Marriott Destination Points...They have done it!!!!!! {Merged}

[banquopack]

Here is the language from the FAQ on the mvci webpage for the new system (highlighting is mine):


Where will the inventory come from to fulfill vacation reservations within the Marriott Vacation Club Collection?

Inventory throughout the Marriott Vacation Club Collection will be available for reservations for Enrolled Owners via other Marriott Vacation Club Owners who enroll their weeks and elect Vacation Club Points, and non-enrolled Owners who trade their usage for Marriott Rewards points or exchange their week through membership in Interval International.

For exactly this reason I hope they put out their disclosure document every year. They want us to jump in the bucket - a bunch of their buckets are quite empty!

They only list 11 of their 48 resorts with non-owner turned in inventory. That sucks for the points people. I can also see that if I tried to cash in my 10K maui points to visit kauai, there probably won't be anything at waiohai for me. Then I'm screwed and have to use my points to buy back into my own resort at a serious penalty.

 

[SueDonJ]

I believe that on the webiste, in one of the FAQs, it states that inventory available to points owners comes from three places (I am summarizing, not quoting directly, but you can check the language):

(i) weeks owners who convert to MRP;
(ii) deposits into II (exactly which deposits still seems somewhat unclear); and
(iii) units owned by weeks owners who enroll in points AND ELECT TO CONVERT THEIR WEEK TO POINTS FOR THE YEAR AT ISSUE.

So, simpy by virtue of enrolling in points, I do not believe that your week becomes part of the points bucket. Presumably, that also means that when you call to reserve a week at your home resort, without using points, you are competing with other weeks owners, both those who have not enrolled, and those who have enrolled but who havent elected points for the year at issue, for whatever weeks are allocated to the "weeks" bucket of inventory.

OK, here is what the Marriott guy said on the phone, after going to talk to a supervisor.

You can exchange your week for points, 3 months in advance of the use year. In our case, our use year is January 1 through Dec. 31. So let's say I want points for my 2012 week. The earliest I can make that request is October 1st, 2011. I can not use those points until 2012. Also, let's say I have points in my account, and bank them, or whatever...I can only reserve 12 months in advance, or 13 months if you have priority. However, they were very clear that the inventory can only come from Marriott owned weeks that they turned into points; or from owners that exchange their week for points or MR points. If I join the Club, and I want to exchange my week for another week, then my week does not go into the points bucket, but goes into the II bucket, just as if I was not part of the club at all. The only difference is that my fees are paid by the Club Dues and I do not have to have a separate II account. If I exchange outside of Marriott, then I pay the Club Dues and the II exchange fee - not a good deal for me.

So if this guy was right (and by the way, I asked to see this in writing and his head almost exploded as he was all over the place, so take it for what it is worth); then as a weeks owner, I am really only threatened by other weeks owners who trade in for points, and/or any weeks that Marriott may still own at my property. So I guess there is no way for me to tell how many people convert to points and what would be better for me. If more convert to points, then I could be screwed on the hot weeks if I do not convert. If I do convert, then I could be screwed by having to buy more points just to get the week I get now, pay more in maintenance, and run the risk that not that many owners convert and I am in the wrong bucket and can't get what I want anyway.

This really sucks!!! I almost wish they forced our hand (I know it would be illegal) and just converted us all to points and that would be the end of it. At least then I would be certain that I would be pissed off, but would understand the program and everyone would play with the same rules - now I don't know how to think or which way is best.

I will say this - if I walked into a Marriott presentation today, and they tried to sell me this points jazz - I would walk out (with my gift in hand) as quickly as possible!! Not having a resort priority is selling impossible dreams to the unknowing masses - and is not what I expected from Marriott. With so many people in the system, and so many weeks owners not part of the system (at least from day 1) - there is no way they could justify to me that I would always be able to get into Maui, where I own now and bought to stay there. I would laugh at the sales rep that tried to pitch that nonsense. This open resort architecture they are selling is going to turn the majority of new points buyers into the Platinum Weeks Owners at NCV looking for a summer week...very unhappy owners!!

I WAS WRONG! (Not angry, just shouting from the rooftops. ) I'm glad, though, because that was a huge concern. It makes sense now, thanks, that's the kind of thing I was hoping to see. But what a gigantic dopeslap for me for missing something right in front of my face!

What 5infam says is correct, though - there's no way to tell how many owners at your resort are Enrolled Points owners or have elected a points exchange in a certain year. That is another reason to consider availability at home resorts as a bigger issue than it was under the Weeks system, so first-come-first-serve is still going to be more important.

 

[banquopack]

I WAS WRONG! (Not angry, just shouting from the rooftops. ) I'm glad, though, because that was a huge concern. It makes sense now, thanks, that's the kind of thing I was hoping to see. But what a gigantic dopeslap for me for missing something right in front of my face!

What 5infam says is correct, though - there's no way to tell how many owners at your resort are Enrolled Points owners or have elected a points exchange in a certain year. That is another reason to consider availability at home resorts as a bigger issue than it was under the Weeks system, so first-come-first-serve is still going to be more important.

Their disclosure guide does list the total members by resort. Now we just need them to issue that document every year (or quarter - even better) to see where we stand.

 

[RedHook]

Went to presentation today

I've been reading this board for three days, and I went to the owner's presentation at Frenchman's Cove today. Thought I would share some thoughts and highlights.

First of all, I don't get the hysteria over the alleged point skimming. I would have to be out of my mind to exchange my week for points and then try to book my own resort anyway. So the differential means nothing to me. Marriott making a profit seems to really irritate some folks. Did you really think they paid $13 for the chicken sandwich and fries you ordered by the pool? As for not getting your "fair" points, in most of the scenarios I've seen here, you wouldn't use points anyway. If you're trading a week for a week, points never enter into the equation. I can trade my MFC week for higher-valued Aruba or for lower-valued Panama City. I don't need points to exchange a week.

The point differential was described to me as a "breakage allowance". If they are going to let us stay for five nights or 11 nights, that will force unused nights in between these irregular stays. That's where the 7% premium comes from.

Points can be banked for one year. So if you're saving for a big African safari that requires 13,000 points, you would have to plan it so that you could bank 2011 and borrow from 2013 to be able to go on this trip in 2012.

Non-Marriott exchanges through II would not be covered by your annual membership fee. That's the one extra charge.

Frenchman's Cove is the only property still selling deeded weeks. That will continue until the USVI government gets their act together.

They were offering 13,900 Destination points if we bought another week today.

Took the $100, having dinner at Havana Blue tonight.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

I've been reading this board for three days, and I went to the owner's presentation at Frenchman's Cove today. Thought I would share some thoughts and highlights.

First of all, I don't get the hysteria over the alleged point skimming. I would have to be out of my mind to exchange my week for points and then try to book my own resort anyway. So the differential means nothing to me. Marriott making a profit seems to really irritate some folks. Did you really think they paid $13 for the chicken sandwich and fries you ordered by the pool? As for not getting your "fair" points, in most of the scenarios I've seen here, you wouldn't use points anyway. If you're trading a week for a week, points never enter into the equation. I can trade my MFC week for higher-valued Aruba or for lower-valued Panama City. I don't need points to exchange a week.

The point differential was described to me as a "breakage allowance". If they are going to let us stay for five nights or 11 nights, that will force unused nights in between these irregular stays. That's where the 7% premium comes from.

Points can be banked for one year. So if you're saving for a big African safari that requires 13,000 points, you would have to plan it so that you could bank 2011 and borrow from 2013 to be able to go on this trip in 2012.

Non-Marriott exchanges through II would not be covered by your annual membership fee. That's the one extra charge.

Frenchman's Cove is the only property still selling deeded weeks. That will continue until the USVI government gets their act together.

They were offering 13,900 Destination points if we bought another week today.

Took the $100, having dinner at Havana Blue tonight.

Curious: What is the value (or the perceived value) of 13,900 Destination Points?

 

[Numismatist]

I've been reading this board for three days, and I went to the owner's presentation at Frenchman's Cove today. Thought I would share some thoughts and highlights.

First of all, I don't get the hysteria over the alleged point skimming. I would have to be out of my mind to exchange my week for points and then try to book my own resort anyway. So the differential means nothing to me. Marriott making a profit seems to really irritate some folks. Did you really think they paid $13 for the chicken sandwich and fries you ordered by the pool? As for not getting your "fair" points, in most of the scenarios I've seen here, you wouldn't use points anyway. If you're trading a week for a week, points never enter into the equation. I can trade my MFC week for higher-valued Aruba or for lower-valued Panama City. I don't need points to exchange a week.

The point differential was described to me as a "breakage allowance". If they are going to let us stay for five nights or 11 nights, that will force unused nights in between these irregular stays. That's where the 7% premium comes from.

Points can be banked for one year. So if you're saving for a big African safari that requires 13,000 points, you would have to plan it so that you could bank 2011 and borrow from 2013 to be able to go on this trip in 2012.

Non-Marriott exchanges through II would not be covered by your annual membership fee. That's the one extra charge.

Frenchman's Cove is the only property still selling deeded weeks. That will continue until the USVI government gets their act together.

They were offering 13,900 Destination points if we bought another week today.

Took the $100, having dinner at Havana Blue tonight.

" First of all, I don't get the hysteria over the alleged point skimming. I would have to be out of my mind to exchange my week for points and then try to book my own resort anyway. "

The issue is that if there is another resort I previously thought of as EQUAL to MFC, now I can't get that as an EVEN trade can I? No. If I only get 2775 points for my MFC Gold and the previously-thought-of EQUAL now needs 3000 points (just like MFC does) then I can't get in. I can now ONLY trade down with points.

P. S. Enjoy Havana Blue! How are the waves?

 

[5infam]

RedHook - I think the skimming thing irritates people as we were expecting an internal Marriott exchange program, outside of II - and we can not exchange as we could today, like for like. Now using points, it takes more points than what we would get for our units to get what we get today - assuming we trade our week for points.

You may not like it so much if you don't join the program, and Marriott is allowed to take any weeks deposited into II and turn those into points, thus raiding the pool of exchange options for you. You also may not like it if you do enroll in points and trade a week for a week, but again, Marriott raided the weeks available and gave them to points people. This is still the unclear part of the points program - we are not 100% sure what Marriott can and can not do in relation to weeks deposited into II whether they come from points members or not. Until that is answered in writing, we are in the dark.

With that said, enjoy the $100 bucks at dinner and thanks for posting what you found out

 

[Old Hickory]

Took the $100, having dinner at Havana Blue tonight.

Be sure to have the house special Margarita. One of the best I've had anywhere!

 

[ArtsieAng]

RedHook

First of all, I don't get the hysteria over the alleged point skimming. I would have to be out of my mind to exchange my week for points and then try to book my own resort anyway. So the differential means nothing to me.

The program will work for some, but for those who are interested in a week "like for like" exchange, it will not work. The points that Marriott alloted for our weeks only entitles us to trade down.

We can choose to use our weeks as in the past, but with a system that does not have a home resort priority, it will become much more difficult to get a decent week, at your home resort. Unlike in the past, we are no longer just competing with those who own at our resort, and within our season for a week. Sigh!

 

[KarenP]

How will this affect the Florida Club?

I'm assuming that if I elect to pay for the point conversion, and I don't use points in a particular year, I am free to make a reservation at any Florida Club resort, just as I am now? And then either use that reservation myself, rent it, or deposit with II or another exchange company?

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

I'm assuming that if I elect to pay for the point conversion, and I don't use points in a particular year, I am free to make a reservation at any Florida Club resort, just as I am now? And then either use that reservation myself, rent it, or deposit with II or another exchange company?

Good luck finding inventory within the 6 month time frame. I think it will be more difficult than normal to use the Florida Club because of the new program, but hopefully I am wrong.

 

[Numismatist]

Has anyone looked at the various points being given per location and determined if Marriott has correctly prioritized resorts?

 

[divenski]

The issue is that if there is another resort I previously thought of as EQUAL to MFC, now I can't get that as an EVEN trade can I? No. If I only get 2775 points for my MFC Gold and the previously-thought-of EQUAL now needs 3000 points (just like MFC does) then I can't get in. I can now ONLY trade down with points.

P. S. Enjoy Havana Blue! How are the waves?

Arguably, a lot of people were already trading down thru II. An II trader would lose any right to a view location, in fact was put on the bottom of the room priority list, and probably couldn't get a high season week either.

IMO, the people who really have a right to complain are those who bought high demand seasons and go often, but now will face more competition for good weeks. The own to use concept is on it's way out.

 

[MikeZ]

Just got off the phone with Owner Services, and am now madder than ever! After being put on hold for 16 minutes when I asked about the disparity in points given/points needed, the rep came back on and told me that he "didn't really get a good answer." He told me that he has been asking the same question since he was initially trained and hasn't gotten any response. I asked him why he thought they would do it, and he told me "probably to get you to buy more points!" I love honesty, at least!

He asked if I wanted to file an official complaint with his supervisor, as that may make a difference with enough people calling. After another wait, she came on and proceeded to insult my intelligence! When I described my principal concern as not being able to trade like-for-like, she told me that has never been the case. I gave her my trading history with my Waiohai unit, and she told me I MUST JUST BE LUCKY!

It went downhill after that....

She could not explain why a unit I am given 5075 points for will take 6125 for someone else to use, or what happens to those extra points. All she kept saying was that "owners wanted more flexibility" and "owners hate dealing with Interval."

They both admitted thay they were both uncertain of how to deal with these questions, because they were told it wouldn't be a concern to us. The concern definitely rolls uphill!

 

[scrapngen]

Just got off the phone with Owner Services, and am now madder than ever! After being put on hold for 16 minutes when I asked about the disparity in points given/points needed, the rep came back on and told me that he "didn't really get a good answer." He told me that he has been asking the same question since he was initially trained and hasn't gotten any response. I asked him why he thought they would do it, and he told me "probably to get you to buy more points!" I love honesty, at least!

He asked if I wanted to file an official complaint with his supervisor, as that may make a difference with enough people calling. After another wait, she came on and proceeded to insult my intelligence! When I described my principal concern as not being able to trade like-for-like, she told me that has never been the case. I gave her my trading history with my Waiohai unit, and she told me I MUST JUST BE LUCKY!

It went downhill after that....

She could not explain why a unit I am given 5075 points for will take 6125 for someone else to use, or what happens to those extra points. All she kept saying was that "owners wanted more flexibility" and "owners hate dealing with Interval."

They both admitted thay they were both uncertain of how to deal with these questions, because they were told it wouldn't be a concern to us. The concern definitely rolls uphill!

Yeah...now owners will "hate dealing with Marriott!!" - that will be so much better for them :hysterical:

 

[RedHook]

Re:

To the folks who replied and said that they can only trade down because of the point skimming, that is not how it was explained to me. Our salesman said that if you are trading your week for another week, you exchange weeks, not points. Like I said in my previous post: I can trade up or down, it doesn't matter, as long as it is week for week. Points never come into play.

 

[SDMiller]

Where is it on the Marriott website how many points it takes to do the "trips" ie Safari, etc. We have not yet joined but are thinking about it for we have five weeks at different resorts.

SD

 

[ArtsieAng]

MikeZ

She could not explain why a unit I am given 5075 points for will take 6125 for someone else to use, or what happens to those extra points. All she kept saying was that "owners wanted more flexibility" and "owners hate dealing with Interval."

They both admitted thay they were both uncertain of how to deal with these questions, because they were told it wouldn't be a concern to us. The concern definitely rolls uphill!

:hysterical:

 

[Numismatist]

To the folks who replied and said that they can only trade down because of the point skimming, that is not how it was explained to me. Our salesman said that if you are trading your week for another week, you exchange weeks, not points. Like I said in my previous post: I can trade up or down, it doesn't matter, as long as it is week for week. Points never come into play.

You're forgetting that trading week for week will be limited to those Marriott weeks that find their way into II and aren't immmediately yanked back out by Marriott. Ask yourself: what will be left in II to trade for? Less valuable...always.

 

[Stefa]

Our salesman said that if you are trading your week for another week, you exchange weeks, not points. Like I said in my previous post: I can trade up or down, it doesn't matter, as long as it is week for week. Points never come into play.

Typical salesperson BS. If points don't come into play, why are they assigning a point value to our weeks?

 

[5infam]

Just got off the phone with Owner Services, and am now madder than ever! After being put on hold for 16 minutes when I asked about the disparity in points given/points needed, the rep came back on and told me that he "didn't really get a good answer." He told me that he has been asking the same question since he was initially trained and hasn't gotten any response. I asked him why he thought they would do it, and he told me "probably to get you to buy more points!" I love honesty, at least!

He asked if I wanted to file an official complaint with his supervisor, as that may make a difference with enough people calling. After another wait, she came on and proceeded to insult my intelligence! When I described my principal concern as not being able to trade like-for-like, she told me that has never been the case. I gave her my trading history with my Waiohai unit, and she told me I MUST JUST BE LUCKY!

It went downhill after that....

She could not explain why a unit I am given 5075 points for will take 6125 for someone else to use, or what happens to those extra points. All she kept saying was that "owners wanted more flexibility" and "owners hate dealing with Interval."

They both admitted thay they were both uncertain of how to deal with these questions, because they were told it wouldn't be a concern to us. The concern definitely rolls uphill!

This really sucks!!! I believe that today, if I trade my week into II and request my identical week (albeit the view is not guaranteed) that I, as an owner of that resort, will get priority over non-owners. That is all I want - the ability to get back what i put in, and get so on a priority basis as I have now. Now, I was also able to use my Hawaii power and get 2bdr units for my 1bdrm Hawaii - but I can see where Marriott may want to stop that. However, to short change me on like for like is unacceptable!!

 

[James1975NY]

Just got off the phone with Owner Services, and am now madder than ever! After being put on hold for 16 minutes when I asked about the disparity in points given/points needed, the rep came back on and told me that he "didn't really get a good answer." He told me that he has been asking the same question since he was initially trained and hasn't gotten any response. I asked him why he thought they would do it, and he told me "probably to get you to buy more points!" I love honesty, at least!

He asked if I wanted to file an official complaint with his supervisor, as that may make a difference with enough people calling. After another wait, she came on and proceeded to insult my intelligence! When I described my principal concern as not being able to trade like-for-like, she told me that has never been the case. I gave her my trading history with my Waiohai unit, and she told me I MUST JUST BE LUCKY!

It went downhill after that....

She could not explain why a unit I am given 5075 points for will take 6125 for someone else to use, or what happens to those extra points. All she kept saying was that "owners wanted more flexibility" and "owners hate dealing with Interval."

They both admitted thay they were both uncertain of how to deal with these questions, because they were told it wouldn't be a concern to us. The concern definitely rolls uphill!

Lets use a Starwood example to compare this to. At the Sheraton Vistana Villages which is part of the Starwood Club they have a similar situation where an owner at the Sheraton Vistana Villages is given 67,100 "club point" for their unit type and season. They have access to a certain range of weeks which do not matter for this discussion.

SVO also realizes that other owners at other club resorts want to come into this resort for those said weeks. They may require 81,000 from an owner that does not own at the Sheraton Vistana Villages to book one of "those" weeks while still charging the owner of the home resort the 67,100 for the same weeks.

This is what is happening with the Marriott program as well and is not uncommong for points programs. It is basically a way to get more points burned from the books by requiring more points in and at the same time, not giving the home resort owner more points to go "out" with. It is a way to try to balance the program and work towards burning points.

It is very likely that you will see the points requirements change from time to time as the program evolves but this is actually necessary for now to make sure that the program runs as whole as possible. They have the flexibility to make the program more efficient as time goes and they have a better understand of what to expect from owner usage.

So for now....."outside" owner burns more for the same week than the "home" resort owner would, but the "home" resort owner does not have as many points to play with if they should elect to book another resort in the club.

Nature of a new points program.

 

[ArtsieAng]

To the folks who replied and said that they can only trade down because of the point skimming, that is not how it was explained to me. Our salesman said that if you are trading your week for another week, you exchange weeks, not points. Like I said in my previous post: I can trade up or down, it doesn't matter, as long as it is week for week. Points never come into play.

You can trade up or down?

Before you can exchange a week, you must first be able to reserve one. The fact that there is no home resort priority means that unless you are premier status, the odds of you getting a decent trading week have been significantly reduced.........In addition, who knows how things are going to play out with II as far as exchanges go?

 

[rickxylon]

Latest attempt with MVCI service

Welcome!
Please wait while we contact the next available agent...
You are now speaking with Daniel L.!
Daniel L.: Hi! My name is Daniel L.. How may I help you?
Rick : I would like to know why in the new points system I don't get enough points for the weeks I own to trade for the same/comparable resort. If it takes X points to reserve a week, whay don't I get the same number of points?
Daniel L.: Allow me to check on that for you. One moment.
Rick : Thanks
Daniel L.: Essentially the new points system is an option, it is not meant to replace your home week but to add an additional option for travel and exchange.
Daniel L.: If you need to occupy your home resort in season, this option is still available through your ownership.
Daniel L.: Traveling to other resorts, the point values in the system vary by resort and travel seasons, just as before, some may require more points.
Daniel L.: You are allowed to borrow against future years usage to make up differences in point levels.
Rick : That's not what I asked. I am supposed to be able to trade to a comparable resort/time period, etc. with the value of my week. There is a discrepancy in that value. I am given X points but it would take someone more points than that to exchange into that week. That makes no sense to me and it looks like Marriott is being unfair in assigning the 2 different point values. Please answer the question I am asking.
Daniel L.: I am looking at the information you are asking about, to see what you mean by a points discrepancy. One moment.
Rick : Simply pick any week I own. You can see the value given to me. In the Catalogue of all properties you can see the # of points needed for someone to trade in. The trade in points required for the same week I own is greater than the number of points I am given. I do realize that I wouldn't use points to reserve a week in my home resort. However, this is the only way to look at comparability to other properties. It also should clearly be the identical number of points.
Daniel L.: The new points system is based on travel demand. So not all weeks in Platinum timeframe have the same value. I am looking at your Aruba Ocean Club 1 bedroom unit. If you elect to enroll that week for Destination Points, you would receive 2,900 points for it. Most of your Platinum season timeframe, you can get a 1 bedroom for that price or less.
Daniel L.: Only the holiday dates and the month of March show a higher amount needed.
Rick : Not true from what I recall. I believe the Feb weeks (other than President's week) all require more than 2900 points.
Daniel L.: Jan 7 – Feb 3, 2011 and Apr 1 – Apr 21 2011 all show that they require 2,750 points for a week, for 1 bedroom Ocean View units at Aruba Ocean Club.
Daniel L.: Feb 4 – Feb 17 and Feb 25 – Mar 31 of 2011 show 2,975 points needed for the unit, which is only slightly more than your 2,900 point value given for enrolling.
Daniel L.: And for enrolling you are given 800 PlusPoints right away, which essentially corrects that discrepancy.
Rick : So why don't I get 2,975 points, since that is when we have always gone?
Rick : The 800 points are only good for 2011. I am already reserved for 2 weeks there. They won't do me any good every year after that. This is still very unfair.
Daniel L.: And remember, if you are traveling to your home resort, you have the option to reserve as you always have, without enrolling your week into the system.
Daniel L.: This system is meant as an option to help you in traveling to other locations. If you occupy at Aruba in a particular year, then you don't have to elect your week into the Destination Points for that year.
Rick : I'm not concerned about traveling to my home resort. My concern is being able to go to a comparable resort for what my week is worth. If my week is worth 2975 points for someone else to reserve, I should have the same number of points to use for reserving at some other resort.
Daniel L. left the chat.
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Daniel left the chat just like that with no good bye and never answered my questions.

FRUSTRATING!!!!

 

[wa.mama]

As I see it, the ball is in our court. "OUR" meaning the collective group of deeded weeks marriott owners, resale or not. To get the ball rolling, Marriott needs a significant number of owners to join AND convert their units into points. This may be the only time owners have such a significant say in the future of a marriott program.