Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

[SueDonJ]

Some of the Marriott apologists on the board are inclined to blame the legacy owners for relying on the explanations of Marriott’s sales staff over the past 20 + years as to how the system would work. The apologists, ignoring the fact that the sales staff was well trained by Marriott in what to say, suggest that we should have ignored what the sales staff was telling us because there statements were not in writing and were not binding contracts. ...

Oh for the love of Pete ...

"Marriott apologists." Really? Is that what we're now calling the folks who understand what's been sold to them? Who don't see a legal violation in the product now being offered? Who might choose to enroll because the way it works might be better for them? You think that we're apologizing for Marriott? No, w'ere not. We're just facing the reality that it doesn't matter how Marriott has made us feel, what matters is whether the good in the product outweighs the bad.

For years I've been reading post after post after post after post from everyone on TUG that says, "Salespeople lie. If they're lips are moving, they're lying. Rescind, they lied. Sales weasels are the lowest of the low. They lie." For years I've been reading post after post after post that says, "Buy resale, you'll save money. Thousands less. Marriott isn't exercising ROFR, bid low. Don't buy developer, you'll be spending thousands more and plus you'll be a sucker. Buy resale, really, most folks don't know it but there are savings to be had on the resale market."

Now you expect me to believe that folks are surprised that Marriott sales reps sometimes don't get everything right, and that there is genuine surprise and outrage over the fact that Marriott didn't protect the resale values of all existing weeks with this rollout. I'm sorry, I don't buy any of it. Some used the sales staff's poor reputation when it suited their purpose, and some took advantage of the inherent devaluation in timeshare purchases when it suited their purpose. They can't cry "Foul!" now and expect to be believed.

 

[RandR]

No offense, but who are you (not just RandR, but a bunch of people) kidding when you say "no lockoff fees?" Please don't be naive.

Isn't the fact that a 1BR + studio points > 2BR points effectively a lockoff fee? Given the $400 for 800 points "consensus", multiply that by about $0.50 per point to find out what it amounts to.

Here are some examples, (based on points required to trade in):

MOC IV Studio + 1BR Feb 18: 2700 + 3850 = 6550
MOC IV 2BR Feb 18: 5675

Difference: 875 points ($437 "lockoff fee")


MGV Studio + 2BR Feb 25: 1575 + 3175 = 4750
MGV 3BR Feb 25: 4225

Difference: 525 points ($262 "lockoff fee")

Timberlodge Studio + 1BR Feb 18: 2675 + 3675 = 6350
Timberlodge 2BR Feb 18: 5675

Difference: 675 points ($337 "lockoff fee")

Timberlodge Studio + 2BR Jan 7: 1950 + 4225 = 6175
Timberlodge 3BR Jan 7: 5225

Difference: 950 points ($475 "lockoff fee")

To be fair, there are a few select weeks where a 3BR Timberlodge is worth more than a studio + a 2BR, but that's the exception at that resort as well as in the entire system.

For the owners who were willing to pay me $400 for 800 points should I convert, I assume you value a point at more than $0.50, so feel free to use your own conversion rate to see what the lockoff fees truly are.

Point well taken. I was though just referring to the actual cash outlay that the person was talking about.

 

[tombo]

So let me get this straight. I can still reserve and deposit my week with II. Let's see that is exactly what I could do before. And I can bank that week in my II account for a couple of years if I want. Let's see that is exactly what I could do before. And I can trade for the same number of Marriott Rewards points as I could before. Let's see that's.... And I can reserve the size and view that I own in the season that I own at my home resort. Let's see that's.... And I can do all of these as long as I am willing to stay for exactly seven days and can live with some uncertainty as to what I can get in exchange via II or if I can get anything at all. But if I spend $595 (or in my case $1495) then I can reduce the fees that I pay, make just one call to reserve anywhere, any size, any view, any length of vacation and know exactly what it will cost in points and know with certainty where and when I am going before I hang up the phone, and I can bank or borrow points in flexible amounts if I choose to do so in any given year, which I was never able to do before, and that amounts to skimming?
Ok, then. Skim me some more, please.

If you want to do exactly as you could before, why convert to points? The skim only happens when you deposit your week to points. Of course if you convert to points and deposit your week, Marriott will imediatelly take points from you when you deposit. The cost of the points they skim will cost you more than the $109 II exchange fee, so not reduced fees, increased fees, but you don't mind, skim away. The points you are left with after marriott's skim won't get you a trade equal to what you deposited, but you love it and don't want to get resorts/weeks/seasons equal to what you deposited, so Marriott skim away. If you exchange for a lock-off 1 bed or studio, the combined total of the points charged for the studio and one bed room will be much higher than the total points needed to reserve the whole 2 bed room, so you got skimmed and charged hundreds of dollars more to lock-off (for specific details read dancali's post 1354), but as you said skim away.

Marriott Destination and Marriott sales people have got to love customers who know that they are having points stolen from them every time they deposit and exchange but who buy anyway. Drink the Kool-aid all ye who believe. Ignore those falling down around you and those warning you that the Kool-aid is bad. Just blindly trust Marriott and drink the Kool-aid.........

 

[steveg11]

I have a week worth 5000 points. I deposit it with Marriott. They give me fewer points than the value of what I gave them. They pocket the difference. Whether you want to call them con men, theives, or simply unethical businessmen, the end result is I don't get the full value of the ponts allocated to my week.

I purchased the week which Marriott determined to be worth 5000 points, I pay MF's on it, I pay $165 a year to be able to swap my week into points to do exchanges, I paid $1495 for the ability to use points, and after all of my financial outlay Marriott feels that they should have the right to skim 7% to 10% of the value of what I own and paid to use. Is it technically theft? No because if I give them my week I knew what I was getting for it, but it is still theft in my opinion because they leave you no choice other than to be locked out of the points program and possibly make what you own almost worthless.

Of course the reality of the points program will preclude myself and many others from joining. They will operate it whithout any contribution of weeks or infusion of cash from me, and I hope the points venture is a resounding bust. The more owners that know the true details, the fewer owners I believe will convert, and many of those who mistakenly convert will never deposit their week for points after they discover that marriott will give them less points for their deposit than it is worth. Time will tell.

I work for a company who buys my labor at a rate far below what I in my own wise opinion feel that it is worth. I decide how much my labor is worth because if it takes me one hour to make a widget and I make $10 per hour, then the widget should also sell for $10. The company is skimming my time if they actually collect $11 per hour for my work by charging $11 for that widget that I made.
How dare they!
Right? Same logic as the "great Marriott skim conspiracy".

 

[ArtsieAng]

So let me get this straight. I can still reserve and deposit my week with II. Let's see that is exactly what I could do before. And I can bank that week in my II account for a couple of years if I want. Let's see that is exactly what I could do before.

That's questionable at this point....Many here have been told that unless you pay for an additional II account, you must deposit your week into a Marriott corporate account, and you would not be able to do online searches in II.

And I can trade for the same number of Marriott Rewards points as I could before. Let's see that's....


Yup, that's true


And I can reserve the size and view that I own in the season that I own at my home resort. Let's see that's....


Well, you can, but you might not be getting anything more than a shoulder week. No home resort priority, combined with the new 13 month rule for premier/pp owners, may eliminate all the high demand weeks.



And I can do all of these as long as I am willing to stay for exactly seven days and can live with some uncertainty as to what I can get in exchange via II or if I can get anything at all.

Personally, I've gotten most exchanges that I've ever requested from II, along with AC's for my deposits.

But if I spend $595 (or in my case $1495) then I can reduce the fees that I pay, make just one call to reserve anywhere, any size, any view, any length of vacation and know exactly what it will cost in points and know with certainty where and when I am going before I hang up the phone, and I can bank or borrow points in flexible amounts if I choose to do so in any given year, which I was never able to do before, and that amounts to skimming?
Ok, then. Skim me some more, please.

I'm really hoping that you're a premier plus owner because I honestly believe that's what's its going to take for you to have any chance at your above scenario. Me, I'm not so lucky.....I would have been happy simply being able to exchange my alloted points for a like for like trade. But unfortunately, no can do, under this new system.

 

[floyddl]

I'm really hoping that you're a premier plus owner because I honestly believe that's what's its going to take for you to have any chance at your above scenario. Me, I'm not so lucky.....I would have been happy simply being able to exchange my alloted points for a like for like trade. But unfortunately, no can do, under this new system.

The tough part for the ordinary point member is that if you want to trade your 7 day week for 6 days of points you have to wait until the 10 month window opens to reserve less than 7 days. Of course you could deposit this year and next year's points to do it and forego 2 years at your home resort. But alas, those nice guys at Marriott will help you by selling you more points. So three issues for a one week owner like me: 1) limited to no inventory at prime locations/times available at 10 months, 2) who wants to give up their home resort for 2 years to reserve one week at 12 months, and 3) who wants to buy more points. To have any chance at decent resorts/weeks I have to trade weeks or the price becomes prohibitive for me.

 

[Michigan Czar]

I am really concerned about my reservation ability at 12 months out. Even if they keep the 50% inventory available at 13 months and 50% at 12 months. Now at 12 months I will be competing with other Maui owners which was difficult enough but now I get the pleasure of also competing with every point owner that decides they want to go to Maui the same week that I do.

Is anyone else at all concerned about this? Or am I just not understanding the new program?

 

[RandR]

Now you expect me to believe that folks are surprised that Marriott sales reps sometimes don't get everything right

First I will acknowledge that not all salespeople lie. I think it is great that you got a top notch person to work with who you trust. But to say that they sometimes don't get everything right? Come on!!

Go to a sales office, any sales office, and watch them walk people around showing them all the great places they can trade their timeshare for. They take out the thick II book and say 'you can trade your ts into any of these places.' Of course people are responsible for knowing what is in the contract but many people have a problem that can screw them up......trust. When they spend 1 - 2 hours with someone who keeps telling them that they CAN trade to all these exciting places, They listen. They assume that since they are sitting in a room with a salesperson from Marriott, a well respected company, that the person can't be completely lying since a well respected company like Marriott wouldn't let them. Oops, their bad. Sure Marriott would.

Many people inherrently trust others. Many (not all) timeshare salespeople prey on this. So sure it is ultimately the buyers responsibility to know what they are getting into but even you have to admit that Marriott holds some of the blame for letting some of their salespeople outright lie to people.

 

[tombo]

I work for a company who buys my labor at a rate far below what I in my own wise opinion feel that it is worth. I decide how much my labor is worth because if it takes me one hour to make a widget and I make $10 per hour, then the widget should also sell for $10. The company is skimming my time if they actually collect $11 per hour for my work by charging $11 for that widget that I made.
How dare they!
Right? Same logic as the "great Marriott skim conspiracy".

The widget is a product you an employee make which your employer sells for a profit. Good business except they need to make more than $1 per widget if they plan on being profitable and surviving. The people buying the widget know they are paying $10 to buy it, no secret hidden fees or suprises. Once they buy the widget they own it and the manufacturer wont secretly take pieces of the widget from the customer every time the customer uses it making it not perform like the widget they purchased.

Marriott to make a profit sells weeks at resorts they built or bought. The salesmen sell the weeks for $25,000 or more and Marriott pays them a percentage of the sale while keeping the rest for profit after expenses. Good business.

Marriott sales falter so they decide to now make money selling points to customers who previously purchased weeks from Marriott (and new customers too). These are people Marriott and Marriott sales people already got paid a profit on when they originally sold the Marriott product. In spite of that Marriott is now selling them a modification to be added to their original product. The custome pays $%99 to $1999 to modify their product they own, they pay $165 a year to use the modification, and they pay annual MF's to keep the product functioning well and in good repair. Now Marriott secretly takes part of the modification they sold the customer to use for marriott's own purposes even though they sold the customer the whole modification. By skimming part of the modfication they are limiting the ability of the modification to do what the customer purchased it to do (get them trades worth the same number of points their week is worth). So the profit of the original sale wasn't good enough for Marriott, the sale of the modification isn't enough for marriott, the annual fee to use the modification isn't enough, Marriott must steal part of the modification they sold their customer each time the customer uses their new modification. What will marriott want next, a higher percent skim of the modification they sold the customers, higher annual fees, both?

The widget, your salary, and the skimming of points are apples and oranges.

 

[RandR]

I am really concerned about my reservation ability at 12 months out. Even if they keep the 50% inventory available at 13 months and 50% at 12 months. Now at 12 months I will be competing with other Maui owners which was difficult enough but now I get the pleasure of also competing with every point owner that decides they want to go to Maui the same week that I do.

Is anyone else at all concerned about this? Or am I just not understanding the new program?

You understand correctly. But at least as on owner in Hawaii, which costs more points, you have some buffer. Us lowly Orlando people can have a ridiculous amount of new people to compete with.

 

[floyddl]

I am really concerned about my reservation ability at 12 months out. Even if they keep the 50% inventory available at 13 months and 50% at 12 months. Now at 12 months I will be competing with other Maui owners which was difficult enough but now I get the pleasure of also competing with every point owner that decides they want to go to Maui the same week that I do.

Is anyone else at all concerned about this? Or am I just not understanding the new program?

That is a valid concern. Unless you own a fixed week where you are guaranteed your week the competition could be intense for the popular floating weeks.

 

[pacheco18]

Marriott sales falter so they decide to now make money selling points to customers who previously purchased weeks from Marriott (and new customers too). These are people Marriott and Marriott sales people already got paid a profit on when they originally sold the Marriott product.
The widget, your salary, and the skimming of points are apples and oranges.

You hit the nail on the head. Those of us who bought from developer already helped Marriott make a boatload. We bought into the Rewards Points system and knowingly paid thousands more for a unit that we knew sold for much less resale. We referred others to Marriott and they bought from developer as well.

They are screwing their most loyal customers with this program.

 

[Michigan Czar]

You understand correctly. But at least as on owner in Hawaii, which costs more points, you have some buffer. Us lowly Orlando people can have a ridiculous amount of new people to compete with.

Yeah this sucks as I bought where I want to vacation. I wonder how many units they have to reserve at Maui and if Marriott would allow all of them to be reserved for one specific week (I know an unlikely scenario). I will know the impact or hopefully not next year whenb I look to reserve the following year.

 

[edge4414]

I also don't want to continue this but I'm going to, just to say that if you believe that the governing docs give owners 100% of the rights to control the resorts through voting, you either haven't read the docs or you don't understand them. I'm not a lawyer either but that is made so clear in the docs that it doesn't take a lawyer to understand it.

Others, some who are lawyers, have posted here why your belief that "implied" terms can be enforced is wrong as well. I agree with them based on ten years of being a lowly secretary in a law office, but I appreciate that they've contributed their expertise to the thread.

It really is helpful to have the docs no matter what you think of Marriott. And every owner can get them by calling Owner Services to ask for the "Public Offering Statement" for the resort(s) owned. (If they don't know what you're talking about, ask for a copy of the Timeshare Declaration, Master Deed and Management Agreement or similar documents given to every new owner.) There may be a minimal fee, especially for weeks purchased on the external resale market, but it's well worth the investment.

And now you can get the last word and bash me one more time for looking at Marriott timeshares so unemotionally if that's what you want. I'm done again.

(Geeze, now I can't talk about breakage or contracts. Pretty soon I'm going to stop myself from talking about anything or to anyone on TUG. It's a good thing Don's away and doesn't have to listen to me, but I sure feel bad for the dawg.)

OK one more since you offered the last word. You present yourself as the only person or one of the few that can look at this objectively and constantly refer to the governing Docs that you and only you have thoroughly read. But you miss a major point I believe. Ex: I own Aruba Surf Club which is legally "the association" which has 100% of the shares in the association ownership. These shares represent the 2 & 3 BR units of the development. Owners purchased shares in the association not a deed. When the development is is sold out all shares in the Association, or most anyway , will be owned by the owners of these shares and owners of these shares will vote for the Board of Directors. Now I know Marriott assigns some A directors but gradually they dwindle with time and how the sales program is going. Hope you agree so far! We agree the so-called Governing Documents control the rules etc. BUT the board of Directors voted in by the A share Association members (owners) can amend the Governing Documents. So tell me what I'm missing. I might be wrong but I believe some of the sold out developments BOD's are 100% controlled by the owners
And I can't believe that you keep saying verbal agreements and implied warranties are not legally enforceable. Why don't you ask BP and their shareholders if the total costs they are and will pay are spelled out in law or in their Governing Documents. What law did GS break; granted they have not been convicted yet but it is a perceived responsibility of disclosure or lack thereof to their customers not a written law. SO please stop preaching rules of law that even some of the best minds in this country don't understand never mind you or me.

And To Tombo- Roll Tide

 

[buzzy]

For example, at BeachPlace Towers, the calendar shows Platinum floating weeks as 1-17, 22-34, and 51-52. That includes President's Week, March Break, Christmas and other prime times.




Example 1, I split my two BeachPlace weeks into Studio, 1 Bdrm, 1 Bdrm, Studio from Presidents Day week for 4 weeks in a row. Then I immediately ask II to find me a 1 or 2 bdrm for the weeks I've got studios booked directly. For 2011 they came through with 2 bdrm suites for my first and fourth weeks - netting me out with 3 bdrms for those weeks (which I'll either deposit or rent my studios as I don't need that much space).

Example 2, I've also played the game of splitting my Manor Club Sequel MSE (lockoffs) into two parts and trade them back into original Manor Club MMC (non-lockoffs) for two bdrm suites -- never ever missed that and already got it for 2011. Looks like it won't be possible with the new plan if I join it.


I do the same as your first example...if I do not join though, is that senerio impossible through II or just that much more unlikely?

 

[pacheco18]

QUOTE And I can't believe that you keep saying verbal agreements and implied warranties are not legally enforceable QUOTE

In this case they are not legally enforceable. I am an attorney. There are special rules when it comes to contracts for the sale of real estate. And in any contract, if there is a merger clause (a clause that states that anything outside the writing is not binding), then the verbal agreement does not exist. The sales contract from Marriott was typical (I signed two of them LOL) - had a merger clause, negated oral representations and gave no implied warranties.

 

[caterina25]

And points won't change anything other than how many points you need to get a prime week. There will now be points owners with enough points to reserve the hottest weeks on the phone at 8 am reserving the prime weeks, and at 10 am for the most sought after weeks all inventory will still be gone to the most agressive points owners. Marriott has not increased the total inventory by one week or one resort, they have only changed how the inventory will be allocated.[/QUOTE

They have used our point depreciation as start up money.It would stand to reason because as they roll out their new program they will need a supply of points to have for the new buyers to be able to book where they want to go.They will need this good PR to heighten the interest and strengthen the fabulous new points program.We the owners will receive many incentives to dump our points into their new system.If we don't bite,whose to say how they will distribute their availability for use.Just venting.

 

[edge4414]

QUOTE And I can't believe that you keep saying verbal agreements and implied warranties are not legally enforceable QUOTE

In this case they are not legally enforceable. I am an attorney. There are special rules when it comes to contracts for the sale of real estate. And in any contract, if there is a merger clause (a clause that states that anything outside the writing is not binding), then the verbal agreement does not exist. The sales contract from Marriott was typical (I signed two of them LOL) - had a merger clause, negated oral representations and gave no implied warranties.

If someone explained that to me correctly that applies to the transfer of the property not the rights of membership in the Association. And it is debatable if the membership in the association is a transfer of real estate, since you can't own land in Aruba I don't believe. And lastly does any of us know Aruba law or St Kitts etc. Would appreciate your thoughts on this. Haven't been happy with things in Aruba for a while and have just asked some questions nothing official.

 

[edge4414]

QUOTE And I can't believe that you keep saying verbal agreements and implied warranties are not legally enforceable QUOTE

In this case they are not legally enforceable. I am an attorney. There are special rules when it comes to contracts for the sale of real estate. And in any contract, if there is a merger clause (a clause that states that anything outside the writing is not binding), then the verbal agreement does not exist. The sales contract from Marriott was typical (I signed two of them LOL) - had a merger clause, negated oral representations and gave no implied warranties.

Another question please:
Isn't that a state statute vs Fed law.

 

[Dean]

Some of the Marriott apologists on the board are inclined to blame the legacy owners for relying on the explanations of Marriott’s sales staff over the past 20 + years as to how the system would work. The apologists, ignoring the fact that the sales staff was well trained by Marriott in what to say, suggest that we should have ignored what the sales staff was telling us because there statements were not in writing and were not binding contracts.

I submit the apologists miss the point. The new system is worse than the system that we were induced to purchase in several ways, including the following:

1. We were told we would be able to do exchanges of similar units throughout the Marriott system, subject to availability. By skimming the points and messing around with the availability of the units, Marriott has interfered with our ability to make those types of exchanges.
2. We were told that one reason we should buy a Marriott timeshare was that the ability to obtain Marriott reward points was a valuable asset. At the time I purchased, it was very valuable. I can bank 105,000 rewards points for my unit. When I bought, that amount of points was enough to rent my timeshare for a week. Several years ago, in a precursor to this latest skim, Marriott inflated the points it would charge for my unit by 50%, yet continued to give me the same amount of points. In sum, it devalued my rewards points by 50%. So the value of my rewards was reduced from a week at a timeshare to 5 days at a Courtyard!
3. We were told that there was real value in buying from Marriott as opposed to buying at resale. The new system shows that representation was as hollow as the others.

I’ve had several conversations with Marriott’s representatives about this new system. They acknowledge to me that the dream of timeshare ownership that induced many of us to buy Marriott timeshares is much better than the reality of the new system. One representative candidly told me that he thought that Marriott’s devaluation of the rewards points was even worse than the new system it just designed.

Those representatives, who included supervisors and point specialists, have also acknowledged to me that Marriott could have devised a new system that charged us a premium when we wanted flexibility, such as reserving less than a week, without having to universally skim points from us on week to week exchanges. So even the Marriott representatives on the phone are unable to give a legitimate explanation for the skim, other than that Marriott has the legal right to do it.

Whether or not you agree that Marriott’s conduct in skimming points amounts to theft, I think we should all be able to agree that Marriott has presented itself to the public and to us as an honest and ethical company, and that one of the reasons that many of us spent so much money buying Marriott timeshares is because we believed that we were dealing with an honest and ethical company. The important issue is whether Marriott is treating us in a fair and ethical way. The anger and hurt that many of us are expressing are based on our disappointment when we finally realized that Marriott is acting no better than its competitors, and in a lot of ways, is acting worse. As a result, the argument that Marriott is not technically acting in a criminal way and is not technically committing theft is irrelevant; the company has been harmed immensely when the strongest argument its supporters can come up with is that it has technically not committed theft or that we were naive because we believe its sales staff was telling the truth.

Marriott’s treatment of the legacy owners may turn out to be extremely shortsighted. It has created an unwieldy system that will be hard to sell on economic grounds, and will be even harder to sell when the legacy owners tell the new owners how they’ve been treated. Why would any one invest significant money in the new system once that person learns that the rules can and will change whenever it is in Marriott’s interest to do so? I also think it will be difficult for Marriott to retain some of its prior sales force who are being called upon to ignore the fact that what they told the legacy owners for 20 years turned out to be pie in the sky.

I think it's interesting that not agreeing with those that see the sky as falling is being a Marriott apologist. My number one dictum in timeshares is things change, number two is see number one. Rule number 3 is to discount anything associated with a timeshare sales presentation that sounds like "the salesperson said". There was never any real value buying from Marriott with a few limited exceptions, no way to make the case that buying from Marriott for the points and option of points for a week was ever a good choice. Technically NO ONE has lost anything so there is no foul. While there are things I don't agree with in the new offering, "it is what is is" as they say. I think your post is trying to say that Marriott presented itself as honest and ethical and this issue confirms otherwise. I couldn't agree with that, I don't think we have enough info thus far to answer that question but see nothing about this offering that especially suggests otherwise. It is an add on program for the current owners.

 

[pacheco18]

Another question please:
Isn't that a state statute vs Fed law.

The contract is governed by the state (or country) stated in the contract. There is always a paragraph about disputes and it will say something like "This contract is governed by the laws of the State of _____." It does not necessarily have to be the place where the contract is signed. Keep in mind that many of us stayed at one Marriott resort but bought our timeshares elsewhere. Generally, however, a contract for the sale of real estate is governed by the State where the real estate is located. I do not know about Marriotts outside the US. I assume the law of Aruba governs the Aruba purchases. You would have to look at the contract.

Federal law generally does not usually govern contracts unless they are special contracts with the federal government, military or re Indian land etc. with some special circumstances. There really is no federal contract law.

 

[Brenda]

Only problem for me is that I planned on going to my home resort 2011, so I can't use those nice 800 points before they expire...

Here's how you can use the 800 points in 2011:
1) 2 extra nights at FC Sun-Thu 750 pts
2) Custom House Sun-Thu Off season 4 nights 800 pts
3) Grand Chateau Sun-Thu Spring 750 pts
4) Sunset Point 2BR Summer, Harbor Point 2 BR Summer, Legents Edge (April)
5 nights 625-750pts

Lots of flexibility.
Good Luck

 

[dioxide45]

Here's how you can use the 800 points in 2011:
1) 2 extra nights at FC Sun-Thu 750 pts
2) Custom House Sun-Thu Off season 4 nights 800 pts
3) Grand Chateau Sun-Thu Spring 750 pts
4) Sunset Point 2BR Summer, Harbor Point 2 BR Summer, Legents Edge (April)
5 nights 625-750pts

Lots of flexibility.
Good Luck

Marriott would rather you convert your week and combine your points from converting the week to points with the 800 points. I think the 800 number was set at that for the very reason to entice enrollees to convert their weeks and combine the points.

 

[dioxide45]

Marriott Steals More

I notice in the disclosure documents that if you have points remaining at the end of the year that are not enough to book any single stay type that you lose those points and can't roll them over. So if you have 2150 points and only need 2100 for a stay, you lose those 50 points. They are not any good for booking anything at any resort, so they are gone forever.

You can't save up those 50 points each year by rolling them over to combine them at one point for an extra day.

 

[DanCali]

No offense, but who are you (not just RandR, but a bunch of people) kidding when you say "no lockoff fees?" Please don't be naive.

Isn't the fact that a 1BR + studio points > 2BR points effectively a lockoff fee? Given the $400 for 800 points "consensus", multiply that by about $0.50 per point to find out what it amounts to.

Here are some examples, (based on points required to trade in):

MOC IV Studio + 1BR Feb 18: 2700 + 3850 = 6550
MOC IV 2BR Feb 18: 5675

Difference: 875 points ($437 "lockoff fee")


MGV Studio + 2BR Feb 25: 1575 + 3175 = 4750
MGV 3BR Feb 25: 4225

Difference: 525 points ($262 "lockoff fee")

Timberlodge Studio + 1BR Feb 18: 2675 + 3675 = 6350
Timberlodge 2BR Feb 18: 5675

Difference: 675 points ($337 "lockoff fee")

Timberlodge Studio + 2BR Jan 7: 1950 + 4225 = 6175
Timberlodge 3BR Jan 7: 5225

Difference: 950 points ($475 "lockoff fee")

To be fair, there are a few select weeks where a 3BR Timberlodge is worth more than a studio + a 2BR, but that's the exception at that resort as well as in the entire system.

For the owners who were willing to pay me $400 for 800 points should I convert, I assume you value a point at more than $0.50, so feel free to use your own conversion rate to see what the lockoff fees truly are.

Point well taken. I was though just referring to the actual cash outlay that the person was talking about.

I realize you were pointing to the cash outlay. But many peole seem to think $199 and done and that they are saving a ton versus II fees, lockoff fees, split fees etc. The above show you that the "hidden lockoff fees" are much higher. The "skim" is another hidden cost because 7 days at your home resort now get you 5-6 days at a comparable resort (not to mention f you are not premier you can only book those at 10 months out, so forget high demand weeks - another hidden cost).

In the past it would have cost you $89+$109+109=$307 to trade a 2BR lockoff into a 1BR and a studio (but many times you may have gotten an upgrade). Based on those "hidden" lockoff fees above, on top of the annual fee, it's hard to argue the new system is more economical... that's besides that fact that you simply cannot trade into a comparable resort for two weeks with a single 2BR since you don't have the necessary points! But if you use points from a second resort, or rent the point from a member, you pay that "hidden" fee