Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

[wsrobinson]

I don't blame you one bit. It is troubling though that MVCI will authorize an override of the stated program values for a particular owner. It might have been more appropriate if they offered some form of compensation for the mistake that didn't involve an exception on the point values. If they do it here one can only wonder how many others exist.

Exactly my point. Not really fair to the rest if us (and I could have done it too!)

 

[SueDonJ]

I liked mine too!!! Heck I was ecstatic but I had an idea mine was wrong because Sue said her point value at the same resort with the same view (but 3 bedroom) had the same point value as mine. I could call them up and raise a fuss that I "deserve" the higher value but its WRONG. They made a simple mistake (one they rectified since).

A more apt example in this case, a car dealer lists the BMW for 59999 but is printed as 599.99. I guess you show up making a stink demanding the car for that???

I'd like it, too, if you did that because then I could call them and be a screaming banshee demanding more than you! And everybody else who owns a 3BR at SW could call up after me demanding more! Can't you hear it, every succeeding call getting louder and louder and pretty soon Marriott has no more points for anyone all because you raised a ruckus!

Slakk, I'm not making light of your situation. I told you in another post that I'd hate to be in your shoes and can understand your frustration. But you never answered my question - if Marriott had given you first LESS points than were supposed to be allotted to you because of a computer glitch, would you expect them to honor the incorrect amount or make the correction?

 

[jjluhman]

Ok, I am trying to read through the legal documentation on the MVCI website. I am not a lawyer and I am confused!

Can anyone explain this paragraph to me??? Are they saying that they can allow other TS Programs (DVC etc)book our resorts through their program if they decide to do so? I hope that I am understanding this incorrectly.

J.
Affiliate Program Reservation System Operations. Exchange Company will, from time to time, operate and manage reservation systems or exchange programs for other vacation ownership programs and facilitate usage by members of such programs, in addition to operation of the exchange facilities and related services in the Program. When providing reservation services for another program, which is also an Affiliate Program, Exchange Company shall provide the reservation services and exchange services in a manner consistent with the applicable Affiliation Agreement and the applicable Affiliate Program Reservation Procedures. The Affiliate Program Reservation Systems may vary and have priority windows or reservation restrictions that are different from those of the Program or other Affiliate Programs. In such cases, Exchange

 

[dioxide45]

Ok, I am trying to read through the legal documentation on the MVCI website. I am not a lawyer and I am confused!

Can anyone explain this paragraph to me??? Are they saying that they can allow other TS Programs (DVC etc)book our resorts through their program if they decide to do so? I hope that I am understanding this incorrectly.

J.
Affiliate Program Reservation System Operations. Exchange Company will, from time to time, operate and manage reservation systems or exchange programs for other vacation ownership programs and facilitate usage by members of such programs, in addition to operation of the exchange facilities and related services in the Program. When providing reservation services for another program, which is also an Affiliate Program, Exchange Company shall provide the reservation services and exchange services in a manner consistent with the applicable Affiliation Agreement and the applicable Affiliate Program Reservation Procedures. The Affiliate Program Reservation Systems may vary and have priority windows or reservation restrictions that are different from those of the Program or other Affiliate Programs. In such cases, Exchange

I think the Affiliate Program is the new trust.

 

[Asia2000]

There is too much conflicting information. It would be great if a Marriott representative would answer some questions on this board like we once had with Interval and RCI.

Anyone have any connections to try to line this up?

It is called smoke and mirrors. The details are either not available or are vaguely written in the fine print. Even the lawyers on TUG are having difficulty interpreting it. In the end, it is the sales rep that puts you on hold to get the answer which is the reason behind conflicting information. Besides, being uninformed requires you to call Marriott one more time, which allows them to sell you one more time on the program. It is a classic sales tactic.

If you have until the end of the year to make a move, take your time. My suggestion is to wait and let all of the details surface, in print, and then you can make your decision on logic. Not on hype or fear or the idea that spending more money will give you more. Marriott wants people to "give up" by joining, thereby releasing the owner's unit to inventory and the owner thereby being involved in mediocre program which will require more future spending with a higher MF. Yes, you might save a couple of hundos on II fees, but what are you giving up to get that savings?

Best of luck.

 

[wuv pooh]

Remember who the customer is

I think what most people forget is that most Marriott customers are not Tuggers. There are 400,000 plus Marriott owners and only 43,000 tuggers. In fact most tuggers think that Marriott owners are crazy and spend way too much for the Marriott 'experience' Maybe a few hundred active here and this is peak usage and maybe 10x that as casual users.

Before people crucify the Marriott marketing team, try to think about their true customers:

1. They are older and probably less tech savvy. Don't like spending hours searching II inventory on line. Don't care about 1,000 post Tug threads.

2. They bought Marriott instead of a second house and may have 50-100k invested in the system.

3. They hate II because of #1 and because they don't like giving up something to potentially get something. If they trade they give up their view they paid a premium for. They pay a lot of fees, etc. They allow Marriott to pick the week to deposit because the trust them and II does not give them the value. They would rather talk to a counselor and have a relationship.

4. They are successful and busy. Sometimes it is hard to get away for a full seven days. They will never run a rental business and don't troll red week/craigs list to get "deals" $1,000 is a nit to them.

5. They are the people who are screwed on the other side of the trade that Tuggers enjoy. They give their Hawaii week to their son who trades it to Orlando They deposit Grande Ocean for points because they can't get away for a full week

6. They use Marriott hotels and actually often trade for MR points because it allows them to vacation in short intervals like they are able. Most Tuggers think this is stupid.

7. They like Marriott and trust them. Most Tuggers also think this is stupid.

For these people a 7% skim is meaningless vs. actually getting to use their investment in a more efficient manner. They can now:

1. Use partial weeks
2. Trade some of their week for nights and other for MR points
3. Trade down and still have points left over to convert to MR points
4. Trade for the view that they want
5. Not have to deal with II or computers, but have a trusted person to call
6. Only pay one fee vs. getting nickeled and dimed
7. They now see that their resorts truly are worth more, and don't get the dregs left over from II.

These are the people Marriott wants to make happy and who they have responded to, not Tuggers. Most don't have a clue about the points system and will see it as a big improvement. When they get the email they will call and convert.

And it was actually pretty slick. You can enroll and as a bonus you get 800 points. However, 800 points is not enough to go anywhere so why not convert your weeks and see how it works. If you don't like it you can always keep things the way they are. Most people will 'invest' $700 to protect a $100k investment.

There is plenty of inventory in Oceana Palms, Marco Island, Hawaii, Lakeshore Reserve with the Ritz, etc. Lots of high class resorts and nice opportunities for short get aways if you have the points and means. Lots of new cruises, experiences, etc.

When these people convert to 'test drive' the system the inventory in the points system will increase which will make more opportunities which will lead to more conversions which will create momentum that will make the system successful.

Marriott got burned because home equity dried up and because they extended too much credit to second tier customers. I think they are going upscale for MCVI and downscaling the Ritz program and shooting directly for high net worth baby boomers.

Time will tell, but I think the system will be a big success. I plan on enrolling and test driving it to keep my options open and help make it a success. I can always withdraw if I think it is in my best interest.

 

[Slakk]

text deleted

 

[wsrobinson]

I think what most people forget is that most Marriott customers are not Tuggers. There are 400,000 plus Marriott owners and only 43,000 tuggers. In fact most tuggers think that Marriott owners are crazy and spend way too much for the Marriott 'experience' Maybe a few hundred active here and this is peak usage and maybe 10x that as casual users.

Before people crucify the Marriott marketing team, try to think about their true customers:

1. They are older and probably less tech savvy. Don't like spending hours searching II inventory on line. Don't care about 1,000 post Tug threads.

2. They bought Marriott instead of a second house and may have 50-100k invested in the system.

3. They hate II because of #1 and because they don't like giving up something to potentially get something. If they trade they give up their view they paid a premium for. They pay a lot of fees, etc. They allow Marriott to pick the week to deposit because the trust them and II does not give them the value. They would rather talk to a counselor and have a relationship.

4. They are successful and busy. Sometimes it is hard to get away for a full seven days. They will never run a rental business and don't troll red week/craigs list to get "deals" $1,000 is a nit to them.

5. They are the people who are screwed on the other side of the trade that Tuggers enjoy. They give their Hawaii week to their son who trades it to Orlando They deposit Grande Ocean for points because they can't get away for a full week

6. They use Marriott hotels and actually often trade for MR points because it allows them to vacation in short intervals like they are able. Most Tuggers think this is stupid.

7. They like Marriott and trust them. Most Tuggers also think this is stupid.

For these people a 7% skim is meaningless vs. actually getting to use their investment in a more efficient manner. They can now:

1. Use partial weeks
2. Trade some of their week for nights and other for MR points
3. Trade down and still have points left over to convert to MR points
4. Trade for the view that they want
5. Not have to deal with II or computers, but have a trusted person to call
6. Only pay one fee vs. getting nickeled and dimed
7. They now see that their resorts truly are worth more, and don't get the dregs left over from II.

These are the people Marriott wants to make happy and who they have responded to, not Tuggers. Most don't have a clue about the points system and will see it as a big improvement. When they get the email they will call and convert.

And it was actually pretty slick. You can enroll and as a bonus you get 800 points. However, 800 points is not enough to go anywhere so why not convert your weeks and see how it works. If you don't like it you can always keep things the way they are. Most people will 'invest' $700 to protect a $100k investment.

There is plenty of invetory in Oceana Palms, Marco Island, Hawaii, Lakeshore Reserve with the Ritz, etc. Lots of high class resorts and nice opportunities for short get aways if you have the points and means. Lots of new cruises, experiences, etc.

When these people convert to 'test drive' the system the inventory in the points system will increase which will make more opportunities which will lead to more conversions which will create momentum that will make the system successful.

Marriott got burned because home equity dried up and because they extended too much credit to second tier customers. I think they are going upscale for MCVI and downscaling the Ritz program and shooting directly for high net worth baby boomers.

Time will tell, but I think the system will be a big success.

How do you know my parents???

 

[UK Fan]

As I see it, the ball is in our court. "OUR" meaning the collective group of deeded weeks marriott owners, resale or not. To get the ball rolling, Marriott needs a significant number of owners to join AND convert their units into points. This may be the only time owners have such a significant say in the future of a marriott program.

I certainly see what you are saying and I fully intend on speaking with as many owners as possible at OceanWatch next week.

 

[eileenpat]

Confusion?

After speaking with 4 different reps, I received 4 different answers. Christine the rep, who seemed to be the most knowledgeable, ask for an "expert" to join the line because she was unsure of some of her answerers. This expert turned out to be a sales rep., to whom I had spoken with when considering buying resale through Marriott. This "expert" was a total sales pitch and was corrected numerous times by Christine!

Bottom line: Marriott has lost my trust. I am not really sure that they (Marriott) actually understand the program. As has been said, they have not handled this well.

By the way, upon contacting a friend who works with II, she said that they will be cut out of the loop if not trading outside of Marriott. They are not happy with Marriott.

To date I still do not have an e-mail. I was told that they would be coming out in the next few months! In addition, if one bought resale outside of Marriott, you are being penalized, at least financially.

Referencing a recent thread, per my stated experts, points must be used within a certain period of time or you loose them. Suppose you cannot get into a resort that you want to vacation at? Also, she said that one cannot "trade" points among owners. You get to use up to 2 years of YOUR points or they are gone!

Bottom line: Why would I trust Marriott to run a program that has so many caveats? They could not handle copying my name correctly from my deed to their data base!! Told me that the system does not take hyphenated names ...funny, I have correspondence that says it was corrected! So basically the right hand does not seem to know what the left is doing! And I am to believe that they can handle this program?

We, as many, have a great deal of money invested in our 3 weeks. We love our vacations, and I realize that Marriott is a for profit company. But why do I feel that this is similar to the housing market conundrum? I agree with the point system in its pure form, but the hidden control that seems to give Marriott all the advantages is very unsettling.

We will wait until the last minute to decide if we want to join the new program. By the way ........the sales rep said that "everyone was joining in record numbers..." the other representative contradicted her and said only a few people had joined, most were calling with questions or concerns.

Good luck to all in making your decision. I am a scientist, we need to have the facts before we decide. Hopefully, we will have those facts before the deadline to join! Thank you all for all your information. It was more than we received from Marriott!

 

[SueDonJ]

I think what most people forget is that most Marriott customers are not Tuggers. ... Time will tell, but I think the system will be a big success.

This is an EXCELLENT post - very well said!

 

[tlwmkw]

I was the one who took the tour at Surfwatch today and quoted the rep saying 86 per cent of weeks owners had joined, but it was owners who had toured not all owners. I also said I didn't believe him. He also said 35 per cent bought more points when they toured. I thought that was even less likely to be true. The guy seemed very lost at many of my questions. He was a BS'er. He also said that a couple who bought a garden view some years ago had bought 2250 points to "upgrade" to oceanfront because they regretted buying GV. That made me so sad because as of now there are no ocean front units in the trust and the weeks are all sold so how will these poor people get what is't available using " homeless stepchild" points? They will learn when they try to book I guess.

tlwmkw

 

[mightywyrm]

Collateralized VACATION obligation (CVO)

This may be a bit funny to anyone who recalls the CDOs (Collateralized Debt Obligations) that contributed the the mortgage crisis and overall economic malaise we've had for the past couple of years. There are enough similarities with Marriott's new product that I might start calling it CVO.

I like this term to describe the points program because Marriott has not focused on value creation. Instead, they have abstracted their underlying undesirable inventory behind points, and mechanisms that do such things as raiding II deposits, locking down up-trades, assigning values such that everyone is presented with tough choices if they want to continue to utilize the trading environment to which they've become accustomed, and the like.

Most importantly, like others have said, their points contracts ask customers to accept the financial obligation for whatever it is Marriott decides, while effectively delegating ownership to Marriott.

I really don't see this as brilliant - it's more like, boldly freakin' assertive.

It's a party foul.

Like others, I'm a little disturbed by this artificial - and cynical - approach to generating demand. They've done a good, if blatant, job of exploiting a number of Marketing concepts. I'm tempted to label it a play; a crafty, calculated gamble that has been carefully analyzed and determined to be likely to succeed (i.e., a takeover play).

The news that only 11 sites are actually in their Trust is potentially very alarming, too. It's more evidence of reliance on smoke and mirrors, and the absolute necessity of raiding deposits blindly placed into II.

As others have noted, the game has changed. Although it's technically true that weeks owners can continue to use their week just as before, Marriott and II have made arrangements to reduce their outcomes. Usage (i.e., deposit first, request first, search for Getaways) and results (i.e., what actually happens when you do these things) are very different things.

It's clearer than ever before, that when a salesman emphatically tells you how things work, he's describing a black box that has lots of levers inside it that the principals (Marriott and II) can change on a whim, and he is in no way promising that it will continue to be that way. Sometimes he's fair and honest, other times he's just trying to create misimpressions that we (willingly) would like to believe.

To be fair, I think Marriott has many good employees and offers great vacations. They don't simply do reservations and clean toilets, as others have said. They also develop and manage the resort network I've used many times and which I like (liked?). However, they've gone "a bridge too far" (or two, or three) with this highly rigged system.

 

[jimf41]

I was the one who took the tour at Surfwatch today and quoted the rep saying 86 per cent of weeks owners had joined, but it was owners who had toured not all owners. I also said I didn't believe him. He also said 35 per cent bought more points when they toured. I thought that was even less likely to be true. The guy seemed very lost at many of my questions. He was a BS'er. He also said that a couple who bought a garden view some years ago had bought 2250 points to "upgrade" to oceanfront because they regretted buying GV. That made me so sad because as of now there are no ocean front units in the trust and the weeks are all sold so how will these poor people get what is't available using " homeless stepchild" points? They will learn when they try to book I guess.

tlwmkw

How could you possibly know what's in the trust for this resort or what will be in the trust. The fact that a resort is sold out has no bearing on whether a points owner can get a week on points at that resort. The rep said 86% of the owners who took the tour enrolled. I think that's a little wishful thinking myself but if only 1 owner enrolled and gives up his oceanfront week to points then that poor couple with their homeless stepchild points have what they paid for.

 

[timeos2]

There will be some

I was the one who took the tour at Surfwatch today and quoted the rep saying 86 per cent of weeks owners had joined, but it was owners who had toured not all owners. I also said I didn't believe him. He also said 35 per cent bought more points when they toured. I thought that was even less likely to be true. The guy seemed very lost at many of my questions. He was a BS'er. He also said that a couple who bought a garden view some years ago had bought 2250 points to "upgrade" to oceanfront because they regretted buying GV. That made me so sad because as of now there are no ocean front units in the trust and the weeks are all sold so how will these poor people get what is't available using " homeless stepchild" points? They will learn when they try to book I guess.

tlwmkw

If even one or more existing OF owners join the program then there is inventory for the points owners. I'll bet its far more than one that buys in. The newly "upgraded" buyer may not get it every request in the future but they will get it a few times and thats a few they didn't have a chance at before.

 

[jimf41]

The news that only 11 sites are actually in their Trust is potentially very alarming, too. I

Why? Do you know what that means, I don't. I haven't seen anybody on TUG explain it although a lot of tuggers have expressed deep concern over it.

I do know that a weeks owner that doesn't enroll can reserve weeks at any of the 53 Marriott's in the system including those 11 trust owned. I also know that a points owner or an enrolled weeks owner using points can do the exact same thing. I also know that deeded weeks have been sold at all 11 of those trust based resorts so the trust doesn't own 100% of any of them.

Please explain your potential alarm. I don't understand it.

 

[CapriciousC]

I can see how the program is advantageous for some, but for us, it just doesn't work. At first glance it seemed appealing, particularly when the website touted that we could "choose any Vacation Club resort," but that bit's not really accurate, is it? All of the European resorts, as well as Phuket are excluded, and those are the resorts we'd be most interested in exchanging into.

It really seems to be a good deal for those who own on Hilton Head Island, though. We don't own there, but we do live about half an hour away, so if it brings more people (and money) to Hilton Head and boosts the local economy, I'm all for it

 

[timeos2]

II - Members? What's a stinkin' member? Let them be corporate

I believe this is because we're just individual customers, while they are some combination of major client, investor, and/or primary business partner.


col·lu·sion
   /kəˈluʒən/ Show Spelled[kuh-loo-zhuhn] Show IPA
–noun
1. a secret agreement, esp. for fraudulent or treacherous purposes; conspiracy: Some of his employees were acting in collusion to rob him.
2. Law . a secret understanding between two or more persons to gain something illegally, to defraud another of his or her rights, or to appear as adversaries though in agreement: collusion of husband and wife to obtain a divorce.

Edit: I am not asserting that anything technically illegal has occurred.

II is the Queen Bee of custom crafted deals favoring any corporate client. No mere member ever matters if a corporate deal can be made. The amazing thing is that any exchange ever makes it to a paying II member. They are the lowest of the low in the pecking order. Why anyone would pay to belong to II is beyond me as when you hook up with a preferred corporate account they are often free and get you trades you'd never even sniff as a mere member.

 

[ccpinternational]

For Manor Club Platinum floating week, it shows that I can get 2375 pts. And on the points calendar, I need 2950 to reserve a full week for June3-Aug 25,2011. That is 575pts in difference. If it is $9/pt, I have been ripped off for about $5000! WOW.

 

[Asia2000]

I think what most people forget is that most Marriott customers are not Tuggers. There are 400,000 plus Marriott owners and only 43,000 tuggers. In fact most tuggers think that Marriott owners are crazy and spend way too much for the Marriott 'experience' Maybe a few hundred active here and this is peak usage and maybe 10x that as casual users.

Before people crucify the Marriott marketing team, try to think about their true customers:

Wuv,

Very well stated. I guess if it is a hobby, then you really do not mind going through II on your own. Didn't the option exist before where you could have a representative handle everything for you? Yes, you may save on a few fees with the new program, but the upgrades and flexchanges through II are worth the II fees in my mind. But as you say, maybe not to others.

I would not label "successful people" as people who spend more to receive less. However, I can see that many of the benefits stated in this program may be benefits to some and benefit removal for others.

In the end, point program members will have to spend more to get what they want. Whether that is good or bad is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[brianfox]

Here's my 2 cents about this new system:

Marriott is moving to the system Disney has - points.
The problem is that current owners own a tangible asset of sorts - the right to a week at their home resort - and until now, owners never really had a concrete value to associate with their owned week. Sure, the free-market system assigned a value to the resale of your week, and Marriott assigned a retail value, but the fact that we can exchange our seemingly worthless week for a prime week inflated the value of any resort that tends to be "traded up" from.

Now, the point system attempts to assign a really-for-real value to every resort. Let's for a moment remove II from the equation. Let's take a cold hard look at just the Marriott point-system in a vacuum.

Going forward, as I understand it - new Marriott customers will only buy points. The cost right now appears to be $9.20 a point to buy and Maintenance Fees of $.40 per point.

I own the following weeks:
Platinum week at Desert Springs II = 2,900 points to me if I take points.
Silver week at Willow Ridge = 850 points to me if I take points

Let's see how they compare to the proposed point system:
I'm going to just use the points I would receive from Marriott as an owner for these calculations (not the points it would cost to stay that week):

Desert Springs - 2900 * $9.20 = $26680. This is the "value" marriott is assigning to ownership of my Platinum week. Bear with me if you want to argue this...

Willow Ridge - 850 points * $920 = $7820.

So am I suggesting my Willow Ridge Silver week is worth almost $8000? Hardly, but Marriott seems to be saying that... After all, buying 850 points annually would cost me $7820, and Marriott will give me 850 points annually for my Willow Ridge week.

What about the Maintenance Fees?
I paid $1080 in 2010 for Desert Springs. Point-wise, I paid $1080/2900= $0.372 per point -- slightly less than the $0.40 per point a new Marriott points-only customer would pay.

I paid $780 in 2010 for Willow Ridge MF. Point-wise, I paid $780/850=a staggering $0.917 per point. To me, that is an indication that Marriott is assigning a higher point value to the resort than they believe it's worth.


I purchased both of my weeks resale just a year ago, at a very good price. My Desert Springs cost $6500, and Marriott will allow me to exchange for 2900 points annually if I become a member of their system. Purchasing 2900 points today would cost about $20,000 more than what I paid for my week which would get the equivalent number of points and the MF would be roughly the same.


My Willow Ridge cost $1000, and Marriott will allow me to exchenge for 850 points annually if I become a member. Purchasing 850 points today would cost about $7000 more than what I paid for my week which would get the equivalent number of points, but the MF would be about half of what I pay.

From that vacuum perspective, the Marriott system sounds like a great deal - especially if I want to always stay at my home resort, or are willing to exchange into a lesser-resort.

Where it goes extremely sour is when we want to "exchange up". Until now, we could get great deals through II. From almost any perspective, an exchange out of a winter Branson week is an exchange up - that's why I purchased it. Any Flexchange I could get would most certainly be a great one.

Through the Marriott point system, the resort costs are laid out and appear to be inflexible. There is no "Flexchange" discount for last minute vacations. Both of my 2BR weeks combined would barely get a 1BR summer Hawaii week. Is that the way it should be? Is that reality? If it is, then the Marriott point system is not for me.

Many of us bought a Marriott because of the Lock-off option. Most of us have consistently exchanged our Studio for a 1BR or 2BR in the same season during Flex, and still had our 1BR to exchange for something else - basically a free week for the cost of an exchange fee. With the point system, that simply cannot happen any longer. Were we "gaming" the Interval system by doing that?

Even so, why not just join and try it out, as Pooh keeps suggesting? What could it hurt? The worst case is that you have to figure out how to spend your free 800 point bonus, right? I'm not convinced that is the case...

My big problem is that I'm still not certain what signing on the dotted line allows Marriott to do. I keep reading that Marriott somehow is allowed to pull from the Interval pool as it desires. Clearly, if they are allowed to raid the pool for the point-system use, II will die a quick death, and we will all be forced into the point system like-it-or-not. If I do NOT join the point system and deposit my week into the II pool, how can Marriott possibly grab it? What I do imagine is that if I DO join the point system, then that may give them the right to pull my II deposit out of the pool - and that is my fear.

If in fact the act of signing up for the option of having points allows Marriott to sap the II pool, that is a very scary thing. I want to know the answer to that one before I consider enrolling.

 

[jjluhman]

Brian- I think this is how Marriott can grab weeks from II for the Program.

Marriott Internal Exchange Procedures and Priorities
1. For all Club Program Trust Members and all Club Program Exchange
Members requesting exchange services based on the relinquishment
of Points, the Club Program Manager will be solely responsible for the
performance of exchanges into the Marriott Resorts. Where a requested
internal exchange cannot be confirmed through inventory available in
the MVC Club Program, the Club Program Manager will submit internal
exchange requests through II and, where the necessary inventory is
or becomes available in the Exchange Program, II will issue the
Confirmation to the Club Program Manager, who in turn will issue such
Confirmation to the applicable Club Program Member.

 

[brianfox]

For Manor Club Platinum floating week, it shows that I can get 2375 pts. And on the points calendar, I need 2950 to reserve a full week for June3-Aug 25,2011. That is 575pts in difference. If it is $9/pt, I have been ripped off for about $5000! WOW.

I'm no defender of this new system, but it's beed stated many times in this thread that you do NOT need to spend points to stay in your home resort. You will get a week in your deeded season - guaranteed.

What it is saying is that if you wanted to exchange your reserved week for another week in your season, it would cost you extra points. Today, you can call Marriott and if a different week in your season is available, you pay them a small fee to change your reservation. I imagine that would stay as it is. But once you take points for your week, then the only way to spend those points is to use their menu - and, yes, the week you just gave up would cost more points than you got. That sucks - so don't do that.

Heck, if I deposit my week with interval and want to exchange it for an adjacent week - and am lucky enough to get it - it still costs me an exchange fee. That sucks, too.

 

[mightywyrm]

Why? Do you know what that means, I don't. I haven't seen anybody on TUG explain it although a lot of tuggers have expressed deep concern over it.

I do know that a weeks owner that doesn't enroll can reserve weeks at any of the 53 Marriott's in the system including those 11 trust owned. I also know that a points owner or an enrolled weeks owner using points can do the exact same thing. I also know that deeded weeks have been sold at all 11 of those trust based resorts so the trust doesn't own 100% of any of them.

Please explain your potential alarm. I don't understand it.

Jim, my understanding is that it means there is zero inventory owned by the trust at 80% of the resorts. I would've expected a greater investment to match all the balloons and fanfare... This inventory has to come from somewhere, or there will be hell to pay with their sales strategy. Luckily for Marriott, it can simply rely on II to surreptitiously snag much (most? all?) of the high-value inventory and turn it over for points customers to use, without the weeks owners even knowing that this occurred. (See timeos2's recent post about II's attitude toward us little people.)

So yes, people who choose not to participate in the new program can go through the same motions and USE their weeks as they always have, blissfully ignorant that the game is more highly rigged against them than it was before. Outcomes for the weeks owners, who are continuing to "use their weeks as they always have" (but were not promised anything beyond that), are more likely to be disappointing. So here's a puff of smoke and bit of mirror, in the implication that nothing has changed while the truth appears to be quite different inside the II "black box".

This is only one of a long list of concerns and objections, but the game has changed despite beside-the-point assurances that we can go about the same rote, comforting processes to which we've grown accustomed.

 

[Stressy]

Brian- I think this is how Marriott can grab weeks from II for the Program.

Marriott Internal Exchange Procedures and Priorities
1. For all Club Program Trust Members and all Club Program Exchange
Members requesting exchange services based on the relinquishment
of Points, the Club Program Manager will be solely responsible for the
performance of exchanges into the Marriott Resorts. Where a requested
internal exchange cannot be confirmed through inventory available in
the MVC Club Program, the Club Program Manager will submit internal
exchange requests through II and, where the necessary inventory is
or becomes available in the Exchange Program, II will issue the
Confirmation to the Club Program Manager, who in turn will issue such
Confirmation to the applicable Club Program Member.

Here is what I'd like to know then. If the Club Program Manager is acting on behalf of the owner in their new II acccount...then they are simply making a request to II just like anyone else with a II account-right?

If I as a weeks owner who has not enrolled in the new system, deposit my week and place a request with my "regular" II account and my request predates the Club Program Manager's request (trade value and all other things being equal) Will they fill my request first?

Should that be a Marriott question or a II question?