HGV Max - Diamond Integration Discussion in Owner Update

[elysium5]

I'm pretty new to the timeshare game. But it seems like every company creates a new system every 5 years and then tells owners, they 'need to pay $x to get access to this new system' or their current units will be worthless

 

[dioxide45]

That is kind of how it goes. Not sure if it is every five years. For some it is perhaps every 10. Truth is your current customer is your best future customer. They were able to convince you once to buy, so they can repackage the product a little and get you to buy again. Or get you to "upgrade".

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I'm pretty new to the timeshare game. But it seems like every company creates a new system every 5 years and then tells owners, they 'need to pay $x to get access to this new system' or their current units will be worthless

This. A reason why I prefer deeded weeks with points attached to the deed (HGVC, Vistana Mandatory resorts e.g. Westin Kaanapali South)

I am curious, for DRI owners that upgraded from deeded weeks to the DRI points trust. In hindsight, was it worth it? or would you be better off today with your deeded week?

 

[brp]

I'm pretty new to the timeshare game. But it seems like every company creates a new system every 5 years and then tells owners, they 'need to pay $x to get access to this new system' or their current units will be worthless

I'll give credit to DVC here. When they changed rules they grandfathered peeps who owned before the rule changes and they made no claims that not buying something new would diminish what we had- it would simply limit the future. For example, they recently built new resorts and resale owners could not trade into those (unless you bought a resale there, of course). But we could still do the same things within the original resorts that existed when we first bought, with no diminution.

Yeah, they're doing things to make more money (they are a publicly-traded company and have a responsibility toward shareholders after all). But they don't play the "you'd better give us money or else you may lose what you have" games.

And, for DVC, direct purchase for smaller contracts actually makes sense since resale prices have actually gone up.

Cheers.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Good point @brp. DVC is perhaps the exception to every timeshare rule. (Resale value goes up, they use points trusts, you can easily rent out your points.) It's nice that they don't play these games. Wish I had bought in when they were less expensive.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I'm pretty new to the timeshare game. But it seems like every company creates a new system every 5 years and then tells owners, they 'need to pay $x to get access to this new system' or their current units will be worthless

There are killer responses to that.

First, why should I buy that new product when history shows that in five or ten years you will bring out a new product that will devalue what I just bought?

Second, why should I buy anything from a company when that company has a history of devaluing and stripping value from the things it sells to buyers?

 

[dayooper]

There are killer responses to that.

First, why should I buy that new product when history shows that in five or ten years you will bring out a new product that will devalue what I just bought?

Second, why should I buy anything from a company when that company has a history of devaluing and stripping value from the things it sells to buyers?

This 1000x over. Just like when they say you better buy developer over resale. Why should I buy something that I will be able to get rid of if I need to?

 

[elysium5]

That is kind of how it goes. Not sure if it is every five years. For some it is perhaps every 10. Truth is your current customer is your best future customer. They were able to convince you once to buy, so they can repackage the product a little and get you to buy again. Or get you to "upgrade".

In a way, this is a good thing. Hear me out..

Timeshare has great benefits, but there's lots of learning involved. You need to be able to spot a good deal from a dud deal, and do your research. Because it's a difficult strategy, not many people get involved. If more people got involved in timeshare resale, then the good deals would go

Getting a hotel credit card and earning Bonvoy/Hyatt points is easy. So everyone does it. The companies then devalue your points and make them harder to use

 

[Mowogo]

In a way, this is a good thing. Hear me out..

Timeshare has great benefits, but there's lots of learning involved. You need to be able to spot a good deal from a dud deal, and do your research. Because it's a difficult strategy, not many people get involved. If more people got involved in timeshare resale, then the good deals would go

Getting a hotel credit card and earning Bonvoy/Hyatt points is easy. So everyone does it. The companies then devalue your points and make them harder to use

I would also say there are a lot fewer resources to learn about maximizing timeshare ownership compared to miles and points. Most timeshare information people get in the mainstream is either “timeshares are scams” or put out there by timeshare companies themselves.

I don’t think the good deals would go just because the timeshare market is much smaller. Some may get slightly harder to access, but the very nature of timeshares ensures that the game is ever evolving. I got in resale specifically after discovering timeshares served my needs well for an annual trip (Maintenance fees plus exchange fee are less than 2 nights at Excalibur during certain events in Vegas). I even just booked a 2 bedroom for NYE for a full week a block from the strip for less than NYE at some of the strip resorts.

 

[Mowogo]

There are killer responses to that.

First, why should I buy that new product when history shows that in five or ten years you will bring out a new product that will devalue what I just bought?

Second, why should I buy anything from a company when that company has a history of devaluing and stripping value from the things it sells to buyers?

Because people believe in the concept of sunk cost, especially when talking about a lot of retail owners.

 

[elysium5]

Because people believe in the concept of sunk cost, especially when talking about a lot of retail owners.

It also helps to fly you to a great hotel for a low price. Then have a slick salesperson give you a 'great offer'

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Because people believe in the concept of sunk cost, especially when talking about a lot of retail owners.

Yep. You can lead a man to data, but you can't make him think.

 

[ccwu]

Good point @brp. DVC is perhaps the exception to every timeshare rule. (Resale value goes up, they use points trusts, you can easily rent out your points.) It's nice that they don't play these games. Wish I had bought in when they were less expensive.

I think it is the demand and supplies. When HGV and dRI keep expand the resorts and added more points to the pool, and when people want to dump it from resale, lots of supplies in the market. DVC does not have many resorts, and more buyers. Do just like the current housing market, people are willing to pay more to compete the limited points available.


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[dougp26364]

There are killer responses to that.

First, why should I buy that new product when history shows that in five or ten years you will bring out a new product that will devalue what I just bought?

Second, why should I buy anything from a company when that company has a history of devaluing and stripping value from the things it sells to buyers?

Ive used this logic many times to end a presentation

 

[Mowogo]

I think it is the demand and supplies. When HGV and dRI keep expand the resorts and added more points to the pool, and when people want to dump it from resale, lots of supplies in the market. DVC does not have many resorts, and more buyers. Do just like the current housing market, people are willing to pay more to compete the limited points available.


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Disney has long had a reality distortion field, however in design they are a company that tends to get a lot of the details right, or at least have enough charm to overpower the negatives. I’ve loved Exchanging into Saratoga Springs, but honestly can’t justify the costs of joining DVC.

 

[matsci2]

We went to a presentation at the Elara in Vegas yesterday and they insisted that we would lose out on any benefits of HGV MAX unless we exchanged or bought new timeshare, with the cheapest option being a week at the Elara for $13k and $676 mf/yr and 3520 pts/yr. If we didn't, they told us, the price to get MAX would skyrocket after the April rollout. We just upgraded to Elite in November last year, so it felt like we were being screwed.

I then called HGVC directly because neither the sales rep or his manager could provide any details, though they assured us that they knew, but were not authorized to tell us. This was a lie, according to the HGVC main office, as the program details have not been finalized nor released. Just say no to this sales tactic.

 

[pedro47]

We went to a presentation at the Elara in Vegas yesterday and they insisted that we would lose out on any benefits of HGV MAX unless we exchanged or bought new timeshare, with the cheapest option being a week at the Elara for $13k and $676 mf/yr and 3520 pts/yr. If we didn't, they told us, the price to get MAX would skyrocket after the April rollout. We just upgraded to Elite in November last year, so it felt like we were being screwed.

I then called HGVC directly because neither the sales rep or his manager could provide any details, though they assured us that they knew, but were not authorized to tell us. This was a lie, according to the HGVC main office, as the program details have not been finalized nor released. Just say no to this sales tactic.

This is from a Hilton sales person. LOL

 

[CalGalTraveler]

IMHO...I find the Vegas and Florida HGVC sales offices to be more aggressive than others pulling guilt tactics and cheesy sales tricks. I find the presentations at other locations tend to be more professional similar to MVC presentations we've attended. All tell half-truths but they won't bar the door and harass you if you say not interested.

All HGVC fine if you can say no and know the half-truths. I cannot compare to Diamond tactics because I never attended Diamond presentations.

 

[Cyberc]

WhenEver I go on a presentation, I always assume that whatever I hear is 100% BS.

 

[Smclaugh99]

T

We went to a presentation at the Elara in Vegas yesterday and they insisted that we would lose out on any benefits of HGV MAX unless we exchanged or bought new timeshare, with the cheapest option being a week at the Elara for $13k and $676 mf/yr and 3520 pts/yr. If we didn't, they told us, the price to get MAX would skyrocket after the April rollout. We just upgraded to Elite in November last year, so it felt like we were being screwed.

I then called HGVC directly because neither the sales rep or his manager could provide any details, though they assured us that they knew, but were not authorized to tell us. This was a lie, according to the HGVC main office, as the program details have not been finalized nor released. Just say no to this sales tactic.

That is pretty infuriating, especially since you are Elite - which means you bought at least 14,000 (pre 60% inflation) points RETAIL. That is at least $50,000 (and perhaps upwards of $100,000) that you have committed to HGVC. For the sales people to be dismissive of this level of commitment in order to squeeze out more $$$ is ridiculous.

Sean

 

[GMan82]

T


That is pretty infuriating, especially since you are Elite - which means you bought at least 14,000 (pre 60% inflation) points RETAIL. That is at least $50,000 (and perhaps upwards of $100,000) that you have committed to HGVC. For the sales people to be dismissive of this level of commitment in order to squeeze out more $$$ is ridiculous.

Sean

This doesn’t surprise me at all. I bought Elara 8400 pts (old) platinum in Sept 2018. Discovered TUG the slightest bit too late, and resigned myself to making use of a product I’ve now grown to love (and am hoping to expand via resale). Thanksgiving was around the corner and for the after TG period, I managed to get a 3B penthouse unit at Parc Soleil in Orlando. I only had 4 months and didn’t want to spend to save points. Well, I attended an owner update, and mind you was still learning. The sales person after seating me, left to go get my file, and then came back in a huff, doors blasting open “Why didn’t you go straight to Elite? You bought 8400 points! You’re more than halfway there!” She harped and expounded on the benefits of elite. Needless to say, I bought Kohala suites. Thought I was set! Could convert points whenever to Honors etc and never spend a dime at a hotel again.

Boy was I wrong. I rescinded 3 days later. So it doesn’t surprise me that they just wanted to make another sale despite hitting elite so soon. I was 2 months into my first (and big) purchase and they hit me.

 

[Smclaugh99]

This doesn’t surprise me at all. I bought Elara 8400 pts (old) platinum in Sept 2018. Discovered TUG the slightest bit too late, and resigned myself to making use of a product I’ve now grown to love (and am hoping to expand via resale). Thanksgiving was around the corner and for the after TG period, I managed to get a 3B penthouse unit at Parc Soleil in Orlando. I only had 4 months and didn’t want to spend to save points. Well, I attended an owner update, and mind you was still learning. The sales person after seating me, left to go get my file, and then came back in a huff, doors blasting open “Why didn’t you go straight to Elite? You bought 8400 points! You’re more than halfway there!” She harped and expounded on the benefits of elite. Needless to say, I bought Kohala suites. Thought I was set! Could convert points whenever to Honors etc and never spend a dime at a hotel again.

Boy was I wrong. I rescinded 3 days later. So it doesn’t surprise me that they just wanted to make another sale despite hitting elite so soon. I was 2 months into my first (and big) purchase and they hit me.

I have definitely been there. As soon as you become Elite, they hit you with “Elite sucks! You need to be Elite Plus!” Then right after that, “Being Elite is not worth it unless you are Elite Premier!” It’s like becoming more of an exclusive club and there is some psychological appeal. But for the sales people to completely blow off Elite in an effort to promote HGV max, that’s pretty crappy.

Sean

 

[Bbmom1989]

I will be grandfathering in to HGV in April. The question I have is that we have two gift holidays scheduled through Diamond, one in May and one in August. Are there thoughts as to whether Diamond will honor those gift holidays. I am leaning toward no since I will no longer have an investment in Diamond.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I have definitely been there. As soon as you become Elite, they hit you with “Elite sucks! You need to be Elite Plus!” Then right after that, “Being Elite is not worth it unless you are Elite Premier!” It’s like becoming more of an exclusive club and there is some psychological appeal. But for the sales people to completely blow off Elite in an effort to promote HGV max, that’s pretty crappy.

Sean

Who knows? Perhaps HGV Max will be free (or minimal enrollment cost) to Elites and developer purchased deeds. That would be the right thing to do. We won't know for sure until the April program announcement.

 

[dayooper]

Who knows? Perhaps HGV Max will be free (or minimal enrollment cost) to Elites and developer purchased deeds. That would be the right thing to do. We won't know for sure until the April program announcement.

My guess is that Elite Premiere and maybe Elite Plus will be grandfathered. I believe there will be a cost for most, though. Then again, this might give some of those that haven’t given HGVC any sales since the upgraded a reason to. There’s too much money to be made and I think the first quarter has been a bust so far. People weren’t buying because they were worried they would have to buy more to be part of HGV Max. That’s why they started offering the grandfathering of deeds bought after Jan 14.

Whether it’s purchasing a deed or purchasing the membership, most that want to join will have a cost. I believe you absolutely correct in that we all need to just wait until the program is announced. The rumor mill from sales weasels are making owners stressed and angry (just what they want to have happen). Fear of Missing Out is hard at play.