Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

[wuv pooh]

What about the 7% skimming? Given where you are on this argument, its convenient to exclude, but isn't that a real cost? And if you stay longet than one year, it's an annual cost.

If you get skimmed 800 points, that's another $400.

Skimming is independent of the choice. It only comes into the equation if you actually USE points.

Presumably you would not use points unless you thought you gained some advantage by doing so ie. booked a prime week, prime view, Mon-Thur stay, etc. You have to decide if the flexibility is worth the skim, but it does not impact your decision to enroll in the new exchange company which allows you to do everything a weeks owner can plus more options.

 

[thadius65]

Prior to leaving Surf Club on Monday, we attended an early morning preview to go over new system. Figured would listen and get 15k rewards points for the quick 90mins.

Basic theme - very exicited, all resorts now your "home" resort, more flexibility, blah blah blah...

I used two examples gathered from this forum:

1). switch to points and get 3075 for surf club 2 bd villa, gold. What used to trade pretty well with Maui... now need almost double. How is that flexible Mr. Sales person?

2). switch to points, get 3075... later decide to go back to my old home resort... 3500 points to get back in.

Both of these "flexible" options after paying the resale entry fee. I asked how that was a good move. He then changed up to showing how you could do a day here, two there... three there... and so on. Could not come up with a closer on this.

We ended at 90min mark. Lady came in for post review and rated the guys performance and when asked how likely to buy points, or switch on a scale of 1-10... I said 4 and used my examples and indicated needed more time to see the program unfold and educate myself. We were offered a 6night stay at home resort for $1299 for 1bedroom villa and $1499 for two bedroom villa with all those funds going to whatever we choose. So we have 18months to use from today and if we decide to do the points, we at least got a week out of it. If not... another week on my favorite island.

So basically for cost of maintenance, got another week for 2011. Foolish not to, or ??

 

[irish]

So now I'm a little confused by the Ocean Pointe points chart. We own Silver season but, there appear to be multiple points allocations depending on the week you choose for different weeks in what is now Silver season. I wonder if this means some owners will be screwed since none of us had a choice of what week we were assigned when we purchased.

We own a 3 bedroom silver season ocean front unit.If our deeded week happens to fall in Sept, then it's only worth 2,900 points. However, Oct weeks are worth 4,000 points and Nov. to Dec. 20th weeks are worth 5,900 points. So, do you get screwed if you got assigned a bum week way back when Marriott wasn't even thinking about points? I guess I better take a quick look to see what week we were deeded.

I see the same issue with Grand Chateau. Grand Chateau was sold as all platinum weeks with one platinum plus week, yet there are THREE different point values depending on your dates of travel. Which one will we get? Is this a cruel joke played upon those who bought under the old system when Marriott told us it didnt' matter what week was on our deed? Right now I'm not liking the fact they have multiple point valuations yet, when we originally purchased, we weren't given a choice of what week we were assigned. If owners are going to find themselves with different point valuations, then I guess some of us won the lottery and some of us lost, yet we never even knew we were playing or even had a choice.

this was also posted on page 1 or 2 of the thread.
so was this clarified somewhere else and i just missed it?

 

[tombo]

I like that too.

I wonder what the "points for cruise" option will look like. At present my week isn't worth much more than maint fee if going for a cruise via II.

But you won't get enough points to reserve the week you deposited if you attempt to do so the following year, and you also won't be able to use your points to reserve any like unit which Marriott charges the same number of points to rent as what you deposited.

 

[DanCali]

Skimming is independent of the choice. It only comes into the equation if you actually USE points.

Your "analysis" factored in savings of lockoff II fees. It therefore assumes exchanges. If you assume exchanges, you should factor in the cost of skimming... It is a real cost.

No, you will have to be happy with the incentive you were given to join. If you feel that is a significant risk then you should not join. I would evaluate it as a cost x probability

Enrollment fee $700
Value of 800 points $400 - Make up your own number
Net Cost to enroll - $300
Probability of hating new system - 50% - Make up your own number
Expected cost to join - $150
Expected savings in one year with 1 lock off and 2 Marriott II trades - $217
Net Cost of joining for one year - -$67

I will join based on the analysis. YMMV

 

[Dave M]

irish -

It was long ago clarified. The week you own gets a certain number of points based on the season in which you own. Period.

If you want to reserve a week at your resort, call up and do it just as you do now.

Would you want to opt for points and reserve at your home resort? No, because it will generally cost more points to stay at your resort than you own.

However, when those who do use points to stay at your resort choose a week to reserve, it will cost them varying levels of points to stay at your resort - even within a single season. That should not affect you, assuming you always use your week (not points, even if you enroll), when you want to stay at your home resort.

 

[gmarine]

No, you will have to be happy with the incentive you were given to join. If you feel that is a significant risk then you should not join. I would evaluate it as a cost x probability

Enrollment fee $700
Value of 800 points $400 - Make up your own number
Net Cost to enroll - $300
Probability of hating new system - 50% - Make up your own number
Expected cost to join - $150
Expected savings in one year with 1 lock off and 2 Marriott II trades - $217
Net Cost of joining for one year - -$67

I will join based on the analysis. YMMV

You dont care that by joining Marriott insists you give up your right to vote with your HOA against anything to do with Marriott ?

 

[MountainGal]

Oh really. In another thread someone that toured today was told by their sales person that 86% of Marriott weeks owners have already joined the new destination points system and 35% of those owners purchased points. That is an amazing rate. Expeically when you consider the program was roled out yesterday.

You got to be kidding. I contacted friends that own Marriott and they had no idea there were changes effective 6/20. Who's kidding who? :hysterical:

 

[sparty]

Is points usage immediate or 2011?

I've been reading the threads and looking on-line at Marriott and have a call into marriott but I can't find when usage begins? I am looking to use points in December of 2010, possible? Or does usage only start in 2011?

 

[urple2]

Looks to me that it has all boiled down to two camps... those afraid to join and those afraid not to join...

If indeed marriott can raid interval and take my deposits and use those to support their sorry point system is ridiculous and appears to me to be illegal! This alone would prevent me from joining this system let alone all the other nonsense and verbage.

 

[Dave M]

Your "analysis" factored in savings of lockoff II fees. It therefore assumes exchanges. If you assume exchanges, you should factor in the cost of skimming... It is a real cost.

I don't believe that's true. Skimming is a cost if you elect to exchange using points. However, if you elect to use your week (even if you are "enrolled" in points) to exchange, it's week for week for the exchange.

 

[Dave M]

I've been reading the threads and looking on-line at Marriott and have a call into marriott but I can't find when usage begins? I am looking to use points in December of 2010, possible? Or does usage only start in 2011?

See this quote at several MVCI web pages (including this one) (log-in required):

Owners participating in the Marriott Vacation Club DestinationsTM Exchange Program may begin making reservations on Monday, July 26, 2010. Until then, please utilize this Web site or contact your Vacation Ownership Advisor (800-845-4226) to familiarize yourself with the new program’s benefits and receive answers to your questions.

 

[wuv pooh]

Your "analysis" factored in savings of lockoff II fees. It therefore assumes exchanges. If you assume exchanges, you should factor in the cost of skimming... It is a real cost.

No, I have to pay to lockoff and occupy. They are Marriott lockoff fees. It also assumes II WEEKS exchanges, which I currently make and will continue to make if it is in my own self interest. It has nothing to do with points.

Again, the decision to change exchange companies has NOTHING to do with points. Only if you elect points does that factor into anything.

 

[jgalt19808]

Points adjustment

I checked the number of points for my unit on Sunday , 6/20/2010 and the number was 2600. Today, when I was preparing to enroll, my point value was listed as 1925. A MVC owner representative told me that all other owners at my resort/season had been awarded 1925 points and that this was the first time they had encountered this problem. Unfortunately, I did not print the 2600 point page.

HAs this happened to anyone else?

 

[urple2]

and they can continue to adjust that point quantity anytime they want to.

 

[wuv pooh]

You dont care that by joining Marriott insists you give up your right to vote with your HOA against anything to do with Marriott ?

In 10 years x 2 resorts - 20 votes I have probably voted about 7 times and I have never voted for anything besides what the HOA recommended. How about you? Has anything at any resort ever been approved that was not recommended by the HOA?

I don't concern myself with rights that I don't really have anyway. I would expect that in the case of changing Management companies that I would always vote to retain Marriott anyway or I would sell. Not interested in being managed by another firm.

 

[SueDonJ]

Well, this and the implied statement "since you don't care about resale value, we'll charge the person you sell to $1500 to so they can you the timeshare like you did. Sure, it will lower resale value, but you don't care anyway."

Dan, the way it stands now NO weeks that are sold on the external market and closed after 6/20/10 will be eligible to enroll in the Points program. It doesn't matter if existing Weeks owners now enroll or not - the Enrolled Points ownership will not transfer upon resale to a new owner, and all new owners will not be eligible to enroll.

You and I went back and forth in the speculation thread quite a bit about this - I'm not surprised at all that Marriott continued their history of not protecting resale values but I am a little bit surprised that they found a way to impact resale values as much as they have. (I do wonder if it's an attempt to make it easier for them in the future to pick up existing devalued weeks on the resale market through ROFR, to add Points inventory at a favorable cost to them. Probably.)

 

[tombo]

I know the system is new and confusing, but I believe this is a lot of disinformation.

1. Separate ENROLLING from USING points..

No problem in theory, but enrolling is an exense that must be paid.

2. You can join the Marriott exchange company and not USE points..

Then why pay $700 to $2000 to join?

3. You will still have access to flexchange, interval getaways, other resort groups and direct access to II per Dave M's post above..

If that is true you are paying marriott $165 for something you can get from II for $89 plus access to some imaginary points who's value can be changed at any time for any reason. If you no longer have direct access even a worse deal.

4. You will be able to do everything you do today only you will pay your fee to Marriott instead of II, and the fee will be lower if you do anything except reserve your week. This will of course change over time, just as it does now..

The fee is NOT LOWER unless you exchange EVERY year. You save $76 every year that you use your home week if you are in II over Marriott. Every 2 years you have save more than the annual Marriott fee if you use your home resort. In addition the REAL cost of the points Marriott skims from your deposit oftent times will cost more than the II exchange fee and lockoff fee combined, so rather than a savings exchanging using points will likely be an added expense!

5. You NEVER have to use points if you do not want to..

No reason to join and pay $76 more a year then.

6. If you don't join you will pay your current fees and not the new Marriott fee. For most this will be higher. You cannot avoid the trade implications because the trading will be effected regardless of your choice. It is a fee choice. Which option is cheaper for your usage?.

Depends on how often you exchange and whether you can actually still get like for like trades using II, something you can't do with Marriott because they skim your annual points.

7. You do not have to buy any points..

You do if you want to use points to trade for resorts that have the same point value as what you deposit, and you have to buy or borrow more points to trade into your own home resort on any year other than your use year.

8. You give up your voting rights to work against the points system, which is only logical. If you wish your resort to change managment companies then you will cancel your Marriott exchange membership, become a weeks member again, and vote your conscience and try to influence the HOA..

Marriott is telling you up front that you won't like the way the points system is run and you won't vote for what they plan to do with the system, so they are going to vote your vote as they see fit and that is understandable and acceptable to you? Really?

9. If you do not enroll then you will lose the option to trade for exchange points. This can be a critical flaw if the change is successful and the weeks inventory becomes depleted either through people converting or Marriott giving preference to points members..

Yes the threat of your week becoming worthless except to use at your home resort is their sales threat, and a real possibility. They can't sell the points on their own merit, so they resort to fear mongering to make owners convert. Whether it turns out to be true or not, i will not be forced to pay extortion by Marriott. If my week becomes worthless, so be it.

10. The enrollment fee is nominal for developer buyers and reasonable for resale buyers and is currently financially offset by an incentive. It is trading money for services, but Marriott has the services to provide at a lower cost. Similar to trading money for MR points incentive in the past. You have to take more vacation to obtain the benefit which can be a good or bad thing .

$1995 is not reasonable, it is a huge percent of what I paid resale. It also give Marriott my vote,Marriott access to my week, and all I get is some of Jack's Magic beans,oops I meant points with zero real dollar value as my bonus.

11. If Marriott changes things in the future that you do not like you can go back to being a weeks owner any year you choose..

And be out $1995, have the results of anything they got passed using my vote be irrevocable, and not get any refund or compensation from the $1995 I paid for a program they changed AGAIN with no input from owners. No Thanks.

I can see no reason not to enroll unless you are an occupy only owner of a fixed week, a weeks owner who maintains an II account but only does something once every few years and is happy if they can reserve any week in season, a resale owner who does not want to pay $1,995, or if the $700 fee is something you cannot afford.

Much as people wish things would stay the same they will not. The exchange sytem will change independent of your choice. If you don't enroll you will lose the opportunity to take advantage of the opportunities that the new system presents. If you do enroll you will have the same exact opportunities as people who don't enroll, plus further options.

I can see no reason to enroll other than to hope to get better trades than will be given to people who don't convert. You pay more per year to Marriott than to II. You get less points when you deposit your week than they charge you to reserve it or one like it. THE VALUE OF THE POINTS THEY SKIM EVERY TIME YOU DEPOSIT YOUR WEEK CAN EASILY EQUAL $400 ANNUALLY WHICH IS MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE THAN EXCHANGING THROUGH II AND LOCKING OFF YOUR UNIT EACH AND EVERY YEAR. COUNTING THE SKIM EXCHANGING THROUGH MARRIOTT IS MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE THAN EXCHANGING THROUGH II. Marriott takes your vote and vote it in marriott's favor, They basically threaten that if you don't convert that eventually your exchange options will be limit in order to make you convert. They will charge anyone who buys your week resale at least $2000 to keep it in the points program killing your resale value and negating the $1995 spent to make it points in the first place. You will never ever uptrade in points. Your will never be able to trade like for like thanks to the skimming. They can change any parts of the points program or the points values at any time and yet we are supposed to trust them to change it in a manner that is good for owners?

I know you like it, but I still don't see why.

 

[Rush]

Originally posted by Susan - Dan, the way it stands now NO weeks that are sold on the external market and closed after 6/20/10 will be eligible to enroll in the Points program. It doesn't matter if existing Weeks owners now enroll or not - the Enrolled Points ownership will not transfer upon resale to a new owner, and all new owners will not be eligible to enroll.

You and I went back and forth in the speculation thread quite a bit about this - I'm not surprised at all that Marriott continued their history of not protecting resale values but I am a little bit surprised that they found a way to impact resale values as much as they have. (I do wonder if it's an attempt to make it easier for them in the future to pick up existing devalued weeks on the resale market through ROFR, to add Points inventory at a favorable cost to them. Probably.)

Have been in and out of this thread as much as possible, Susan, but obviously need to spend more time on it.

However, am I understanding correctly from your above statement which reads "...all new owners [of a resale week] will not be eligible to enroll [in the points program]" that if I choose / manage to resell my weeks, the new owner would be precluded from enrolling in the points program?

Or am I missing something...

 

[wuv pooh]

I know you like it, but I still don't see why.

See below:
Enrollment fee $700 -
Value of 800 points $400 - Make up your own number
Net Cost to enroll - $300
Probability of hating new system - 50% - Make up your own number
Expected cost to join - $150
Expected savings in one year with 1 lock off and 2 Marriott II trades - $217 -insert your own number
Net Cost of joining for one year - -$67


It is ALWAYS cheaper for me since I lockoff one week and exchange.

For you worst case:

Enrollment fee $1,995 -
Value of 800 points $0 - They are a fraud
Net Cost to enroll - $1,995
Probability of hating new system - 100%
Expected cost to join - $1,995
Expected loss in one year for usage - $165
Net Cost of joining for one year - $2,160


I said if you are resale buyer then you have a choice to make. I guess you will choose no. Or you could say I saved $10,000 on my week, so that is not bad to stay with the program.

BTW there are many more like me than like you, so if you are worried about keeping access to the future exchange system you should apply some value to that in your analysis. YMMV.

 

[SueDonJ]

... Marriott has not offered me ANYTHING, all I am looking for at the moment is an explanation. Seems Tuggers have already a pre-determined outcome. I do not. Now I am done because I really was trying to see if this is happening to others and all it is giving me is a headache trying to defend myself when I HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG.

Slakk, I apologize for the insult you're feeling. The reason I questioned why you wouldn't simply accept Marriott's computer glitches and subsequent corrections, is because you said that you would "look into appropriate recourses" if they tried to correct the mistaken amount first given to you that you questioned yourself.

If your intention is to accept whatever correct points value is actually due you (and every other owner of an interval the same as yours) then I don't have any questions.

 

[tombo]

[QUOTE Susan]Dan, the way it stands now NO weeks that are sold on the external market and closed after 6/20/10 will be eligible to enroll in the Points program. It doesn't matter if existing Weeks owners now enroll or not - the Enrolled Points ownership will not transfer upon resale to a new owner, and all new owners will not be eligible to enroll.

You and I went back and forth in the speculation thread quite a bit about this - I'm not surprised at all that Marriott continued their history of not protecting resale values but I am a little bit surprised that they found a way to impact resale values as much as they have. (I do wonder if it's an attempt to make it easier for them in the future to pick up existing devalued weeks on the resale market through ROFR, to add Points inventory at a favorable cost to them. Probably.)

Have been in and out of this thread as much as possible, Susan, but obviously need to spend more time on it.

However, am I understanding correctly from your above statement which reads "...all new owners [of a resale week] will not be eligible to enroll [in the points program]" that if I choose / manage to resell my weeks, the new owner would be precluded from enrolling in the points program?

If so, Wow! [/QUOTE]

Marriott has been hard at work figuring out a way to kill the resale value of the weeks they sold in the past. That profit has been made and spent, now the only important customers are those who convert to points and buy points. I feel sure that the Marriott marketing department researched and polled a lot of current owners and finally concluded that the best way for them to show their customer's how much they appreciate them is by killing the value of what Marriott sold them. Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside doesn't it?

 

[Dave M]

I am not so concerned about the so-called skimming as many are. I think it will actually be a benefit for many of us.

One major concern is whether we will still be able to book prime weeks at our home resort or will points users be trumping our attempts to reserve those prime weeks. Taking only those current owners who enroll, I don't think that's a major problem. Because of the skimming differential for current owners, many of us are very likely to try to use the existing exchange program (weeks for weeks) to get into another resort and even upgrade where possible, just as we do now. Using points to exchange doesn’t seem to make much sense (because of the skimming) unless we eventually find that II Marriott inventory is almost nonexistent due to the possibility that points exchangers might have preference over weeks exchangers versus “comparable exchange” methodology.

I’m not concerned much that comparable week owners at other resorts will nab the week I want to reserve because of the skimming factor. They won’t have enough points. Upgrading or getting a comparable exchange using points is virtually impossible to do, unless an owner buys more points or uses points from multiple resorts or multiple years to try to get the weeks I want at my home resorts. And because of the skimming factor, a current owner would have to trade down to get a prime week at another resort using points. How many will want to regularly trade down?

Thus, I believe it will still be just about as easy for me to book a premium week at my resorts as it is now. I won't have much competition from points users.

However, in the long run, as Marriott sells blocks of points to new purchasers, that may change. But it will cost those points purchasers an arm and a leg to get enough points to be in a position to compete with my call for the prime weeks I want to reserve at 12 or 13 months in advance.

 

[Numismatist]

I just got an email inviting me to join...anyone else?

Introducing the next evolution in vacationing - Marriott Vacation Club Destinations TM Exchange Program - a new usage option that is a flexible, easy-to-use, and points-based approach to vacationing.

And because it is an option, once you enroll, each year you can choose to use your ownership as you have in the past or elect to receive Vacation Club Points.

Enroll in the Exchange Program and Enjoy These New Benefits:

•Enhanced flexibility at Marriott Vacation Club resorts - check in any day of the week, during any season, in any accommodation size, for as long as you want.*

•More vacation choices like access to the Explorer Collection for adventure travel, cruises, safaris & guided tours to global landmarks, and urban hotel experience packages.**
•A simplified fee structure, so you don't have to pay separate fees such as Interval International membership or for exchanges to other Marriott Vacation Club resorts.***
Special Introductory Enrollment Offer

Enroll for a one-time, low introductory enrollment fee of $595 and if you enroll by December 31, 2010, you will receive a bonus of 800 Vacation Club PlusPoints - good for two to five additional nights at any Marriott Vacation Club resort depending on the resort, room type and season.

Learn More During Your Upcoming Stay

You are encouraged to meet with a Sales Executive during your upcoming stay. You will be contacted prior to your arrival to schedule a time that works for you.

You can also call to speak with a Sales Executive, 1-800-845-4226 to speak with Owner Services, or visit My-VacationClub.com for more details or to enroll online.

Sincerely,

Lee Cunningham
Chief Operating Officer
Marriott Timeshare, North America & Caribbean






*Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program's ability to confirm a specific exchange request is dependent upon the timeshare interests and use periods available or as provided by the provider of accommodations or services. Therefore, Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program cannot guarantee specific resort choices, dates of travel, or types or sizes of accommodations. The earlier an exchange is requested, the better the possibility that a specific request may be confirmed.

**Access to the Explorer Collection is made available through the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program and is subject to the terms and conditions as outlined in the applicable Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program documents. Actual experiences will be provided via contractual arrangements with third party providers and may require the payment of additional fees. The experiences described herein are examples of potential vacation opportunities and are subject to change. Marriott International, Inc., its affiliates, and subsidiaries, makes no warranty, express or implied, as to the condition, capacity, performance or any other aspect of the activities, events, or service providers listed herein. No inquiry has been made into the activities or events, or the qualifications or the quality of services offered by the providers. Do not consider this an endorsement of or recommendation for any of the activities, events, or providers.

***Enrolled Owners will still be required to pay the annual maintenance fees due and owing each year to their resort's owners association.

Details of Participation

SPONSOR: Marriott Vacation Club International

ELIGIBILITY: The offer of 800 Vacation Club PlusPoints is for existing Marriott Vacation Club Owners who own a deeded Marriott Vacation Club timeshare weeks in the United States or Caribbean, which was purchased no later than June 19, 2010.

OFFER: Purchaser must enroll into the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program no later than December 31,2010, in order to receive the Vacation Club PlusPoints offer. The 800 Vacation Club PlusPoints will be posted to the appropriate account seven (7) days following the completion of the enrollment transaction. Vacation Club PlusPoints expire December 31, 2011. Offer subject to change without notice. Offer not valid in conjunction with any other promotional offer. Offer is nontransferable.

This is neither an offer to sell nor a solicitation to buy to residents in jurisdictions in which registration requirements have not been fulfilled, and your eligibility and the resorts available for purchase will depend upon the state of residency of the purchaser.

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[SueDonJ]

Have been in and out of this thread as much as possible, Susan, but obviously need to spend more time on it.

However, am I understanding correctly from your above statement which reads "...all new owners [of a resale week] will not be eligible to enroll [in the points program]" that if I choose / manage to resell my weeks, the new owner would be precluded from enrolling in the points program?

Or am I missing something...

Yes, that's my understanding. The Enrolled Points membership is an addendum to a deeded week contract that will not transfer upon resale, and this is from the FAQ for the Enrolled Points option (bolding mine):

I originally purchased my Marriott Vacation Club week(s) as an external sale through the secondary market. Would the benefits of enrolling be different for me?
If your external purchase closed prior to June 20, 2010, it is eligible to be enrolled with the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program. The enrollment fee for one externally purchased week will initially be $1,495, and enrolling multiple externally purchased weeks will initially total $1,995. This offer is expected to be available only through December 31, 2010. Once you enroll your week(s), you will gain the annual option to elect Vacation Club Points, and you may also add the option of trading your week(s) for Marriott Rewards points if the week(s) you purchased externally are eligible for Marriott Rewards trade. You also will gain the benefit and convenience of the annual single-use fee (Club Dues).