Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

[mightywyrm]

Talked to my Marriott guide today, she is typically pretty honest. Her explanation of the "skim" is the increased points to stay at resorts reflects what Marriott now feels is the fair price to stay at the resorts. So that when they sell the new point packages people can buy the correct number of points that now reflect the true price of the resort. When I asked how this was "fair" to old week members, she responded that you still can use your week as always. The other thing that she said was "we told people for well over a year we have discounted pricing going on and they should buy know because prices are going up." It was an interesting conversation.

I'm glad she was honest enough to give you a straight answer. However, she couldn't address the point that even if you bought a second week, neither of your weeks could garner an equal trade. So, yes, now you realize that you could've gotten another week and thus have more than enough points to trade for, say, 1.8 or 1.9 equivalent weeks.

Lovely.

They *always* say something to the effect that "now is the time to buy". If this time they really meant it, they should've explained why, rather than springing this set of changes on us. They did NOT deal with their customer base in an open and honest way.

It's not that prices are went up, it's that values went down. They're using the system to deny things you could formerly do. That's not value creation, it's exploitation of people who they have put over a barrel.

The fact that they're asking for blind faith to trust them completely in their new points contracts is quite the outrageous power grab. I've never seen anything like it in any contract I've ever drafted or signed, short of a medical release (go ahead and kill me, I'm in your hands).

I'd love to hear that former Disney exec whose work product this supposedly is, come out of the shadows and justify his value proposition. (Maybe he was that shuttle bus driver who said that Marriott and Disney were going to merge their timeshare operations.)

ps - this is not intended to offend anyone who may see value in the new program, as I can see how in some scenarios (perhaps even my own) this could still be a reasonable decision to buy. For most people, however, the options available and various of the takeaways in the new program, represent a very poor value relative to what was available a few days ago.

 

[Asia2000]

I spoke to a "counselor" for over an hour Sunday about the new destination point system. He said that for someone like me, we usually go to our home resorts, that the destination point system probably would not be worth joining. My question is: We book at the Aruba Ocean Club for wks 51 and 52 annually. I own 3 weeks so I book wks 50-51. Will I now be in competition with someone who is multiple week owner in someplace like Branson, who has a lot of points and wants to go to Aruba? I pay a huge maintenance fee for Aruba and I would not like to have to compete with other owners from resorts that are not as valuable. It does not seem too fair to me. Anyone have any thoughts?

ilene,

This is just one person's opinion. Stick with what works. There is another thread going that Marriott is only selling from a trust of 11 resorts for the points program. I believe Aruba is not one of the 11 (ie. they are sold out) What this means is if people do not give up their week via the points program (or II), inventory is not going to be available. If you always stay at your home resort (or even most of the time), stay put and do not get swallowed up in the hype.

 

[Dean]

Dean after today I firmly believe the inmates ARE running the asylum. I went online yesterday and one of my resorts had a GREAT point value - so good that I in fact called them to make sure it was legit. I was told yes. So I enrolled immediately and got a confirmation.

Today I logged in (because I am traveling in a couple weeks and wanted to fill out my preference sheet) and somehow I *lost* 1775 points. I immediately called and at first was told I just needed better educating on the system and I never had those 1775 points then when I was able to produce an email confirming enrollment that included those 1775 points they said they would research and get back to me. No word.

Now tonight I logged in to show my husband miraculously 300 of those points showed back up. From DVC we know that a resort is supposed to be worth X points and then it is split up, right now it seems to me like Marriott is using a Magic 8 ball to determine values.

Now I am off to put my STILL missing 1475 points on a milk carton!

To me it's usual for new computer related roll outs to go as such, doesn't seem too out of the ordinary for me. I'm sure they'll let you out of it and decide later given the circumstances but they are not going to give you the incorrect points year after year no matter waht. They might give you a few extra bonus points for this coming year if you stay in now. However, I do think it's nuts to do it the way they have. If you want to reallocate the points with this move, just average them so at least it evens out across a given resort for the year. Even then not everyone is happy but at least they should be able to understand it, this spread has everyone scratching their head. Can't compare to DVC, they've gone too far the other way.

 

[m61376]

That's how I'm thinking it will work because an owner who enrolls into the Points system does not have to declare his/her usage option until s/he calls in to make a reservation. So yes, I think all Points inventory, whether it's from existing Developer inventory, Weeks inventory exchanged for MRP, Weeks inventory given to the Rental Program, Enrolled Points or Club Points, will be available to all Points owners on a first-come-first-serve basis. Of course Marriott will have to satisfy all of the contractual stipulations for 13- and 12-mo inventory controls as well as Weeks/Points percentages of owners, but I think the separation of inventory will be done as reservations are made and not prior to the reservation windows.

So if there are 10 available intervals and 5 owners of those intervals did not enroll in Points, those 5 owners will be guaranteed a week in their season if they follow the stipulated Reservation Procedures of the Weeks system - no Points owner can reserve those 5 Weeks intervals. But it doesn't matter that the 5 remaining available intervals are owned by Enrolled Points owners who have the ability to book the intervals as weeks under the Weeks system - those owners do not have a Weeks reservation priority over any other Points owner and will be subject to the first-come-first-serve basis.

I could be wrong, but I'm basing this on the things that were discussed in that speculation thread and the little bit of contract language that I've reviewed.

For what it's worth, I was specifically told the opposite- that converted weeks owners who elected to trade in weeks for the year would be grouped with other week owners and the inventory pools are absolutely separate and each available reservation opportunity (week/day/unit) reflects their proportionate share of ownership. So, if 25% of owners convert to points for a given year, then 25% of each reservation opportunity will be allotted to points reservations and 75% to weeks reservations, with the same 50/50 13/12 month split for each group as previously.

 

[Asia2000]

I'm glad she was honest enough to give you a straight answer. However, she couldn't address the point that even if you bought a second week, neither of your weeks could garner an equal trade. So, yes, now you realize that you could've gotten another week and thus have more than enough points to trade for, say, 1.8 or 1.9 equivalent weeks.

Lovely.

They *always* say something to the effect that "now is the time to buy". If this time they really meant it, they should've explained why, rather than springing this set of changes on us. They did NOT deal with their customer base in an open and honest way.

It's not that prices are went up, it's that values went down. They're using the system to deny things you could formerly do. That's not value creation, it's exploitation of people who they have put over a barrel.

The fact that they're asking for blind faith to trust them completely in their new points contracts is quite the outrageous power grab. I've never seen anything like it in any contract I've ever drafted or signed, short of a medical release (go ahead and kill me, I'm in your hands).

I'd love to hear that former Disney exec whose work product this supposedly is, come out of the shadows and justify his value proposition. (Maybe he was that shuttle bus driver who said that Marriott and Disney were going to merge their timeshare operations.)

ps - this is not intended to offend anyone who may see value in the new program, as I can see how in some scenarios (perhaps even my own) this could still be a reasonable decision to buy. For most people, however, the options available and various of the takeaways in the new program, represent a very poor value relative to what was available a few days ago.

Yes, you hit the nail on the head. This is what I thought most people would be posting. For many, I think they are joining out of fear and the idea that if you spend more money, it has to be better. They are accepting mediocrity.

The people who are receiving higher values for their weeks than what is required to stay are Marriott's favorite weeks and resorts. They need inventory at these resorts, so they are using a few extra points as bait. Most everyone else will need to buy more points to keep "the base" of what they had in addition to losing all of the upgrade possibilities and possible flexchanges.

 

[Slakk]

text deleted

 

[m61376]

I think so, but like I said I'm not sure. It's one of the things I'm trying to figure out before I make the commitment.

It is true that if you enroll in Points then the option to reserve at your home resort doesn't change - you will still have the deeded right to reserve the interval on your existing Weeks deed. But that right is "subject to availability" and it appears that because Enrolled Weeks owners do not have a reservation priority for their home resort use over Enrolled Points owners of other resorts or Club Points owners, then their Enrolled Weeks intervals will be spread across all Points owners according to their tiered Reservation Procedures, and "subject to availability" will become a much larger factor at all resorts where intervals are held by any Points owners.

I can't find anything that says Marriott must hold back Weeks inventory for ALL Weeks owners including Enrolled Points owners until they've declared their usage intention for a particular year. The Weeks owners who do not enroll are protected by their contracts from Marriott releasing their inventory to Points owners prior to whatever point Marriott can pick up intervals (at most resorts, that mark is 75 days prior to check-in.) I don't see anything in the Enrolled Points contracts, so far, that leads me to believe they have the same protections; I think that by signing the contract for Enrollment, they're accepting the terms of Points inventory. I think. I hope one of the lawyers here can tell me where I'm wrong, or that Marriott will answer the question definitively.

That's a really good question- since don't you have until Sept. 30th of the year preceding use to declare intent to convert to points, but people are actually booking already for 9 or 10 months. That might be a gaping loohole


sorry- see you addressed this a few pages back- should have caught up before commenting

 

[dioxide45]

Why does Marriott get to re-exchange II exchanges? We can't do it

 

[JimIg23]

I have been number crunching. Although I dont like that my NCV week is nowhere near close to what it take to book a summer NCV, that in itself does not bother me too much because when I want to go there, I will book my deeded week.

What I have been crunching is the numbers compared to trades during the times I go, which is always summer. I am also assuming that an II trade will get me the least view (GV or OS)... I am doing that because most posts I see (and trades I have gotten) have not been for the best views.

So, my NCV and MHZ EOY are worth 6025 together for two years, lets say 3000 points per year with banking to balance the 2 years.

This is what I can reserve for the points for those two years in the summer (the ones I would go to):

Ocean Point OS, 2950
Ocean Palm OS, 2950
Surf Club GV, 2950
St Kitts, 2700
Frenchman's Cove 2975
Manor Club 2950
Ocean Watch (3450: I would need to do a 6 day the other year)

I excluded Orlando, I can use mine or get a getaway. Now, the main question will be if I deposit into points, will I be able to get these weeks thru the points system?

Do I want big upgrades? Yes of course. I am trying to get two HI summer weeks for 2011 in the summer thru II and can do that still I think when I want to see if I can get lucky.. II is a lot of luck for timing, view, etc, and most of us know that. I am still going to wait because there are too many issues that need to be answered (II access for week trades, availability of point trades) But honestly, for the price I got my weeks resale, those points trades are not that bad as an alternate way to trade.

 

[Venter]

Thousands of posts and need some advice

Could somebody please paste the text from the website etc that states if you do not join then you will not have access to new resorts. Also that II will have less inventory.

I am European and US owner and will not join a it will cost me more simply because I will have to continue with a seperate II account for my Club Son Antem week.

I feel my ownership has been completely devalued because if the above statements are true and documented I would not have access to internal trades as before.

I would like to take these things to my sales rep and see what she has to say about me being screwed in such a way.

 

[mightywyrm]

Why does Marriott get to re-exchange II exchanges? We can't do it

I believe this is because we're just individual customers, while they are some combination of major client, investor, and/or primary business partner.


col·lu·sion
   /kəˈluʒən/ Show Spelled[kuh-loo-zhuhn] Show IPA
–noun
1. a secret agreement, esp. for fraudulent or treacherous purposes; conspiracy: Some of his employees were acting in collusion to rob him.
2. Law . a secret understanding between two or more persons to gain something illegally, to defraud another of his or her rights, or to appear as adversaries though in agreement: collusion of husband and wife to obtain a divorce.

Edit: I am not asserting that anything technically illegal has occurred.

 

[Y-ASK]

I decided to enroll and was told that they've had over 800 owners enroll since the e-mails went out. I didn't get the e-mail but they didn't need to know that . Guess I'll see if I'm happy with the system or not in a few years. Paid $1495.00 and got back $207 from II.

Y-ASK

 

[wsrobinson]

To me it's usual for new computer related roll outs to go as such, doesn't seem too out of the ordinary for me. I'm sure they'll let you out of it and decide later given the circumstances but they are not going to give you the incorrect points year after year no matter waht. They might give you a few extra bonus points for this coming year if you stay in now. However, I do think it's nuts to do it the way they have. If you want to reallocate the points with this move, just average them so at least it evens out across a given resort for the year. Even then not everyone is happy but at least they should be able to understand it, this spread has everyone scratching their head. Can't compare to DVC, they've gone too far the other way.

Please understand mistakes happen, how would it be remotely possible or fair for someone to jump on a mistake (I could make the sam claim as mine were originally 5750 and were revised downward to 4200) and claim the mistaken points should be theirs? What if they revised everyone but Slakk? I sincerely hope they didn't give Slakk 300 points to appease him. If that's the case I'm raising holy heck. Bottom line mistakes happen. Our society has gone overboard always thinking someone should get something for nothing.

 

[Asia2000]

Could somebody please paste the text from the website etc that states if you do not join then you will not have access to new resorts. Also that II will have less inventory.

I am European and US owner and will not join a it will cost me more simply because I will have to continue with a seperate II account for my Club Son Antem week.

I feel my ownership has been completely devalued because if the above statements are true and documented I would not have access to internal trades as before.

I would like to take these things to my sales rep and see what she has to say about me being screwed in such a way.

No documents have been posted on this (not being able to join new resorts or that II will have less inventory). Regarding inventory, read through this http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124444

Do not join out of fear or the idea of spending more will give you more. Only join on logic.

 

[wsrobinson]

I decided to enroll and was told that they've had over 800 owners enroll since the e-mails went out. I didn't get the e-mail but they didn't need to know that . Guess I'll see if I'm happy with the system or not in a few years. Paid $1495.00 and got back $207 from II.

Y-ASK

800 out of 400000 or 0.002 pct.

 

[dioxide45]

Could somebody please paste the text from the website etc that states if you do not join then you will not have access to new resorts. Also that II will have less inventory.

There isn't any. An in fact when resorts are first built, Marriott will have no choice to deposit excess inventory in to II. They will have a lot of empty units if they don't. The new system isn't going to magically increase demand all of a sudden. They also rely on those bulk deposits for new sales prospects.

 

[NJDave]

There is too much conflicting information. It would be great if a Marriott representative would answer some questions on this board like we once had with Interval and RCI.

Anyone have any connections to try to line this up?

 

[saturn28]

I decided to enroll and was told that they've had over 800 owners enroll since the e-mails went out. I didn't get the e-mail but they didn't need to know that . Guess I'll see if I'm happy with the system or not in a few years. Paid $1495.00 and got back $207 from II.

Y-ASK

Oh really. In another thread someone that toured today was told by their sales person that 86% of Marriott weeks owners have already joined the new destination points system and 35% of those owners purchased points. That is an amazing rate. Expeically when you consider the program was roled out yesterday.

 

[Slakk]

text deleted

 

[SueDonJ]

For what it's worth, I was specifically told the opposite- that converted weeks owners who elected to trade in weeks for the year would be grouped with other week owners and the inventory pools are absolutely separate and each available reservation opportunity (week/day/unit) reflects their proportionate share of ownership. So, if 25% of owners convert to points for a given year, then 25% of each reservation opportunity will be allotted to points reservations and 75% to weeks reservations, with the same 50/50 13/12 month split for each group as previously.

Got it, m. You'll find me screaming from the rooftops a few posts later.

 

[SueDonJ]

That's a really good question- since don't you have until Sept. 30th of the year preceding use to declare intent to convert to points, but people are actually booking already for 9 or 10 months. That might be a gaping loohole


sorry- see you addressed this a few pages back- should have caught up before commenting

Ha! We're tripping all over each other! :hysterical:

 

[wsrobinson]

Hang on. I looked at the enrollment, saw a point value, liked it, called Marriott for confirmation on the point value and then PAID them for it and got a confirmation with that amount listed. I did not get something for nothing I have no idea if this number has changed more than the 3 numbers I have seen.

This has nothing to do with society - it has to do with Marriott offering me something, me agreeing to the terms, them confirming the deal then without notice or explanation changing the terms.

I guess you think it would be fine if I advertised my BMW for sale and you contacted me and we agreed to the price and I confirmed a sale and then sent you a little red wagon.

If that's the case, want to buy a BMW? :hysterical:

I liked mine too!!! Heck I was ecstatic but I had an idea mine was wrong because Sue said her point value at the same resort with the same view (but 3 bedroom) had the same point value as mine. I could call them up and raise a fuss that I "deserve" the higher value but its WRONG. They made a simple mistake (one they rectified since).

A more apt example in this case, a car dealer lists the BMW for 59999 but is printed as 599.99. I guess you show up making a stink demanding the car for that???

 

[Dean]

Hang on. I looked at the enrollment, saw a point value, liked it, called Marriott for confirmation on the point value and then PAID them for it and got a confirmation with that amount listed. I did not get something for nothing I have no idea if this number has changed more than the 3 numbers I have seen.

This has nothing to do with society - it has to do with Marriott offering me something, me agreeing to the terms, them confirming the deal then without notice or explanation changing the terms.

I guess you think it would be fine if I advertised my BMW for sale and you contacted me and we agreed to the price and I confirmed a sale and then sent you a little red wagon.

If that's the case, want to buy a BMW? :hysterical:

But if you listed it for sale and the add came out the wrong price, off by a decimal point in favor of the buyer, would you go through with the deal at 10% the advertised price? I'd bet no.

Since I work in eComm I can tell you that it is NOT usual to QA a system like this and have these type of errors. If my team did this type of project I would have been FIRED.

Our experiences are different plus while this may be a major deal to you, it's really a minor issue overall.

 

[floyddl]

Hang on. I looked at the enrollment, saw a point value, liked it, called Marriott for confirmation on the point value and then PAID them for it and got a confirmation with that amount listed. I did not get something for nothing I have no idea if this number has changed more than the 3 numbers I have seen.

This has nothing to do with society - it has to do with Marriott offering me something, me agreeing to the terms, them confirming the deal then without notice or explanation changing the terms.

I guess you think it would be fine if I advertised my BMW for sale and you contacted me and we agreed to the price and I confirmed a sale and then sent you a little red wagon.

If that's the case, want to buy a BMW? :hysterical:

I don't blame you one bit. It is troubling though that MVCI will authorize an override of the stated program values for a particular owner. It might have been more appropriate if they offered some form of compensation for the mistake that didn't involve an exception on the point values. If they do it here one can only wonder how many others exist.

 

[dioxide45]

Oh really. In another thread someone that toured today was told by their sales person that 86% of Marriott weeks owners have already joined the new destination points system and 35% of those owners purchased points. That is an amazing rate. Expeically when you consider the program was roled out yesterday.

And no official communication. I would be surprise if 86% of owners actually even know about it yet.