a few days here or there ahead of the prime dates I want so I'd always get all that I want at a reasonable point usage. Of course, I wouldn't really do that much, as it would work better for those who can drive to several different resorts for short stays. Actually, I think HI resorts might also find that good weeks get taken by short stays due to people being able to island hop. Life has changed for sure!

Now this way I would definitely take advantage of, stringing together days I'd actually use. 5 days each at 3 different Hilton Head resorts and maybe a couple days tacked on at Myrtle Beach would be nice ....

Hmmm. This brings up a question. What about the lists that some resorts have published for unit placement? Both my resorts have them and include them with the GM's annual letter. Where do Destination Club folks fit on those lists? Do Enrolled keep their home resort placement? Where and how will new DC owners be on the list?

 

[winger]

Oh yea. I spoke with a rep, and a "point specialist," yesterday, and they both suggested that I buy more points.

Very nice........I buy 2 weeks directly from Marriott, and now can not exchange back in to either of them unless I pay an additional $9,200, and $400 more in maintenance fees.
...

sorry if already answered, I am still catching up.

If you want to reserve your week in your season, you do NOT need to convert to points, then use the points to reserve back in. Yes, although this method is doable, it's the stupid way (b/c you then likely need MORE points).

Rather then above method, you just call owner svcs and book your week 13 month in advance (since you have 2 weeks). NOTHING to do with points, at all.

DONE.

 

[mauiwowie]

I'm new to this group being brought in by the latest development at MVC. I can't condemn this new system completely as it does bring some new flexibilty, it seems to do so at a hefty price for those of us who are not retired and/or completely flexible in our time schedule.

I own one week floating 2bd LO at MOC Lahaina Tower. We bought mainly to use at the resort and bought from Marriott because we were naive and my husband really wanted a nice, new resort on the beachwalk. When we purchased we understood our odds of getting a prime week at our resort and we were willing to accept those odds. Now with the new system, it seems that our odds will be changed from what is written in our deed, if not illegally, at least practically. I'm not a gambler, because I know that the house has the advantage, but in this case I mistakenly thought that the odds wouldn't change since there are a fixed number of units and ownership intervals. I guess I was wrong.

As I understand it, it is completely within Marriott's control to assign which weeks are assigned to corresponding points, thereby leaving me with potentially no chance of getting a prime week. I understand that with a floating week, I was not guaranteed to get any specific week, but at least I knew the odds. For example, if there are 30 intervals available and 50 weeks sold, I was potentially competing against 1499 other owners for any particular week and since 50% of those unit could go to multiple week owners, we were in essence competing for 15 units. Not great odds, but at least they were obvious. Now that anyone who has 6500+ points can make a reservation for that week 13 months in advance, there's the potential that someone who doesn't own at the resort can get a week at my resort, before I even have a shot at making a reservation (@12 months out). If Marriott reserves all of the 4th of July weeks for the benefit of high points purchasers, then theorhetically, there may be no units available when it's my day to book. Please someone correct me if this assumption is wrong and I'm just being paranoid
Why is it that all other points programs that I've toured give a twelve month booking window to owners at the resort and restricts traders to a seven month window and Marriott is not offering this protection?

To those people who don't understand why the new system seems unfair, it is especially unfair to those of us that were sold lock-offs being told that we could get two weeks of travel for any week in our season. Under the II system, I at least knew that I had priority over any other non-Maui owners to trade back for another week at my resort, so if I was not able to get the two units booking directly through Marriott reservations, I had some confidence that I would be high on the list to get it from II (of course nothing was guaranteed) and my trade would not cost me a premium beyond the $109 exchange fee. This was a major selling point for us and was confirmed in writing in the II terms and conditions.

But now that Marriott has the right to take weeks from Interval, my chance of getting that week is highly questionable. Even if I still have the same priority through II, if Marriott has the right to draw II inventory, then there's nothing in there for me to get. It may be legal for Marriott to take those weeks from II and give them to a non-owner who purchases lots of points, but it surely was deceptive of Marriott to tell us that we would have priority by paying a very steep premium to own in Maui, and now having effectively eliminated that priority. Can someone clarify this too, if I'm not understanding correctly?

FYI, post June 20, 2010 only resale units sold through Marriott will be eligible for the points program. At least DVC lets you sell your own points, without them taking a cut of the already depreciated value!

 

[rsackett]

...When we purchased we understood our odds of getting a prime week at our resort and we were willing to accept those odds. Now with the new system, it seems that our odds will be changed from what is written in our deed, if not illegally, at least practically. I'm not a gambler, because I know that the house has the advantage, but in this case I mistakenly thought that the odds wouldn't change since there are a fixed number of units and ownership intervals. I guess I was wrong.

As I understand it, it is completely within Marriott's control to assign which weeks are assigned to corresponding points, thereby leaving me with potentially no chance of getting a prime week. I understand that with a floating week, I was not guaranteed to get any specific week, but at least I knew the odds. For example, if there are 30 intervals available and 50 weeks sold, I was potentially competing against 1499 other owners for any particular week and since 50% of those unit could go to multiple week owners, we were in essence competing for 15 units. Not great odds, but at least they were obvious. Now that anyone who has 6500+ points can make a reservation for that week 13 months in advance, there's the potential that someone who doesn't own at the resort can get a week at my resort, before I even have a shot at making a reservation (@12 months out). If Marriott reserves all of the 4th of July weeks for the benefit of high points purchasers, then theorhetically, there may be no units available when it's my day to book. Please someone correct me if this assumption is wrong and I'm just being paranoid
Why is it that all other points programs that I've toured give a twelve month booking window to owners at the resort and restricts traders to a seven month window and Marriott is not offering this protection?

To those people who don't understand why the new system seems unfair, it is especially unfair to those of us that were sold lock-offs being told that we could get two weeks of travel for any week in our season. Under the II system, I at least knew that I had priority over any other non-Maui owners to trade back for another week at my resort, so if I was not able to get the two units booking directly through Marriott reservations, I had some confidence that I would be high on the list to get it from II (of course nothing was guaranteed) and my trade would not cost me a premium beyond the $109 exchange fee. This was a major selling point for us and was confirmed in writing in the II terms and conditions.

But now that Marriott has the right to take weeks from Interval, my chance of getting that week is highly questionable. Even if I still have the same priority through II, if Marriott has the right to draw II inventory, then there's nothing in there for me to get. It may be legal for Marriott to take those weeks from II and give them to a non-owner who purchases lots of points, but it surely was deceptive of Marriott to tell us that we would have priority by paying a very steep premium to own in Maui, and now having effectively eliminated that priority. Can someone clarify this too, if I'm not understanding correctly?

FYI, post June 20, 2010 only resale units sold through Marriott will be eligible for the points program. At least DVC lets you sell your own points, without them taking a cut of the already depreciated value!

Welcome to TUG!

From your post I can tell that I like you already!

Ray

 

[SueDonJ]

... This is how it breaks down for me and my family. Any advice on the Positive/Negative side would be greatly appreciated. I already know about the "skim" vs. the "no-skim" arguments, and comparing Marriott to Enron, BP and Frito Lay, etc. However, I am looking for you smart Tuggers to help me make a solid financial decision; which is how I see this at the end of the day.

Thanks in advance!!!

Frank

Frank, right off you and I begin with a different perspective - you want a solid financial decision and I want the best usage possible from timeshares. But I'll give it a go anyway and hopefully you'll get a nice mix to help you figure it out for yourself.

Your usage currently is with II exchanges. If you don't enroll you can continue to use II, but I agree with you and the others who are speculating that Marriott can and will pull weeks inventory from II to satisfy points requests. That's a major concern, and I think much more so for you and every other owner who have to consider their young kids' school schedules. (I'm guessing?) Availability will be an issue no matter what you do if your vacations fall during high-demand times.

I'm sure it's not the ideal situation, especially financially, but with II exchanges so questionable and home resort usage not being ideal for you now, I'd choose points if I was in your shoes. The one thing you have going for you is that a Maui week gives you more points than most single-week owners who will be enrolling. And I know, that's not saying much. But you could play with the points charts and try to get one or two 5-day weekday stays in a resort out west (closer to home I'm assuming, what with Hawaii as your home resort?) You would also be able to bank/borrow if your heart is set on something that requires more points than you own, although I realize that limits your points much more than they already are.

One thing I am really hoping for is access to II Getaway inventory in the points system. Some of us have been told yes, others have been told no, who knows at this point? But that's another way to possibly stretch your vacation options.

I hope this helps and I wish I could be more positive for you. For the record (before somebody calls me a Marriott apologist again ) if you said that you just want to stay at your home resort, I would not suggest enrolling for you. The old system definitely gets the advantage for usage of single weeks at the home resorts.

Good luck deciding! You have a lot of time - the 12/31/10 deadline is for this enrollment price and this 800-point incentive, but you can still enroll after that.

 

[5infam]

Thanks Sue. I am not sure we have different perspectives, as I want to get the most out of my vacations as well - but I add the financial part into it as it is $1,495, plus annual fees, and that is a good sized financial commitment.

I understand what you are saying about splitting up weeks near home if need be using points, but that is more of a rare occassion and I really want to use my home resort (Hawaii) by trading back in most times, and it sounds like we have the same concern that doing so maybe limited. I own DVC, and love my points and use my Boardwalk Villas points to stay near my home at Disneyland on occassion, so I get that idea. So with that, you are suggesting that I buy into points, correct? My question is, since I want to simply trade back into my own resort most of the time, so I can stay 2 weeks - how does joining points help me accomplish that?

Again, not picking fights, and not accusing anyone of anything...just asking so I understand perspectives.

Thanks!!

 

[Slakk]

Great to know it is working well at DVC. How does DVC divide inventory between points and weeks owners? Did DVC points resale values fall when DVC introduced weeks? Does DVC place all developer inventory into their new weeks program, or split it evenly between points and weeks? Does DVC raid points inventory from RCI to place into weeks inventory to help sell more weeks? Is it working out well having two different groups fighting for inventory that used to be all points? Are you glad that you bought DVC points but DVC decided instead to sell weeks and charge you to convert? Did you buy DVC because you liked points but feel forced to convert to weeks to keep access to DVC inventory? Does DVC only give you 6 days when you deposit a weeks wrth of points into the weeks inventory to cover their expenses and call it "breakage"? Since DVC has been using points for 18 years did you feel that it was time for them to change to weeks rather than sticking with what you purchased and liked?

Oh yeah, DVC sold everyone points and didn't change the program that everyone purchased. The situation at marriott and DVC is not similar.

I have been a DVCmember for years and I don't find it anything like DVC. First DVC points are tied to a resort. At the 11 month mark people withe points at that resort can make reservations. At the 7 month mark EVRYONE can reserve at ANY resort (what is left over).

Some resort stays are cheaper than others but if you bought enough points to stay in a 2BR Savannah view at Animal Kingdom you may not have enough to stay in a 2 BR Magic Kingdom View at Bay Lake Tower, however your points do not diminish when you try and move out of your home resort.

Meaning I don't have 150 HHI points but that turns into 125 when I want to stay somewhere else. Honestly with DVC points there is no real value for the most part to trade in RCI (I know some people do but it is not a good use of points), you use DVC points for DVC stays.

I do know this if DVC tried to pull this it would not be this polite. People would riot.

 

[SueDonJ]

Thanks Sue. I am not sure we have different perspectives, as I want to get the most out of my vacations as well - but I add the financial part into it as it is $1,495, plus annual fees, and that is a good sized financial commitment.

I understand what you are saying about splitting up weeks near home if need be using points, but that is more of a rare occassion and I really want to use my home resort (Hawaii) by trading back in most times, and it sounds like we have the same concern that doing so maybe limited. I own DVC, and love my points and use my Boardwalk Villas points to stay near my home at Disneyland on occassion, so I get that idea. So with that, you are suggesting that I buy into points, correct? My question is, since I want to simply trade back into my own resort most of the time, so I can stay 2 weeks - how does joining points help me accomplish that?

Again, not picking fights, and not accusing anyone of anything...just asking so I understand perspectives.

Thanks!!

I am suggesting points, yes, because I wouldn't want to rely on II working the same way as it has in the past for you. MOC summer weeks are high demand, aren't they? There's a good possibility that those deposits will be scooped for points exchange requests which would severely affect your typical usage of trading back in. If you enroll in points you won't be able to to do your every-other-year two-week trip at your home resort, that's for sure, but I'm not sure that you can count on it continuing either if you don't enroll. At least if you do enroll, you open up possibilities for new vacation ideas. If you don't enroll and what we're expecting with II happens, what will you do with your one MOC week? (If the answer to that is reserve it like usual and go every year, then enrolling isn't what you should do.)

I sure do hope somebody else comes in here to answer your questions, too. It's important to get a few different perspectives when you have doubts or concerns.

And don't worry, Frank, we don't all fight with everyone all of the time. Ask away, and hopefully we can help you figure out what's best for you.

 

[DanCali]

Thanks Sue. I am not sure we have different perspectives, as I want to get the most out of my vacations as well - but I add the financial part into it as it is $1,495, plus annual fees, and that is a good sized financial commitment.

I understand what you are saying about splitting up weeks near home if need be using points, but that is more of a rare occassion and I really want to use my home resort (Hawaii) by trading back in most times, and it sounds like we have the same concern that doing so maybe limited. I own DVC, and love my points and use my Boardwalk Villas points to stay near my home at Disneyland on occassion, so I get that idea. So with that, you are suggesting that I buy into points, correct? My question is, since I want to simply trade back into my own resort most of the time, so I can stay 2 weeks - how does joining points help me accomplish that?

Again, not picking fights, and not accusing anyone of anything...just asking so I understand perspectives.

Thanks!!

option 1) You call at 12 months, reserve the highest demand week possible, rent it out, then rent two weeks in smaller units from other owners.

option 2) You call at 12 months, reserve the highest demand week possible, deposit in II, and do a 2 for 1 trade.

option 3) Sell your MOC, but a Westin Kaanapali resale with 148K Starwood Options, then call with home resort priority up to 8 months ahead and book a 1BR for 81K Options and a studio for 67K options.

The Marriott points system won't help your cause with any of these options.

 

[SueDonJ]

I have been a DVCmember for years and I don't find it anything like DVC. First DVC points are tied to a resort. At the 11 month mark people withe points at that resort can make reservations. At the 7 month mark EVRYONE can reserve at ANY resort (what is left over).

Some resort stays are cheaper than others but if you bought enough points to stay in a 2BR Savannah view at Animal Kingdom you may not have enough to stay in a 2 BR Magic Kingdom View at Bay Lake Tower, however your points do not diminish when you try and move out of your home resort.

Meaning I don't have 150 HHI points but that turns into 125 when I want to stay somewhere else. Honestly with DVC points there is no real value for the most part to trade in RCI (I know some people do but it is not a good use of points), you use DVC points for DVC stays.

I'm surprised. I see a lot of similarity at least with the points charts - being able to choose the number of days, the resort, the view ... that flexibility is my favorite thing about DVC. If Don loved Disney the way I do, and if DVC had resorts at as many places as Marriott, that's what we would have bought.

In a sense, x amount of points at one DVC resort does turn into y at another, because the points charts are different at every resort. That is a diminished value of a sort - you cannot book the same size room for the same week at different resorts and expect to pay the same points. I do understand what you're saying about your 150 OKW points not turning into 125 BCV points automatically, but your 150 OKW points won't get you the same villa size and length of stay for the same dates at BCV as you would get at OKW.

It's like Tombo says - DVC doesn't have these issues because DVC didn't roll out a points option on top of a weeks system. Who knows how they would have done it if they had? Considering that reports are it's a DVC braintrust behind this whole design, I'd guess chances are good that if DVC had to do what Marriott's had to do to get into points, it would look very similar.

I do know this if DVC tried to pull this it would not be this polite. People would riot.

The disboards would probably explode. I once saw an 18-page thread over there about whether or not Cast Members who didn't say "Welcome Home" to members, or did say it to non-members, at check-in should be formally reprimanded. It would take a lot less than this for DVC folks to riot.

 

[tombo]

But all of that has nothing to do with the fact that you are insinuating that each and every point value can and will be increased by Marriott to the point where any owner who enrolls today will not get the same usage value at the same resorts as exist today. That's simply not true. We all understand that certain weeks may become more or less valuable as re-allocations are done, but our points will get us the same usage in some fashion at the existing resorts. .

Really? Did Marriott put that in writing or did your sales rep tell you this? If you feel or assume that you are going to the same usage at existing resorts for your points then I am sorry to say this, but you need to read the contract. They do NOT guarantee that your points will get any usage simlar to what they get when you buy them. Please go by the contract you so love to defend. The contract says Marriott can change point values at any time for any reason, and as you are so fond of saying, that is all Marriott promised you. So yes like rewards points they can and will devalue them over time, it is written in the contract.

 

[SueDonJ]

Really? Did Marriott put that in writing or did your sales rep tell you this? If you feel or assume that you are going to the same usage at existing resorts for your points then I am sorry to say this, but you need to read the contract. They do NOT guarantee that your points will get any usage simlar to what they get when you buy them. Please go by the contract you so love to defend. The contract says Marriott can change point values at any time for any reason, and as you are so fond of saying, that is all Marriott promised you. So yes like rewards points they can and will devalue them over time, it is written in the contract.

I see you didn't find the language. Or did you forget to put the link here?

They do not guarantee that values on the points charts will not change. Yep, it's right there on the chart itself. But they do not have the right to increase all points in a points chart for a single resort across the board, the way you're insinuating. They can re-allocate according to demand, which means that the days/unit I might get today for 1000 points might be 1200 sometime in the future, but that will have to be offset by a 200 point reduction somewhere else in the calendar. They cannot simply add 200 or however many points to every value whenever they please.

 

[tombo]

I see you didn't find the language. Or did you forget to put the link here?

They do not guarantee that values on the points charts will not change. Yep, it's right there on the chart itself. But they do not have the right to increase all points in a points chart for a single resort across the board, the way you're insinuating. They can re-allocate according to demand, which means that the days/unit I might get today for 1000 points might be 1200 sometime in the future, but that will have to be offset by a 200 point reduction somewhere else in the calendar. They cannot simply add 200 or however many points to every value whenever they please.

Did you find that in writing. If dealing with Marriott has taught me anything it is no matter what you are told or promised, if it isn't in writing, it doesn't count.