HGV Max - Diamond Integration Discussion in Owner Update

[Nowaker]

I realize it was just this month's "once in a lifetime" opportunity

You don't know that.

 

[Mongoose]

I (current HGVC owner) took the bait and bought in within the grandfathering period. I'm hoping HGV Max will give me more meaningful access to the DRI inventory over the longer term. I realize it was just this month's "once in a lifetime" opportunity, but the investment wasn't huge. Assuming HGV Max ends up being desirable, I don't foresee a cheaper way of getting in.

Duplicate

 

[Mongoose]

I (current HGVC owner) took the bait and bought in within the grandfathering period. I'm hoping HGV Max will give me more meaningful access to the DRI inventory over the longer term. I realize it was just this month's "once in a lifetime" opportunity, but the investment wasn't huge. Assuming HGV Max ends up being desirable, I don't foresee a cheaper way of getting in.

What were you promised vs what was in the contract?

 

[PigsDad]

What were you promised vs what was in the contract?

I can answer that: nothing. With that said, do I think HGV will grandfather recent purchases into to "Max" (or whatever it may be called)? Probably. But I suspect after all of the dust settles, there will be less expensive ways to join "Max" vs. rushing to buy a retail week now. Of course, everything about this program is conjecture, as nothing has officially been released or announced.

Kurt

 

[jd18]

What were you promised vs what was in the contract?

Promised all my HGV investment would be grandfathered into HGV Max. I would receive an email on April 4th and only need to click "opt in". That's about it other than a lot of paperwork and legal stuff that no one understands. Not sure what I actually trust and anytime you make a purchase with a timeshare organization like HGV, it is always a gamble. My best interest and their best interest are NEVER going to be the same thing. My bet was that I would want to be in as an HGV Max member, and that this was my least cost option. Whether either of those bets are true, only time will tell. I know they (HGV) are smarter than me on the timeshare business. My job is to ensure that I am the smart one about what works for me. Wish me luck!

 

[jd18]

I can answer that: nothing. With that said, do I think HGV will grandfather recent purchases into to "Max" (or whatever it may be called)? Probably. But I suspect after all of the dust settles, there will be less expensive ways to join "Max" vs. rushing to buy a retail week now. Of course, everything about this program is conjecture, as nothing has officially been released or announced.

Kurt

You are absolutely correct Kurt. "Less expensive ways" is really the only discussion point (assuming HGV Max is worth it to you in the first place).

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

I (current HGVC owner) took the bait and bought in within the grandfathering period. I'm hoping HGV Max will give me more meaningful access to the DRI inventory over the longer term. I realize it was just this month's "once in a lifetime" opportunity, but the investment wasn't huge. Assuming HGV Max ends up being desirable, I don't foresee a cheaper way of getting in.

"I realize it was just this month's "once in a lifetime" opportunity" . . . I think that a more accurate description would be "once in a lietime". . . (No offence intended, jd18)

 

[Bbmom1989]

What is considered not much of an investment? We went to the meeting, being with Diamond, and was offered the grandfather in for 10,000 point purchase which came out to $40,000. We initially agreed and have now rescinded. I am just not comfortable with the whole process right now.

"I realize it was just this month's "once in a lifetime" opportunity" . . . I think that a more accurate description would be "once in a lietime". . . (No offence intended, jd18)

 

[GMan82]

What is considered not much of an investment? We went to the meeting, being with Diamond, and was offered the grandfather in for 10,000 point purchase which came out to $40,000. We initially agreed and have now rescinded. I am just not comfortable with the whole process right now.

$40k sounds like a normal sale rather than something with the express purpose of grandfathering you into this yet undisclosed program. They’re using this new HGV Max as a sales tactic pretty much everywhere. It’s the topic du jour.

 

[dkern1]

Did they explain to you how many points you need to own in order to be at the HGV Max level? We attended an update in February at Parc and mainly they concentrated on us acquiring additional points to have us reach Max, but they could not give us a clear answer on the specifics of Max and if Max was necessary to access these Diamond Resorts? Truthfully the price was not too bad compared to other pitches and they offered us a lot of Bonus points, but we said no. We did buy a VIP package so our pricing would be locked in just in case this was a better option price-wise then what we may get offered in the future to access Max.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

What is considered not much of an investment?

Few timeshare purchases - and none from developers - are an "investment", at least in financial terms. An investment means that you expect a monetary return that provides a rate of return on your capital outlay. That doesn't happen with timeshare.

The rationale to buy a timeshare is as a tool to facilitate vacation and travel. Only in that sense can it be considered an "investment", in the same way that a gym membership can be considered an investment in your health and well-being.

 

[HGVC Lover]

Few timeshare purchases - and none from developers - are an "investment", at least in financial terms. An investment means that you expect a monetary return that provides a rate of return on your capital outlay. That doesn't happen with timeshare.

The rationale to buy a timeshare is as a tool to facilitate vacation and travel. Only in that sense can it be considered an "investment", in the same way that a gym membership can be considered an investment in your health and well-being.

Well said and so true......we have a find who sales HGVC's and they see it simply as selling time and nothing more......even though that is not how they pitch it to the buyers. I like the gym metaphor....good one!!

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Where else on the planet can a salesperson describe a program with no details, no written benefits and a disclaimer from the corporation and people still buy?

 

[jd18]

For personal reasons, I will stick by my use of the word "investment". Gym metaphor is accurate.

 

[youppi]

Few timeshare purchases - and none from developers - are an "investment", at least in financial terms. An investment means that you expect a monetary return that provides a rate of return on your capital outlay. That doesn't happen with timeshare.

The rationale to buy a timeshare is as a tool to facilitate vacation and travel. Only in that sense can it be considered an "investment", in the same way that a gym membership can be considered an investment in your health and well-being.

You may consider a timeshare as an investment over a long period of time when you travel all the time to resort with a high rental cost vs your MF+exchange fees.
Example:
2 weeks of vacation in a 2 bdrm at a Marriott's resort in Maui would cost probably a minimum of 2x$3,000=$6,000 as rental price.
1 week non Hawaii 4 bdrm LO (2x 2 bdrm) timeshare with annual MF + 2x II exchange fees: $2,000.
So, an annual investment of $2,000 gives a Return On Investment (ROI) of 200% ($4,000) (pay $2,000, get $6,000 in value, save $4,000) when the 4 bdrm LO (2x2 bdrm) is exchanged for 2 weeks in a 2 bdrm Marriott's Maui or any resorts somewhere else with an equivalent rental cost of 2x$3,000.

Even if the timeshare is purchased from the developer at a cost of $30,000, it may be considered as an investment over 10 to 20 years because of the big annual saving that can recover the money lost between the purchase cost ($30,000) vs the selling cost ($1) after 20+ years.

If you compare investing a single $30,000 lump sum at 7% per year + spending $6,000 for 2 weeks of vacation in the 2 bdrm Marriott's Maui every year vs purchasing a timeshare not in Hawaii of a 4 bdrm LO at $30,000 from the developer and investing every year the $4,000 saved then after 10 years both investors are equal ($59,014 vs $59,134) and after 20 years the renter has less money in his account than the timeshare owner ($116,090 vs $175,460).

spend -> get
Investor 1 (renter) after 20 years: $30,000 + 20x$6,000 -> $116,090 - income tax + 40 weeks of vacations
Investor 2 (ts owner) after 20 years: $30,000 + 20x$2,000 + 20x$4,000 -> $175,460 - income tax + 40 weeks of vacations + a timeshare ($1 market value)

 

[HGVC Lover]

You may consider a timeshare as an investment over a long period of time when you travel all the time to resort with a high rental cost vs your MF+exchange fees.
Example:
2 weeks of vacation in a 2 bdrm at a Marriott's resort in Maui would cost probably a minimum of 2x$3,000=$6,000 as rental price.
1 week non Hawaii 4 bdrm LO (2x 2 bdrm) timeshare with annual MF + 2x II exchange fees: $2,000.
So, an annual investment of $2,000 gives a Return On Investment (ROI) of 200% ($4,000) (pay $2,000, get $6,000 in value, save $4,000) when the 4 bdrm LO (2x2 bdrm) is exchanged for 2 weeks in a 2 bdrm Marriott's Maui or any resorts somewhere else with an equivalent rental cost of 2x$3,000.

Even if the timeshare is purchased from the developer at a cost of $30,000, it may be considered as an investment over 10 to 20 years because of the big annual saving that can recover the money lost between the purchase cost ($30,000) vs the selling cost ($1) after 20+ years.

If you compare investing a single $30,000 lump sum at 7% per year + spending $6,000 for 2 weeks of vacation in the 2 bdrm Marriott's Maui every year vs purchasing a timeshare not in Hawaii of a 4 bdrm LO at $30,000 from the developer and investing every year the $4,000 saved then after 10 years both investors are equal ($59,014 vs $59,134) and after 20 years the renter has less money in his account than the timeshare owner ($116,090 vs $175,460).

spend -> get
Investor 1 (renter) after 20 years: $30,000 + 20x$6,000 -> $116,090 - income tax + 40 weeks of vacations
Investor 2 (ts owner) after 20 years: $30,000 + 20x$2,000 + 20x$4,000 -> $175,460 - income tax + 40 weeks of vacations + a timeshare ($1 market value)

View attachment 49751

View attachment 49752

Oops........I think I just accidentally stepped in a time share presentation......

 

[dkern1]

Where else on the planet can a salesperson describe a program with no details, no written benefits and a disclaimer from the corporation and people still buy?

Exactly! We kept saying we want to see something written; we don't buy something without first knowing what we are buying. We told them that we wanted printed material that was a complete guideline on what HGV Max actually is. They kept waffling and couldn't give us a clear answer so we said no thank you.

 

[PigsDad]

Exactly! We kept saying we want to see something written; we don't buy something without first knowing what we are buying. We told them that we wanted printed material that was a complete guideline on what HGV Max actually is. They kept waffling and couldn't give us a clear answer so we said no thank you.

And yet many people are buying / upgrading based on nothing except the FUD being spread by the sales staff. It just baffles the mind...

Kurt

 

[NiteMaire]

You may consider a timeshare as an investment over a long period of time when you travel all the time to resort with a high rental cost vs your MF+exchange fees.

l think of it as cost avoidance.

Oops........I think I just accidentally stepped in a time share presentation......

[Salesman #2 walks in the room]
In April/May 2019 we spent back-to-back weeks in 2BR Marriott units on Oahu (KoOlina mountain view) and Kauai (Waiohai ocean view). We followed it up in September with a week on Maui in a 1BR Westin (WKORV partial ocean view - don't know the exact view category). For lodging, we spent approximately $2,900 in total for the 3 weeks (including all exchange fees). It's a little more if you amortize the $3,500 combined purchase price of the 2 units we exchanged. I searched Marriott online for the same rooms/dates, and those 3 weeks in the same units would have cost $11,500! We couldn't afford it if we didn't own timeshares.

Bringing it back to the HGV Max: We'll take a look at the cost to join HGV Max, and determine if the potential cost avoidance is more the fee to join. I don't think it will be. DeX has HGVC inventory. If HGVC continues to appear in DeX, it won't be worth the fee to join. Even if HGVC inventory is removed from DeX, I highly doubt it'll be worth it to join...unless the fee is ridiculously low (not counting on it). As I mentioned before, we used DeX to exchange into The Grand Islander by HGVC starting April 8th. If they offer an "update", we just may take them up on the offer to see what they pitch to join. I'll have to convince DW since she typically refuses to attend any update sales presentation.

 

[tschafe]

Did an owners update at a resort yesterday and this is what I got.

To start I'm Diamond Platinum with 61,000 points. If I do absolutely nothing I will still be able to book at all existing DRI properties. However you buy into HGV Max, with the table below (they wouldn't let me have a copy but snuck a picture) I will gain access to the HGV portfolio. As a legacy owner, I would have to make a new purchase of 4,000 points bringing my points balance to 65,000 and they will move all 65,000 points to HGV Max. The downside is the inflated point value of $5 a point that I can't get them to budge on, so this would cost $20,000 to move all points. There's an additional benefit I did find out about, HGV Max will let me convert points at a 25x1 value into Hilton Honors. So technically I would have the options to use 1,625,000 Hilton honors points every year.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Thanks for sharing. Wow that's a lot of Hilton Honor points! I can see why that would be a benefit to Diamond owners to get more value out of your Diamond investment. (We already get it with HGVC but we don't get that many points.)

I find it amazing how quickly HGVC is moving on this program. The MVC/Vistana integrated program is just now trickling out after several years of "announcement coming." Perhaps because MVC felt some competition from HGV to get moving?

 

[SmithOp]

We would need to know the annual maint on 65k points to assess the conversion to HH value, it's got to be a hefty sum.

Sent from my Lenovo 10e using Tapatalk

 

[BingoBangoBongo]

Did an owners update at a resort yesterday and this is what I got.

To start I'm Diamond Platinum with 61,000 points. If I do absolutely nothing I will still be able to book at all existing DRI properties. However you buy into HGV Max, with the table below (they wouldn't let me have a copy but snuck a picture) I will gain access to the HGV portfolio. As a legacy owner, I would have to make a new purchase of 4,000 points bringing my points balance to 65,000 and they will move all 65,000 points to HGV Max. The downside is the inflated point value of $5 a point that I can't get them to budge on, so this would cost $20,000 to move all points. There's an additional benefit I did find out about, HGV Max will let me convert points at a 25x1 value into Hilton Honors. So technically I would have the options to use 1,625,000 Hilton honors points every year.


View attachment 50167

If you don’t mind sharing, what are the MFs on your Diamond points?

 

[Mowogo]

And yet many people are buying / upgrading based on nothing except the FUD being spread by the sales staff. It just baffles the mind...

Kurt

My parents did the same on the Vistana side buying into trading in a Florida developer purchase for Sheraton Flex Retail a few years ago. And plenty of people who never heard of TUG have done the same. We have to remember that TUG is not the target market of timeshare sales. We are the people they tolerate because we pay maintenance fees and are the people that do some defending of timeshares themselves.

 

[Mowogo]

Thanks for sharing. Wow that's a lot of Hilton Honor points! I can see why that would be a benefit to Diamond owners to get more value out of your Diamond investment. (We already get it with HGVC but we don't get that many points.)

I find it amazing how quickly HGVC is moving on this program. The MVC/Vistana integrated program is just now trickling out after several years of "announcement coming." Perhaps because MVC felt some competition from HGV to get moving?

I’ve noticed that, and for the family holdings the MVC/Vistana integration is getting me much more excited But then that is because it actually makes Sheraton Flex at elite ownership pretty strong.