Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

rickxylon said:

Welcome!....

....Rick : I'm not concerned about traveling to my home resort. My concern is being able to go to a comparable resort for what my week is worth. If my week is worth 2975 points for someone else to reserve, I should have the same number of points to use for reserving at some other resort.
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Daniel left the chat just like that with no good bye and never answered my questions.

FRUSTRATING!!!!

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Hope you took the "short survey" Does it allow you to enter anything besides canned responses??
I can't even get anyone to chat with me!! :rofl: Just tried and there is no one available

This thread reads like a classic Kubler-Ross grief course:hysterical: :

(1) Denial: I can't believe Marriott did this to us.
(2) Anger: This is ridiculous, I'm going to...
(3) Bargaining: If I join I still can still use my week can't I?
(4) Depression: Yeah, the new system really sucks...
(5) Acceptance: I guess joining is better than not joining...

<sorry> thought everyone might need a little humor!:rofl:

Is it just me or is that "Sophi" in all the points videos REALLY annoying?

I mean, c'mon....

rsackett said:

All this brings up a good point. What is a Point worth? Is it the $0.40 that marriott will charge in maint fees? Is it twice maint fees like DVC points go for? What do you guys think?

Ray

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Didn't we just set the price at $0.50? "

wsrobinson said:

Seems reasonable...$400/800 pt allotment to all comers!

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On a more serious note - ifthere is a market to rent points, competition will probably lower it to $0.40 or so.

Such a deal!

I was offered 4025 points for my wks yet the cheapest cost in points for a off peak wk is 4050 and the most expensive or primetime wks are 4800 points. Owning more than 1 wk, I have no problem reserving primetime wks with the old system. I see little to gain for me unless they sweeten their offer.
Also, what is to stop them from holding your points/yr at a given level and raising the points required to stay at your resort or other locations?!

Sometimes, as a Marriott timeshare buyer, I feel like these people...

That's a riot...lol :hysterical:

And do we really believe that Sophi is Marriott Vacation Advisor. Can you say "Marketing Person?"

How Long Before We See the First ....

The First poor vacationer ends up here on Tug.

Need Advice. I just bought a 6000 pt package for $55,000 while I was touring Lakeshore Reserve. The system is really nice.

Should I rescind????

I say any day now, hopefully before week is out!

Numismatist said:

Sometimes, as a Marriott timeshare buyer, I feel like these people...

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Numismatist, thank you for that one. I laughed out loud.:hysterical:

Hey, it is better than crying, right?

MVCD Points on the Resale Market....?

What is the general theory here.

My theory here is that in about 1 or 2 years some of the new points package owners will want out.

As Boca has hinted earlier a resale market will develop. Now I can see how this might mature. As the new packages hit the Market, or as they pass thru Marriott's sniff test. Marriott will let these packages fall into the Market Place. I suspect this might happen because Marriott does not really want to carry the MF's on these points. Marriott wants to continue to Build out, Develop and sell new packages.

This is just my gut feeling. Yes Marriott might take some back and recycle but only a select few.

Marriott's real goal is to Develop more TS's and to continue on building and selling new Points packages.

Reflections

I was wandering: why would Marriott introduce this kind of system and who are the target customers?

Remembering recent threads here, I could see that Fletch (explaining why Marriott wants a new system) and Perry (how it would be done) were right.

The target customers are not us, the existing owners, internal or external. No. Marriott wants to sell their high end weeks on the new resorts and don't know how to do it with the current (or extinct) system. On the new Point System, it would be easier to do it (or at least Marriott people think it would).

How do you convince someone to buy a developer unit at Hawaii or Marco Island for $60k to $100k? Under the new system, you buy these weeks and get 9,000 to 13,000 points/year. You can use your week at your resort or, converting it to points and have 3, 4 or even 5 weeks in different resorts, like Newport Coast, HHI, or even Orlando during their high season. You will even be able to beat the owners choosing their own weeks.

BTW, we all know that they won't be able to sell those weeks because they are very expensive in this economy and any other economy.

This new system will only be good for current owners of Hawaii, ski weeks. and maybe for those others that have combined more than 7,000 points (which should be the minority). Somebody said (I can't remember where) that someone on the phone said they are expecting only 5% of current owners to join this new program, and I think this is true.

During the next weeks, it will be important for those attending presentations to see what the representatives will be focusing. They won't offer Lakeshore or even the small inventory at the desert. They should be pushing only the expensive weeks.

Am I right? Who knows, time will tell. If this happens and just 5% join the new system, we won't see much of a difference on the II inventory. In fact, even if this new system succeeds, people will be reserving the weeks they want direct at the resort, it won't be necessary to use any week deposit at II.

With a well designed points program that offered fair value for the weeks there would really be no need for an internal exchange program. Let people make their own exchanges using the points they are allotted. Now it seems that to get an equitable exchange you would need to use their internal exchange program. There should be no need to offer both. Yes, the have succeeded in giving people more flexibility and options but the points program is not a desirable one.

billymach4 said:

What is the general theory here.

My theory here is that in about 1 or 2 years some of the new points package owners will want out.

As Boca has hinted earlier a resale market will develop. Now I can see how this might mature. As the new packages hit the Market, or as they pass thru Marriott's sniff test. Marriott will let these packages fall into the Market Place. I suspect this might happen because Marriott does not really want to carry the MF's on these points. Marriott wants to continue to Build out, Develop and sell new packages.

This is just my gut feeling. Yes Marriott might take some back and recycle but only a select few.

Marriott's real goal is to Develop more TS's and to continue on building and selling new Points packages.

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I am not convinced that Marriott's goal is to continue timeshare development. The points program seems to be designed to allow them to unload inventory of low demand weeks at a premium price. They have no future building plans at this time, haven't they suspended new developments?

Numismatist said:

This thread reads like a classic Kubler-Ross grief course:hysterical: :

(1) Denial: I can't believe Marriott did this to us.
(2) Anger: This is ridiculous, I'm going to...
(3) Bargaining: If I join I still can still use my week can't I?
(4) Depression: Yeah, the new system really sucks...
(5) Acceptance: I guess joining is better than not joining...

<sorry> thought everyone might need a little humor!:rofl:

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Hey, I recognize myself in the above post - that is me in a nutshell!!!:hysterical: :rofl:

billymach4 said:

What is the general theory here.

My theory here is that in about 1 or 2 years some of the new points package owners will want out.

As Boca has hinted earlier a resale market will develop. Now I can see how this might mature. As the new packages hit the Market, or as they pass thru Marriott's sniff test. Marriott will let these packages fall into the Market Place. I suspect this might happen because Marriott does not really want to carry the MF's on these points. Marriott wants to continue to Build out, Develop and sell new packages.

This is just my gut feeling. Yes Marriott might take some back and recycle but only a select few.

Marriott's real goal is to Develop more TS's and to continue on building and selling new Points packages.

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My theory is that the points program won't work very well for new buyers; except for those places where Marriott still had lots of inventory. Marriott can put all those unsold weeks in the pool, someone buys enough points to travel to that destination, and there you go - a working system. Where people will get pissed pretty quickly is in places that are sold out, or where Marriott owned very little. If Marriott is not allowed to raid the II deposits, then the new points owners will have little choices and figure out quickly that they were duped and want out. If Marriott raids the system and the new points buyer gets what they want, when they want it, then the market may stay firm for points buyers, and weeks owners will get shafted.

I can totally see people buying enough points to go here or there as cheap as possible, then upgrading later if it works out. I did this (as well as lots of others) with DVC. Buy enough to get in, see it work, then buy more. However, if it does not work, then it could crash pretty quickly.

The way I see it, I did not buy developer through Marriott because it was way too expensive, so I bought resale. The points program is way too expensive for me as well, if I were a new points purchaser. Maybe a resale will work in the future, if the price is right. I paid $13,000 out the door for my Maui week; which at the time was going for about $26,000 plus fees. If I were to buy enough points at the "discounted" rate right now of $9.20 per point, and travel a summer week in the same size and view unit I own, it would cost me $32,660 (3,550 points). The only savings would be about $60 per year in maintenance fees. For me in Hawaii, points are cheaper in maintenance than what they hit me for today. So all in all, I guess I should be happy I still have my resale, but I do wish this points program worked better for me.

floyddl said:

I am not convinced that Marriott's goal is to continue timeshare development. The points program seems to be designed to allow them to unload inventory of low demand weeks at a premium price. They have no future building plans at this time, haven't they suspended new developments?

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They have, but more as a result of the impact from the economy's woes on discretionary spending than anything else, I think. All indications to stockholders are that in-progress development will continue, and new development will occur, when the economy rebounds (and possibly now that the new Points system will stimulate investment in existing resorts?)

They really did hit the perfect storm between the economy and the fact that the resorts in development at the time were a new tier of higher quality/priced offerings - Marco Island, Oceana Palms, etc. I don't think they expected those to sell at quite the same rate that the older resorts had, knowing that the target demographic was more limited. But I also don't think that their development plans would have been quite so ambitious if they'd had use of a crystal ball.

SDMiller said:

Where is it on the Marriott website how many points it takes to do the "trips" ie Safari, etc. We have not yet joined but are thinking about it for we have five weeks at different resorts.

SD

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https://www.my-vacationclub.com/en-us/owners/2_global.jsp

Numismatist said:

Sometimes, as a Marriott timeshare buyer, I feel like these people...

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That was hilarious! I kept that one LOL

MikeZ said:

Just got off the phone with Owner Services, and am now madder than ever! After being put on hold for 16 minutes when I asked about the disparity in points given/points needed, the rep came back on and told me that he "didn't really get a good answer." He told me that he has been asking the same question since he was initially trained and hasn't gotten any response. I asked him why he thought they would do it, and he told me "probably to get you to buy more points!" I love honesty, at least!

He asked if I wanted to file an official complaint with his supervisor, as that may make a difference with enough people calling. After another wait, she came on and proceeded to insult my intelligence! When I described my principal concern as not being able to trade like-for-like, she told me that has never been the case. I gave her my trading history with my Waiohai unit, and she told me I MUST JUST BE LUCKY!

It went downhill after that....

She could not explain why a unit I am given 5075 points for will take 6125 for someone else to use, or what happens to those extra points. All she kept saying was that "owners wanted more flexibility" and "owners hate dealing with Interval."

They both admitted thay they were both uncertain of how to deal with these questions, because they were told it wouldn't be a concern to us. The concern definitely rolls uphill!

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Making official complains will probably be the only way the people that actually can change this in Marriott hear this. Calling a call rep that had nothing to do with creating the program and arguing the point isnt going to solve anything. They all probably think its silly also. After enough complaints that make it up the chain to upper management, maybe that will do something.

James1975NY said:

Lets use a Starwood example to compare this to. At the Sheraton Vistana Villages which is part of the Starwood Club they have a similar situation where an owner at the Sheraton Vistana Villages is given 67,100 "club point" for their unit type and season. They have access to a certain range of weeks which do not matter for this discussion.

SVO also realizes that other owners at other club resorts want to come into this resort for those said weeks. They may require 81,000 from an owner that does not own at the Sheraton Vistana Villages to book one of "those" weeks while still charging the owner of the home resort the 67,100 for the same weeks.

This is what is happening with the Marriott program as well and is not uncommong for points programs. It is basically a way to get more points burned from the books by requiring more points in and at the same time, not giving the home resort owner more points to go "out" with. It is a way to try to balance the program and work towards burning points.

It is very likely that you will see the points requirements change from time to time as the program evolves but this is actually necessary for now to make sure that the program runs as whole as possible. They have the flexibility to make the program more efficient as time goes and they have a better understand of what to expect from owner usage.

So for now....."outside" owner burns more for the same week than the "home" resort owner would, but the "home" resort owner does not have as many points to play with if they should elect to book another resort in the club.

Nature of a new points program.

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I don't believe this is accurate. The Sheraton Vistana Villages owner receives 67,100 StarOptions ("points") if they own a low-season 2-bedroom unit (weeks 1-5, 18-22, 35-38, 48-50). It costs exactly 67,100 points for all Starwood members to trade into those same weeks (it takes 81000 StarOptions to trade into high season weeks, and owners of those high season weeks receive 81000 StarOptions). Points in = points out for Starwood Vacation Network internal trades (see below for an exception) -- there is no "skimming" involved.

Exception -- some of the older "pre-Starwood" Vistana Resort phases were sold as "float 1-52." These weeks were initially not part of the Starwood Vacation Network, but were invited to join after owners paid hefty special assessments to bring the units up to SVN standards. The newer Orlando resort (Sheraton Vistana Villages) was sold with two seasons, so Starwood had to come up with a way to "equalize" the two properties. They employed an "averaging" methodology similar to the one Marriott is using for the older, 1-52 float resort, and owners who chose to join the network were given 76,000 StarOptions, while trades in require 67,100 (low season) and 81,000 (high season). But, the 76,000 represents an average of all the low and high season weeks. So, although it's an exception to the "points in = points out" rule, there is still no skimming involved.

Believe me, Starwood is kicking itself for not coming up with the skimming scheme -- but it's important to note that even they don't do it at the present time.

Talked to my Marriott guide today, she is typically pretty honest. Her explanation of the "skim" is the increased points to stay at resorts reflects what Marriott now feels is the fair price to stay at the resorts. So that when they sell the new point packages people can buy the correct number of points that now reflect the true price of the resort. When I asked how this was "fair" to old week members, she responded that you still can use your week as always. The other thing that she said was "we told people for well over a year we have discounted pricing going on and they should buy know because prices are going up." It was an interesting conversation.

m61376 said:

Except that, while I generally respect his opinions, John's logic is flawed here. He has mistakenly assumed that Marriott fairly allotted the average value for each season to owners. There may be some cases where this is so, but there are MANY instances where Marirott allotted less points than required to book ANY week in the owned season. There is no way to argue that that us equitable.

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None of us have a way currently to double check the info. The question at this point really isn't whether they gave each owner a fair number but rather did they assign the appropriate number of points at each resort and in total that will be used at the resorts. A flexible system has losses in terms of orphaned days here and there. Also, as many made the point on the pre-change thread, off season owners may actually more up more than high season owners try to move down. It will be interesting to see the II and other required accounting that some states require be done including FL. Thus we should be able to get SOME additional info on the back end for the entire system I'd expect.

Numismatist said:

This thread reads like a classic Kubler-Ross grief course:hysterical: :

(1) Denial: I can't believe Marriott did this to us.
(2) Anger: This is ridiculous, I'm going to...
(3) Bargaining: If I join I still can still use my week can't I?
(4) Depression: Yeah, the new system really sucks...
(5) Acceptance: I guess joining is better than not joining...

<sorry> thought everyone might need a little humor!:rofl:

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I think for many this is going to be completely accurate. I'll likely be an easier sell than most because it favors both our situation and how we see using our Marriott's both as direct usage and to trade. I'm willing to pay a premium in points for a guaranteed booking rather than waiting for a trade, esp since the next fee structure will also save us several hundred $$$ a year overall, I'm guessing between $500 and $600 in savings.

Marriott Destination Points

I spoke to a "counselor" for over an hour Sunday about the new destination point system. He said that for someone like me, we usually go to our home resorts, that the destination point system probably would not be worth joining. My question is: We book at the Aruba Ocean Club for wks 51 and 52 annually. I own 3 weeks so I book wks 50-51. Will I now be in competition with someone who is multiple week owner in someplace like Branson, who has a lot of points and wants to go to Aruba? I pay a huge maintenance fee for Aruba and I would not like to have to compete with other owners from resorts that are not as valuable. It does not seem too fair to me. Anyone have any thoughts?

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