[Closed - new thread started] Will Hawaii Open by [OCTOBER???] [Please use this thread for all Hawaii Coronavirus discussions]

[csodjd]

The Governor saying there is no timetable is not helpful for the State, the economy, or tourism. There ought to be tentative dates so workers and employers can be planning for reopening, with a caveat of “subject to change”.

If the State truly has no timetable it doesn't speak well for their recovery or their preparedness for opening up the economy. Training of staff, reopening and adjusting of facilities takes time. Review of supply chains and restocking of restaurants as well all take time. Hawaii shouldnt just announce a week ahead of time they way they did with hair dressers. If there is a detailed plan it will give comfort and assurances to employees as well as employers. The longer the uncertainty the more jobs that wont comeback, bankruptcy, lack of financing and foreclosure on hotels will follow.

I agree. A target date, a goal. Not stated as a certainty, but the date they are working toward. Setting goals is the key to most success. No different here. There's no sense of urgency if there's no date by which it ought to get done, and no accountability, even to oneself.

 

[csodjd]

I would only fly soon if I had the entire row to myself and purchased the row in front and behind (or was in the first/last row).

Putting aside that obviously nobody is going to do that (they might as well charter a private plane), is the reason for being worried about the row in front of you a paranoia, or is there a good reason I can't think of? And same for your row across the aisle? What is the reasoning there?

I really do think we have to interject some sense of pragmatism and reality and not allow unfettered fear to control us. Reasonable is the target. If we assume that 10% of the entire US population is CURRENTLY infectious -- which is probably an outrageously high assumption, at least 10x reality, given the nationally declining rate of new infections -- that means 90% are not. More likely 99% are not. If we assume about 70% of those that ARE infected have symptoms, that means about 30% of 10%, or 3 in 100, may be traveling. More likely it is 30% of 1%, or 1 in every 300. If I have "close" contact to perhaps 2 or 3 people, and they are wearing a mask, I'd consider my risk to be near zero. Probably about the risk of dying in my car on the way to the airport. But even if the 2 or 3 people are not wearing a mask, its still very unlikely any of them are infectious. And, even in the quite remote chance I was infected, there's a 30% chance I'll never even know, and an 80+% chance I'll just have a bad flu.

This is not February. Today we have working knowledge. Testing. Reduced transmission from masks and social distancing. Awareness of symptoms. And a declining number of cases (nationally).

Yes, there is risk. But I stand by my view that I largely control that low risk at this point. If I allowed fear to regulate me, I'd never fly. That is a risk I have NO control over.

 

[Ken555]

Putting aside that obviously nobody is going to do that (they might as well charter a private plane), is the reason for being worried about the row in front of you a paranoia, or is there a good reason I can't think of?

I’ve had people in front stand and talk, etc. Don’t want that.

And same for your row across the aisle? What is the reasoning there?

Nope, didn’t say that. Only one side.

I really do think we have to interject some sense of pragmatism and reality and not allow unfettered fear to control us.[etc]

Unfettered fear is a different beast entirely.

This is not February. Today we have working knowledge. Testing. Reduced transmission from masks and social distancing. Awareness of symptoms. And a declining number of cases (nationally).

Um...yeah, no. We may be aware and abide by social distancing and wearing masks, but not everyone does. We have a vocal minority on TUG that seem to advocate this by their statements, thank goodness this isn’t prevalent. But it does make the news.

Yes, there is risk. But I stand by my view that I largely control that low risk at this point. If I allowed fear to regulate me, I'd never fly. That is a risk I have NO control over.

It’s not an all or nothing proposition, and I certainly didn’t mean that there was...give me a little credit, eh? Bottom line you can’t control the factors you mention on a plane, and there are others that come into play as well which can cause inadvertent violation. But if you’re comfortable, go for it. I’m not there, and I won’t be until we have much more standardized regulations, trust in the travel industry (there’s no way I would trust an airline company for my health beyond operating the plane itself, nor a cruise line, etc), and significant progress toward containment.


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[cman]

Y'all, I'm just going to let Hawaii do what "they" think is what's best for them. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from where I sit, Hawaiians are better prepared to decide "their" fate than I am. Just sayin...They know what the unemployment rate is, they know the economic damage they'll likely suffer. They know. So, I guess what I'm saying, is that the reminders of the consequences comes off as a little condescending (you know if you need to hear this). Not sure what the sentiment is on the islands right now, but my guess is that "my" vacation is not a top priority. Neither is yours.

 

[gdrj]

Y'all, I'm just going to let Hawaii do what "they" think is what's best for them. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from where I sit, Hawaiians are better prepared to decide "their" fate than I am. Just sayin...They know what the unemployment rate is, they know the economic damage they'll likely suffer. They know. So, I guess what I'm saying, is that the reminders of the consequences comes off as a little condescending (you know if you need to hear this). Not sure what the sentiment is on the islands right now, but my guess is that "my" vacation is not a top priority. Neither is yours.

When there is no timetable, when Lt Gov is saying something different than Governor, when Governor announces 1 thing and Mayors are unaware and Governor has to clarify his announcement 24 hours later, when elected officials encouraged tourism growth and now want to reduce it, when there does not seem to be a realistic plan, when they say testing may be required BUT tests are not readily available. I would say the elected officials are not prepared to decide their fate.

The State has thus far relied on temporary Federal $ to help support its People. Is my vacation a priority to them, absolutely not. However the longer they go without a strategy being communicated to their citizens and to businesses the longer the economic impact. Vacations obviously impact tourism. For Hawaii the lead time in planning is much longer. May people including myself have made adjustments to our plans and will be spending $$ elsewhere. Airlines, hotels, restaurants, car rentals, UBER, jewelry stores, clothing, gift shops, tours, grocery stores, ABC stores that all employ Hawaiians will suffer. The businesses will not need as many employees. The sooner they communicate a plan the quicker the economy restarts.

 

[csodjd]

Is my vacation a priority to them, absolutely not.

It should be though, because your dollars into their economy are important.

 

[csodjd]

I’ve had people in front stand and talk, etc. Don’t want that.

Nope, didn’t say that. Only one side.

Unfettered fear is a different beast entirely.

Um...yeah, no. We may be aware and abide by social distancing and wearing masks, but not everyone does. We have a vocal minority on TUG that seem to advocate this by their statements, thank goodness this isn’t prevalent. But it does make the news.

It’s not an all or nothing proposition, and I certainly didn’t mean that there was...give me a little credit, eh? Bottom line you can’t control the factors you mention on a plane, and there are others that come into play as well which can cause inadvertent violation. But if you’re comfortable, go for it. I’m not there, and I won’t be until we have much more standardized regulations, trust in the travel industry (there’s no way I would trust an airline company for my health beyond operating the plane itself, nor a cruise line, etc), and significant progress toward containment.

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There is plenty of room for different people to have different risk/benefit views, and different levels of fear or concern. I think you are entirely right to want to avoid travel or flying, because it makes you uncomfortable right now. I'm less uncomfortable. I feel I can adequately protect myself now and, in fact, will NOW probably be much safer on a plane than I was a year ago when I did NOTHING to avoid infection from others and anyone could have anything OTHER than COVID and spread it to me.

 

[csodjd]

Y'all, I'm just going to let Hawaii do what "they" think is what's best for them. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from where I sit, Hawaiians are better prepared to decide "their" fate than I am. Just sayin...They know what the unemployment rate is, they know the economic damage they'll likely suffer. They know. So, I guess what I'm saying, is that the reminders of the consequences comes off as a little condescending (you know if you need to hear this). Not sure what the sentiment is on the islands right now, but my guess is that "my" vacation is not a top priority. Neither is yours.

I get what you are saying, but trusting government to do what is best is, well, not always a good idea. Government is capable of remarkable failures of judgment at times.

I think there is a distinction to be made between "Hawaiians" and "Hawaiian government." The opinions and needs of the former should drive the latter, not the other way around. Sometimes governments forget who is the dog and who is the tail. Remember, OUR vacations keep about a quarter-million Hawaiians employed. I'll bet our vacations are a top priority to many of them! I think it is important for government officials to feel the need, the pressure, from those affected -- for the unemployed to openly express their need and desire to become employed as quickly as possible, and for the travelers to openly express that they WANT to come and are ready to do so when given the opportunity. That's what drives governments to act.

 

[Yellowfin]

I also wonder how many other people and businesses depend on the money spent by visitors even if they are not counted directly in the tourism industry.

 

[csodjd]

I also wonder how many other people and businesses depend on the money spent by visitors even if they are not counted directly in the tourism industry.

Well, I did lose some money to a couple of local guys playing golf in "The Game" in Maui last year.

That aside, I'm not sure the details are that important because the big picture isn't really debatable. Hawaii and a lot of its residents depend heavily or entirely on tourism dollars. They need to bring tourism back safely, but also without unnecessary delay.

 

[slip]

but also without unnecessary delay.

This thread is like most about the virus. People go back and forth but it all comes down to how you define the last piece of your statement above and in this instance it doesn’t matter. It’s up to Governor Ige. We can only wait and see what he decides.

 

[Yellowfin]

With the new CDC data showing that the fatality rate is actually around 0.2-0.3%, Hawaii may have a harder time to justify extending the measures for much longer.

New CDC data on COVID-19

MONTREAL, May 25, 2020 /CNW Telbec/ - The national American agency in charge of public health, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC...

markets.businessinsider.com

 

[csodjd]

With the new CDC data showing that the fatality rate is actually around 0.2-0.3%, Hawaii may have a harder time to justify extending the measures for much longer.

New CDC data on COVID-19

MONTREAL, May 25, 2020 /CNW Telbec/ - The national American agency in charge of public health, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC...

markets.businessinsider.com

Yes, but to be fair to Hawaii, I think the issues is more about medical capacity than fatality rate. One way to be sure the fatality rate goes way up is to have more really sick people than you have beds and ventilators for.

 

[Ken555]

There is plenty of room for different people to have different risk/benefit views, and different levels of fear or concern. I think you are entirely right to want to avoid travel or flying, because it makes you uncomfortable right now. I'm less uncomfortable. I feel I can adequately protect myself now and, in fact, will NOW probably be much safer on a plane than I was a year ago when I did NOTHING to avoid infection from others and anyone could have anything OTHER than COVID and spread it to me.

Perhaps. For ~10 years when traveling I’ve been carrying disinfectant wipes and always wiping down the tray table, arm rests, headrest, seatbelt, screen and air vent. Not uncommonly, my neighbor would see me doing this and I would offer them one, too. I’ve done the same on trains. Many years ago I read a study that showed airplane tray tables were “disgusting”.

Airlines don’t properly clean their planes. So, now that we have a pandemic suddenly we are going to trust them to do so? Perhaps. I think many businesses that only gave courtesy attention to cleaning (much more so to the marketing of their cleaning than the cleaning itself) will do better now out of necessity since so many of us will be watching much more closely.


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[cybernaut]

Unfortunately, there is a strong undercurrent here among locals that they are glad to see the tourist gone and they don't want them back. Also, they would like to keep short term rentals illegal.

They feel that they have their island back and would like to see the rentals convert to long term housing. The state and local governments are playing to this group and are in no hurry resume tourism. They preach safety, but there are almost no remaining cases here. We are not even allowed to travel inter-island.

Lee Cataluna: Focus on getting better rather than getting back | Honolulu Star-Advertiser

Some people are saying — carefully, as though bracing for blowback — that Hawaii is actually greatly improved with so few tourists here crowding every little corner of the islands and pushing their way around.

www.staradvertiser.com

 

[lynne]

Unfortunately, there is a strong undercurrent here among locals that they are glad to see the tourist gone and they don't want them back. Also, they would like to keep short term rentals illegal.

They feel that they have their island back and would like to see the rentals convert to long term housing. The state and local governments are playing to this group and are in no hurry resume tourism. They preach safety, but there are almost no remaining cases here. We are not even allowed to travel inter-island.

Lee Cataluna: Focus on getting better rather than getting back | Honolulu Star-Advertiser

Some people are saying — carefully, as though bracing for blowback — that Hawaii is actually greatly improved with so few tourists here crowding every little corner of the islands and pushing their way around.

www.staradvertiser.com

I am one of those locals who lives in a community where there are a number of illegal short term rentals. These are very large homes with pools and in some instances tennis courts that cater to groups of 12 or more. When visitors come into our neighborhood with 4 vehicles and have a party till you drop attitude, it makes living here intolerable. The noise level and basic disregard for being in a neighborhood where people live here full time is not what we expected when we moved here.

There are vacation rentals that are specifically in resort areas that are legal and it is spelled out in the association's cc&r's that vacation rentals are allowed with the proper licensing. These rentals are set up for visitors and should be open again when tourism opens up again. Even now, there are vacation rentals being habitated during the ban as non-essential so that can give you an idea of how some people feel about protecting the residents of the state during this time.

The majority of the people who are renting illegally, purchased these properties as second homes and do not live here. They make quite a bit of income off these large homes and care for our neighborhood about as much as the large groups of people renting. They are in it for the money. I am not sad to see these rentals shut down for good.

I look forward to having visitors back but they should be in legal dwellings and not 'work around' the laws. There are many ways to check if the vacation rental that someone wants to book is legal.

 

[DeniseM]

Folks - If you want this thread to stay open, please avoid the "soap boxing."

 

[DeniseM]

BTW: I love all of the aspirational propositions in this thread for opening Hawaii to tourism, but my money's on Hawaii not opening until they have the monitoring equipment installed in the airports. I know that's not what you want to hear - but it's the logical conclusion. YMMV

 

[slip]

BTW: I love all of the aspirational propositions in this thread for opening Hawaii to tourism, but my money's on Hawaii not opening until they have the monitoring equipment installed in the airports. I know that's not what you want to hear - but it's the logical conclusion. YMMV

That’s certainly what it seems like. Hopefully, we will hear more as that approaches. It sounds like they are trying to make that happen in September but they aren’t committing yet.

I heard Mayor Caldwell say yesterday that he thought Oahu could open up to inter-island flights in early June but he didn’t want to speak for the other Mayors. That would be a good first hurdle and get some planes in the air again.

 

[csodjd]

That’s certainly what it seems like. Hopefully, we will hear more as that approaches. It sounds like they are trying to make that happen in September but they aren’t committing yet.

I heard Mayor Caldwell say yesterday that he thought Oahu could open up to inter-island flights in early June but he didn’t want to speak for the other Mayors. That would be a good first hurdle and get some planes in the air again.

As a Californian that just visits Hawaii, it's hard for me to understand any restrictions on travel between islands at this point. It baffles me a bit as to what they are looking for before allowing that inasmuch as there hasn't been a case anywhere in Hawaii in several days (about 4). Seems they could eliminate that quarantine on a moment's notice.

 

[csodjd]

BTW: I love all of the aspirational propositions in this thread for opening Hawaii to tourism, but my money's on Hawaii not opening until they have the monitoring equipment installed in the airports. I know that's not what you want to hear - but it's the logical conclusion. YMMV

It's not so much any disagreement with that, along with pre-flight testing. It's more the lack of any communication from those in charge about when they hope to have that done, or that they are even working on it.

It's pretty clear hotels, etc., will need at least 30, and as much as 60 days notice to be ready to open. If it will take 60 days to get the airport how they want it, it would not be a bad thing for anyone to say, this is what we're doing, here's the timeline we hope to move forward on, and we think we should be able to start seeing some tourism by X if nothing unexpected happens. If X were Sept 1, that's 90+ days, and it gives everyone, including hotels that need 60 days or so, a working date, even if it's not a date-certain.

 

[DeniseM]

Hmmm - 10 days ago the State Legislature voted to spend $37 million on airport testing and said it would take AT LEAST 2 months - that seems pretty clear to me. At this point in time, it seems like it would be premature to announce a date, since I doubt if the equipment has even landed on island yet. YMMV

 

[slip]

As a Californian that just visits Hawaii, it's hard for me to understand any restrictions on travel between islands at this point. It baffles me a bit as to what they are looking for before allowing that inasmuch as there hasn't been a case anywhere in Hawaii in several days (about 4). Seems they could eliminate that quarantine on a moment's notice.

People can argue that all they want but it won’t change that we have to wait for the Governor to lift the restrictions. they have vaguely mentioned July so this statement yesterday by the Mayor does make it seem that things are changing and fairly quickly. Sounds like I may be able to get a haircut this weekend if I can find an opening.

 

[DeniseM]

A change in topic, but interesting:

Promoter, alcohol vendor under investigation after large, illegal beach parties broken up on Oahu | Honolulu Star-Advertiser

The Honolulu Liquor Commission and law enforcement agencies are investigating two businesses that may have organized and profited from massive parties that violated COVID-19 emergency rules, liquor, and permitting laws, over Memorial Day weekend at Waimea Bay Beach Park and Kaena Point State Park.

www.staradvertiser.com

Cut to the chase: The "promoter and vendor" were not licensed to sell alcohol and had no event permit, and they were *military personnel, as were many of the participants. I suspect they are in trouble with both Hawaii and the military. OUCH!

*They used their Schofield barracks address as ther LLC business address!

*IMNSHO - this kind of behavior is why Hawaii is taking it slow.

*It will be interesting to see if any new C-19 cases come out of these beach parties.

 

[Yellowfin]

It is unclear to me how testing can be accomplished upon landing without creating huge crowds on the airport. To me it makes more sense to demand testing 2-3 days before departure and only ask those that do not have a valid certificate to be tested in Hawaii.