HGV Max - Diamond Integration Discussion in Owner Update

[dioxide45]

Stop going to updates. Stop reading Facebook. Just wait.

Stop reading these threads too?

 

[geist1223]

Stop reading these threads too?

Yes I am done with these threads.

 

[pedro47]

At $295, I’m in. At $500 I’ll think about it. At $1,000 it’s doubtful.

From Hilton’s perspective the price will depend on their goals. If they want members to join to boost the number of owners participating, the cost will be inexpensive. I suspect they’ll believe they have something a lot of members will want and they won’t really care how many join, so it won’t surprise me to see a joiner fee we’ll over $1,000. If that’s the case it’s cheaper for me to stand pat and exchange thru Interval for destinations I want.

Thanks. dougp26364, for your candid input.

 

[brp]

Stop going to updates. Stop reading Facebook. Just wait.

I don't have a Facebook account so we're good there. And, as I mentioned above, stop going to updates for information (as if that were ever useful). Go for perks if they're good enough. That equation has not changed.

Cheers.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@brp is right. After attending countless presentations, I kept seeking whether there was some hidden "special" deal or gems. What I found was that they had corporate minimums e.g. $10,000 - $30,000 (Maui) for an upgrade, their prices are non-negotiable (price lists and the reps/offices are not empowered to negotiate) and that I could always do better spending <$10k for a resale and could keep my existing unit/ points for more vacations (or sell it myself for cash if I wanted to dispose).

With that said, if I owned a dog property that would be difficult to give away, a trade-in may be the way to go so you have something that is easy to dispose of when you are finished. The other reason to go retail is if there is a unicorn unit. My problem is that the unicorns I want have higher minimum upgrades so still better to go resale.

 

[90_Min_Sales_Pitch]

I was just offered HGV Max for $16,000. Since I had just closed on a resale purchase 2 weeks prior, this price seemed absurd. I told the presenter that we'll wait until the Spring for the official details. He claimed that Max was the offer, and $16K was 15 - 20% discounted from the official offer that is coming.

 

[dayooper]

I was just offered HGV Max for $16,000. Since I had just closed on a resale purchase 2 weeks prior, this price seemed absurd. I told the presenter that we'll wait until the Spring for the official details. He claimed that Max was the offer, and $16K was 15 - 20% discounted from the official offer that is coming.

If this is the case (it isn’t), then HGV Max isn’t for me. There have been so many “this is the lowest offer prices” for qualifying purchases that range from $10,000 to $100,000 for a DRI purchase. This is why I don’t go to presentations. The ridiculousness of it all is just too much.

 

[dougp26364]

I’m betting there will be a few pissed off people who literally bought the lies before the official program announcement. Maybe even a couple of lawsuits or complaints to a few state AG’s about the recent sales practices.

 

[dayooper]

I’m betting there will be a few pissed off people who literally bought the lies before the official program announcement. Maybe even a couple of lawsuits or complaints to a few state AG’s about the recent sales practices.

Unfortunately, they all signed the acknowledgment that they weren’t purchasing for HGV Max, but for the deed/points themselves.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I was just offered HGV Max for $16,000. Since I had just closed on a resale purchase 2 weeks prior, this price seemed absurd. I told the presenter that we'll wait until the Spring for the official details. He claimed that Max was the offer, and $16K was 15 - 20% discounted from the official offer that is coming.

Hmm...for $16,000 one could:

a) Rent at least 4 times in DRI locations for a week (assuming $4000/week/Hawaii) and use Hilton points to offset the cost from my credit card points. No obligations.

b) Buy a Diamond Resale for ? $3000 ? all-in and trade via an exchange into the other properties.

We could use the resale 5x+ for that $16000. Assume MF is the same across both alternatives and then give away/deedback when done - conservative estimate.

Perhaps someone else has a better way to analyze this?

If true, this sounds very similar to an unenrolled MVC property playbook. You can trade in II but you don't get the points/short stay benefits. But IMHO...lack of flexibility worth $13,000 savings ($16000 - $3000)

 

[brp]

b) Buy a Diamond Resale for ? $3000 ? all-in and trade via an exchange into the other properties.

Since we currently have lots of HGVC points (and 60% more as of a few weeks ago ), I really need to learn how this exchange thing works. Not sure how easy Poipu and KBC would be with very high flexibility, but worth looking not too long from now and figuring out how this actually works.

Is there a good primer thread on this whole exchange thing that someone knows about, since it's not likely in the HGVC forum?

Cheers.

 

[dougp26364]

Unfortunately, they all signed the acknowledgment that they weren’t purchasing for HGV Max, but for the deed/points themselves.

True enough, but if enough people report the lies being told and a pattern can be established, they can still be held accountable.
I remember a fight I had with a shop owner once. He had my car for repairs, left it on his lot unlocked and the stereo was stolen from it. He pointed to a sign that said, Not responsible…..” At issue was his disregard for taking normal precautions such as locking my car. He did not exercise normal care while my car was in his care, custody and control, and that’s why he lost his case and had to pay the claim.
They can have the legal wording in the contract, but if they break laws in the presentation, and if enough people tell the same story, they can still be held accountable for misrepresentation despite what’s signed.

 

[NiteMaire]

Is there a good primer thread on this whole exchange thing that someone knows about, since it's not likely in the HGVC forum?

Edited to state: The below applies to deeded weeks. You can also use DeX with points. I'm not a points owner so I won't discuss using DeX with points.

I'll provide a basic overview (and look for other threads), but @chemteach and @cindyc could probably give you more info.
DRI assigns tier values to units (1-6 with 6 being the best/highest). I own a 2BR LO at Sedona Summit. Depending on the week I reserve it's either tier 4 (high) or tier 5 (peak) for the full 2BR. If I LO in "Peak" season, 1BR is tier 4 and studio is tier 3. I can then deposit in DeX and have 5 years to exchange.
Within DeX, you perform a search based on specific resort, area, and/or activity (beaches, ski weeks, etc). It's not so much about trade power. You see the available inventory (regardless of tier). If you want a tier 6 week at Poipu, then you book it and pay a tier upgrade fee.

So what would it cost me to exchange my Sedona Summit unit for 2 2BR P@P Ocean View (tier 5) weeks? Presuming I reserve a peak week (which I've been able to do the 3 times I've done it), I'll have a tier 4 and a tier 3:
SS MF: $955
Exchange fee: $298 ($149x2)
Tier upgrade fee: $675 ($225 for 1BR deposit; $450 for studio deposit)
Total: $1928 or $964/week!

2 2BR Garden View/partial ocean view (tier 4):
$1478 or $739 per week ($450 less for upgrade fees since it's a lower tier)


2 2BR Ocean Front (tier 6):
$2378 or $1189/week! ($450 more in total for tier upgrade).

I think there's the DeX guide posted in a sticky in the DRI Forum.
Edit: here's the link for deeded weeks: https://cmsprod.diamondresorts.com/sites/default/files/destination-xchange-guide_6.pdf

 

[NiteMaire]

Not sure how easy Poipu and KBC would be with very high flexibility, but worth looking not too long from now and figuring out how this actually works.

I just realized I didn't answer this above.
With high flexibility, it's extremely easy. Even with very little flexibility, you'd likely find a week. Within DeX, you can search 2 years out. Here's the number of units available for deeded week exchanges at the moment:
P@P: 726
KBC: 1,268

 

[brp]

Thanks for the info. I guess it's still (yet) clear to be how this would apply to using HGVC points to exchange into P@P and KBC. I'd want to use my HGVC points through the exchange (I think they're II now)and get into those properties. I know there are procedures and fees, but I'd want to be using my HGVC points as the primary "payment," plus the fees.

Cheers.

 

[PigsDad]

I was just offered HGV Max for $16,000. Since I had just closed on a resale purchase 2 weeks prior, this price seemed absurd. I told the presenter that we'll wait until the Spring for the official details. He claimed that Max was the offer, and $16K was 15 - 20% discounted from the official offer that is coming.

Was that really just a one-time fee or were you offered an update or purchase of a new deed for $16K, and a non-binding "promise" that you would be enrolled in a program called "HGV Max", which has not yet been defined?

Good job on not falling for the bait.

Kurt

 

[youppi]

Many compare how much they paid to join the Marriott Destination Club and it should be a similar fee to join HGV Max but it cost nothing to Marriott. Marriott built all the resorts, sold almost all the units as deeded weeks and after that they created the points system. The fee to join the Destination Club was pure profit for Marriott.

There are 405k DRI owners and 326k HGV owners = 731k owners
HGV paid $1.4 billions to acquire DRI If I remember.
$1,400,000,000 / 731,000 = $1,915 per owner
So, a fee to join HGV Max under $2,000 would be a miracle if my number are accurate.

 

[dougp26364]

Many compare how much they paid to join the Marriott Destination Club and it should be a similar fee to join HGV Max but it cost nothing to Marriott. Marriott built all the resorts, sold almost all the units as deeded weeks and after that they created the points system. The fee to join the Destination Club was pure profit for Marriott.

There are 405k DRI owners and 326k HGV owners = 731k owners
HGV paid $1.4 billions to acquire DRI If I remember.
$1,400,000,000 / 731,000 = $1,915 per owner
So, a fee to join HGV Max under $2,000 would be a miracle if my number are accurate.

At the moment it’s the closest thing we have for comparison, but you’re correct, it’s not the same.

By comparison, when DRI purchased Sunterra, they charge us $2,995 to join their points program. While I’d love to see a jointer fee of $695 or less, I expect a joiner fee of $2,995 or more.

At this point my gut feeling is Hilton believes they have a hot item a lot of owners will want, and the cost will be higher rather than lower.

 

[dayooper]

At the moment it’s the closest thing we have for comparison, but you’re correct, it’s not the same.

By comparison, when DRI purchased Sunterra, they charge us $2,995 to join their points program. While I’d love to see a jointer fee of $695 or less, I expect a joiner fee of $2,995 or more.

At this point my gut feeling is Hilton believes they have a hot item a lot of owners will want, and the cost will be higher rather than lower.

$3K would be way much for me. Need to know what the membership entails, but that’s too much money just to add resorts that I rarely would go to.

 

[Mowogo]

At the moment it’s the closest thing we have for comparison, but you’re correct, it’s not the same.

By comparison, when DRI purchased Sunterra, they charge us $2,995 to join their points program. While I’d love to see a jointer fee of $695 or less, I expect a joiner fee of $2,995 or more.

At this point my gut feeling is Hilton believes they have a hot item a lot of owners will want, and the cost will be higher rather than lower.

Hilton will think they have a hot item, and the average buyer may fall for it. My concern is how they handle access to resorts being added to HGVC. If I get club access, I’m happy. If I am going to be cut off from new resorts in HGVC (I am fine with no access to HVC) then I start questioning the place of HGVC in my holdings long term knowing current management is trying to put a tighter squeeze than I like.

 

[dougp26364]

$3K would be way much for me. Need to know what the membership entails, but that’s too much money just to add resorts that I rarely would go to.

I agree. When we owned 2 weeks at PoloTowers and DRI bought Sunterra, it made sense for us to pay the $2,995 joiner fee. It gave us easy access to a wealth of resorts and locations we didn’t have easy access into except through external exchange with II. It gave us control to choose the resort, check in date and view. All things we didn’t have with II.

I suspect there are more than a few Hilton owners who find themselves in the same position as we were all those years ago. They feel limited by Hilton’s offerings of destinations and will find the addition of all the DRI destinations attractive. Even if the joiner fee is $5,000, it’s less expensive than starting over in another system or even buying a resale week but having to pay the yearly MF on those purchases.

 

[dougp26364]

Hilton will think they have a hot item, and the average buyer may fall for it. My concern is how they handle access to resorts being added to HGVC. If I get club access, I’m happy. If I am going to be cut off from new resorts in HGVC (I am fine with no access to HVC) then I start questioning the place of HGVC in my holdings long term knowing current management is trying to put a tighter squeeze than I like.

We’ve enjoyed Hilton, but for us, they’re expendable. I don’t believe Hilton or DRI owners need to worry about losing access. That’s a scare tactic spewed by salesmen to get owners to buy more. Over 24 years of timeshare ownership and dozens of presentations, I have yet to see loss of access as a serious issue. I have seen minor issues, but not the cataclysmic apocalypse predicted by sales staff trying to get owners to drop another 15, 25 or 50 thousand dollars.

 

[NiteMaire]

$3K would be way much for me. Need to know what the membership entails, but that’s too much money just to add resorts that I rarely would go to.

The $$ would give me pause as well. It would depend on if/how much the inventory in DeX changes. If inventory stays similar to what I can see now, I have no reason to join; especially considering I can see HGVC units in DeX already. If the inventory I'm most interested in moved to HGV Max, I'd either spend the money to join or divest my soon to be HVC unit.

We’ve enjoined Hilton, but for us, they’re expendable. I don’t believe Hilton or DRI owners need to worry about losing access.

I completely agree with this. There will always be inventory available for exchange. The question is how much/which ones are moved to the new system. As I posted here or another thread, a DRI CSR told me access will not change. I realize no one knows, but it was interesting to hear that from a CSR.

 

[Mongoose]

I'm on the other side - DRI Platinum member (51,500 pts). Just had an owner update in Las Vegas. I can join MAX for a mere $43,000. This includes having to buy an additional 10,000 points. If I don't "join" I was told my inventory choices will be less because Hilton members will have access to the Diamond resorts. I guess time will tell how this plays out.

It’s garbage like this that makes me loath DRI.

 

[Talent312]

Hilton will think they have a hot item, and the average buyer may fall for it.

TS companies like to dig thru existing owners' wallets by selling "enhancements."
The booty from their TS sales isn't enuff anymore, and we're the fish on the line.
.