[Closed - new thread started] Will Hawaii Open by [OCTOBER???] [Please use this thread for all Hawaii Coronavirus discussions]

[DeniseM]

I honestly didn't know it was a US Territory - thank you for clarifying.

*Now that I think about it, I did know this at one time, but I lost that brain cell.

 

[Ken555]

So how does an island like St Thomas open June 1st and Hawaii stays closed? I have to believe ST Thomas is as much or more vulnerable than Maui but they are ready to open to visitors. If the trends continue I have to believe Hawaii will have to open back up in July or face pressures to do so if these other islands open up without consequences.

This should be expected when we don’t have a national plan. Local government tolerances are different for many reasons.


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[Ken555]

I wouldn't jump to conclusions yet. There's going to be a lot of pressure on government officials to be careful, but not paranoid. This entire crisis is now about 3 months old. September is still another 3+ months away. We all have a time distortion because it feels like this has been going on forever. But it's really "only" been 3 months. I can't imagine that if all the rest of, really, mostly of the world is back operating and allowing tourists in, that Hawaii will still be saying no given the enormous detrimental impact it has and will have on so many Hawaiians. Remember that the Federal unemployment bonus money ends at the end of July. At that point a lot of people will start getting rather desperate. Seems to me a Sept target date is being very conservative and allowing a lot of time, especially given that Hawaii has as little problem as any state in the US.

My step-daughter is scheduled to get married there in November. Our only concern is the allowable size of a gathering. Not terribly concerned that we won't be able to go without quarantine.

We are so off topic... but since Denise hasn’t moved this yet I’ll respond. (@DeniseM?)

There’s a big difference between wanting to reopen and being able to do so safely. And if we have a second wave (which it seems most experts seem to anticipate) then Hawaii needs to be prepared for the eventual spread even with mitigation efforts like quarantine and pre-flight testing. I’m hopeful their efforts will contain any imported infection, but they must be prepared for it...both in terms of supplies, staff, and hospital beds but also that their visitors and residents understand this possible outcome.

It is distressing that so many believe financial concerns will push them to open.

For myself, I’m still not planning on traveling anywhere anytime soon. I’m barely leaving home as it is, tho unlike many (it seems) on TUG I’m in an urban area and the risk is doubtless higher for me than others here.

I did just check WKORV availability for January as I would enjoy planning a trip then, and it is available, but I suspect that may still be too soon to travel (for me).


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[klpca]

Interesting blog post. I'm not sure why but I feel slightly offended at it's tone. The nice thing about it is I've been to Hawaii - several times -and don't need to go back. I'd love to and I don't mind being responsible, don't mind being tested, etc. More than willing to do those things. But, I do mind basically being told that tourists will eventually be allowed back but only if they're willing to spend a lot of money. We've pumped our fair share of money into Hawaii when we go there and have done so willingly, not because we feel like our arm is being twisted to do so. Hawaii may be off the table for us for a long time (or forever). I don't know, maybe I just got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

I totally agree with you. My family has been on the islands since forever (back to Hawaiian "royalty" on my paternal grandmothers side) and I have relatives there who are very active in the Hawaiian sovereignty movement, so I have heard many discussions over the years. I absolutely respect the culture and do my best to understand, but I will always be who I am, someone who was born and raised in California. I take after my mom's side of the family in coloring so I don't look Hawaiian. But because I look haole and sound haole (i.e. no pidgin), I have been treated as a haole tourist a few times. We have been given incorrect directions when asking for help, and have been challenged while hiking on public property. It's not me honestly - I try so hard to be polite and respectful but we have had the misfortune of running in to some rude folks while visiting. My dad who looks very Hawaiian even had a little run in of his own last time he visited family on the Big Island. He had told me that I was too sensitive before, but now believes me when I tell him that things have changed.

I think that unless someone is in the tourism business, us visitors are seen simply as intruders. I will still visit to see family but articles like this are not isolated. They are giving me pause about being a tourist on the islands. I don't honestly think that I am the target of this post, but it sticks in my craw that I have to vacation in a certain way that is culturally appropriate and spend a certain amount of money in order to vacation? What if my entire plan is to snorkel, hike, and eat at home? If I want culture, I am just going to go to uncle's house, talk story, and sing Hawaiian songs while he plays his ukulele. Maybe I will go bring flowers to my family's grave sites. I don't want to feel guilty about the way that we choose to travel. We will never, and have never been, big tour bus folks. I always read a book or two on Hawaiian culture before each visit (I do this no matter which place we visit - I want to understand where people are coming from) but I am sure that I have fallen short of the "spend" that they want me to reach, so I guess that I am not welcome anymore? Who in the world would want to visit some place where they feel unwelcome? There's a big world out there to explore and I guess that we will plan to visit some different places for vacations.

 

[MOXJO7282]

I'm really not advocating for premature opening and I'm someone who likes to play it safe so I'm really just thinking out loud that if a island like STT thinks its OK to open then maybe Hawaii will follow. I had a trip planned for STT June 28th that I moved to Dec. but I have alot invested in Maui so hope everything goes back to normal for the safety of the island inhabitants but for our future as well. I really do think it will and maybe sooner than we think. Let's hope.

 

[Ken555]

I'm really not advocating for premature opening and I'm someone who likes to play it safe so I'm really just thinking out loud that if a island like STT thinks its OK to open then maybe Hawaii will follow. I had a trip planned for STT June 28th that I moved to Dec. but I have alot invested in Maui so hope everything goes back to normal for the safety of the island inhabitants but for our future as well. I really do think it will and maybe sooner than we think. Let's hope.

I absolutely agree that I hope it will be better sooner. Sadly, too many are overly optimistic (not just on TUG). I’d prefer more realistic estimates, honestly, rather than the “next month” type announcements we saw from the cruise lines and other hospitality companies. I lose faith in these companies when it’s clear they just don’t know what they’re doing and aren’t being honest or not educating themselves on a realistic outcome (this is also true for governments). This is off topic so please move it to a different thread.


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[DeniseM]

We are so off topic... but since Denise hasn’t moved this yet I’ll respond. (@DeniseM?)

This has become an all-purpose Hawaii/C-19 thread, so everything goes, as long as you take the high road and avoid the politics and soapbox. Since there is so much random stuff, I actually prefer keeping it in one thread.

Also: Just as Tuggers have a wide range of perspectives, so do people living in Hawaii, so please don't make this an "us vs them" thing. I don't see how that can be helpful.

I doubt if Hawaii cares what other islands are doing - their top priority is keeping their own citizens safe. YMMV

 

[csodjd]

There’s a big difference between wanting to reopen and being able to do so safely. And if we have a second wave (which it seems most experts seem to anticipate) then Hawaii needs to be prepared for the eventual spread even with mitigation efforts like quarantine and pre-flight testing. I’m hopeful their efforts will contain any imported infection, but they must be prepared for it...both in terms of supplies, staff, and hospital beds but also that their visitors and residents understand this possible outcome.

This is true. However, they were completely unprepared for it back in Feb/Mar, had completely undetected infections coming onto the islands, and weathered the storm quite well. This time around they know a lot more about their enemy and the challenge it presents, they have tools available they didn't have before (like testing!), and they know what works for minimizing spread (masks, social distancing, washing hands, sanitizer, etc.). It seems to me that even if they were to open the flood gates June 1 and allow ANYONE in (not advocating that, just making a point), just as they were doing on March 15 (they didn't start shutting down business until about March 18), they would have less problems than they had in March and April if only because everyone knows more now. (I believe they initiated the 14-day quarantine on about March 22.)

So, now, if you add pre-flight testing so that the positives are removed from the flood of tourists coming in, you will have MUCH less infection arriving than you had arriving on March 15. Combined with the fact that there is no doubt the number coming will be dramatically reduced just due to fear (estimates are it will be several years before Hawaii has all of its tourists coming back), plus all the knowledge we all have today (asymptomatic spread, testing, benefits of masks and a 6' distance), the results would be way better than it was in March/April, and Hawaii was probably the best in the Country even back then.

All of that leads me to believe Hawaii is not giving itself enough credit, and is understating it's ability to handle the result of tourists/tourism. In hindsight, it appears they were quite well prepared for what came in the first wave before they even knew it was coming, and so this next wave cannot be as bad or as problematic and they are surely prepared for it.

 

[Ken555]

This is true. However, they were completely unprepared for it back in Feb/Mar, had completely undetected infections coming onto the islands, and weathered the storm quite well. This time around they know a lot more about their enemy and the challenge it presents, they have tools available they didn't have before (like testing!), and they know what works for minimizing spread (masks, social distancing, washing hands, sanitizer, etc.). It seems to me that even if they were to open the flood gates June 1 and allow ANYONE in (not advocating that, just making a point), just as they were doing on March 15 (they didn't start shutting down business until about March 18), they would have less problems than they had in March and April if only because everyone knows more now. (I believe they initiated the 14-day quarantine on about March 22.)

So, now, if you add pre-flight testing so that the positives are removed from the flood of tourists coming in, you will have MUCH less infection arriving than you had arriving on March 15. Combined with the fact that there is no doubt the number coming will be dramatically reduced just due to fear (estimates are it will be several years before Hawaii has all of its tourists coming back), plus all the knowledge we all have today (asymptomatic spread, testing, benefits of masks and a 6' distance), the results would be way better than it was in March/April, and Hawaii was probably the best in the Country even back then.

All of that leads me to believe Hawaii is not giving itself enough credit, and is understating it's ability to handle the result of tourists/tourism. In hindsight, it appears they were quite well prepared for what came in the first wave before they even knew it was coming, and so this next wave cannot be as bad or as problematic and they are surely prepared for it.

You are overly optimistic. Hopeful, but optimistic. Given everything that has happened in recent months I am naturally pessimistic. We should all be more pessimistic, and then rejoice when things get better. This optimism can get us all in trouble, if expectations continue to be set too high.


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[csodjd]

I totally agree with you. My family has been on the islands since forever (back to Hawaiian royalty on my paternal grandmothers side) and I have relatives there who are very active in the Hawaiian sovereignty movement, so I have heard many discussions over the years. I absolutely respect the culture and do my best to understand, but I will always be who I am, someone who was born and raised in California. I take after my mom's side of the family in coloring so I don't look Hawaiian. But because I look haole and sound haole (i.e. no pidgin), I have been treated as a haole tourist a few times. We have been given incorrect directions when asking for help, and have been challenged while hiking on public property. It's not me honestly - I try so hard to be polite and respectful but we have had the misfortune of running in to some rude folks while visiting. My dad who looks very Hawaiian even had a little run in of his own last time he visited family on the Big Island. He had told me that I was too sensitive before, but now believes me when I tell him that things have changed.

I think that unless someone is in the tourism business, us visitors are seen simply as intruders. I will still visit to see family but articles like this are not isolated. They are giving me pause about being a tourist on the islands. I don't honestly think that I am the target of this post, but it sticks in my craw that I have to vacation in a certain way that is culturally appropriate and spend a certain amount of money in order to vacation? What if my entire plan is to snorkel, hike, and eat at home? If I want culture, I am just going to go to uncle's house, talk story, and sing Hawaiian songs while he plays his ukulele. Maybe I will go bring flowers to my family's grave sites. I don't want to feel guilty about the way that we choose to travel. We will never, and have never been, big tour bus folks. I always read a book or two on Hawaiian culture before each visit (I do this no matter which place we visit - I want to understand where people are coming from) but I am sure that I have fallen short of the "spend" that they want me to reach, so I guess that I am not welcome anymore? Who in the world would want to visit some place where they feel unwelcome? There's a big world out there to explore and I guess that we will plan to visit some different places for vacations.

We have been fortunate I guess, but we've always had good relations with the Hawaiians/residents we've dealt with. We don't try and act like we are not tourists or like we're something we are not. We show respect, throw out the trash, and enjoy talking to locals to learn about their experiences, recommendations, etc. I've always found them polite, if we were. That's not to doubt what you've experienced, and maybe we're just to naive to realize we've been put down.

 

[csodjd]

You are overly optimistic. Hopeful, but optimistic. Given everything that has happened in recent months I am naturally pessimistic. We should all be more pessimistic, and then rejoice when things get better. This optimism can get us all in trouble, if expectations continue to be set too high.


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I'm not naturally pessimistic. Optimistic, but not dumb. I always leave myself a plan B, and make as much lemonade as I can out of every lemon. What else can you do? I can only control what I can control. No reason to get too angry over what I can't control.

I've booked two weeks in late October-early November. I think we'll be able to go. I know it will be different, though I don't know just how yet. But as long as I can play some golf, drink coffee on the balcony as the sun rises, and drink mai tais as it sets, how bad can it really be?

 

[klpca]

We have been fortunate I guess, but we've always had good relations with the Hawaiians/residents we've dealt with. We don't try and act like we are not tourists or like we're something we are not. We show respect, throw out the trash, and enjoy talking to locals to learn about their experiences, recommendations, etc. I've always found them polite, if we were. That's not to doubt what you've experienced, and maybe we're just to naive to realize we've been put down.

True. I totally know when we are getting the stink eye (you know, because my family does it too, lol). Btw, this has only happened in the past 5 years or so and to be truthful it's only been directed at us three times, and we've been visiting since the early 80's. But it was very surprising when it occurred. We travel all over the world and if you met my husband you would understand why we have good experiences everywhere that we visit - he's very social, fun to talk to, and genuinely relates well to everyone. He's a warm person and I have never met anyone who didn't like him. I'm pretty social myself but I am not in the same league as my husband. At this point in our travels, I would say that we have found this experience to be unique to Hawaii, and it's recent. We have adjusted. We live in San Diego and tourists definitely change everything about our local places in the summer. Luckily things go back to normal in the fall, unlike Hawaii which has a 365 day tourist cycle. Sharing your limited space on a daily basis wears you down. It will be interesting to see how things shake out on the islands with respect to tourism. If things double in cost in order to limit the number of visitors, we will just have to visit elsewhere because it's already an expensive trip as it is between airfare, rental cars, and lodging.

 

[csodjd]

Here is a discussion with some pertinent information. They point out that Hawaii has or will have the second highest unemployment rate in the country because of the ~250,000 people in the tourism industry, and they discuss how if all goes as expected, it will be 2025 before Hawaii returns to 2019 levels of tourism. Between the lines, that means opening for tourism in, say, September is only going to result in a small fraction of the normal tourist volume. I believe they estimate about 1 million tourists the remainder of the year - roughly what they get per month normally.

WATCH ‘This is Now’: Scammers launch attacks on unemployment systems

Watch “This is Now” live from the HNN Digital Center weekdays on Hawaii News Now’s platforms online and on mobile.

www.hawaiinewsnow.com

 

[Yellowfin]

It seems they may first open in July for travelers from Japan, New Zealand and Australia.

Lt. Gov. Josh Green hopes to reopen Hawaii’s tourism industry by July

After two days with no new coronavirus cases statewide, some people are anxious to restart the tourism industry.

www.hawaiinewsnow.com

 

[amy241]

It seems they may first open in July for travelers from Japan, New Zealand and Australia.

Lt. Gov. Josh Green hopes to reopen Hawaii’s tourism industry by July

After two days with no new coronavirus cases statewide, some people are anxious to restart the tourism industry.

www.hawaiinewsnow.com

I find it disappointing that they exclude their own countrymen.

 

[Ken555]

I'm not naturally pessimistic. Optimistic, but not dumb. I always leave myself a plan B, and make as much lemonade as I can out of every lemon. What else can you do? I can only control what I can control. No reason to get too angry over what I can't control.

I've booked two weeks in late October-early November. I think we'll be able to go. I know it will be different, though I don't know just how yet. But as long as I can play some golf, drink coffee on the balcony as the sun rises, and drink mai tais as it sets, how bad can it really be?

It may not seem it, but I’m the same as you. However, I see so many posts (here and elsewhere) of people *believing* the company/government timelines and then being crushed when it’s clear they were wrong. I’d rather see some realistic timelines that truly minimize risk of transmission, and I don’t see them yet.

I’ve already missed a big trip to Australia, and am planning on canceling a big trip to Japan, and likely a shorter one to Europe in Nov. Based on all the pics, news and reports from/by the airlines, there’s absolutely no way I want to fly. I don’t trust any of the airlines to minimize risk, regardless of what they promise. And, those pics of recent TSA lines yesterday are just scary. I’m happy staying home right now and setting my expectations accordingly. Sure, if thing improve faster than I expect I will be thrilled to travel. In addition to already booked cruises for next year, not to mention FCCs I have for next year and another ~10 weeks or so of timeshares since I didn’t use many this year, I could probably travel for half of 2021 if it was safe (but no, I don’t expect to).


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[csodjd]

It may not seem it, but I’m the same as you. However, I see so many posts (here and elsewhere) of people *believing* the company/government timelines and then being crushed when it’s clear they were wrong. I’d rather see some realistic timelines that truly minimize risk of transmission, and I don’t see them yet.

I’ve already missed a big trip to Australia, and am planning on canceling a big trip to Japan, and likely a shorter one to Europe in Nov. Based on all the pics, news and reports from/by the airlines, there’s absolutely no way I want to fly. I don’t trust any of the airlines to minimize risk, regardless of what they promise. And, those pics of recent TSA lines yesterday are just scary. I’m happy staying home right now and setting my expectations accordingly. Sure, if thing improve faster than I expect I will be thrilled to travel. In addition to already booked cruises for next year, not to mention FCCs I have for next year and another ~10 weeks or so of timeshares since I didn’t use many this year, I could probably travel for half of 2021 if it was safe (but no, I don’t expect to).

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I'm heading to Pinehurst NC via Charlotte from LA in August for two golf tournaments. Still scheduled to go to England for a golf tournament in late September, but consider that a 50-50 at best. Haven't canceled the air yet though. However, flying in First, window seat, front row (still debating if front row or back row of first class is best). Not thrilled about a mask on the flight, but it is what it is. Canceling the Danube river cruise and week in Ireland though and rescheduling for June 2021. Plan to be in Oahu in late October, Maui in November, and both again in March/April.

I feel like, at this time, we have a lot of information and while cannot entirely guarantee not becoming infected, it's largely up to me at this point because I know what needs to be done. I know to assume everyone has it, so don't shake hands. Don't stand 2 feet way from the person I'm talking to. Wipe things down. Wash hands. Avoid crowds. Avoid lines. Wear glasses. (That's one people don't think about.) I no longer think becoming infected is out of my control. If it happens it's most likely from my failure.

 

[csodjd]

It seems they may first open in July for travelers from Japan, New Zealand and Australia.

Lt. Gov. Josh Green hopes to reopen Hawaii’s tourism industry by July

After two days with no new coronavirus cases statewide, some people are anxious to restart the tourism industry.

www.hawaiinewsnow.com

Isn't that the same Lt. Gov. that the Governor has removed from the tourism committee or groups dealing with tourism? I don't have a finger on the pulse of Hawaii politics, but I get the sense that the Gov. and Lt. Gov. are often NOT on the same page.

 

[Ken555]

I feel like, at this time, we have a lot of information and while cannot entirely guarantee not becoming infected, it's largely up to me at this point because I know what needs to be done. I know to assume everyone has it, so don't shake hands. Don't stand 2 feet way from the person I'm talking to. Wipe things down. Wash hands. Avoid crowds. Avoid lines. Wear glasses. (That's one people don't think about.) I no longer think becoming infected is out of my control. If it happens it's most likely from my failure.

We have very different opinions re what can be done. What would you do if your flight is full? What if the TSA line is backed up and people aren’t keeping social distance? (And not two feet...even six feet is just the minimum we should adhere to, and when discussing this topic with experts they’re quick to say that this is just a recommendation and that greater distance is preferred). What if some people near you won’t wear masks?

This is not in your control.


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[T_R_Oglodyte]

We have very different opinions re what can be done. What would you do if your flight is full? What if the TSA line is backed up and people aren’t keeping social distance? (And not two feet...even six feet is just the minimum we should adhere to, and when discussing this topic with experts they’re quick to say that this is just a recommendation and that greater distance is preferred). What if some people near you won’t wear masks?

This is not in your control.


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I think we're likely to see some changes in air travel going forward. Specifically, greater demand for first class and additional seating options in coach that create greater distances.

Frontier tried to create a surcharge for seating with distancing, and got slammed so hard they had to drop it. IMHO - they just did it the wrong way. Instead of creating is an option on any given flight, what they should have done is to make the entire coach section distanced seating on specified flights, and set the coach fare for that flight accordingly. Close to the same outcome, but the optics are better.

I expect there will be greater demand for first class seating. I'm seeing this on some flights that I track. Coach fares are way down, but FC fares haven't budged an iota. If that holds up, we will likely see airlines expanding first class seating. Or creating a new class of seating that has FC space but not FC amenities.

I can see airlines installing partitions between each row of seats.

 

[csodjd]

We have very different opinions re what can be done. What would you do if your flight is full? What if the TSA line is backed up and people aren’t keeping social distance? (And not two feet...even six feet is just the minimum we should adhere to, and when discussing this topic with experts they’re quick to say that this is just a recommendation and that greater distance is preferred). What if some people near you won’t wear masks?

This is not in your control.


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Doubt it will be full, but if so, they'll all be behind me. That's why first, front row, window. My exposure is limited to one or two people, one to my left and one behind me. I have and use CLEAR so I don't wait in the TSA line. Masks are required on the flight. I think I can largely stay away from someone not wearing a mask. (However, if I have a mask and glasses, and wash/sanitize my hands, my risk is greatly reduced if not eliminated.)

Latest info from CDC and others is that while COVID is very contagious, but not that easily spread. It takes more than a moment of contact.

I spent many years treating AIDS patients in the late '80's and '90's. I was never worried about getting AIDS, because I knew what I was dealing with and could protect myself. What I I worried about was getting TB by having a seemingly healthy patient cough on me. That I worried about.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Doubt it will be full, but if so, they'll all be behind me. That's why first, front row, window. My exposure is limited to one or two people, one to my left and one behind me. I have and use CLEAR so I don't wait in the TSA line. Masks are required on the flight. I think I can largely stay away from someone not wearing a mask. (However, if I have a mask and glasses, and wash/sanitize my hands, my risk is greatly reduced if not eliminated.)

You might want to consider last row of first class. Because behind you will be the curtain between Coach and FC. That's the seating that I'm emphasizing for my flights that haven't yet been cancelled.

 

[Ken555]

Doubt it will be full, but if so, they'll all be behind me. That's why first, front row, window. My exposure is limited to one or two people, one to my left and one behind me. I have and use CLEAR so I don't wait in the TSA line. Masks are required on the flight. I think I can largely stay away from someone not wearing a mask. (However, if I have a mask and glasses, and wash/sanitize my hands, my risk is greatly reduced if not eliminated.)

Latest info from CDC and others is that while COVID is very contagious, but not that easily spread. It takes more than a moment of contact.

I spent many years treating AIDS patients in the late '80's and '90's. I was never worried about getting AIDS, because I knew what I was dealing with and could protect myself. What I I worried about was getting TB by having a seemingly healthy patient cough on me. That I worried about.

Most of us here have pre check. Still, I’ve been in those lines where people are as rude as ever...

A friend flew from Miami to LA a few days ago and had a mask and a face shield (which I think may be better than glasses, unless you have goggles...and it sounds like you would know better than I). Still, he went into quarantine upon arrival for two weeks.

I would only fly soon if I had the entire row to myself and purchased the row in front and behind (or was in the first/last row).

I don’t make plans based on the latest non peer reviewed reports. I’ll wait until there is consensus.


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[gdrj]

The Governor saying there is no timetable is not helpful for the State, the economy, or tourism. There ought to be tentative dates so workers and employers can be planning for reopening, with a caveat of “subject to change”.

If the State truly has no timetable it doesn't speak well for their recovery or their preparedness for opening up the economy. Training of staff, reopening and adjusting of facilities takes time. Review of supply chains and restocking of restaurants as well all take time. Hawaii shouldnt just announce a week ahead of time they way they did with hair dressers. If there is a detailed plan it will give comfort and assurances to employees as well as employers. The longer the uncertainty the more jobs that wont comeback, bankruptcy, lack of financing and foreclosure on hotels will follow.

 

[csodjd]

You might want to consider last row of first class. Because behind you will be the curtain between Coach and FC. That's the seating that I'm emphasizing for my flights that haven't yet been cancelled.

That was my internal debate. First row -- basically no exposure or contact with anyone getting on the plane. Last row -- nobody behind me to cough/sneeze my direction. I was reading tonight how because the seats are tall they are a fairly good barrier to droplets. Seems to me that's true if someone sneezes straight ahead or down, not so much up, though people don't really sneeze up, do they?