Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

[camachinist]

Has this changed?

Unknown at this point, but owners who have tracked historical patterns at their home resorts should be watching. I know, at my home resort, NCV, there still is substantial unsold inventory within developer control and I've watched the summer season carefully there, reservations, renting and exchanging, for the past seven years. We'll see how it goes. I find it somewhat ironic that Marriott picks the precise middle (July 26) of the busy summer season in most locations to fire up this little points 'enhancement'.

I can say I've already seen a marked change from historical patterns in exchange inventory, in all seasons. Platinum season has just begun and the 13 month owners are chewing on it right now. We'll see.

 

[mkahanek]

hmm

Boy are you hung up on this. Yes we know you don't like the system. I respect your opinion and right to say so (maybe not over and over ), but come on, calling Marriott "theives", "con men", etc is way over the top.

If you have a $100 worth 10000 pennies and you open a checking account in a regular bank and do nothing for two years, I bet when you go to withdrawal that 10000 pennies you only have 8000-9000 left if you're lucky. Would you call that bank a bunch of theives?

It's the price of doing business and no one said that you had to deposit that $100 bucks into that bank in the 1st place. You could have deposited it in a Credit Union and not lost anything...

So please tone it down some. Not all of us feel like we are getting ripped off...

Y-ASK

I don't know if I would go so far as to call them theives. But it does seem pretty crappy that my week yields 4025 and the CHEAPEST week in the CHEAPEST season will require 4050. Especially after my salesdude said I "could go anywhere I wanted with this hawaii week"

 

[ArtsieAng]

That is a good one.

Right now we are all eligible to call in at 12 months for at least 50% of the inventory.

Has this changed?

Can Marriott call in at 9:00:00 for its points users who want that week on the wait list and everyone else can call in at 9:00:01. For weeks that Marriott controls can they 'jump' the gun on us or does the fact that they are premier plus owners mean that they will always reserve up to 50% of the inventory 13 months out if their points owners demand it and never really think about it again.

I think they document where weeks come from, but do they document how they will use floating weeks in the inventory system? If the resort has 50 units and 50 people turn in floating weeks can they book all 50 of those in one week or do they have to be proportionate?

I would think that would have to change. It will most likely be based on percentages. After all, if 75% of owners converted to points, Marriott wouldn't be expected to reserve 50% of the inventory for week owners.

At any rate, the problem I foresee is not with percentages, be it 50%, or a percentage of points vs weeks. It's allowing anyone who is a premier/premier plus owner to reserve at my home resort at 13 months, prior to me being able to reserve my week. By the time the 12th month roles around, all the good weeks will be gone.

 

[wuv pooh]

Those are the 2 main possible problems from not converting, however the spin offs from those 2 main things create a possible myriad of new losses in actual useage for those of us who won't convert.

Every time someone joins points Marriott gets their vote. How long before weeks owners can be outvoted by Marriott on anything Marriott feels like doing? This was sold as an owners program, the points trust setup with now vote turns it into a Marriott program with members paying dues. This is a whole different situation than people bought into.

If enough people join points to where there is little inventory to exchange for, I have lost access to what I have traded for in the past, and what I could have continued trading for in the future if Marriott hadn't implemented a totally separate points program. All inventory was weeks. Everything Marriot sold was weeks. I had as much access to Marriot inventory as every other owner. Now there are 2 separate classes and groups of owners, weeks and points. Marriott avors points from a profit standpoint and is looking to create advantages for points owners to convince them to convert. Marriott is trying to get everyone into points, they are only selling points, and they are probably raiding weeks II prime inventory to put into points inventory. They are activelly trying to make access to weeks inventory as small as possible to promote points, and any advantages given to points owners will be translated into disadvantages to weeks owners who don't convert.

Win or lose I am not converting. The fact that they might not actually be able to reduce my resale value or drastically diminish my access to exchange inventory (depending on the success of points), none of that changes the fact that they are trying to make what I purchased, what they originally sold, become as close to worthless as they can make it. And that is theft of dollar value and intrinsic values whether you can actually attach a dollar value to it or not.

I agree with that, and the unknown contingencies are what will drive me to enroll. Marriott is compelling me to enroll to mitigate the risk of an unknown future. My emotional side says "that's not fair", my logical side says "I can work it to my advantage just like the old system", my selfish side says "If Marriott is going to screw weeks owners then I want to be on their side of the game".

It is really a fascinating insight into human behavior and corporate and individual change. If anyone is looking for a good business school thesis this would be a great subject to study Lots of good source material stored on the Tug server between the speculation thread and all these threads. Not so fascinating to be going through it though :hysterical:

 

[floyddl]

I don't know if I would go so far as to call them theives. But it does seem pretty crappy that my week yields 4025 and the CHEAPEST week in the CHEAPEST season will require 4050. Especially after my salesdude said I "could go anywhere I wanted with this hawaii week"

That sales dude was telling the truth for the most part. Now we have a new ball game and you still may be able to do it but if you want to play equitably in the new points stadium you will have to buy more expensive tickets to get in the game.

 

[tombo]

With Points my 3BR Gold is worth 4625; a 2BR in a week which falls on the weeks calendar as a Plat will cost me 3725 points for a gardenview or 4500 for an oceanside unit. Both give me MORE than what I'd get with II. And I've looked at other resorts for exchanging, even posted in this thread about one example, and am happy with the results.

.

What can you do with 125 leftover points if you reserve oceanside (which is still a down trade from your 3 bed unit)? Given the choice would you rather swap your 3 bed for a 2 bed in II (including swapping for 2 bed units you cant afford using points) and get an occasional AC, or get a 2 bed week you can afford with your allocated points and 125 points back in change? The 125 points is only good for 2 years before they expire, so 250 points for 2 trades over 2 years. Would you rather have 250 points every 2 years or on AC? Peruse the points chart and see what you can reserve for 250 points. Basically the change Marriott gives you is almost worthless. If you read the points charts I bet that many 2 bed rooms you exchanged for in the past using II cost more points more than you can afford with 4625 annual Marriott points. Before assuming you are better off, see how many previous 2 bed trades through II are now out of reach using points.

 

[SueDonJ]

Um, Er, is anybody else askeered that the Starwood folks are invading the Marriott board? Last time they did this a thread got shut down for bad behavior ...

No, really, welcome Starwood people! It was very helpful to compare and contrast Marriott with Starwood through all the months of speculation, and I'm happy that you're willing to help us now that it's rolled out.

 

[ArtsieAng]

Originally Posted by DavidnRobin
I am afraid that the upper-managment at SVO is trying to figure out how to outdue MVC managment in screwing over their owners so they can be #1 again in sucking as much $ they can from the Owners while keeping their house of cards from falling... It might be challenging - but I am sure SVO will come up with something.

:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:

 

[SueDonJ]

What can you do with 125 leftover points if you reserve oceanside (which is still a down trade from your 3 bed unit)? Given the choice would you rather swap your 3 bed for a 2 bed in II (including swapping for 2 bed units you cant afford using points) and get an occasional AC, or get a 2 bed week you can afford with your allocated points and 125 points back in change? The 125 points is only good for 2 years before they expire, so 250 points for 2 trades over 2 years. Would you rather have 250 points every 2 years or on AC? Peruse the points chart and see what you can reserve for 250 points. Basically the change Marriott gives you is almost worthless. If you read the points charts I bet that many 2 bed rooms you exchanged for in the past using II cost more points more than you can afford with 4625 annual Marriott points. Before assuming you are better off, see how many previous 2 bed trades through II are now out of reach using points.

Given that an AC is not guaranteed with II and any surplus points above and beyond what I'm exchanging with Points is, I'll take the guarantee every time. Given that there was so much guesswork about trade value (and trade-downs more possible than trade-ups for me) in II and with Points it's all right there in front of me for instant access, I'll take Points every time.

Tombo, I'm sorry this isn't something that works for you. Honestly. Can't you just accept that it works for me and I'm satisfied with it? I really would like to just end this argument, but obviously neither one of us is the type to walk away without the last word. It'll practically kill me to do it, but this has to end. I'm done. We disagree about "skim" or "breakage" or whatever you want to call it. We always will. Please can't we just end it as friends? :hysterical:

 

[jerseygirl]

Um, Er, is anybody else askeered that the Starwood folks are invading the Marriott board? Last time they did this a thread got shut down for bad behavior ...

No, really, welcome Starwood people! It was very helpful to compare and contrast Marriott with Starwood through all the months of speculation, and I'm happy that you're willing to help us now that it's rolled out.

Thanks for the welcome. Sorry if there was bad behavior on a previous thread -- I must have missed it. On the Starwood board, we're like a big old disfunctional family at Thanksgiving. We fight a lot, but mostly enjoy each others' company (with a few black sheep exceptions -- just like that Thanksgiving dinner!).

I was really hoping you'd respond to my earlier question regarding other systems with breakage. I'm truly trying to understand it as I think if "mother Marriott" does it, other systems may soon follow. Thanks!

 

[rsackett]

Boy are you hung up on this. Yes we know you don't like the system. I respect your opinion and right to say so (maybe not over and over ), but come on, calling Marriott "theives", "con men", etc is way over the top.

If you have a $100 worth 10000 pennies and you open a checking account in a regular bank and do nothing for two years, I bet when you go to withdrawal that 10000 pennies you only have 8000-9000 left if you're lucky. Would you call that bank a bunch of theives?

It's the price of doing business and no one said that you had to deposit that $100 bucks into that bank in the 1st place. You could have deposited it in a Credit Union and not lost anything...

So please tone it down some. Not all of us feel like we are getting ripped off...

Y-ASK

I think because it is not spelled out as an exchange fee and seems like Marriott was trying to hide this or think people would not notice is what has people upset.
On one hand Marriott states "your annual fee of covers all internal Marriott trades", but then takes a bit of your points to pay for it bothers people.
I think it would have been fairer for Marriott to say, "All II Marriott exchanges are covered by your annual fee, all points trades cost $xx per trade", and adjust the fee accordingly. If you have a week that costs 4000 points to get and Marriott gives you 93% of that amount that results in 280 points Marriott kept. If those points are worth $0.40 (Marriott's number) in maintenance fees that is a dollar value of $112. This seems like a high exchange charge, in addition to your yearly fee, if you went for one exchange (a 7 day week). If you did 7 one day exchanges this would not seem so bad. This is why I think Marriott would have been better off giving full value in point to weeks owners and charged a small fee per exchange.

Ray

 

[hotcoffee]

Yes - but if I sell I am losing far more (tens of thousands more) on the developer unit I bought - the resale unit and the developer unit are now worth the same.

This is the good part of the program for current resale owners. The level playing field tempts me to join. The amount of inventory that will be available under the new vs. the old systems is what is scaring me.

Additionally, many of us never plan to sell - timeshares are not and were never intended to be a real estate investment we should expect to appreciate. Those who bought with profit in mind were at best misinformed. I love my deeded weeks (I bought where I want to go and to have the flexibility to trade for Rewards Points) and plan to include them in my will - so reselling is not something I care about. The resale week I bought to use - we go to Palm Desert every year - so trading for Rewards points was not an issue.

This sounds like it would be the opinion of someone whose future is pretty secure. I suspect that many, if not most, owners would like the option to sell if it no longer makes sense to own a timeshare. Paying the yearly maintenance fees might even burden their heirs. The argument that timeshares are not an investment is a red herring argument. Everyone here knows that they depreciate severely after a developer purchase. I am more concerned that it might be someday nearly impossible to even give a Marriott timeshare away because of the maintenance fees and lack of inventory. There should be some value in owning a timeshare even if it is significantly less than its original purchase price. Marriott's argument is that a resale purchaser under the new program will still be able to use his timeshare just like we have been doing in the past. They just will not be able to join the new system. However, what they are really hoping for is that so little inventory will remain under the old system, no one will ever purchase resale. So, instead of like, for example, Honda, which boasts about the resale value of its cars, Marriott would like to destroy the resale option completely if they can pull that off.

 

[WelcomeHome]

Can someone please take a moment to answer me???

It matters because along with the new system comes the ability for any premier/premier plus owner to book at any resort prior to many week owners reserving their week, at their home resort.

I'd still like to know if it's been verified that Marriott can and will legally do this?
I just want a simple answer, or if this an issue that is still uncertain?


Thanks,
David

 

[Brenda]

I am a happy camper

I enrolled all my weeks and the more I see the flexibility. The more I love it.
I may be one of the few on the board that think the points program is plus for owners. I understand that each of us have our own style of vacationing and what's good for one may not be good for another. However, I do believe that maybe we need to just stop and open our horizons and look at vacationing a little differently that before. Instead of only going to your owned resort each year, you have the flexibility of reserving at all of them. Have you seen the packages:

1) Hawaii Sampler Aug 26-Nov 11 9 nights 3825 pts for OV,
2775 pts for Garden
Maui Ocean Club 1 Bed 3 nights 1,500 pts
Ko"olina 1 Bed 3 nights 1,275 pts
Kauai 1 Bed 3 nights 1,050 pts

2) Florida Parks and Beach June 3 - Sept 1 3,800 pts
Harbour Lake (Orlando) 2 Bed 7 nights 2,675 pts
Ocean Point 2 Bed OF3 nights 1,125 pts

3) Ski in the Rockies Jan 14 - March 24 1,675 pts
Streamside Vail 1 Bed 4 nights 850 pts
Maountain Valley 1 Bed 3 nights 825 pts

4) California Dreaming Spring Apr 29-June 2 2,000 pts.
Newport Coast Villas 2 Bed 3 nights 900 pts
Shadow Ridge 2 Bed 3 nights 1,100

Others have posted using the resorts from Sun to Thur to maximize points and then stay at a hotel for the weekend either pay and get more reward points or redeem reward points. I can use my 4950 points I get for a 2 Bed at MKO and stay 15 nights in a 1 Bed at the same resort. That beats a 1 bed and a studio for 7 nights each any day. I hate studios.

Look at your total points available and play around with the new offerings.

I don't agree with all the talk about skimming. You don't trade to use your own week. You only trade to go to a resort you don't own. For a trade to a resort you don't own, to be able to select your days and view, there is a price to pay. You pay with more points. You don't own there, you pay more.

I am happy with Marriott. To me the Destination program is a BIG plus. I really enjoy flexibility. With the new point system that's what I have. I also own at WorldMark and Hilton, where both systems allow me to add a few days to my vacation trips. Now I can do the same with Marriott. Many times I use less than a week with Marriott. I just returned from a week at Summit Watch where I traded a full week but only stayed 4 nights. I was in Salt Lake City for the weekend for business and decided to visit Park City for a few days. What a waste. Now I can book just 3 or 4 days during the cheap points weekday allotment. I also like that now I can select my view, where before trading through II, I ended up with less view than what I traded. I own OF and OV at most of my resorts and had to settle for garden or parking lot view with an II trade. I don't mind paying extra with points to get what I enjoy.

The real plus for me is that I did buy all my Marriotts through Marriott, mostly pre-construction, which is also a big savings. It is now paying off that I only pay $695 to enroll 6 units and I am immediately premium plus, where I can reserve even 1 day at 13 months at any of the resorts. That is powerful.

 

[SueDonJ]

... It is really a fascinating insight into human behavior and corporate and individual change. If anyone is looking for a good business school thesis this would be a great subject to study ...

They'll have to get in line behind that other Educated Consumer guy who seems to be using us as guinea pigs for the psych course he's teaching. Or something like that, he hasn't said exactly.

 

[RandR]

Additionally Marriott has subsidized the entire system by charging less in fees than they + II presumably collected in total under the previous system. Again, this is hard to verify but if you took the entire II membership costs + internal trades at $109 + lock off fees at $75 + points trade fees of $109 + reservation change fees of $29 then this is >= $165 or $199 per member. My guess is that this is a true benefit to the new system.

The one fee rather than multiple little fees is definitely a benefit but let's not lose sight of the fact that at least one of those fees, the lock off, was excessive. Did it really cost more and 2 minutes of a reps time to do this function yet it cost $75.

 

[hotcoffee]

I'd still like to know if it's been verified that Marriott can and will legally do this?
I just want a simple answer, or if this an issue that is still uncertain?

Thanks,
David

What a Marriott rep told yesterday is that premier owners can reserve (exchange?) 12 months out, but the peons can only do 10 months.

Comments on this?

 

[RedDogSD]

The real plus for me is that I did buy all my Marriotts through Marriott, mostly pre-construction, which is also a big savings. It is now paying off that I only pay $695 to enroll 6 units and I am immediately premium plus, where I can reserve even 1 day at 13 months at any of the resorts. That is powerful.

Sounds like a great program for you. However, 6 units directly from Marriott cost you what? I am guessing you are in $200,000-$300,000 into Marriott and pay them $6000-$10,000/year in Maint Fees. Now that you are just using your points like most people use cash, the return on investment is gone.

However, what you paid is long gone. If I owned 6 developer weeks, you better believe I would join the program.

 

[DanCali]

What a Marriott rep told yesterday is that premier owners can reserve (exchange?) 12 months out, but the peons can only do 10 months.

Comments on this?

We know the documents read differently. It's the documents that count.

 

[DanCali]

I'd still like to know if it's been verified that Marriott can and will legally do this?
I just want a simple answer, or if this an issue that is still uncertain?


Thanks,
David

Under the old rules marriott committed to:

1) Give owners a week in their season
2) Not to make more than 50% of inventory available at 13 months

As long as they do this, they probably think that's cool.

I say if your summer-fall season effectively turns into a fall season, you have a legitimate gripe. Does it turn into a class action? I am not a lawyer...

 

[ArtsieAng]

I'd still like to know if it's been verified that Marriott can and will legally do this?
I just want a simple answer, or if this an issue that is still uncertain?


Thanks,
David

The new program does not offer home resort priority.

Premier/PremierPlus owners are entitled to reserve at any resort, 13 months out.

 

[puckmanfl]

good afternoon,....

Brenda:

where did you find these "combo packages" ????

please advise

 

[jerseyfinn]

Too much . . . too fast

WOW !

I only come in the TUG door occassionally to check on things, so imagine my surprise when I find this thread. I go to MVCI and try to read through the stuff they show me about what my weeks points are worth etc. and I'm still confused by the relative lack of clarity by Marriott about this whole thing. Yeah, there's a lot of chatter and info here, but I've tried to sit down on the MVCI site and figure this stuff out, but as Ringo sang, "It Don't Come Easy." We're heading to Spain soon and I'm really not in the mood to have to start thinking deeply about things timeshare -- I simply want to sit my butt down with a sangria in hand.

I am a bit surprised that Marriott does not give owners an e-mail or still better, a timely mailing which lays out in clear detail just what this new program means ( Marriott knows that many of their owners are thoughtful and sophisticated folks who consider carefully their ownership paradigm ). Kinda feel to me like Marriott borrows a trick from that Congress which pops that health care bill out of a dark corner and into instant reality.

What I definitely don't like is the not-so-subtle nudge that Marriott gives us as they try to imply that these enrollment prices are not gonna be around for a long time. Give me a break. Name your price and go away, but spare me the sales talk stuff -- I bought your weeks, now give me clear concise info and allow me to figure out on my own time line what I am or am not gonna do.

This dank economy has most definitely stopped the MVCI Love Boat -- not quite dead in the water, but it ain't the good ship Lollipop anymore. I'd suggest resisting any urge one way or the other about this program and instead sit down to play some "what if" a few scores of times until the new nomenclature sinks in and folks begin to grasp the larger picture of how this works for or against owners.

I'd like to think that Marriott is credible and has some good thoughts here, but given this wobbly economy, the slim-shady clouds swirling around the real estate market of which TS is a part of, I'm simply not in the mood at the moment to ponder much of anything right now. The only timeshare thoughts I'm entertaining is next year's usage and trips as this year was set months ago. Now it looks like I gotta put that sangria down and think about this new stuff with Marriott -- I don't like being rushed. I hope that Marriott realizes that they need to go slow here as we owners have it just as tough as MVCI does at the moment and timeshare calculus ain't at the top of my list.

Barry

 

[Brenda]

Sounds like a great program for you. However, 6 units directly from Marriott cost you what? I am guessing you are in $200,000-$300,000 into Marriott and pay them $6000-$10,000/year in Maint Fees. Now that you are just using your points like most people use cash, the return on investment is gone.

However, what you paid is long gone. If I owned 6 developer weeks, you better believe I would join the program.

No, I did not pay $200K-$300K for my 6 units. Some are EOY units and pre construction from 1997 when I paid less than $18,000 for my first (Kauai Beach Club OF). I paid between $3,000 and $21,000 for my units. The $3,000 is a Marriott resale at Vail. The avg is $14,000. My total is less than $100k. My M/F are around $5,600 a year. I can travel wherever and whenever I want. I look at it as though I bought a second home everywhere without the hassles of responsibilities. Where can I have a second home for under $100K and less than $6K annual upkeep.

The point system opens lots of options that you can enjoy if you only open your mind to it. See the packages I referenced. Even with only 3,000 pts, you can enjoy multiple resorts in HI, CA, CO ski instead of just going to your same home resort.

 

[hipslo]

Question about MRP for Resale Owners who Convert

As I understand it, if I convert a resale week, and the resort would have permitted the week to be traded for MRP had it been a direct developer purchase, I will become eligible to trade in my week for MRP.

My question is, how many MRP? Will I be subject to the 32 for 1 conversion ratio on points, and the number of points I can trade in each year is depending on whether I am regular owner,premiere or premiere plus? Or, will I be able to trade in based on how many MRP the week would have given me as a direct developer purchaser, prior to enrolling? Does the answer depend, in any given year, whether I have first converted my week to destination club points, or is the answer the same whether I have converted to destination club points in any given year or not?

Does anyone know? I have read a bunch of conflicting things about this.

Also, does anyone know how many MRP a platinum mountainside week currently gets? How about a gold fairway villas week? Is it the same for all developer purchasers, or does it depend on when the purchase was made?