Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

[abdibile]

Has anyone been able to see the price Marriott is asking to purchase new points or the current MF associated with the points?

Do purchased points correspond to deeded real estate or just to usage for a certain period of time?

I think the answers to these questions will impact resale values of current week ownership.

I read something about "6 beneficial intersts" costing $14,010. A purchase incentive for this amount would be getting 2,000 PlusPoints (one time points valid through Dec 2011) But no clue how many points that are. Have not seen anything about maintenance fees.

 

[saturn28]

With this new hotel type system where every week can have a different points value to exchange, Marriott will likely change the cost every year. This means there will be a continued drip of more and more money from their present owners to have to purchase more points to stay at the Marriott resorts you want to exchange into.

 

[pacheco18]

So glad I love where I bought and I go where I bought.
I'll keep my deeds, my Ocean View at Ko'Olina and my Platinum weeks at Shadow Ridge. The only points that interest me are Rewards Points for hotel stays abroad and I can trade for those if I choose to. Unless you bought to trade, I see no benefit to this program at all. I think personal (non Interval) exchanges will flourish. This is the proverbial "pig in a poke."

Also - I wouldn't be tempted by any initial come on about low enrollment fees or bonus points to join "for a limited time." I guarantee that the folks at Marriott will have endless incentives to increase participation. Not so fast!

 

[PerryM]

These changes hardly seem to have warranted almost 3,000 postings, many of which expressing great angst at the grave injustice to which we were all about to be subjected. Just think how all of our properties might have benefited if that energy had been devoted to working constructively to address real issues rather than wringing hands for months speculating, analyzing and fretting over a parade of horribles that never appeared.

This is priceless...

 

[Dean]

You must close on the Marriott resale purchase before 6/20/2010. It is too late to buy resale now & be officially eligible to join the new program. I would hope Marriott finds a reasonable exception to this rule for future resale buyers. I see Marriott priced initial enrollment higher for existing resale buyers. I am ok with that difference. What about FUTURE resale buyers. Does Marriott want me? I waited for the details, now I see no reason to rush to buy if I cannot join the new program. Without an exception, I might as well wait to see if folks who don't join remain happy with their home resort season availability.

I suspect there will be exactly one exception, buying a retail purchase as part of the conversion.

 

[dougp26364]

Here's a nugget I found in the pdf file:
https://www.my-vacationclub.com/common/vc/en-us/pdfs/enrollment_legal_docs/exchange_procedures.pdf


(Page 3 of the document)

"...For administrative convenience in the operation of the Program and for determination of the respective rights of Exchange Members to enjoy the benefits of the Program, the Exchange Company will assign a Distribution of Exchange Points to each Exchange Member for Use Periods Deposited by the Exchange Member for exchange each Use Year. The number of Exchange Points in a Distribution for a particular Use Period is based on various factors such as relative daily and seasonal demand, Accommodation capacity, size, view, and furnishings, and other valuation parameters established by the Exchange Company and may very from year to year by such factors. The number of Exchange Points in a Distribution is not in any way intended to be reflective of the economic value of any Interest.

When an Exchange Member Deposits a Use Period with Exchange Company, such Exchange Member assigns and Exchange Company will automatically have all of such Exchange Member’s rights to reserve and use such Use Period for the given Use Year. Once such Use Period has been deposited with Exchange Company, it may not be withdrawn. ..."--------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is scary stuff...once you choose points for a week Marriott has the right to reserve and assign them in the 13 month reservation window? Also, your ability to get your request with your points is subject to availability and you may get put on a wait list if it is not available?? When you combine that with the unlimited ability of PremierPlus Owners to reserve whatever they want at 13 months out (1 day, 1 weekend, etc) Even converting to points only sounds good if you own enough multiple weeks to get to 12,000 points. Everyone else gets worse than the current 13 month rule as far as I can tell.

Disclaimer: I'm just doing a cursory glance through the docs, so: Maybe I'm just tired and cranky. I spent a long day helping DD's do multiple hair and costume changes for 2 dance recitals...

I think I'll go to bed and see what I find here tomorrow

I agree that this is scary stuff. They can arbitrarily change the number of points required to reserve a unit? When you by points with Marriott, now you're just buying the right to reserve some vacation time somewhere in the system. From year to year, you'll never know whether the points you originally purchased will be enough to reserve the week you targeted when you laid down you money. Essentially, reserving a week at any one particluar resort appears to have become a moving target for new owners.

Original owners maintain their right to occupy their home resort week by electing not to give up that week for points. New owners appear to buy an arbitrary number of points and hope that every year they'll have enough points to reserve that summer week at NCV they really wanted. But under this new system, if NCV becomes a hot property, Marriott can increase the number of points required to stay there and it appears they can do so at their discreation.

Now I understand that trade value will vary from year to year. Hawaii might have lost some trade value in recent years due to the economy. Maybe in a few more years, when the economy turns around, Hawaii might be the hot trade destination again and, even in a weeks based exchange system, that would be reflected by the fact it would be a more difficult exchange.

But to buy points with the intention of going to Hawaii under the new system when the points required are lower due to the economy, only to see the point requirement go up when things turn around and demand for Hawaii goes up, is bound to tick new owners under the points sytem off to no end. As a legacy owner it's not that big of a deal as I mainten the rights to use my home resort week when Hawaii is to expensive on the points chart. If I own in Hawaii under the original program, it's no big deal because I would retain the right to use my home resort week in my purchased season and in a unit the style/size in my contract. But for new owners, their desired destination has potentially become a moving target. Want to go to Hawaii in 2011? It will be 4,500 points. Want to go to Hawaii in 2020? We can't tell you how many points is it will require because the points required will vary depending on demand.

I'm glad I bought from Marriott when we did. We won't be buying from Marriott under their new program. There appears to be no way to guarentee what we buy today will get the accomadations we want tomorrow.

If good resale weeks become available at rock bottom prices because their locked out of the new system, it might be worth picking some up either to use or to exchange on the weeks based system with Interval (might become a hot commodity for Interval if it's an in demand week).

 

[dima]

Not all weeks I have available for enrollment.
Marbella and Phuket are mot eligible.

 

[abdibile]

My impression is that points enrollment does NOT transfer on resale of a legacy week.

The "Points Exchange" contract seems to be a personal contract between Marriott and myself, not really linked to the weeks I own, so should not transfer when I sell the deeded weeks.

The byuer of my deeded week will have his deed recorded abfter Juen 20 2010, so not be eligible to join the Points Exchange program.

 

[dougp26364]

Could this be right? My 3 bedroom platinum Grand Chateau is worth 4625 points. Using the Marriott point chart, I would need one of the following number of points to get back into my three bedroom villa, depending on date: 4675, 5225, 5400, or 6725. It looks like the value of my villa wouldn't even get me back into the same size villa using points for any date. I realize that I could simply reserve a week without using points, but wouldn't you think that the value of the platinum 3 bedroom unit should at least be equal to the number of points needed to book the same unit during the lowest point dates?

Not only that, but exchanging using points through I.I. will only get you a 2 bedroom unit in typical high season (TDI 115-130) with 625 points left over, which won't get you jack spit. Leaving that three bedroom alone will allow you to deposit a 2 bedroom and search for a 2 bedroom with the master suite and allow you to deposit and search for a 1 bedroom unit with the lock-off section. You'd be screwed using points to exchange through I.I. in this scenario. The only thing points would be good for would be exchanging direct through Marriott and, based upon their points chart, which always seems to require MORE points to trade in than Marriott gives up when you opt-in, owners get screwed on internal exchanges as well.

The more I read, the more I'm not really liking this program.

 

[jerseygirl]

Why does everyone believe they're only going to sell "pure points" going forward? Has this been announced? I'm at Lakeshore Reserve .... I hate going to timeshare presentations but I'll "take one for the team" and see what they're offering later this week if no one confirms the current offers ahead of time.

It seems to me that it would have been very complicated to file all new paperwork with every state involved to convert existing inventory to a club structure. Not that it couldn't have been done, of course ... but it seems to me that it's more like the Disney and Hilton systems. Buy a particular week, worth X points and subject to the same underlying maintenance fee that legacy owners pay ... with trade downs available at all times to stretch the number of vacation days, or the "bank and borrow" strategies to trade up to a more expensive/desired location.

 

[abdibile]

Not all weeks I have available for enrollment.
Marbella and Phuket are mot eligible.

From the vacationclub.com info:

Vacation Club Points and Vacation Club PlusPoints (=purchase incentive, on time points) are not offered at Marriott’s Frenchman’s Cove, Marriott’s St. Kitts Beach Club, Marriott’s Village d’lle-de-France, Marriott’s Playa Andaluza, Marriott’s Club Son Antem, Marriott’s Marbella Beach Resort, and Marriott’s Phuket Beach Club.

From the FAQ:

Please note at this time Marriott Vacation Club resorts located in Europe and Asia must still be confirmed through an Interval International internal exchange with no exchange fee for Enrolled Owners.

 

[NJDave]

I'm not quite sure if we can yet say that Marriott used the actual deeded week to determine the point value of your unit. We need to find out if all other Platinum Grande Vista weeks (I assume it was a 2 bedroom unit) were assigned 2775 points. If so, then it doesn't matter which week you were deeded within the Platinum season.

We own 2 Cypress Harbour weeks and both were assigned the same value (i.e. 2,650 points) even though one week is one of the best deeded weeks and the other is one of the worst.

 

[MikeB2620]

My concerns about this whole program change was with the ability of Marriott to change points requirements for a given resort at any time in the future.

They have done this periodically with their Rewards program concerning redeeming of points for hotel stays.

I wonder if they will be selling "home resort advantage" to new purchasers when they buy points? That way, if a person wants to buy in Hawaii, and purchases the number of points needed, they will always be guaranteed to be able to reserve Hawaii? If not, would caution people about buying Marriott in the future.

 

[ira g]

Will maintenance fees jump with this points program?

Daily night reservations will cause cleaning fees to rise. Who will pay for that the owners at the particular timeshare or is there a charge for less than a weeks reservation?

 

[abdibile]

The only thing points would be good for would be exchanging direct through Marriott and, based upon their points chart, which always seems to require MORE points to trade in than Marriott gives up when you opt-in, owners get screwed on internal exchanges as well.

We have to take into account that internal points excahnges and points excahnges through Interval do not have to pay an exchange fee for each excahnge, this is all covered in the Club Fees. For multiple weeks owners this saving adds up.

In addition you are much more flexible with points, being able to book different check in days and lengths of stays.

Let's be fair and not just compare Sat-Sat weeks to the old weesk system.

 

[dougp26364]

I'm not quite sure if we can yet say that Marriott used the actual deeded week to determine the point value of your unit. We need to find out if all other Platinum Grande Vista weeks (I assume it was a 2 bedroom unit) were assigned 2775 points. If so, then it doesn't matter which week you were deeded within the Platinum season.

In my case, I would like to find out if any Platinum 3 bedroom units at Grand Chateau were assigned a value other than 4625 points. Any Platinum 3 bedroom villa Grand Chateau owners out there?

Yes, I haven't managed to get the web site to give me the info yet. I actually own two MGC weeks. Both EOY weeks as we originally bought EOY but decided we liked it well enough to exercise the option to buy the corresponding EOY week. Should be interesting to see if they give me different point values for each week, the same point values for each week or if they average them both together somehow. My bet is their giving everyone what they consider an "average" point value for all the weeks combined.

 

[Dean]

My Mac couldn't access it but the Dell did. I only see one point figure (7475) but nothing else. We own a fixed week/2 BR unit at MM1 (Maui Lahaina tower). Where do you find the other figures? Do I have to go a page further? I don't want to sign up by accident.

Got it with a Mac using Firefox.

 

[abdibile]

Why does everyone believe they're only going to sell "pure points" going forward? Has this been announced?

Information on their www.vacationclub.com website (which has completely changed last night) sounds a lot like they are only going to sell points packages "Beneficial Interests" in the future.

 

[MikeB2620]

It does say in the fine print of the points requirement catalog

IN THE EVENT POINT VALUES ARE CHANGED, NO TRUST OWNER WILL BE PREVENTED FROM USING THE ACCOMMODATIONS IN THE SAME MANNER AS WAS PROVIDED FOR UNDER THE ORIGINAL PURCHASE CONTRACT

Maybe they will offer "home resort advantage" to future purchasers.

Sorry for the second post.

 

[abdibile]

We own 2 Cypress Harbour weeks and both were assigned the same value (i.e. 2,650 points) even though one week is one of the best deeded weeks and the other is one of the worst.

Same for Willow Ridge Lodge. They seem not to rely on the deeded week, just on the season you bought.

 

[windje2000]

Points will not roll over but will be forfeited

A quick reading of the exchange procedures seems to say that you have to specify whether points will be used for the current year or the following year (banked) and can ONLY be used for the year specified. Points not used in the year specified will be FORFEITED.

That was one of the advantages of Interval's system--you could trade for the current year OR two years out, without having to specify anything, and without the risk of forfeiting anything.

 

[dougp26364]

At Cypress Harbour, we don't even get enough points to book any week in our season. We are allocated 2,650 points but it takes at least 2,675 to reserve any week. The average value should have been 2,828 rounded to 2,825. I think we are being penalized since this resort is sold out and not in Marriott's inventory.

Week Points

1 2,675
2 2,675
3 2,675
4 2,675
5 3,225
6 2,900
7 2,900
8 2,900
9 2,900
10 2,900
11 2,900
12 2,900
13 2,675
14 2,675
15 2,675
16 2,675
17 2,675
51 2,900
52 3,225

Average Value 2,828

I should have read just a little further.

So, Marriott is giving the shaft to existing owners by not even alotting them what would be enough points to rebook into their home resort. It seems Marriott has place a higher value on the weeks than they are willing to give their owners.

 

[siberiavol]

There are big differences in point values within the old seasons based on the date of the deed at many resorts including Ocean Pointe which is unfortunate for many.

 

[abdibile]

My bet is their giving everyone what they consider an "average" point value for all the weeks combined.

The points you get when converting a wek into points seem to be significantly less than the average points required to reserve the weeks in the whole season.

But we have to take into account the higher flexibility when booking through points and the exchange fee being included in the Club Fees, so I would not see it as too unfair.

 

[MikeB2620]

I have also noticed on the points values, that for beach resorts, in the prime summer season, you can reserve a "Fri-Sun" and a "Sun-Thurs", for much less points needs for a "Full Week".

I guess you would have to change rooms, but what the heck, the savings in points is substantial.