HGV Max - Diamond Integration Discussion in Owner Update

[dayooper]

Thanks for sharing. Wow that's a lot of Hilton Honor points! I can see why that would be a benefit to Diamond owners to get more value out of your Diamond investment. (We already get it with HGVC but we don't get that many points.)

I find it amazing how quickly HGVC is moving on this program. The MVC/Vistana integrated program is just now trickling out after several years of "announcement coming." Perhaps because MVC felt some competition from HGV to get moving?

It looks like the MVC will integrate Vistana with not a whole lot of cost. The same can’t be said for HGVC and Diamond, at least that’s what the rumors look like.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

It looks like the MVC will integrate Vistana with not a whole lot of cost. The same can’t be said for HGVC and Diamond, at least that’s what the rumors look like.

Not true. Only Vistana retail buyers get low/free conversion. Resale must buy something to requalify their unit into the progam. They are rewarding those who purchased retail and making resale buyers pay if they want to play.

 

[PigsDad]

Not true. Only retail buyers get low/free conversion. Resale must buy something to requalify their unit into the progam. They are rewarding those who purchased retail and making resale buyers pay if they want to play.

Where have you seen that documented? Or did you just verbally hear it from a salesperson?

Kurt

 

[tschafe]

We would need to know the annual maint on 65k points to assess the conversion to HH value, it's got to be a hefty sum.

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Maintenance is about $0.19 a point currently. So if I did the upgrade 65k points would be roughly $12,350 give or take a few dollars.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

The MVC/Vistana program has been soft launched. Discussion here

UPDATE: Marriott sales now has the merger details and they are allowed to discuss them with owners.

• Here are some answers for you from my source: I didn't choose the questions to answer, nor do I have any info about this topic myself, and I posted the response verbatim, so you'll have to take the answers below at face value. • My source has agreed to do one more round of questions, for...

tugbbs.com

 

[PigsDad]

Maintenance is about $0.19 a point currently. So if I did the upgrade 65k points would be roughly $12,350 give or take a few dollars.

So that $12,350 in MFs would get you 1,625,000 Hilton Honors points. In our experience, most rooms at a Hampton Inn have been running an average of 40,000 points per night at the places we have stayed lately, such as Phoenix, AZ, Fort Lauderdale, FL, Prescott, AZ. So 1,625,000 Honors points equates to ~40 nights, or $304/night. Of those recent stays, I don't think one was over $200 cash rate.

To me, the Honors conversion is a losing proposition.

Kurt

 

[dayooper]

Not true. Only retail buyers get low/free conversion. Resale must buy something to requalify their unit into the progam. They are rewarding those who purchased retail and making resale buyers pay if they want to play.

Of course they are. Since 2010, MVC has always made resale pay to play in their points system. That is expected. The issue is that it looks as if HGVC is making even retail purchasers pay to play in HGV Max. If they don’t and I bought retail after January 14th because I was told it is required to be part of the new membership, that would be a travesty. I also don’t get why some of you seem giddy at the fact that resale owners could be made to purchase retail to play in HGV Max. It will further deprecate the current ownership, including new retail purchases if there are more restrictions placed upon resale, especially if any new HGVC builds are only available to HGV Max members (and that has been reported to have been said in owners updates).

 

[PigsDad]

The program has been soft launched. Discussion here:

UPDATE: Marriott sales now has the merger details and they are allowed to discuss them with owners. | Page 2 | Timeshare Users Group Discussion Forums (tugbbs.com)

Oh, you were referring to the Marriott merger -- I thought you were talking about the HGV merger. My bad.

Kurt

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I could see how that could be taken out of context. I was responding to a prior post on MVC. I added "MVC/Vistana" to be clear

 

[tschafe]

So that $12,350 in MFs would get you 1,625,000 Hilton Honors points. In our experience, most rooms at a Hampton Inn have been running an average of 40,000 points per night at the places we have stayed lately, such as Phoenix, AZ, Fort Lauderdale, FL, Prescott, AZ. So 1,625,000 Honors points equates to ~40 nights, or $304/night. Of those recent stays, I don't think one was over $200 cash rate.

To me, the Honors conversion is a losing proposition.

Kurt

I definitely wouldn't be using this to convert all points. It could come in handy at the end of a year, if I have left over points I can't use. Instead of rolling them into the stupid DRI Member appreciation account that limits to core resorts, I could roll them into Hilton Honors of use at any hotel. Definitely more appealing than the current program.

 

[dayooper]

I definitely wouldn't be using this to convert all points. It could come in handy at the end of a year, if I have left over points I can't use. Instead of rolling them into the stupid DRI Member appreciation account that limits to core resorts, I could roll them into Hilton Honors of use at any hotel. Definitely more appealing than the current program.

The issue is, if the conversation rules are the same in HGV Max as HGVC, you would only get the 25:1 rate if you convert your full points by Dec 31 of the previous year. Obviously, they could change the system to encourage HGV Max.

On a side note, I wonder if the 25:1 ratio will be offered to HGVC members that enroll into the new membership.

 

[Mongoose]

We would need to know the annual maint on 65k points to assess the conversion to HH value, it's got to be a hefty sum.

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It would have to be between $8-10K. I nice back up option, but not really a good use of MFs. I have done this several times with HICV when I had left over points.

 

[Mongoose]

[/QUOTE]

So that $12,350 in MFs would get you 1,625,000 Hilton Honors points. In our experience, most rooms at a Hampton Inn have been running an average of 40,000 points per night at the places we have stayed lately, such as Phoenix, AZ, Fort Lauderdale, FL, Prescott, AZ. So 1,625,000 Honors points equates to ~40 nights, or $304/night. Of those recent stays, I don't think one was over $200 cash rate.

To me, the Honors conversion is a losing proposition.

Kurt

Agree. However its a nice back up option vs having the points expire.

 

[GT75]

There's an additional benefit I did find out about, HGV Max will let me convert points at a 25x1 value into Hilton Honors. So technically I would have the options to use 1,625,000 Hilton honors points every year.

That conversion rate doesn't seem fair if HGVC owners are only getting 1:16 rate to make our pt value on the same playing field as DRI members.

 

[GT75]

aintenance is about $0.19 a point currently. So if I did the upgrade 65k points would be roughly $12,350 give or take a few dollars.

Wow, so DRI MFs are almost twice my HGVC MFs for equivalent number pts. Now I know that some HGVC owners have even lower MFs than myself (of course some have higher also)

 

[dougp26364]

Wow, so DRI MFs are almost twice my HGVC MFs for equivalent number pts. Now I know that some HGVC owners have even lower MFs than myself (of course some have higher also)

exactly why we deeded back to DRI our two Polo Towers weeks. Considerably more expensive without the quality.

My question is, will Hilton bring DRI resorts MF’s under control? Maybe even lower them or, at the very least, not increase them for a few years.

 

[dayooper]

exactly why we deeded back to DRI our two Polo Towers weeks. Considerably more expensive without the quality.

My question is, will Hilton bring DRI resorts MF’s under control? Maybe even lower them or, at the very least, not increase them for a few years.

Was increase of funds going to the resort or to DRI corporate?

 

[Mowogo]

exactly why we deeded back to DRI our two Polo Towers weeks. Considerably more expensive without the quality.

My question is, will Hilton bring DRI resorts MF’s under control? Maybe even lower them or, at the very least, not increase them for a few years.

My concern is that some of the bad aspects of DRI become a part of HGVC, especially when I’m seeing relatively good news for the MVC/Vistana integration.

 

[dougp26364]

Fortunately, we only own one 2 bedroom platinum unit with Hilton, and they have generally maintained some value o the resale market. Worse case scenario we sell out.

 

[GT75]

My question is, will Hilton bring DRI resorts MF’s under control? Maybe even lower them or, at the very least, not increase them for a few years.

I am also wondering what HGV will do. Time will tell for we will have to wait until MFs come out for next year. That will give us our first indication of which way this is expected to go.

 

[BingoBangoBongo]

How does the relationship work between the HOA's and corporate in setting/raising MF's?

 

[Mowogo]

How does the relationship work between the HOA's and corporate in setting/raising MF's?

HOA's are mostly corporate puppets unless the owners make a concentrated effort to overthrow the board. Corporate team proposes and provides break down, puppet board approves using provided numbers.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Could this be a scenario? Maybe, but I see it as a remote possibility and will take many years. I wouldn't lose sleep over it. Sell, give away or deedback, if it becomes an issue.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

How does the relationship work between the HOA's and corporate in setting/raising MF's?

Almost always there is a bloc of units that are owned by Corporate. Unsold inventory or foreclosures/defaults that the resort or trust routes back to corporate for resale. Corporate has the voting rights associated with that unit, and they vote it as a bloc.

Given the low turnout in board elections and the number of owners who will simply vote to retain the existing management, the bloc owned by corporate does not have to be large for corporate to control the board. I would guess as little as 5% ownership would be enough to essentially control the board.

 

[Nowaker]

HOA's are mostly corporate puppets unless the owners make a concentrated effort to overthrow the board.

The problem of overthrowing the board by regular owners is HGVC may elect to remove a resort from its network, therefore stop providing ClubPoints for a given deed. I cannot quote it, or cite a specific source, but I saw it in deed restrictions of one of my properties. As I recall it, it sounded like "If original developer loses control of the board, HGVC may elect to exclude the resort from the Club". (If anyone can cite a source, please do!)

Unlike in trust points systems like MVC and Hyatt, membership in HGVC is not permanent - what's permanently granted is your stake in real estate. It makes some sense to diversify HGVC deeds just in case one goes under.