HGV Max - Diamond Integration Discussion in Owner Update

[pedro47]

This is why we follow Warren Buffett, chairman and CEO of Berkshire Hathaway.
These are his words and a direct quote: "We employ decent and talented people - NO JERKS."' In 8 words, Warren Buffett reveals a crucial truth most people never quit believe.

Timeshare sale people are a total difference breed.IMHO

 

[elysium5]

T


That is pretty infuriating, especially since you are Elite - which means you bought at least 14,000 (pre 60% inflation) points RETAIL. That is at least $50,000 (and perhaps upwards of $100,000) that you have committed to HGVC. For the sales people to be dismissive of this level of commitment in order to squeeze out more $$$ is ridiculous.

Sean

You go to a timeshare presentation. They tell you that the prices of hotels go up over time (true) and you can avoid this inflation buy buying a timeshare program now for only $20,000

5 years later

You go to an owner's update. "We created a new program. Your old deed is now worthless. You need to pay $20,000 for new deeds. You can then avoid all future hotel price inflation"

10 years later

...

I feel like this might be an intentional way to get more money out of us?!

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Ha. I don't know if this was HGV or another developer but remember the pitch for "Vacation 401k?...aka "buy this now and you will have inexpensive retirement accommodations..." - Of course they never tell you that MFs suffer from inflation too.

With that said, I was just pricing out rooms at Elara in Vegas using club points and it is a good deal compared to renting off Hilton.com or other hotel sites. Hotel prices have skyrocketed.

 

[escanoe]

Another thing I wonder is if someone makes a developer purchase in the future, will the HGV Max enrollment transfer on the resale market. I almost care more about that (hoping it transfers) than what the buy-in price is.

I would almost quit reading new posts on this thread if there was a promise to have a new thread when we have real, factual information from HGV on HGV Max.

 

[magmue]

... pricing out rooms at Elara in Vegas using club points and it is a good deal compared to renting off Hilton.com or other hotel sites. Hotel prices have skyrocketed.

I fear we will all have sticker shock come December when we see our MFs for 2023.

 

[dayooper]

Ha. I don't know if this was HGV or another developer but remember the pitch for "Vacation 401k?...aka "buy this now and you will have inexpensive retirement accommodations..." - Of course they never tell you that MFs suffer from inflation too.

With that said, I was just pricing out rooms at Elara in Vegas using club points and it is a good deal compared to renting off Hilton.com or other hotel sites. Hotel prices have skyrocketed.

Last summer, we booked a 3 bedroom at Elara Monday - Saturday (first week in August). I periodically checked the price on Hilton.com. That room would have cost us $8000 about month before we were to arrive. Then it was gone. When we booked it on February, it was $5500. Never would have paid either price, but with our points, it was $855 (cost of the points x $0.16 MF’s and pro-rating my dues). That’s just a wee bit better!

 

[brp]

Luxor can be had for about $35/day on a weekday. Just sayin'

Cheers.

 

[alexinorlando]

Luxor can be had for about $35/day on a weekday. Just sayin'

Cheers.

Yes plus a $35 a night resort fee + $30 a night parking +13.5% hotel tax rate on top of all that and don’t forget the $8 bottles of water and no mini fridge or not even a microwave.

Timeshare me please!

 

[dayooper]

Luxor can be had for about $35/day on a weekday. Just sayin'

Cheers.

Can a Luxor 3 bedroom with a full kitchen and free parking be had for $35 a night? I think $171 a night is pretty good for that room.

 

[brp]

Yes plus a $35 a night resort fee + $30 a night parking +13.5% hotel tax rate on top of all that and don’t forget the $8 bottles of water and no mini fridge or not even a microwave.

Timeshare me please!

Well, first, we don't drink the bottles even for free to save on plastic waste. Tap is fine.

Second (and this would not apply to all, of course) - MGM Gold (from Hyatt status) waives the resort fee. And we don't have a car in Vegas. So under $40 a night - really very cheap.

But, even with the fees, it's still a whole lot less than the paid rate at Elara. Of course, that's what the points are for

Cheers.

 

[elysium5]

Ha. I don't know if this was HGV or another developer but remember the pitch for "Vacation 401k?...aka "buy this now and you will have inexpensive retirement accommodations..." - Of course they never tell you that MFs suffer from inflation too.

With that said, I was just pricing out rooms at Elara in Vegas using club points and it is a good deal compared to renting off Hilton.com or other hotel sites. Hotel prices have skyrocketed.

Joking aside, right now hotel price inflation is going through the roof. MFs should be limited to the rising costs of expenses

So buying the right timeshare should save you money in the long run

 

[elysium5]

Last summer, we booked a 3 bedroom at Elara Monday - Saturday (first week in August). I periodically checked the price on Hilton.com. That room would have cost us $8000 about month before we were to arrive. Then it was gone. When we booked it on February, it was $5500. Never would have paid either price, but with our points, it was $855 (cost of the points x $0.16 MF’s and pro-rating my dues). That’s just a wee bit better!

Also with timeshare, I find myself booking better rooms. I would never pay rack rate for a 3 bed property, but with timeshare I can justify it

 

[dougp26364]

Last summer, we booked a 3 bedroom at Elara Monday - Saturday (first week in August). I periodically checked the price on Hilton.com. That room would have cost us $8000 about month before we were to arrive. Then it was gone. When we booked it on February, it was $5500. Never would have paid either price, but with our points, it was $855 (cost of the points x $0.16 MF’s and pro-rating my dues). That’s just a wee bit better!

When you look at MF cost only this is true. If you factor in the original cost (varies between resale/developer et…) and the very real time value of money, the picture isn’t as pretty.

Let’s just take $20,000 and divide by 10 years. Now you have $2,000 plus you’re MF cost of $855, or $2,855. Still a good deal. But if you’d invested that $20,000 even reasonably wisely, you’d have a gross of $40,000 to $50,000. The cost goes up to between $4,855 and $5,855. Of course this is assuming you bought in at $20,000. If you bought resale, the numbers look a LOT better and you’re still ahead of booking direct. If you bought retail you’re more likely to have spent greater than $30,000 and things look much worse.

 

[dougp26364]

Also with timeshare, I find myself booking better rooms. I would never pay rack rate for a 3 bed property, but with timeshare I can justify it

I don’t believe I’ve ever paid rack rate for a hotel room

 

[mabrand]

It is hard to book the DRI two top Virginia Beach Oceanaire resort next the Hilton Garden Inn on the beach front. I am DRI platinum member and can book 14 month in advance. But I could hardly find summer week. (If I find one, I would grab it when I see it.). The fixed week owners have priority. Lots of the deeded fixed week owner never join DRI and hold on to their fixed week. Oceanaire is close to Hilton standard. We goes there often in the summer. You can see the resort in Hilton.com (with note: coming soon).


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Agree with your assessment on trying to get into Diamond's Virginia Beach properties. Just spent three nights down at Ocean Beach Club (we are also a DRI platinum member) where they held the room keys "hostage" until they finished trying to get us to do an update! We will no longer do any updates.

 

[dayooper]

When you look at MF cost only this is true. If you factor in the original cost (varies between resale/developer et…) and the very real time value of money, the picture isn’t as pretty.

Let’s just take $20,000 and divide by 10 years. Now you have $2,000 plus you’re MF cost of $855, or $2,855. Still a good deal. But if you’d invested that $20,000 even reasonably wisely, you’d have a gross of $40,000 to $50,000. The cost goes up to between $4,855 and $5,855. Of course this is assuming you bought in at $20,000. If you bought resale, the numbers look a LOT better and you’re still ahead of booking direct. If you bought retail you’re more likely to have spent greater than $30,000 and things look much worse.

Yup, that's where I'm at. I'm all resale. I can look at it a couple of ways. I can amortize the cost of the deed ($6000 total on my first) throughout my ownership, or I can use my first 2 trips and call it even. Those trips (Myrtle Beach and Hilton Head) more than made up for the cost of the deed plus the MF's for those years. We are just now breaking in our newest purchase ($4000 total for a 2 bedroom platinum at the Boulevard) so we will be "underwater" for this year, but our Hilton Head reservations (2 units) should bring us up into the positive again.

I would never pay the rack rate shown on the Hilton website, we just wouldn't go or have alternate accommodations. We never traveled much before our ownership as we had a hard time with smaller hotel rooms so we just wouldn't go. We rented cabins in Northern Michigan (hit and miss on quality) or even renting a travel trailer (not right for our family, too many "city folk" in our household) and never found the right way. We just didn't vacation much. Our resale ownership allows us to travel as a family to great locations to have great vacations.

My son is joining a college bowling team this coming fall and one of their tournaments is in Vegas (he will probably be on JV as a freshman so he might not go) and I will be comparing open season to the deals I can get from the resorts. My guess is they will be staying at South Point as that's where the bowling alley they hold all of the tournaments are. I am very spoiled for room size now and am actually dreading a hotel room so I just might book a 1 bedroom open season (if available) for my stay.

 

[Eric B]

Just spent three nights down at Ocean Beach Club (we are also a DRI platinum member) where they held the room keys "hostage" until they finished trying to get us to do an update!

Sure makes me want to cough up something extra in fees in order to be able to book into DRI resorts. Sign me up!

 

[elysium5]

I don’t believe I’ve ever paid rack rate for a hotel room

There are some times where it is worthwhile. Often I find it better to book 1 year early, rather than wait for a sale

 

[1Kflyerguy]

Ha. I don't know if this was HGV or another developer but remember the pitch for "Vacation 401k?...aka "buy this now and you will have inexpensive retirement accommodations..." - Of course they never tell you that MFs suffer from inflation too.

With that said, I was just pricing out rooms at Elara in Vegas using club points and it is a good deal compared to renting off Hilton.com or other hotel sites. Hotel prices have skyrocketed.

I have heard the 401V pitch from both Hilton and Marriott. Of course the big problem with this approach is that as hotel room rate increase, the hotel chains increase the points required to book that room as well. I don't remember the last time the timeshare companies increased the conversion ratio to covert timeshare points to hotel points...

 

[GMan82]

I have heard the 401V pitch from both Hilton and Marriott. Of course the big problem with this approach is that as hotel room rate increase, the hotel chains increase the points required to book that room as well. I don't remember the last time the timeshare companies increased the conversion ratio to covert timeshare points to hotel points...

The 401v analogy is laughable. Hilton uses dynamic award pricing; so now that the hotel price and points cost are tied, it represents a devaluation. I believe Marriot is also switching to dynamic pricing, too.

Also, the conversion rates to Honors aren't really worth it. It's what I told the agent today during my NYC owner update. Heck, if they keep throwing 60k honors points at me, they're funding my hotel stays. It was a short 35 minutes, too. I'll probably post about it separately, but she did mention HGV max and suggested a buy-in of $7k for those of us not grandfathered into it via a new purchase between Jan 1 and March 31.

 

[dayooper]

I have heard the 401V pitch from both Hilton and Marriott. Of course the big problem with this approach is that as hotel room rate increase, the hotel chains increase the points required to book that room as well. I don't remember the last time the timeshare companies increased the conversion ratio to covert timeshare points to hotel points...

There was a thread back in 2018 where it was mentioned that it was used by an HGVC salesman. Buying more points to use for HHonors or any of the rewards (cruises, flights ect) is such a waste of money. So much cheaper to pay with cash.

 

[brp]

There was a thread back in 2018 where it was mentioned that it was used by an HGVC salesman. Buying more points to use for HHonors or any of the rewards (cruises, flights ect) is such a waste of money. So much cheaper to pay with cash.

Definitely HGVC. We've heard it from them at least once

Cheers.

 

[pedro47]

DRI, maintenance fees are already higher than Hilton Grand Vacation Club.IMHO

 

[ccwu]

DRI, maintenance fees are already higher than Hilton Grand Vacation Club.IMHO

Agree. DRI MF is about $0.19 per point. HGV is variable. I am paying 0.12 per point for the new points. But the front end cost when purchased is much higher. We bought both from developers. The DRI is pure points. HGV is deed, in order to get the highest points platinum season with smallest premier villa (MF is per square ft) you pay premier price in the front. I think in the long run you average out. There is very few premier HGV on the resale market.


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[Nowaker]

Another thing I wonder is if someone makes a developer purchase in the future, will the HGV Max enrollment transfer on the resale market. I almost care more about that (hoping it transfers) than what the buy-in price is.

Same here. I wonder how this will work. And I'm afraid only "new" deeds will be HGV Max eligible. That is - existing ClubPoints from "old" deeds can only book you into "old" HGVC properties, while MaxPoints from "new" deeds can book you to both "old" HGVC and "new" DRI properties. Which will make the whole sales pitch true on paper (need deed gets you access to new inventory!!!) but false in its spirit (you now acquired 1,600 old / 2,560 new points Elara deed with *bleep* MF-per-point for $15k, and you can't even get a week in 2 BR with that because you only have 1,600/2,560 MaxPoints? welp!). If that turns out to be true, I can't imagine how mad folks who purchased "new" deeds will be. And hopefully there is a one-time fee to enroll an "old" deed in new points. If the price is reasonable, I would consider enrolling a deed or two in Max. Just enough to get access to one or two week at DRI resorts per year.