Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

[SueDonJ]

Susan you are very inteligent and post responses to defend marriott at every turn, yet to find some way to justify the theft of 7% to 10% of the entire Mariott points inventory by skimming (or instead using marriotts nice words instead of theft as you like to do "breakage") is unacceptable and something NO OTHER points timeshare organization does. If my week is worth 5000 points if someone else want to rent it, and the week they deposit will cost me 5000 pints to rent, then these are like fr like trades and I should get enough points using my deposit to exchange for their week. However thanks to skimming they can't deposit their 5000 point week and exchange for my 5000 point week, and I can't exchange for their's either because marriott won't give either of us enough points to make like for like exchanges. That is a ripoff and whether you prefer to call it skimming, theft, or breakage.

EVERY timeshare points system has breakage. Folks who own in some of those systems have posted to this thread the facts of their system's breakage. Go back and look, it's right here.

You know, I just figured out in another thread that an exchange back into my home resort that I'm trying to do for next year will work (if there's availability, of course) practically the exact same way with Points as it will with II. I have a 3BR Gold and I want a Plat week - in II it's 99% certain that an exchange won't be made unless I'm willing to accept a 2BR, and the 3BR gives me enough points for a 2BR.

So, using points I can't reserve a 3BR Gold using my 3BR Gold allotment, but using points will work the same as II. Considering that I was never promised or sold on the idea that my 3BR would always get me like-for-like, I'm satisfied with the exchange capabilities in the new system.

Not everyone will be. I'm not saying everyone should be. And I really wish people would stop saying that I defend Marriott "at every turn." I defend Marriott with respect to how their product works for me, not for how it works for everyone else. Isn't that what we all do, post about our own experiences?

 

[wa.mama]

I don't get this. You lose nothing by joining except for the fee to join which is offset by points.

You save a bundle at $199 each year vs. current fees

You NEVER have to actually use points if you don't want to.

You keep the flexibility to use points in the future if it is to your advantage.

You can quit your annual commitment whenever you want if you hate it.

Why would you turn down the savings and flexibility?

You lose nothing by joining and potentially have great benefits in the future. It is a free option on the future.

Why would I pay for an option I won't use and can't pass on to future owners? I have to pay for II anyway to trade my non-Marriott weeks. I'm with Tombo when he said,

Welcome to Marriott's secret hidden points fees. Marriott brags that they don't have an exchange fee while they steal points making money (fees) by theft on every exchange. Under points they also claim no lock-off fees which is also a lie factoring in additional stolen points (skim). If you add the points totals required to reserve a studio and thepoints required to stay in a one bed room and compare the number of points required to stay in a 2 bed room same resort/season, the combined points required for the lock-offs are higher, so they are again charging a hidden fee. The owner deposits his 2 bed room week. marriott gives him less points than they will rent it for, they skimmed points. If a member rents a one bed room side and another member rents a studio, marriott will charge the 2 a combined point total higher than reserving the whole 2 bed room. More points skimmed, more Marriott hidden fees.Welcome to the new crokked, skimming, theiving marriott.

Many Tuggers see a positive side in paying for an additional option to their existing useage pattern. For us, not only is it unneccessary but it's also relatively expensive (in regards to joining cost and points skimming). I never buy the extended warranty on appliances - to me, this program is similar as it guarantees something I'll likely not need. Marriott needs my prime weeks more than I need to pay them $$ for something not valuable to me.

 

[WelcomeHome]

Is this statement correct?

It matters because along with the new system comes the ability for any premier/premier plus owner to book at any resort prior to many week owners reserving their week, at their home resort

Has this statement been verified? I thought point owners would be able to reserve from deeded owner's inventory ONLY IF a deeded owner deposited their week in II first or if the deeded owner exchanged his week for a different resort via points in an particular year? If premier plus points owners can select from the same inventory required for deeded owners weeks, then wouldn't the competition for prime weeks be dramatically increased to deeded owners at their own home resort???

 

[wuv pooh]

Susan you are very inteligent and post responses to defend marriott at every turn, yet to find some way to justify the theft of 7% to 10% of the entire Mariott points inventory by skimming (or instead using marriotts nice words instead of theft as you like to do "breakage") is unacceptable and something NO OTHER points timeshare organization does it. To say that Marriott "must" do it to protect themselves from unknwn inventory is a joke. they worked on this thing for several years and went through every possible scenario before rolling the new program out. It is bult in profit for Marriott pure and simple, and it was designed that way on purpose hoping that they can slip it by the majority of owners while claiming to save them money by giving free exchanges and free lock-offs. the problem is that veryone on TUG has caught on to their trickery and deceit, everyone that is except possibly you.

If my week is worth 5000 points if someone else want to rent it, and the week they deposit will cost me 5000 pints to rent, then these are like fr like trades and I should get enough points using my deposit to exchange for their week. However thanks to skimming they can't deposit their 5000 point week and exchange for my 5000 point week, and I can't exchange for their's either because marriott won't give either of us enough points to make like for like exchanges. That is a ripoff and whether you prefer to call it skimming, theft, or breakage.

I agree with your skimming, but not with your theft.

In order to 'steal' something from me you have to take something that belongs to me and not replace it with something that I consider of equal or eqivalent value.

Marriott has not taken anything of value from you that you currently own. You have the same reservation right and usage right that you have today. You also have the same exchange options that you had 1 week ago.

Note: If Marriott does raid the weeks system to provide points inventory then I would consider that a theft if they did not provide equal compensation, and points are not equal in that sense. A 4th of July week is not equal to 15th of Aug even though they have the same value in points. I don't know if we could prove that one way or another, but it is a concern to me.

Marriott actions may also influence your resale options. I personally have no interest in resale or the conflicting statements about it in the document, but that could help you or hurt you depending on how things work out and everyone's theories about value. If it is true that the new program instantly devalues everyones resale value then I would consider that a theft. However, if Marriott is successful in selling points, and cannot add inventory fast enough by building they may offer you money for your week so they can convert it to points and may pay you MORE than the pre 6/20 resale value. That would not be a theft, but a benefit. I think it will be a while before we know the outcome for resale values.

In order to provide a NEW benefit, Marriott has 'skimmed' points to make this possible. Is that an equivalent value to the system as a whole? That is unclear. Since we do not have access to the 'other side of the curtain' we do not know what Marriotts true demand is, what the majority of their customers want, what the real breakage is, etc. I see interesting opportunities because I work in pricing and every price realignment presents certain anomolies that can be exploited for your benefit.

Regardless, Marriott does not force you to join if you do not want to. So unless there is a negative impact to you from the above 2 options you are no worse off, while I consider myself better off. Certainly not a theft, but a win for Marriott.

Additionally Marriott has subsidized the entire system by charging less in fees than they + II presumably collected in total under the previous system. Again, this is hard to verify but if you took the entire II membership costs + internal trades at $109 + lock off fees at $75 + points trade fees of $109 + reservation change fees of $29 then this is >= $165 or $199 per member. My guess is that this is a true benefit to the new system.

The rest depends on your view of Marriott I guess. I am a Platinum business traveller and very satisfied timeshare customer so I do not see any evil intent where others do. They have always dealt straight with me, fixed my valid complaints, and treated me well. I do not expect that to change in the future although I may be disappointed if other peoples fears come to fruition.

So I do not believe there has been a theft unless they begin to 'raid' the weeks system to current owners disadvantage or there is some permanent reduction in resale value. Do you see any other areas where you are being robbed?

 

[tombo]

EVERY timeshare points system has breakage. Folks who own in some of those systems have posted to this thread the facts of their system's breakage. Go back and look, it's right here.

You know, I just figured out in another thread that an exchange back into my home resort that I'm trying to do for next year will work (if there's availability, of course) practically the exact same way with Points as it will with II. I have a 3BR Gold and I want a Plat week - in II it's 99% certain that an exchange won't be made unless I'm willing to accept a 2BR, and the 3BR gives me enough points for a 2BR.

So, using points I can't reserve a 3BR Gold using my 3BR Gold allotment, but using points will work the same as II. Considering that I was never promised or sold on the idea that my 3BR would always get me like-for-like, I'm satisfied with the exchange capabilities in the new system.

?

No other timeshare has "breakage or theft of 7% to 10%. You like to tout Marriott as being heads and shoulders above the rest of the timeshare developers. Now their claim to fame is yeah they are ripping owners off, but heck other timeshare companies do it too. Isn't that special? By the way, not only has Marriott decided to adopt a form of owner theft used by other developers, they have decided to steal more than any other developer does, and for that we should appreciate marriott?

For months before this was launched you were so happy because once they launched points you would finally be able to trade a 3 bed room and get a 3 bed room. Hurray for points, no more down trades. Now you are stating that you are actually happy that your points won't even be able to get you your own 3 bed room if you save your points to try and exchange into your home resort for the following year? So after seeing how the points actually work and after admitting that they don't give you enough points to trade for another resort with the same points price as yours, it is suddenly OK that your 3 bed room will only exchange for a 2 bed room because it is what you could do before?

Below is your quote from a previous post. Please explain why you are "satisfied" with what marriot has come out with even though they won't even give you the number of points needed to rent your own 3 bed room week when you deposit your own week with them, much less exchange for 3 bed rooms at other resorts? It wasn't fair when II made you exchange your 3 bed week for a 2 bed week, but now when Marriott does the same thing it is "satisfactory"? Even when you felt cheated by II you were willing to forgive them the inequitable exchanges because that was how it was explained to you by you Marriott salesperson? Doesn't that sound a little like you are willing to forgive, believe, and trust Marriott no matter what they do?

What you're figuring for values is what I would expect, that among similar valued resorts a 3BR would be equal to another 3BR or a 2BR with a studio or a 1BR plus two studios, etc... Among all of the resorts, a 3BR could be worth more or less depending on the overall rating of the specific resorts. (In other words, what I'd get on Hilton Head during Platinum season might be more than what I'd get in Hawaii, or less than what I'd get in Silver season or at an Orlando resort.) That sounds okay, fair even. And I love the idea of lower point costs throughout the system during a flexchange-type period.

What happens now with my 3BR non-lockoff in II isn't as fair. 3BR inventory is extremely limited so up to this point I've had to accept 2BR units in exchanges regardless of whether the exchange resort is of more or less quality than what I own, with an AC only some of those times that could be upgraded during flexchange. Other than the possibility of an AC, if an exchange to a 3BR is next to impossible, I can't imagine that I could get in II an upgrade from a 3BR no matter when the request is made.

Like I've said, though, the way exchanges work in II is what I've expected because that's how it was explained by the Marriott salesperson. If Marriott doesn't roll out something new here I'll still be satisfied with II, but I am optimistic that what Marriott may offer might work better for me. We'll see.

 

[SueDonJ]

No other timeshare has "breakage or theft of 7% to 10%. You like to tout Marriott as being heads and shoulders above the rest of the timeshare developers. Now their claim to fame is yeah they are ripping owners off, but heck other timeshare companies do it too. Isn't that special? By the way, not only has Marriott decided to adopt a form of owner theft used by other developers, they have decided to steal more than any other developer does, and for that we should appreciate marriott?

For months before this was launched you were so happy because once they launched points you would finally be able to trade a 3 bed room and get a 3 bed room. Hurray for points, no more down trades. Now you are stating that you are actually happy that your points won't even be able to get you your own 3 bed room if you save your points to try and exchange into your home resort for the following year? So after seeing how the points actually work and after admitting that they don't give you enough points to trade for another resort with the same points price as yours, it is suddenly OK that your 3 bed room will only exchange for a 2 bed room because it is what you could do before?

Below is your quote from a previous post. Please explain why you are "satisfied" with what marriot has come out with even though they won't even give you the number of points needed to rent your own 3 bed room week when you deposit your own week with them, much less exchange for 3 bed rooms at other resorts? It wasn't fair when II made you exchange your 3 bed week for a 2 bed week, but now when Marriott does the same thing it is "satisfactory"? Doesn't that sound a little like you are willing to forgive Marriott no matter what they do?

If my 3BR points value gets me a 2BR in exchange back to my home resort in a higher-demand season, with points left over to be used in a studio or 1BR somewhere else, how is that any different than what I said in the post you quoted? This is what I said - what is different about how it's working?

... What you're figuring for values is what I would expect, that among similar valued resorts a 3BR would be equal to another 3BR or a 2BR with a studio or a 1BR plus two studios, etc... Among all of the resorts, a 3BR could be worth more or less depending on the overall rating of the specific resorts. ...

 

[jlee2070]

can "we" put up a poll on this???

Can we get a Poll on this?

Who's definitely converting?
Who Might Convert?
Definitely NOT converting?

anything else??

 

[SueDonJ]

Can we get a Poll on this?

Who's definitely converting?
Who Might Convert?
Definitely NOT converting?

anything else??

jlee, here's a thread that asked the question, maybe a moderator can attach a poll to it?

 

[tombo]

I agree with your skimming, but not with your theft.

In order to 'steal' something from me you have to take something that belongs to me and not replace it with something that I consider of equal or eqivalent value.

?

I have a week worth 5000 points. I deposit it with Marriott. They give me fewer points than the value of what I gave them. They pocket the difference. Whether you want to call them con men, theives, or simply unethical businessmen, the end result is I don't get the full value of the ponts allocated to my week.

I purchased the week which Marriott determined to be worth 5000 points, I pay MF's on it, I pay $165 a year to be able to swap my week into points to do exchanges, I paid $1495 for the ability to use points, and after all of my financial outlay Marriott feels that they should have the right to skim 7% to 10% of the value of what I own and paid to use. Is it technically theft? No because if I give them my week I knew what I was getting for it, but it is still theft in my opinion because they leave you no choice other than to be locked out of the points program and possibly make what you own almost worthless.

Of course the reality of the points program will preclude myself and many others from joining. They will operate it whithout any contribution of weeks or infusion of cash from me, and I hope the points venture is a resounding bust. The more owners that know the true details, the fewer owners I believe will convert, and many of those who mistakenly convert will never deposit their week for points after they discover that marriott will give them less points for their deposit than it is worth. Time will tell.

 

[jerseygirl]

EVERY timeshare points system has breakage. Folks who own in some of those systems have posted to this thread the facts of their system's breakage. Go back and look, it's right here.

Can you please point to another (comparable) system that has breakage? I own at Starwood, Hyatt and Hilton and none have breakage. Thanks.

 

[DanCali]

EVERY timeshare points system has breakage. Folks who own in some of those systems have posted to this thread the facts of their system's breakage. Go back and look, it's right here.

I own with Starwood, and they don't have breakage. My week is worth 148K points and it costs 148K points to reserve in my season. The number of points by day varies, but adds up to 148K. The number of points for a small 1BR and a large 1BR vary but add up to 148K... "saying EVERY timeshare points system has breakage" is just false.

By the way, the latter is the second form of skimming we haven't discussed much. Why should a studio + a 1BR be more points than a 2BR? Even if you got the same points as it takes to trade in,you still couldn't trade to a comparable resort and stay 2 weeks back to back in smaller units... So every time someone downgrades in size, Marriott profits.

Frankly, I don't even understand the concept... what does breakage even mean? As a weeks owner did you pay extra when weeks at your resort went unused? You paid extra if people defaulted on MFs, but who cared if weeks go unused? Why should I care now if occupancy is at 90% or 99% as long as MFs are paid? How does the breakage benefit owners? The way I see it, Marriott will just rent what they can the moment they can grab it for themselves.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Can you please point to another (comparable) system that has breakage? I own at Starwood, Hyatt and Hilton and none have breakage. Thanks.

Hi jg and DanCali - (what the heck am I doing over here!? just curious... like watching a car-wreck...) - if I understand the definition of 'breakage' (misaligned # of points needed to trade into a resort than given to owners) - there are a couple of SVO resorts that do this (e.g. SVR-Fountains I believe - I do not own these...) where the amount of SOs (points) to exchange into a resort is higher than given to owners.

the mantra - buy where you want to go has never been more true - back to the Starwood board I go.

 

[wuv pooh]

I have a week worth 5000 points. I deposit it with Marriott. They give me fewer points than the value of what I gave them. They pocket the difference. Whether you want to call them con men, theives, or simply unethical businessmen, the end result is I don't get the full value of the ponts allocated to my week.

I purchased the week which Marriott determined to be worth 5000 points, I pay MF's on it, I pay $165 a year to be able to swap my week into points to do exchanges, I paid $1495 for the ability to use points, and after all of my financial outlay Marriott feels that they should have the right to skim 7% to 10% of the value of what I own and paid to use. Is it technically theft? No because if I give them my week I knew what I was getting for it, but it is still theft in my opinion because they leave you no choice other than to be locked out of the points program and possibly make what you own almost worthless.

Of course the reality of the points program will preclude myself and many others from joining. They will operate it whithout any contribution of weeks or infusion of cash from me, and I hope the points venture is a resounding bust. The more owners that know the true details, the fewer owners I believe will convert, and many of those who mistakenly convert will never deposit their week for points after they discover that marriott will give them less points for their deposit than it is worth. Time will tell.

I believe that is incorrect logically and ethically.

You are no worse off if you do not join, subject to my two disclaimers.

If you do join you receive an additional benefit. Presumably you would not join unless unless the benefit was equal to the cost of joining.

The only other option is that your feel compelled to join out of fear or intimidation so you do not truly have a choice. From your posts I do not believe that you feel that way.

So again I ask, Why is it theft for Marriott to give me more value while not harming you in any way?

So far I can think of two ways you can be harmed:

1. If they 'raid' weeks inventory.
2. If there is a permanent reduction in resale value.

Any others?

 

[tombo]

If my 3BR points value gets me a 2BR in exchange back to my home resort in a higher-demand season, with points left over to be used in a studio or 1BR somewhere else, how is that any different than what I said in the post you quoted? This is what I said - what is different about how it's working?

Thi is your quote about how II was treating you unfairly:

What happens now with my 3BR non-lockoff in II isn't as fair. 3BR inventory is extremely limited so up to this point I've had to accept 2BR units in exchanges regardless of whether the exchange resort is of more or less quality than what I own

Now when Marriott does the same thing under the points program you post that it is "satisfactory " because it is all you could get before. It was unsatisfactory when II made you downgrade exchanges from 3 bed to 2 bed units as stated above. Now it is "satisfactory" because marriott points are doing the same thing? You still can't exchange like for like, the only difference is unlike the rest of us who are shorted points by Marriott's skimming, you can still get a 2 bed unit and have some change left over. Well we can do the same thing. We can reserve one bed room units using our 2 bed deposit and have some change left too, but that still precludes you and the rest of us from being able to make like for like exchanges, and that is sooo wrong. I just thought you might finally admit it too.

I guess your loyalty won't let you say bad things about Marriot even when the facts are in front of you in black and white. You had no problem being upset with II for making you accept 2 bed exchanges for your 3 bed deposit with an AC left as change, but it is now somehow "satisfactory" to have Marriott not give you enough points to get the same 3 bed exchange you were upset that II wouldn't give you, and it is now OK when Marriott using points makes you settle for 2 bed exchanges plus some change. I guess what is most important with regards to whether you are upset or not is whether it is Marriott or II that is cheating you out of swapping your 3 bed unit for like 3 bed units, rather than the unequitable trades themselves.

 

[DanCali]

Hi jg - (what the heck am I doing over here!? just curious... like watching a car-wreck...) - if I understand the definition of 'breakage' (misaligned # of points needed to trade into a resort than given to owners) - there are a couple of SVO resorts that do this (e.g. SVR-Fountains I believe - I do not own these...) where the amount of SOs (points) to exchange into a resort is higher than given to owners.

the mantra - buy where you want to go has never been more true - back to the Starwood board I go.

Must be slow on the Starwood board these days

With SVR that was a legacy issue where people got the average of their "old" season, which was float 1-52. But, as far as I know, it was the true average (76K points). Some weeks are more and some are less (67K or 81K) to trade into, depending on the "new" season.

 

[ArtsieAng]

wuv pooh

So far I can think of two ways you can be harmed:

1. If they 'raid' weeks inventory.
2. If there is a permanent reduction in resale value.

Any others?

How about it being more difficult to get a decent week at your home resort? Does that not count as being harmed, because to me, that's huge! I can't see how this new system will not impact reserving your week at your home resort unless you are a premier/premier plus owner.

Do you believe it will have no impact on reserving at your home resort?

edited to add: So, I may not be able to get any decent trades, because Marriott may raid weeks in the system, and I most likely won't be able to reserve a decent week to use at my home resort......How much worse can it get?

Marriott = The Grinch That Stole Christmas! LOL

 

[jerseygirl]

To be fair, here are examples of fees associated with Hilton, where all "points in" are equal to "points out:"

Annual Dues $99
Home Reservation $0
Club Reservation $49 (can make most changes without penalty)
Convert to Hhonors Points $69
Deposit Forward ("bank") $69
Borrow $0

So, it would appear that if own owns many weeks and makes multiple "club" transactions each year, the fees are certainly higher than Marriott's all inclusive fee. Is this a similar "cost" to Marriott's "breakage/skimming?" I'll leave that to the DanCalis and BocaBums who love to perform complicated financial calculations! I just know that my own personal preference is to pay for the perks I use each year, and only the perks I use, with the confidence that my number of points is exactly equal to the number of points required for comparable trades.

 

[jerseygirl]

Must be slow on the Starwood board these days

With SVR that was a legacy issue where people got the average of their "old" season, which was float 1-52. But, as far as I know, it was the true average (76K points). Some weeks are more and some are less (67K or 81K) to trade into, depending on the "new" season.

Agreed -- I posted about it here:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=933199#post933199

Also agree that it's slow on the Starwood board these days! Who would have ever thought Marriott could "out trump" Starwood when it comes to bad publicity! Maybe our resale values will start to rise!

 

[DavidnRobin]

Must be slow on the Starwood board these days

With SVR that was a legacy issue where people got the average of their "old" season, which was float 1-52. But, as far as I know, it was the true average (76K points). Some weeks are more and some are less (67K or 81K) to trade into, depending on the "new" season.

Yep - and I am still basking in vacation glow from our 2-weeks at Westin St John...

I was over here to try and figure out what was going on - this thread must be the all-time winner in the #post/day. As a partially biased non-Marriott owner - Marriott is really screwing Marriott Owners here no matter how one cuts it. I am afraid that the upper-managment at SVO is trying to figure out how to outdue MVC managment in screwing over their owners so they can be #1 again in sucking as much $ they can from the Owners while keeping their house of cards from falling... It might be challenging - but I am sure SVO will come up with something.

 

[jerseygirl]

I am afraid that the upper-managment at SVO is trying to figure out how to outdue MVC managment in screwing over their owners so they can be #1 again in sucking as much $ they can from the Owners while keeping their house of cards from falling... It might be challenging - but I am sure SVO will come up with something.

My fears exactly! :hysterical:

 

[tombo]

I believe that is incorrect logically and ethically.

You are no worse off if you do not join, subject to my two disclaimers.

If you do join you receive an additional benefit. Presumably you would not join unless unless the benefit was equal to the cost of joining.

The only other option is that your feel compelled to join out of fear or intimidation so you do not truly have a choice. From your posts I do not believe that you feel that way.

So again I ask, Why is it theft for Marriott to give me more value while not harming you in any way?

So far I can think of two ways you can be harmed:

1. If they 'raid' weeks inventory.
2. If there is a permanent reduction in resale value.

Any others?

Those are the 2 main possible problems from not converting, however the spin offs from those 2 main things create a possible myriad of new losses in actual useage for those of us who won't convert.

Every time someone joins points Marriott gets their vote. How long before weeks owners can be outvoted by Marriott on anything Marriott feels like doing? This was sold as an owners program, the points trust setup with now vote turns it into a Marriott program with members paying dues. This is a whole different situation than people bought into.

If enough people join points to where there is little inventory to exchange for, I have lost access to what I have traded for in the past, and what I could have continued trading for in the future if Marriott hadn't implemented a totally separate points program. All inventory was weeks. Everything Marriot sold was weeks. I had as much access to Marriot inventory as every other owner. Now there are 2 separate classes and groups of owners, weeks and points. Marriott avors points from a profit standpoint and is looking to create advantages for points owners to convince them to convert. Marriott is trying to get everyone into points, they are only selling points, and they are probably raiding weeks II prime inventory to put into points inventory. They are activelly trying to make access to weeks inventory as small as possible to promote points, and any advantages given to points owners will be translated into disadvantages to weeks owners who don't convert.

Win or lose I am not converting. The fact that they might not actually be able to reduce my resale value or drastically diminish my access to exchange inventory (depending on the success of points), none of that changes the fact that they are trying to make what I purchased, what they originally sold, become as close to worthless as they can make it. And that is theft of dollar value and intrinsic values whether you can actually attach a dollar value to it or not.

 

[SueDonJ]

Thi is your quote about how II was treating you unfairly:



Now when Marriott does the same thing under the points program you post that it is "satisfactory " because it is all you could get before. It was unsatisfactory when II made you downgrade exchanges from 3 bed to 2 bed units as stated above. Now it is "satisfactory" because marriott points are doing the same thing? You still can't exchange like for like, the only difference is unlike the rest of us who are shorted points by Marriott's skimming, you can still get a 2 bed unit and have some cange left over. Well we can do the same thing. We can reserve one bed room units using our 2 bed deposit and have some change left too, but that still precludes you and the rest of us from being able to make like for like exchanges, and that is sooo wrong. I just thought you might finally admit it too.

I guess your loyalty won't let you say bad things about Marriot even when the facts are in front of you in black and white. You had no problem being upset with II for making you accept 2 bed exchanges for your 3 bed deposit with an AC left as change, but it is now somehow "satisfactory" to have Marriott not give you enough points to get the same 3 bed exchange you were upset that II wouldn't give you, and it is now OK whne Marriott using points makes you settle for 2 bed exchanges plus some change.

You're not understanding what I'm saying (or you're deliberately misconstruing it to fit your argument?)

With II my 3BR deposit for an exchange request, whether it's back into my home resort or not, would 99.9% of the time get me a 2BR in return because of the lack of availability. This particular example is a Gold for a Plat request, which puts me somewhere below all the Plat deposits which have higher trade value than mine. Some years a Plat week deposit gave me an AC in addition which required usage fees; AC's have not been offered for the same 2011 deposit.

With Points my 3BR Gold is worth 4625; a 2BR in a week which falls on the weeks calendar as a Plat will cost me 3725 points for a gardenview or 4500 for an oceanside unit. Both give me MORE than what I'd get with II. And I've looked at other resorts for exchanging, even posted in this thread about one example, and am happy with the results.

You're right. They're not giving me for my interval enough points for me to exchange back in and book that interval. But they ARE giving me enough points to get MORE than what I could reasonably expect from II, and that's enough for me. That's what I said would be enough for me.

It isn't enough for everyone. I get that. It isn't enough for you, obviously. But for whatever reason, you want everyone under the sun to agree with you that "IT IS NOT ENOUGH" across the board. I'm sorry, but I just don't agree.

 

[wuv pooh]

How about it being more difficult to get a decent week at your home resort? Does that not count as being harmed, because to me, that's huge! I can't see how this new system will not impact reserving your week at your home resort unless you are a premier/premier plus owner.

Do you believe it will have no impact on reserving at your home resort?

That is a good one.

Right now we are all eligible to call in at 12 months for at least 50% of the inventory.

Has this changed?

Can Marriott call in at 9:00:00 for its points users who want that week on the wait list and everyone else can call in at 9:00:01. For weeks that Marriott controls can they 'jump' the gun on us or does the fact that they are premier plus owners mean that they will always reserve up to 50% of the inventory 13 months out if their points owners demand it and never really think about it again.

I think they document where weeks come from, but do they document how they will use floating weeks in the inventory system? If the resort has 50 units and 50 people turn in floating weeks can they book all 50 of those in one week or do they have to be proportinate?

 

[Y-ASK]

I have a week worth 5000 points. I deposit it with Marriott. They give me fewer points than the value of what I gave them. They pocket the difference. Whether you want to call them con men, theives, or simply unethical businessmen, the end result is I don't get the full value of the ponts allocated to my week.

Boy are you hung up on this. Yes we know you don't like the system. I respect your opinion and right to say so (maybe not over and over ), but come on, calling Marriott "theives", "con men", etc is way over the top.

If you have a $100 worth 10000 pennies and you open a checking account in a regular bank and do nothing for two years, I bet when you go to withdrawal that 10000 pennies you only have 8000-9000 left if you're lucky. Would you call that bank a bunch of theives?

It's the price of doing business and no one said that you had to deposit that $100 bucks into that bank in the 1st place. You could have deposited it in a Credit Union and not lost anything...

So please tone it down some. Not all of us feel like we are getting ripped off...

Y-ASK

 

[floyddl]

To be fair, here are examples of fees associated with Hilton, where all "points in" are equal to "points out:"

Annual Dues $99
Home Reservation $0
Club Reservation $49 (can make most changes without penalty)
Convert to Hhonors Points $69
Deposit Forward ("bank") $69
Borrow $0

So, it would appear that if own owns many weeks and makes multiple "club" transactions each year, the fees are certainly higher than Marriott's all inclusive fee. Is this a similar "cost" to Marriott's "breakage/skimming?" I'll leave that to the DanCalis and BocaBums who love to perform complicated financial calculations! I just know that my own personal preference is to pay for the perks I use each year, and only the perks I use, with the confidence that my number of points is exactly equal to the number of points required for comparable trades.

I agree and this is especially true of an owner that only has one week. The 7% breakage far exceeds any saving a single week owner can recoup on Marriott's fixed annual fee. I own Hilton also and find the program to be excellent (except for the limited locations). I don't know about other programs but Hilton will not allow single night reservations (3 night min) until the 60 day window. I think Marriott allowing it starting at 13 months may lead to more breakage but that unused time has been paid for in dues.