Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

[Slakk]

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[irish]

OMG !! i am soooooo confused by this whole fiasco. maybe PERRY M can help me to understand a little better on his webinair thursday..
as i see it now, marriott has simply come up with another way to MILK us for more $$$ and screw loyal owners.
when i first purchased my week, i could use the reward points to get a week in a very nice MARRIOTT hotel. now, 10 years later they have elevated the points required for this same stay to a point where i may only get a5 day stay. my actual unit points are exactly the same. no increase there! so you KNOW,going forwardt, this is going to occur with their NEW AND IMPROVED POINTS program.just another way to get more $$$ from us.
another thing, i purchased a SEASON. i was not given the opportunity to pick a specific week. i paid the same amount at the time of purchase as everyone else purchasing in that season. my m/fs are exactly the same 'LIKE TO LIKE." now i find out that my week is given a lesser POINTS VALUE then someone else owning in THE SAME SEASON but my m/f's are still the same as someone with a HIGHER POINTS value. i ask you WHERE IS THE EQUITY? THIS IS JUST PLAIN AND SIMPLY BAD.
everyone is calling their VACATION SPECIALIST and taking them at their word. what happened to the the portent "IF THE SALESMANS LIPS ARE MOVING HE'S LYING" now, more then ever before, this should come to mind!
i SERIOUSLY don't think i am going to take part in this new program and give them the opportunity to screw me yet again. FOOL ME ONCE SHAME ON YOU.FOOL ME TWICE SHAME ON ME!!

 

[Slakk]

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[wuv pooh]

People talk of "test driving" the new system saying, what do they have to lose? They can decide to use home resort or trade for points but they have just locked in another annual fee just like the MF.

My question is about the club fee of $168. That seems to be an annual fee whether you trade for points or just go to your home resort - and since it is an annual fee there is no end in sight. What if it was not paid for a year, could they file a lien? Why would we want to pay an annual fee forever just in case we wanted to trade for point.

Right now, we get all the MR points we need through the use of our CC.

What am I missing?

What you are missing is that most people have an II account. If you occupy only and never trade then the fee is a straight add.

However, if you do anything else with your week then it is better to join the new club.

Having an II account to do exchanges costs $89

Trading for points costs $109 - you are over the fee.

Locking off costs $75 - you are at the fee.

Trading your week for a Marriott costs $109 - you are over the fee

Trading both halves of your lockoff costs another $218 - you are way over the fee.

Trading is exactly the same under either option if you do not use the new points currency. You will be competing with other weeks owners, only your fees will be cheaper in the Marriott system.

The only thing not clear to me is if you enroll you may lose direct access to the II website. Many people would rather pay higher fees to have this direct access.

 

[tombo]

I wish everyone would stop jumping to conclusions, Marriott is not treating me special. No secret handshake, nothing.

So Marriott is not treating you special and some here feel that they are? I believe you. I would on the other hand have a very hard time believing you if you said that Marriott was treating you "special".

Marriott doesn't care at all about how they treat customers unless it will cost them sales or cause them publicity problems. If you were about to buy $30,000 or $40,000 worth of points then they would rectify the problem and treat you special. If you owned a travel agency, if you were a reporter, or if you were an elected political official, then you would get treated special. If you are simply a customer who owns some weeks purchased resale or retail, then Marriott does not treat you special.

 

[ArtsieAng]

What you are missing is that most people have an II account. If you occupy only and never trade then the fee is a straight add.

However, if you do anything else with your week then it is better to join the new club.

Having an II account to do exchanges costs $89

Trading for points costs $109 - you are over the fee.

Locking off costs $75 - you are at the fee.

Trading your week for a Marriott costs $109 - you are over the fee

Trading both halves of your lockoff costs another $218 - you are way over the fee.

Trading is exactly the same under either option if you do not use the new points currency. You will be competing with other weeks owners, only your fees will be cheaper in the Marriott system.

The only thing not clear to me is if you enroll you may lose direct access to the II website. Many people would rather pay higher fees to have this direct access.

This is still in question since there seems to be conflicting info being giving out, at the moment........If it turns out to be true, this would be huge, IMO.

It's not just flexchanges that you'd be giving up. I've gotten great trades into The Four Seasons, Hyatt's and the like, at 6-10 months out. It would be a shame to have to give those up.

 

[wuv pooh]

another thing, i purchased a SEASON. i was not given the opportunity to pick a specific week. i paid the same amount at the time of purchase as everyone else purchasing in that season. my m/fs are exactly the same 'LIKE TO LIKE." now i find out that my week is given a lesser POINTS VALUE then someone else owning in THE SAME SEASON but my m/f's are still the same as someone with a HIGHER POINTS value. i ask you WHERE IS THE EQUITY? THIS IS JUST PLAIN AND SIMPLY BAD.

This is not true. Every person in each season/view is offered the same exact points. What has changed is the points required to exchange back into that week if you exchanged vs. reserved is now higher. In the old system, if you lost the lottery, and needed and exact week you could deposit in II pay a fee and trade back into that week. Under the new system you will not have the required points to do that is most cases. You would need to borrow points or stay one less day or change seasons. For exchaning into other resorts the points charts now represent the demand that Marriott sees for those resorts, so there is really no complaint except that now you can't trade your $8,000 Manor Club Week for a $50,000 Maui week by getting lucky through II. You have to pay to upgrade to the better week.

 

[radmoo]

What you are missing is that most people have an II account. If you occupy only and never trade then the fee is a straight add.

However, if you do anything else with your week then it is better to join the new club.

Having an II account to do exchanges costs $89

Trading for points costs $109 - you are over the fee.

Locking off costs $75 - you are at the fee.


Trading your week for a Marriott costs $109 - you are over the fee

Trading both halves of your lockoff costs another $218 - you are way over the fee.

Trading is exactly the same under either option if you do not use the new points currency. You will be competing with other weeks owners, only your fees will be cheaper in the Marriott system.

The only thing not clear to me is if you enroll you may lose direct access to the II website. Many people would rather pay higher fees to have this direct access.

all of the above is correct but you also need to add in the UPFRONT joining fee!!

 

[Dave M]

The only thing not clear to me is if you enroll you may lose direct access to the II website. Many people would rather pay higher fees to have this direct access.

According to this link (log-in required), you do not lose direct access to II if you enroll and then decide to deposit your week as in the past. The link explains exchanges for those who enroll but choose to reserve their own week and use it for exchanging. One quote:

Place your request with Interval International. Visit IntervalWorld.com for contact information or to place your request online.

The language at that link is similar to - but not identical to - the comparable link for weeks owners (those who don't enroll in the new program).

 

[floyddl]

If you do not spend the $700 you will potentially seriously impair the functioning of your timeshare in the future.

This statement is exactly why people are upset. If true then Marriott has screwed all it's loyal owners.

 

[tombo]

What you are missing is that most people have an II account. If you occupy only and never trade then the fee is a straight add.

However, if you do anything else with your week then it is better to join the new club.

Having an II account to do exchanges costs $89

Trading for points costs $109 - you are over the fee.

Locking off costs $75 - you are at the fee.

Trading your week for a Marriott costs $109 - you are over the fee

Trading both halves of your lockoff costs another $218 - you are way over the fee.

Trading is exactly the same under either option if you do not use the new points currency. You will be competing with other weeks owners, only your fees will be cheaper in the Marriott system.

The only thing not clear to me is if you enroll you may lose direct access to the II website. Many people would rather pay higher fees to have this direct access.

For $89 to II a year you have access to flexchanges not available from Marriott, you can still use your home resort every year and pay a total of $89, and you will save about $75 a year. You will have to pay Marriott the fee ($165 until they increase it) each and every year whether you swap to points or not. If you use your home resort for 4 years you are about $380 ahead in savings and you had access to last minute rentals/getaways you wouldn't get converting to Marriott if you do lose direct access to the II website. If you exchange through II you can go to places Marriott has no resorts. You will save $600 to $1995 in conversion fees. You won't have to spend $9200 to buy points so you can afford to stay in your home resort if you need to bank your week or points until the following year to get 2 weeks. You will save the $9200 expense and be able to trade your Marriott week for like for like trades through II. You will save $400 a year in additional annual MF's on the points you have to buy in order to be able to trade like for like units thanks to Marriott's skimming. You will still have your VOTE if you don't convert! Your week will not become marriott's to do what they want with if you don't convert.

Summary comparing Marriott to II over 5 years if you use your home resort 4 out of 5 years.

II $89 annual
Access to Flexchanges
Access to worldwide inventory at 1000's of resorts
Exchange once in 5 years pay $149 exchange fee
Ability to request before exchange to see availability
Ability to trade like for like and to trade up
Access to getaways/last minute rentals
Ability to decide last minute to deposit your week for exchange

II 5 times $89 =$445 plus $149 for exchange for a total of $594

Marriott Points

$599 conversion fee (up to $1999)
Marriott $165 every year
No Flexchanges or discounted last minute inventory
No request first. From my understanding your week must be put into points long before the dates you can see what inventory is available to reserve
You must decide far in advance (13 months I think) whether you want points or use of your home week. Can't decide to exchange using points last minute like with II.
No access to cheap getaways
No ability to exchange for any resort other than Marriott
No ability to trade like for like weeks, and no chance to upgrade
Possible nightly or shorter than 7 day stays based on AVAILABILITY (prime weeks doubtful)

$165 times 5 years = $825 (II savings of $380) plus $599 conversion fee (minimum)= $1424

$1424 minus $594= $830 in II savings

add to that the $9200 you need to spend to buy points so you can stay in like for like trades and $400 every year in additiona MF's for the additional points $400 times 4=$1600 plus $9200= $10800

$1424 plus $10,800= $15,224.


$15,224 Marriott minus $594 II= $14,630 in II savings over 5 years if you exchange one time, and that doesn't include the fees/theft of 7% to 10% of your points that Marriott skims from your account every time you deposit your week!

Spending that kind of money on a new program that mght not work well for points members or even be in existence in 5 years is a huge risk. I'll stick with my home resort deeded week, the ability to vote, access to flexchanges, access to last minute getaways,access to non Marriott resorts/locations, and use II to exchange (or some other exchange company) whenever I decide to trade my week.

 

[dougef]

Questions regarding geographic restrictions on trading:

1 - I own at Ocean Pointe and am currently restricted from trading into Oceana Palms. Under the Points system, can I now use my Ocean Pointe points (plus the extra 800 pts for sign up) and stay at Oceana Palms?

2 - If the answer to no. 1 is yes, if I already reserved a week at Ocean Pointe for 2011, and I sign up for the new program, can I cancel the reserved week and change to a week at Oceana Palms instead.

Thanks.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Questions regarding geographic restrictions on trading:

1 - I own at Ocean Pointe and am currently restricted from trading into Oceana Palms. Under the Points system, can I now use my Ocean Pointe points (plus the extra 800 pts for sign up) and stay at Oceana Palms?

2 - If the answer to no. 1 is yes, if I already reserved a week at Ocean Pointe for 2011, and I sign up for the new program, can I cancel the reserved week and change to a week at Oceana Palms instead.

Thanks.

There should be NO REGIONAL TRADING restrictions using points so you should be able to do your points into Oceana Palms.

However, keep in mind that if you use the Florida Club then you still can trade into Oceana Palms via Interval International. The key is that you have to reserve your week at one of the other four club members then deposit that week into Interval International and request your Oceana Palms week. Been there, done that three months ago myself.

 

[timeos2]

Marriott now gets the trade ups owners used to be able to snag

EDIT - Okay, wait a minute... I don't see anything wrong with that part of the rules. Marriott will attempt Request First exchanges on behalf of Point members? I don't have any problem with that - as long as they are going to deposit a decent week in exchange, and as long as my Deposit First request is handled ahead of them. If they are given priority over us because they are Marriott, then I have a problem.

Is this the only basis for the idea that Marriott can snatch II inventory? If so, it seems pretty flimsy (and takes the wind out of my problem with the system)

This is a major problem I have had with II forever. They DO give preference to groups - especially favored developer groups and Marriott is at or near the very top of that list - over the general paying membership. I cannot believe they do that and that the members willingly continue to pay and accept it.

So there is every reason to believe that a request from Marriott to reserve a week - regardless of the source of that deposit - will be given total priority over any other. They don't care about deposit first members (place & hope) as they already HAVE the time from them and merely have to string them along until they take any old week that comes along rather than lose their deposit. The request first from Marriott must be satisfied or they don't get the time from them. Easy choice. Take the request first, push off the place & hope - deal done. And it will be repeated over and over as the place and hope has no leverage whatsoever while each request first must be granted or they lose the potential deposit from a highly desired source.

As for what they deposit all Marriott has to do is follow the pre-agreed upon points values and dump a bunch of low value times that add up to the right amount. Again, why would they give up anything better? Give the least for the most has to be the plan and for them it's a great one. Like any owner they look to maximize the spread to their advantage and in this case II helps them do just that.

Far too easy to see who is going to be the loser. It isn't Marriott.

 

[dougef]

There should be NO REGIONAL TRADING restrictions using points so you should be able to do your points into Oceana Palms.

However, keep in mind that if you use the Florida Club then you still can trade into Oceana Palms via Interval International. The key is that you have to reserve your week at one of the other four club members then deposit that week into Interval International and request your Oceana Palms week. Been there, done that three months ago myself.

The problem with Florida Club is if you want a prime week - say in April, your chances of finding anything available at the six month mark are very slim.

 

[csalter2]

Unnecessary Mass Hysteria

I have read this everchanging link since its inception when folks started being concerned about Marriott's new ponts program. What I have noticed is a hysteria first about what it may or could be and now it's hysteria of what one thinks it truly is. People are now believing Marriott is out to get them and they are screwing with their customers.

In my opinion, those who bought resale have had it so good for so long and those who bought developer in low seasons have been so fortunate for so long to trade into resorts that maybe they should never have been eligible for, are now upset because it has caught up with them. It is as if a loophole has been closed in the law that now stops people from claiming deductions that they really should not have been able to deduct anyway.

We can do all the same things with our own resort. We don't have to have points to stay in our resort. We can still go to II if we want to. The problem is you want Marriott and now it's as accessible as a Westin in Maui. Your one bedroom silver week should concern you with lower value which is what I recall the salesman telling me when trying to get me to buy platinum.

Folks, this is change. You will have to deal with it. All of the misinformation that runs across this thread will not help new people. Most of the complaints that people have are unfounded and people dream them up.

I know I can stay in my resort. I have always planned in advance so I will know a year in advance if I want to stay at my nome resort and I will do as I have always done in the past. If I choose to do otherwise, there's interval international.

I believe those who bought resale should be happy they only have to pay a smaill fee to now come into the fold if they want. Remember you bought for far less than those who bought at developer prices. You still have a deal as you get to come in and now have those MRP's that you felt you did not need. Your resale weeks are now legit if you join.

People you still have what you paid for, but now that you are getting exactly that, you don't like it. Remember on TUGG mantra, buy where you want to stay. You should not have a problem if you follow that.

This mass hysteria is just killing me.

 

[jjluhman]

There should be NO REGIONAL TRADING restrictions using points so you should be able to do your points into Oceana Palms.

However, keep in mind that if you use the Florida Club then you still can trade into Oceana Palms via Interval International. The key is that you have to reserve your week at one of the other four club members then deposit that week into Interval International and request your Oceana Palms week. Been there, done that three months ago myself.

As if I did not already find a list of reasons that my TUG membership money was well spent, this tip alone made it worth it. Why didn't I think of this?

Thanks!

 

[pacheco18]

It is as if a loophole has been closed in the law that now stops people from claiming deductions that they really should not have been able to deduct anyway. .

Carlito - you are so wrong.

These are not loopholes. The whole Flexchange opportunity was part of the program and touted by Marriott salespeople. In fact, I cannot tell you the number of times a salesman suggested I buy a crappy week with low MFs solely for the purpose of trading during Flexchange.

 

[DanCali]

Most people could care less about resale value. They don't plan to sell. They may need to sell at some point, but they do not forsee it. Similar to a car people do not skip a $500 repair, but spend it to keep the functionalilty of the car. If you do not spend the $700 you will potentially seriously impair the functioning of your timeshare in the future. If you spent $1,000 on a resale you might not care, if you spent $100k you will care and the salesman will easily put a doubt in your mind and slip you the low pain solution 'try it out' you have nothing to lose.

This statement is exactly why people are upset. If true then Marriott has screwed all it's loyal owners.

Well, this and the implied statement "since you don't care about resale value, we'll charge the person you sell to $1500 to so they can you the timeshare like you did. Sure, it will lower resale value, but you don't care anyway."

 

[wuv pooh]

For $89 to II a year you have access to flexchanges not available from Marriott, you can still use your home resort every year and pay a total of $89, and you will save about $75 a year. You will have to pay Marriott the fee ($165 until they increase it) each and every year whether you swap to points or not. If you use your home resort for 4 years you are about $380 ahead in savings and you had access to last minute rentals/getaways you wouldn't get converting to Marriott if you do lose direct access to the II website. If you exchange through II you can go to places Marriott has no resorts. You will save $600 to $1995 in conversion fees. You won't have to spend $9200 to buy points so you can afford to stay in your home resort if you need to bank your week or points until the following year to get 2 weeks. You will save the $9200 expense and be able to trade your Marriott week for like for like trades through II. You will save $400 a year in additional annual MF's on the points you have to buy in order to be able to trade like for like units thanks to Marriott's skimming. You will still have your VOTE if you don't convert! Your week will not become marriott's to do what they want with if you don't convert.

Summary comparing Marriott to II over 5 years if you use your home resort 4 out of 5 years.

II $89 annual
Access to Flexchanges
Access to worldwide inventory at 1000's of resorts
Exchange once in 5 years pay $149 exchange fee
Ability to request before exchange to see availability
Ability to trade like for like and to trade up
Access to getaways/last minute rentals
Ability to decide last minute to deposit your week for exchange

II 5 times $89 =$445 plus $149 for exchange for a total of $594

Marriott Points

$599 conversion fee (up to $1999)
Marriott $165 every year
No Flexchanges or discounted last minute inventory
No request first. From my understanding your week must be put into points long before the dates you can see what inventory is available to reserve
You must decide far in advance (13 months I think) whether you want points or use of your home week. Can't decide to exchange using points last minute like with II.
No access to cheap getaways
No ability to exchange for any resort other than Marriott
No ability to trade like for like weeks, and no chance to upgrade
Possible nightly or shorter than 7 day stays based on AVAILABILITY (prime weeks doubtful)

$165 times 5 years = $825 (II savings of $380) plus $599 conversion fee (minimum)= $1424

$1424 minus $594= $830 in II savings

add to that the $9200 you need to spend to buy points so you can stay in like for like trades and $400 every year in additiona MF's for the additional points $400 times 4=$1600 plus $9200= $10800

$1424 plus $10,800= $15,224.


$15,224 minus $594= $14,630 in II savings over 5 years.
Spending that kind of money on a new program that mght not work well for points members or even be in existence in 5 years is a huge risk. I'll stick with my home resort deeded week, the ability to vote, access to flexchanges, access to last minute getaways,access to non Marriott resorts/locations, and use II to exchange (or some other exchange company) whenever I decide to trade my week.

I know the system is new and confusing, but I believe this is a lot of disinformation.

1. Separate ENROLLING from USING points.
2. You can join the Marriott exchange company and not USE points.
3. You will still have access to flexchange, interval getaways, other resort groups and direct access to II per Dave M's post above.
4. You will be able to do everything you do today only you will pay your fee to Marriott instead of II, and the fee will be lower if you do anything except reserve your week. This will of course change over time, just as it does now.
5. You NEVER have to use points if you do not want to.
6. If you don't join you will pay your current fees and not the new Marriott fee. For most this will be higher. You cannot avoid the trade implications because the trading will be effected regardless of your choice. It is a fee choice. Which option is cheaper for your usage?
7. You do not have to buy any points.
8. You give up your voting rights to work against the points system, which is only logical. If you wish your resort to change managment companies then you will cancel your Marriott exchange membership, become a weeks member again, and vote your conscience and try to influence the HOA.
9. If you do not enroll then you will lose the option to trade for exchange points. This can be a critical flaw if the change is successful and the weeks inventory becomes depleted either through people converting or Marriott giving preference to points members.
10. The enrollment fee is nominal for developer buyers and reasonable for resale buyers and is currently financially offset by an incentive. It is trading money for services, but Marriott has the services to provide at a lower cost. Similar to trading money for MR points incentive in the past. You have to take more vacation to obtain the benefit which can be a good or bad thing
11. If Marriott changes things in the future that you do not like you can go back to being a weeks owner any year you choose.

I can see no reason not to enroll unless you are an occupy only owner of a fixed week, a weeks owner who maintains an II account but only does something once every few years and is happy if they can reserve any week in season, a resale owner who does not want to pay $1,995, or if the $700 fee is something you cannot afford.

Much as people wish things would stay the same they will not. The exchange sytem will change independent of your choice. If you don't enroll you will lose the opportunity to take advantage of the opportunities that the new system presents. If you do enroll you will have the same exact opportunities as people who don't enroll, plus further options.

 

[DanCali]

I11. If Marriott changes things in the future that you do not like you can go back to being a weeks owner any year you choose.

And if things change unilaterally by marriott and the program is not the same as the one I enrolled into, I can get a refund for the enrollment fee if I go back to weeks?

 

[wuv pooh]

And if things change unilaterally by marriott and the program is not the same as the one I enrolled into, I can get a refund for the enrollment fee if I go back to weeks?

No, you will have to be happy with the incentive you were given to join. If you feel that is a significant risk then you should not join. I would evaluate it as a cost x probability

Enrollment fee $700
Value of 800 points $400 - Make up your own number
Net Cost to enroll - $300
Probability of hating new system - 50% - Make up your own number
Expected cost to join - $150
Expected savings in one year with 1 lock off and 2 Marriott II trades - $217
Net Cost of joining for one year - -$67

I will join based on the analysis. YMMV

 

[DanCali]

No, you will have to be happy with the incentive you were given to join. If you feel that is a significant risk then you should not join. I would evaluate it as a cost x probability

Enrollment fee $700
Value of 800 points $400 - Make up your own number
Net Cost to enroll - $300
Probability of hating new system - 50% - Make up your own number
Expected cost to join - $150
Expected savings in one year with 1 lock off and 2 Marriott II trades - $217
Net Cost of joining for one year - -$67

I will join based on the analysis. YMMV

What about the 7% skimming? Given where you are on this argument, its convenient to exclude, but isn't that a real cost? And if you stay longet than one year, it's an annual cost.

If you get skimmed 800 points, that's another $400.

 

[pspercy]

We could bank our 2010 points into 2011 and go then!

I like that too.

I wonder what the "points for cruise" option will look like. At present my week isn't worth much more than maint fee if going for a cruise via II.

 

[irish]

WUVPO, now SOMEWHERE in these pages of posts, i THINK i read the breakdown of points being offered to either CYPRESS HARBOR or ARUBA OCEAN CLUB owners..i own SPECIAL SEASON@CYPRESS and GOLD SEASON@ARUBA. it seemed to me that the points offered as to the week owned on your deed were varying. maybe i was having a nightmare after trying to digest all the information being offered. can any one speak to this point difference as to week on deed?