HGV Max - Diamond Integration Discussion in Owner Update

[CanuckTravlr]

Just to clarify, my understanding is that the "Hilton Grand Vacations Club" (HGVC) locations will remain those already in the HGVC system, plus a select few former DRI locations. Hopefully that includes the Embarc locations, since the latter had a prior relationship with HGVC before their acquisition by DRI.

Most reflagging of Diamond locations will be to "Hilton Vacations Club" (HVC), no "Grand". HGV Inc. in their pronouncements seems to have indicated they have little to no interest in continuing the Diamond brand. Whether they do or not remains to be seen. The highest and most expensive tier, mostly urban, is a third group that already exists, (by) Hilton Club, no "Grand" or "Vacation".

HGV Max will supposedly describe a program that will allow members, formerly on either side, to access at least some locations on the other side. Which ones and at what price will not be known until April. Anything else is just pure speculation and/or wishful thinking.

The claims by the sales weasels notwithstanding, and the fuzziness of the wording on the sales presentation documents, would not entice me to enter into any agreement without a clear understanding of just what I am buying. If it truly ends up being $10K or some other ridiculous requirement, I won't be participating. If it's a few hundred dollars up to maybe a couple thousand, or an annual additional membership fee, then I might very well bite.

I'll wait until the April announcement before I even consider making any decision.

 

[dioxide45]

The only obstacle to slapping Hilton on a resort is the ability to get Hilton to certify that resort with their brand. If it isn't up to Hilton (hotel company) brand standards, then they won't use Hilton Vacation Club or any other name with "Hilton" in it until they do or give the resort some other name. THough it would seem that already Hilton Grand Vacation Club and Hilton Vacation Club are probably two tiers. Not exactly sure what would qualify some resort to be HVC over not being HVC. Perhaps some of the properties we know already will be HVC tells us something about what they would need to bring other resorts up to in order to bring them in.

They could also simply remove "Diamond" from any of the resorts that don't get rebranded to HGV or HVC. Vistana does this with Vistana Beach Club where it doesn't carry the Westin or Sheraton brand names. THey also did it previously with Lakeside Terrace (or maybe it was Mountain Vista). They could just carry those unbranded resorts along and as they renovate they can get them more in line with being able to carry the Hilton name.

 

[Talent312]

So we may be facing 4-subsystems: bHC, HGVC, HVC and DRI-remnants.
Maybe they could give 'em identifiers like roman numerals - I, II, III & IV.

"Fasten your seatbelts; it's going to be a bumpy night."
-- Bette Davis in "All About Eve" (1950)
.

 

[dioxide45]

So we may be facing 4-subsystems: bHC, HGVC, HVC and DRI-remnants.

"Fasten your seatbelts; it's going to be a bumpy night."
-- Bette Davis in "All About Eve" (1950)
.

But with HGV Max, they all become one system!

 

[CanuckTravlr]

But with HGV Max, they all become one system!

I'm not sure anyone has actually said that, although it would be great if it happened, depending upon the access cost. With respect to HGV Max, based on what I have read so far, it only seems to offer some (or more) access to both sides. I haven't heard anything so far that suggests it would open up ALL locations to access, but we can always hope!

 

[Shmiddy]

$10K? That’s ridiculous.

So I got all this in an online owner update, and she gave us 72 hours to decide. I emailed her back, detailing all the points she made, my understanding of the program and what I would be getting for my upgrade. I asked for her to respond either acknowledging or correcting my understanding. She got back but used the term 'enrollment fee along with a purchase of some sort required' to get in to the Max program after April 4th, but not a specific amount (which she did in the meeting). Waiting for everything to come out in the wash before I decide anything.

 

[pedro47]

I still feel everyone needs to wait for the official and final answers from Hilton. IMHO.

 

[dioxide45]

So I got all this in an online owner update, and she gave us 72 hours to decide. I emailed her back, detailing all the points she made, my understanding of the program and what I would be getting for my upgrade. I asked for her to respond either acknowledging or correcting my understanding. She got back but used the term 'enrollment fee along with a purchase of some sort required' to get in to the Max program after April 4th, but not a specific amount (which she did in the meeting). Waiting for everything to come out in the wash before I decide anything.

Any purchase now will do nothing to help an owner in any new combined system. That is the whole reason for the disclosure show in post #1. They know their sales people are like and they need to cover their tracks. This is why a company should never share any information with their sales staff about any upcoming program changes until they have a new product to sell. Perhaps bring in a few as subject matter experts but overall they shouldn't say anything to sales because they will disseminate it just to make a sale.

 

[pedro47]

Any purchase now will do nothing to help an owner in any new combined system. That is the whole reason for the disclosure show in post #1. They know their sales people are like and they need to cover their tracks. This is why a company should never share any information with their sales staff about any upcoming program changes until they have a new product to sell. Perhaps bring in a few as subject matter experts but overall they shouldn't say anything to sales because they will disseminate it just to make a sale.

What do you called those birds that fly around in sky, when something is dead?
Vultures.
Are these sales person lips moving. Do they know the official and final answers from Hilton.

 

[Mongoose]

All will be reflagged as HGV or Hilton "Grand" (or spun off from the system if they don't meet profit and quality criteria). It sounds like most will be reflagged from Diamond as HGV to support current Diamond members. with Embarc and potentially a select few reflagged as Hilton Grand.

I don’t know about that. Hilton is big on branding. The will use this to expand the number of brands they have while at the same time not damaging hilton with product that aren’t up to Hilton standards.

 

[Yi.Jun]

Currently if any upgrade is done which has a minimum of $40-45k then it will include HGV Max for free is what I heard from HGV. There will be price increase starting April 1st but the exact date is not 100% confirmed...

When I purchased Maui Bay Villa last June, it was $51k for 9300 points. The same deed and points are now at $70K, I cannot believe it is going higher and people are still buying them!

 

[Yi.Jun]

The way it was explained to me was there will be three ownership tiers:
HGVC - you can access all HGVC properties as you do now
Diamond - They can access all of their properties as they do now
HGV-Max - Can access both HGVC and Diamond properties.
For purchases Jan 14-April 4 you get grandfathered in to HGV Max for free, after April 4 a separate 'acquisition fee' would be charged on top of a deed purchase for HGV Max - supposedly in the $10K range, again on top of the cost of the deed.

This is what I heard as well from HGV.

 

[Yi.Jun]

The question I have is how many diamond locations will be re-flagged HGV.

I heard not all 90 DRI properties will be available at once. Some will be remodeled...

 

[Yi.Jun]

I don’t know about that. Hilton is big on branding. The will use this to expand the number of brands they have while at the same time not damaging hilton with product that aren’t up to Hilton standards.

I agree. At same time, do the price increase with re-branding.

 

[pedro47]

This is not about timeshare. Just some off the wall information.
I just found this out their is a Hilton Hotel on the Island of Bimini in The Bahamian.
That island was the last port of called for the last two luxury Crystal's Cruise ships.
Crystal's cruise lines have now declared bankruptcy.

 

[Mongoose]

This is what I heard as well from HGV.

That would be consistent with maintaining separate brands.

 

[Talent312]

[There] is a Hilton Hotel on the Island of Bimini, The Bahamian....

Maybe they'll let you tour the ghost-ships.
----------------------------

Maybe they'll put "by Hilton Vacations" on substandard DRI resorts
in very fine print, and leave off the emblem.
.

 

[pedro47]

Maybe they'll let you tour the ghost-ships.
----------------------------

Maybe they'll put "by Hilton Vacations" on substandard DRI resorts
in very fine print, and leave off the emblem.
.

The two (2) Crystals ships are docked in the Port of Freeport, in the Bahamian.

 

[Kakae]

Thanks for sharing. This sounds vague. Frankly for $26k I could rent a lifetime of Diamond units on Redweek or Hilton.com with zero MF obligation. IMHO...Beyond HGVC there are not many places on the Diamond list that would create usage of $26k for our situation. It would be cheaper to pick up a resale Diamond week.

Did they say that the reason you couldn't automatically participate was because you were resale only? i.e. can people with developer purchases automatically participate? If they require a developer upgrade, that is a non-starter for us. Especially since we already own a developer unit - that would be totally screwing over anyone who purchased developer unit in the past - and I would not be happy about that.

I am an HGV developer owner and I was given the same pitch. I will not be part of HGV Max without repurchase. When I pushed back asking if that was the only way, I was then told that there is going to be a way to access all properties but it will be an additional fee. This has not been completely developed yet. Therefore, my best option would be to upgrade my unit and be part of HGV Max with the purchase.

 

[dayooper]

I am an HGV developer owner and I was given the same pitch. I will not be part of HGV Max without repurchase. When I pushed back asking if that was the only way, I was then told that there is going to be a way to access all properties but it will be an additional fee. This has not been completely developed yet. Therefore, my best option would be to upgrade my unit and be part of HGV Max with the purchase.

LOL! Best for who? The purchaser or the salesman? It’s hilarious they said that your best decision would be to purchase before you have all of the information!

 

[CalGalTraveler]

FYI...participation in broader programs with an additional purchase is how MVC/Vistana tries to monetize their enrollment/points program. At more than a decade offering such programs, only 60% of MVC owners have enrolled in their points program. That means that 40% of deeded owners just use, rent or trade their deeded week in II. This is for owners who had no points options in the past so 60% is a dismal figure IMHO.

The value proposition is worse for deed and points programs similar to Vistana and HGVC in which you can already trade with points. The 40% unenrolled in MVC contains some of the most valuable inventory but the trading program cannot access it e.g. Maui Ocean Club Oceanfront 3 bdrms. Programs where everyone enrolls upfront e.g. HGVC, Vistana are much more fluid and valuable because all the inventory is potentially accessible. FWIW this is why inventory is limited in South Florida, many owners of the best units and weeks don't opt into the HGVC program because they use it or when they don't it is more lucrative to rent it out.

So if they use this selective enrollment method, will one only have access to less desirable units in DRI that opt to enroll? And will it be limited for the first 5 years since it depends on people opting (i.e. paying $10k or more) into the program.

 

[JoeyS]

Went to owner update yesterday...They stated that HGV will be taking control of at least 95 of the most popular DR owned and managed resorts that were in the DR Club. As this happens the Clubs inventory will be taken away and moved into the new HGV Max side of things. Diamond/HGV will be holding owner updates where they will give you the option to move into HGV Max ( i have 16,500 DR pts and they wanted $165,000 to make the switch). As owners make the switch then DR Club inventory will be move to HGV Max. This will leave less inventory to choose from as a DR member. But the maintenance fees will not go down, they will go up because there are now less DR members to fund the left over inventory. So if you though it was difficult to book before then it will likely get worse. think of it this way... a resort has an allocated number of rooms for DR owners that equal, lets say 1 million pts. As DR members move to HGV Max their DR points get moved to HGV Max thereby leaving less availability. HGV is already taking some allocation of room from resort and refurbishing them to their standard.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@JoeyS Time will tell. They are giving the same argument to Vistana Deed owners to switch to Westin or Sheraton Flex which is their trust points program. So far the loss of inventory has been negligible in Vistana after several years of Flex.

If you own a weekly DRI deed at a resort and room type you like (own what you use) such as Pt at Poipu or KBC you will be unaffected because your room will always be there as long as you don't trade it out for a trust. IMHO...this is one reason I avoid points trusts because there are many shell games that can be played with the underlying trust deeds in terms of what gets transferred out/traded for lower value deeds.

Like @brp we may opt for a resale Poipu deeded week once the dust settles if the price and MF are right.

 

[dayooper]

Went to owner update yesterday...They stated that HGV will be taking control of at least 95 of the most popular DR owned and managed resorts that were in the DR Club. As this happens the Clubs inventory will be taken away and moved into the new HGV Max side of things. Diamond/HGV will be holding owner updates where they will give you the option to move into HGV Max ( i have 16,500 DR pts and they wanted $165,000 to make the switch). As owners make the switch then DR Club inventory will be move to HGV Max. This will leave less inventory to choose from as a DR member. But the maintenance fees will not go down, they will go up because there are now less DR members to fund the left over inventory. So if you though it was difficult to book before then it will likely get worse. think of it this way... a resort has an allocated number of rooms for DR owners that equal, lets say 1 million pts. As DR members move to HGV Max their DR points get moved to HGV Max thereby leaving less availability. HGV is already taking some allocation of room from resort and refurbishing them to their standard.

I really wish people would stop going to sales presentations until everything is announced. The crap coming out of these is as bad as I can remember. Is there truth to these sales discussions? Who knows, but we, nor the sales weasels don’t know anything of how this will work. HGVC is supposed to release the merger info on April 1st, but we may get a glimpse of what is to come on March 1st when HGVC has their investor call. Until then, everything out there is just speculation from one group to another.

The ownership base has soooooo much drama right now. I never was super involved in the Facebook groups, but the anger echo chamber is getting to the point where many of those groups are unreadable. The misinformation is at a all time high and people are so angry they are convinced they are right. Not a healthy way and sales weasels are taking advantage.

 

[magmue]

The misinformation is at a all time high and people are so angry they are convinced they are right.

Not unlike modern politics.