Change in SVN ELITE benefits

[rfb813]

Posted by Emuyshondt:

"Perhaps assigning upgrades 90 days out is too much. A few days before check-in time the front desk staff could go through its list, sort it by home resort ownership, then elite level, then call-in time and assign upgrades based on available rooms. This would allow all that wanted to make reservations to get a room and use what is left over to give a little something to their most loyal customers. This is better than letting good rooms go unused."

In reading all the posts in this thread it appears that the above comment is worthy of real consideration. I would expect that the rooms manager for the resort will have to assign the locations of all owners and guests at the resort for a specific week. I know this is how Marriott works its system and assigns rooms: first priority to owners at the resort within their season, second to owners at the resort outside of their season, third to owners of other Marriott resorts exchanging into the resort and fourth to non-Marriott owners exchanging into the resort from II. Why can't Starwood apply this system with the consideration of Elite status and time stamp when assigning rooms. If a upgrade is available under this priority system, great. I agree "This is better than letting good rooms go unused".

 

[mepiccolo]

I agree with all your numbered points.

As for the phone thing, we've had this discussion before.

I'm comfortable with the incredibly small group of people having an unfair advantage because they have access to a phone bank like you do. I'd bet we could count the number of SV owners that have this advantage only using our fingers and probably only using one hand.

If the reservation system goes on the web, thousands "in the know" will be able to use bots for book their reservations in milliseconds. Those not in the know will get bots from people in the know.

Looking at my sister's experience with timeshare reservations in an internet based system, I highly suspect the rampant use of bots. I've witnessed her get denied when she was trying at the very first moment available. She's a multiweek owner an even has an advantage over "lesser" owners... and still got beat. The rampant use of bots seems like the best explaination.

Getting up at the crack of dawn once or twice a year is far more acceptable than this web alternative. Sometimes using advanced technology is not progressive. I'd prefer to keep the reservation system as a phone call than making it on the internet but for Starwood to upgrade their computer system so that they can actually give you the number of the unit you will get on that phone call. Ticketmaster does this on a much larger scale so Starwood should be able to offer this as well. Frankly, if you want the best view/floor possible then getting up out of bed to make a phone call is the fairest way to let everyone have the same opportunity. I want to compete against other humans for a busy week - not against computers set up by their owners who are still in bed.

 

[DavidnRobin]

If the reservation system goes on the web, thousands "in the know" will be able to use bots for book their reservations in milliseconds. Those not in the know will get bots from people in the know.

Looking at my sister's experience with timeshare reservations in an internet based system, I highly suspect the rampant use of bots. I've witnessed her get denied when she was trying at the very first moment available. She's a multiweek owner an even has an advantage over "lesser" owners... and still got beat. The rampant use of bots seems like the best explaination.

Sorry- had to comment on this...
You are incorrect about this.

This may have been used in the past - or with an outdated systems. The so-called 'bots' are easily beaten out by a code that can't be scanned and needs to be inputted by hand - have you bought a concert ticket lately? Probaby not - since you have people buy them for you...

Now if you want to have your hired hands all trying to play a numbers game and get the code entered as quick as possible like with the phone system- have at it.

I have been dealing with SVO/SVN about issues with my data in their system - and I know from experience in dealing with them - that their existing system is broken.

The one thing SVO/SVN could do to both help themselves and owners is to get a modern database and reservation system. You know all that clicking sound you here when talking to them - using a 'backspace' key to erase info because they are using some outdated UNIX based program written over a decade ago (if not longer)... We have dozens of people at my work (and certainly 1000s throughout the SF Bay Area working a 100s of companies) that could easily create a workable modern database and linked reservation system.

Obviously - a phone system needs to be in place - along with a computer system - but even it the associate is entering this info -it starts with their database and with a reservation software shell - you are not competing with bots - just different and better ways to serve thier customers and reducing their and therefore our costs.

 

[KOR5Star]

Getting up at the crack of dawn once or twice a year is far more acceptable than this web alternative. Sometimes using advanced technology is not progressive. I'd prefer to keep the reservation system as a phone call than making it on the internet but for Starwood to upgrade their computer system so that they can actually give you the number of the unit you will get on that phone call. Ticketmaster does this on a much larger scale so Starwood should be able to offer this as well. Frankly, if you want the best view/floor possible then getting up out of bed to make a phone call is the fairest way to let everyone have the same opportunity. I want to compete against other humans for a busy week - not against computers set up by their owners who are still in bed.

Yes. Well said. It would be nice to know your location at the time of booking.

The only downside I can see is if a unit goes off-line for some reason... fire, health hazard, etc... In that case, if we all knew where we were supposed to be, there could be no recovery for the person who had the misfortune of booking that particular room. They would have to drop to the bottom of the food chain and get whatever is left over. If we didn't know where we were, the managment would have the opportunity to shift everyone right. We'd all get just a little less than we were supposed to, but nobody would arrive expecting a particular veiw and now had the worst room in the house.

 

[KOR5Star]

Posted by Emuyshondt:

"Perhaps assigning upgrades 90 days out is too much. A few days before check-in time the front desk staff could go through its list, sort it by home resort ownership, then elite level, then call-in time and assign upgrades based on available rooms. This would allow all that wanted to make reservations to get a room and use what is left over to give a little something to their most loyal customers. This is better than letting good rooms go unused."

In reading all the posts in this thread is appears that the above comment is worthy of real consideration. I would expect that the rooms manager for the resort will ahave to assign the locations of all owners and guests at the resort for a specific week. I know this is how Marriott works its system and assigns rooms: first priority to owners at the resort within their season, second to owners at the resort outside of their season, third to owners of other Marriott resorts exchanging into the resort and fourth to non-Marriott owners exchanging into the resort from II. Why can't Starwood apply this system with the consideration of Elite status and time stamp when assigning rooms. If a upgrade is available under this priority system, great. I agree "This is better than letting good rooms go unused".

Yes, when I receive my call, this is something I would ask for. It's a reasonable compromise.

It's really no different than the hotels operate. As Platinum, I arrive with a particular catagory of room booked. IF AVAILABLE, I get upgraded at check-in... not months before check-in.. it's done right at check-in.

 

[Time2Ponder]

The discussion here and the e-mails should really have an effect.

I'm not so sure about this. Approximately 30 people have participated in this thread, with varying degrees of opinion -- in other words, out of the thousands of elites in existence, not many have found their way here to complain.

Tuggers are people who are aware of the subtle ins and outs of TS programs; I'm guessing that most owners, however, (even including elites) are fairly unaware of how their programs work, and thus aren't really all that concerned about the changes.

JMO. YMMV.

 

[KOR5Star]

Sorry- had to comment on this...
You are incorrect about this.

This may have been used in the past - or with an outdated systems. The so-called 'bots' are easily beaten out by a code that can't be scanned and needs to be inputted by hand - have you bought a concert ticket lately? Probaby not - since you have people buy them for you...

No need to be sorry.

Yeah, I'm an electrical engineer in the semiconductor industry. I know a routine (and so do at least thousands of others) that can take that image, warp it, and run a CR algorithm as it goes. It takes about 500ms on a typical PC. It's not 100% accurate, so it may take a couple/few attempts.

Basically the bot fills out the form. The user tells the bot where the warped security code is by identifying the characters immediately before it and away she goes. If it's wrong the host will reject and provide a different image... which is the very thing that makes this algorithm successful. If it can't warp and recognize one, the host throws it away and provides and different warp.

So if it tries two or three times, big deal. The majority of the time will be the host rejecting it. It might take a couple/few seconds instead of the milliseconds I initially stated.

We have dozens of people at my work (and certainly 1000s throughout the SF Bay Area working a 100s of companies) that could easily create a workable modern database and linked reservation system.

Obviously - a phone system needs to be in place - along with a computer system - but even it the associate is entering this info -it starts with their database and with a reservation software shell - you are not competing with bots - just different and better ways to serve thier customers and reducing their and therefore our costs.

I generally agree. Their system certainly seems wanting, but it might not be an old system. It might just be a bad one. Do a search on All American. It's a semiconductor distributor that just imploded because they tried to upgrade their system and it was a disaster because they made the wrong choice. So much of a disaster that the whole company crashed and burned and either is no more or shortly will be no more.

 

[DavidnRobin]

No need to be sorry.

Yeah, I'm an electrical engineer in the semiconductor industry. I know a routine (and so do at least thousands of others) that can take that image, warp it, and run a CR algorithm as it goes. It takes about 500ms on a typical PC. It's not 100% accurate, so it may take a couple/few attempts.

Basically the bot fills out the form. The user tells the bot where the warped security code is by identifying the characters immediately before it and away she goes. If it's wrong the host will reject and provide a different image... which is the very thing that makes this algorithm successful. If it can't warp and recognize one, the host throws it away and provides and different warp.

So if it tries two or three times, big deal. The majority of the time will be the host rejecting it. It might take a couple/few seconds instead of the milliseconds I initially stated.


I generally agree. Their system certainly seems wanting, but it might not be an old system. It might just be a bad one. Do a search on All American. It's a semiconductor distributor that just imploded because they tried to upgrade their system and it was a disaster because they made the wrong choice. So much of a disaster that the whole company crashed and burned and either is no more or shortly will be no more.

Sorry - not a semi-techno but if you want to talk bioscience... the techno jargon is fine, but I am approaching from a pragmatic side.

Each reiteration takes time (try this on ticketmaster)... for what??? a reservation? that can be made by phone or internet (in ideal world)? perhaps on those super hard to get weeks - maybe...? (likely not even then)

you are not trying to get front row ickets to The Police - you actually have to be an Owner (at 12 months) or the SOs (at 8 months) to use - so creating a specialized system (and effort) to thwart it is not worth it

All I am saying (along with many others).
1) the SVO/SVN database system is really archaic and needs to be at 100%
2) the reservation software and database link needs to be upgraded to the 21st century
3) the status quo is costing everyone time and money
4) 90/10 rule here - make a reservation system that deals with 90%(+) of the owner needs (both by phone and web-based)

SVO/SVN is suffering from 'old-school' mentality driving by Marketing/Sales - including policies - especially that start off with 'congratulations on our 3rd year - prepare to bend over...'

 

[Tony&Perry]

Self-referal bonus points

Has any SVN elite received a self-referal bonus when buying a new unit. Marriott does this but I would like to know if SVN NEVER does it or if it is negotiable.
Thanks

 

[Denise L]

Has any SVN elite received a self-referal bonus when buying a new unit. Marriott does this but I would like to know if SVN NEVER does it or if it is negotiable.
Thanks

I have asked and friends have asked. The answer has been no self-referral Starpoints.

 

[nodge]

Wiggle Room in SVN's Elite Enrollment Contract

Hey Starwood Tuggers,

There may be wiggle room in SVN’s elite enrollment contract that suggests that the villa upgrade benefit CANNOT be cancelled at will by SVN.

I found and dusted off my “Starwood Vacation Network Elite Level Enrollment Form” (Rev. 7-11-05) that was part of the SVN Elite enrollment procedure. The following two clauses are relevant here:

“4. I understand that some benefits, such as unit upgrades, early check-in and late check-out, are subject to availability and resort and SVN Rules and may not be available at all SVN resorts. Unit size upgrades, if available, will be permitted into the next size unit (e.g. studio upgrade into a one bedroom unit) and are only available for units with the same number of keys.”

“9. I understand that all SVN Rules shall apply to SVN Elite Members except as specifically provided in this Enrollment Form and related SVN Elite Membership documents. I further understand that SVN Elite, including eligibility criteria and each feature and benefit of SVN Elite, is subject to additions, modifications and/or termination at any time. While it is anticipated that the SVN Operator will continue to offer SVN Elite, my decision to purchase the Interest is based primarily on my use of my Interest at my Resort, and not on the continued availability of SVN Elite.”

At first glance, these two clauses appear to adequately preserve SVN’s right to cancel the room upgrade benefit provided in section 4, but the highlighted “except as specifically provided in this Enrollment form” term in clause 9 definitely clouds this issue.

Moreover, none of the other benefits of SVN elite membership besides the villa upgrade benefit are specifically listed in the “Starwood Vacation Network Elite Level Enrollment Form” (Rev. 7-11-05).” Rather, the other benefits (late check-out, platinum for life, etc.) are listed in a bullet chart provided in a glossy, fancy-pants welcome to elite packet that accompanied the official “enrollment form.”

In light of the fancy-pants brochure which lists ALL the benefits of SVN elite membership AND the fact that the villa upgrade feature is the only benefit that is expressly listed in the actual "Starwood Vacation Network Elite Level Enrollment Form,” one could argue that since the “villa upgrade” benefit is “specifically provided in this Enrollment form,” and section 4 of that agreement expressly states that “unit size upgrades, if available, will be permitted” and the second sentence of section 9 is part of the “SVN Elite Membership Documents,” then the second sentence of section 9 (which preserves SVN’s right to cancel benefits) DOESN’T apply to benefits listed in section 4 of that agreement.

In other words, SVN preserved its right to change and cancel any aspect of the SVN elite program, EXCEPT the villa upgrade feature of section 4, which expressly states that “villa upgrades . . . will be permitted.”

At a minimum, one could argue that the language is ambiguous regarding this issue. Since ambiguities are usually construed against the drafter of the document, owners would still prevail.

Hey Starwood MBA’s! In between patting yourselves on the back for saving so much money by screwing us, did any of you bother to check with SVN’s legal department before you elected to kill the villa upgrade feature? If not, I think you should consider giving them a ring.

-nodge

 

[mesamirage]

All I am saying (along with many others).
1) the SVO/SVN database system is really archaic and needs to be at 100%
2) the reservation software and database link needs to be upgraded to the 21st century
3) the status quo is costing everyone time and money
4) 90/10 rule here - make a reservation system that deals with 90%(+) of the owner needs (both by phone and web-based)

SVO/SVN is suffering from 'old-school' mentality driving by Marketing/Sales - including policies - especially that start off with 'congratulations on our 3rd year - prepare to bend over...'

David,

I just want to say I agree 100% with what you are saying.. I have also voiced my displeasure with the Starwood reservation system as well.. it is BROKE. It may take an investment of $$$ to fix it, but the technology exist and it can be done. The main problem I see with Starwood feeling like they need to fix it along with their decisions to change ELITE perks is that they are mainly only affecting existing owners, so I don't think that at the end of the day they care. We are all on the hook for our MF fees, either to pay them or sell the interval to someone else who will have to pay them... Starwood knows they aren't going to lose our payments since we are legally bound to pay them. All Starwood likely really cares about is NEW Sales... changing ELITE perks doesn't change that much, and fixing the reservation system doesn't change it either. We love the Starwood product but until we the owners have the real voice in what happens we will always to subject to Starwood deciding what is best for us.

I'm not 100% sure what happens with Starwood when a property sells out, but with Hyatt the owners replace Hyatt on the board for the resort... I'm not 100% clear on the process and what voice Hyatt still has but I know more control goes to the owners who are really the ones with the biggest interest in keeping the property(s) top notch. Again not sure of the process... but there has to be a way to get our voice heard more on issues that are important to us with Starwood, issues that Starwood doesn't have a financial interest in fixing.

Just a few thoughts..... The Starwood product is a fantastic product, but no reason it can't be better.

Steve

 

[KOR5Star]

Sorry - not a semi-techno but if you want to talk bioscience... the techno jargon is fine, but I am approaching from a pragmatic side.

Each reiteration takes time (try this on ticketmaster)... for what??? a reservation? that can be made by phone or internet (in ideal world)? perhaps on those super hard to get weeks - maybe...? (likely not even then)

you are not trying to get front row ickets to The Police - you actually have to be an Owner (at 12 months) or the SOs (at 8 months) to use - so creating a specialized system (and effort) to thwart it is not worth it

Well... maybe like Westin5Star, I'm over estimating the number of people that would have access to and exploit an internet bot advantage. Perhaps my sister's experience is due to some other issue I'm not aware of and I'm mistaken to assume bot usage.

It's human nature to believe other people are just like us. Westin5Star implies there would be little difference between his phone bank advantage and and internet advantage using bots... ergo, he must believe there are many people with command of, or at least access to, the services of a phone bank.

Is it worth it? Considering I have a school aged son and I'm locked into that calender... along with a b'zillion other familes all trying to take a vacation at the same time... it's an advantage I would definately exploit. As you know, time stamp is everything. Even if it didn't make a difference in getting your week in the first place (and I believe it would), it certainly would impact your unit location request.

Even 5 Star Elite doesn't trump timestamp. If a one unit owner has a better timestamp, they get first dibbs on the best unit location. So for the best shot at a great unit location, yes, I believe it's worth it.

I'm not sure what you meant by "Each reiteration takes time". This is handled automatically... no need for human intervention. On my side each attempt would take less than a second and occur without my intervention. The only additional time would be waiting for the host system to reject the password and refresh the page with a new one. This too should take less than a second on a high speed link. It could probably retry 5 times before an accomplished typist could finish typing their name and telephone number.

All I am saying (along with many others).
1) the SVO/SVN database system is really archaic and needs to be at 100%
2) the reservation software and database link needs to be upgraded to the 21st century
3) the status quo is costing everyone time and money
4) 90/10 rule here - make a reservation system that deals with 90%(+) of the owner needs (both by phone and web-based)

SVO/SVN is suffering from 'old-school' mentality driving by Marketing/Sales - including policies - especially that start off with 'congratulations on our 3rd year - prepare to bend over...'

I think we all agree the current reservations system seems to be a poor implementation, but I'm not so sure it's archaic or out dated.

Due to accountability issues and cost, companies need to implement systems that reach into every aspect of a business. This could result in using a system that's really great for all the nuances of selling timeshare and running the business side, but sucks wind for reservations and inventory control.

Unfortunately, the system is often chosen by executives for their ease of business operation, not the ease of the customers. And don't forget, we're not really customers anymore. We are owners. They already have our money and we MUST keep giving them their MFs or pass the "hot potato" to someone that will.

But at least we can agree on the basic point that the system is not convenient for owners.

 

[nodge]

Additional SVN Rant

As long as I’ve got some time to rant, I should note that I was recently able to book, not one, not two, but three, count ‘em THREE large one bedroom villas at Westin Mission Hills Villas for late October 2007 via Interval International “Getaways” for cheap. How cheap you ask? Not $800/week, Not $500/week, not even $300/week. But because I’m so special (not), I was able to book each unit for $288/week (plus guest certificates).

I picked a week in October at WMH’s when my kids have a 4 day weekend, so I thought I’d treat ‘em to a little sun. Then I called my folks in Michigan and they signed up for a unit, and they talked my uncle and his family into joining us. So now we’ve got a great family reunion planned, and we are all looking forward to it, dumpsterville or not.

But in light of Starwood’s recent “modifications” to the SVN Elite program, I think I now understand why I was able to pull so many units at such a great price. Starwood wants new blood at its resorts, and it would rather give excess inventory to II to sell as cheap “getaways” than allow us owners an opportunity to upgrade into those same units using reduced staroptions.

In light of this great trip that I was able to book for cheap, my feelings on this new SVN tactic are mixed. But when Starwood tells us owners that it is operating at peak capacity at all of its resorts, it would appear to be because SVN is essentially giving away excess inventory to II to sell at well below market rates.

Hey Starwood MBA’s! Why do I get a much better deal at an SVN property using an outside exchange company instead of staying within SVN? In other words, thanks for giving me such a great deal at your owners’ expense. Oh wait, I’m an owner too . . .

-nodge

 

[DavidnRobin]

I'm not sure what you meant by "Each reiteration takes time". This is handled automatically... no need for human intervention. On my side each attempt would take less than a second and occur without my intervention. The only additional time would be waiting for the host system to reject the password and refresh the page with a new one. This too should take less than a second on a high speed link. It could probably retry 5 times before an accomplished typist could finish typing their name and telephone number.

It may be instaneous in your computer time - but not theirs - try it some time in realtime with TicketMaster (or the like) when there is a major event that goes on sale - it takes a while for their side to process. Oh, btw - these are not easility scanned.

Anyway... I wasn't looking to be agreed with - it is like arguing about gravity in a way - the system needs serious fixing and IT WOULD BE a cost savings to do so (in the long run)

 

[duke]

I was recently able to book, not one, not two, but three, count ‘em THREE large one bedroom villas at Westin Mission Hills Villas for late October 2007 via Interval International “Getaways” for cheap. How cheap you ask? Not $800/week, Not $500/week, not even $300/week. But because I’m so special (not), I was able to book each unit for $288/week (plus guest certificates).

But in light of Starwood’s recent “modifications” to the SVN Elite program, I think I now understand why I was able to pull so many units at such a great price. Starwood wants new blood at its resorts, and it would rather give excess inventory to II to sell as cheap “getaways” than allow us owners an opportunity to upgrade into those same units using reduced staroptions.

But when Starwood tells us owners that it is operating at peak capacity at all of its resorts, it would appear to be because SVN is essentially giving away excess inventory to II to sell at well below market rates.

Hey Starwood MBA’s! Why do I get a much better deal at an SVN property using an outside exchange company instead of staying within SVN? In other words, thanks for giving me such a great deal at your owners’ expense. Oh wait, I’m an owner too . . .
-nodge

This sucks if true. Are they doing this to get "fresh meat" in to sell more units?

 

[duke]

In other words, SVN preserved its right to change and cancel any aspect of the SVN elite program, EXCEPT the villa upgrade feature of section 4, which expressly states that “villa upgrades . . . will be permitted.”

At a minimum, one could argue that the language is ambiguous regarding this issue. Since ambiguities are usually construed against the drafter of the document, owners would still prevail.

Hey Starwood MBA’s! In between patting yourselves on the back for saving so much money by screwing us, did any of you bother to check with SVN’s legal department before you elected to kill the villa upgrade feature? If not, I think you should consider giving them a ring.

-nodge

Any attorney here able to write the letter or file the papers?

 

[TheUnitrep]

There may be wiggle room in SVN’s elite enrollment contract that suggests that the villa upgrade benefit CANNOT be cancelled at will by SVN.

...if available, will be permitted into the next size unit (e.g. studio upgrade into a one bedroom unit) and are only available for units with the same number of keys.”

It was explained to me during our last sales presentation that the reason this statement is included was to specify which units qualified for upgrade. By including this, Starwood was preventing owners from being able to upgrade from a studio or one bedroom to a two bedroom lock off.

...I further understand that SVN Elite, including eligibility criteria and each feature and benefit of SVN Elite, is subject to additions, modifications and/or termination at any time. While it is anticipated that the SVN Operator will continue to offer SVN Elite, my decision to purchase the Interest is based primarily on my use of my Interest at my Resort, and not on the continued availability of SVN Elite.”

It appears to me that this clause gives Starwood the right to add to, delete from or teminate the Elite program at any time. It also alerts owners that they should not base a purchase decision on the program continuing.

Seems pretty black and white to me that Starwood has the right to do as they wish when it comes to the Elite program, but then again I am no attorney or expert in this area.

Jerry

 

[oneohana]

As long as I’ve got some time to rant, I should note that I was recently able to book, not one, not two, but three, count ‘em THREE large one bedroom villas at Westin Mission Hills Villas for late October 2007 via Interval International “Getaways” for cheap. How cheap you ask? Not $800/week, Not $500/week, not even $300/week. But because I’m so special (not), I was able to book each unit for $288/week (plus guest certificates).

I picked a week in October at WMH’s when my kids have a 4 day weekend, so I thought I’d treat ‘em to a little sun. Then I called my folks in Michigan and they signed up for a unit, and they talked my uncle and his family into joining us. So now we’ve got a great family reunion planned, and we are all looking forward to it, dumpsterville or not.

But in light of Starwood’s recent “modifications” to the SVN Elite program, I think I now understand why I was able to pull so many units at such a great price. Starwood wants new blood at its resorts, and it would rather give excess inventory to II to sell as cheap “getaways” than allow us owners an opportunity to upgrade into those same units using reduced staroptions.

In light of this great trip that I was able to book for cheap, my feelings on this new SVN tactic are mixed. But when Starwood tells us owners that it is operating at peak capacity at all of its resorts, it would appear to be because SVN is essentially giving away excess inventory to II to sell at well below market rates.

Hey Starwood MBA’s! Why do I get a much better deal at an SVN property using an outside exchange company instead of staying within SVN? In other words, thanks for giving me such a great deal at your owners’ expense. Oh wait, I’m an owner too . . .

-nodge

Are these weeks that *wood space banks for the other properties? I think they give II a 2bdrm l/o and II splits the unit into 2 1bdrm units.
Did you look at Marriots prices for the same time? They were the same price. If I owned a silver or gold week I would be very upset that they are renting for less than their mf's. These weeks are always available due to the heat. The end of Oct. might not be too bad. The temp is already in the 100's there.

 

[skim118]

Not entirely true, but very close.

As a multiweek owner at WKORV, I CAN NOT book earlier than anyone else when I'm using multiple weeks in a row.

What happens is I call for the first week, 12 months out at the earliest moment. SVN then sends an internal e-mail, which sits and gathers dust until the following week. When someone strolls in that day, get their coffee, shoot the breeze with their coworker, scratch their butt, adjust their chair, etc..., they finally get down to booking the reservations in their e-mail pile. This e-mail pile consists of booking requests for the ENTIRE network. If it's a peak week, just imagine how many requests are in there.

From my conversations with SVN, there is ONE person that does this... ONE!

Again, if the second week is a high demand week, with lots of early morning calls, it is VERY likely, that a multi-week owner will not get a great timestamp for their second week.

The "unofficial" policy is the original timestamp for the original week is kept as a note attached to all subsequent reservations. Call me anal, but I want the "official" timestamp to have the very best time I can get for my entire vacation. I don't want any surprises.

What you have written maybe true; but in practical terms our friends who have two OV weeks in WKORV make one booking and they stay in the same 2-bed-room lockoff unit for both the weeks during the past three years. Their second week booking timestamp seems irrelevant to them.

In fact they just avoid WKORV on their second Saturday since it is such a Zoo at the front desk and they go to Hana instead. WKORV staff are very friendly/accomodative to multi-week owners & they seem to always get their room requests also. BTW they are not 3-star Elites either because one of their weeks was bought resale.

 

[Ken555]

Wow. I stop reading TUG for a few days and *this* is what I come back to?

I assume SW has the right to change the Elite program however it likes. However, would this change not be considered a "reduction of services". If the Elite program was used as a primary means to encourage sales, could SW be required to honor the program? I'm sure they're not, but it's food for thought. I suggest a petition...there are plenty of free petition sites on the web which will host this...

Well, a week or so ago I was crunching numbers (along with many of you, I'm sure!) after all those positive 5* Elite posts. Now, I have almost no reason whatsoever to puchase *any* SVN properties direct. In fact, like others on this board, my next t/s purchase may be a Hyatt or other so I could go to other locations. In business I don't ever put all my eggs in one basket, and it seems I (we) should do the same with our t/s's.

BTW, what's to say they wouldn't renege on the Platinum for Life, either? For those of you who have this great benefit, did your contract stipulate how long it would last, and/or does SW have the right to change the program benefits without your approval? What's in the fine print, and are you *sure* they can't change it so it's value is primarily removed?

 

[Ken555]

As long as I’ve got some time to rant, I should note that I was recently able to book, not one, not two, but three, count ‘em THREE large one bedroom villas at Westin Mission Hills Villas for late October 2007 via Interval International “Getaways” for cheap.

We may see you there! I've been reserving weeks at WMH via II's Getaway for two years now, and the Fall is great there. We had three units last year and it worked great. I believe this is just excess inventory / II deposits. Sometimes they have 2-bed units avaiable via II...

 

[KOR5Star]

It may be instaneous in your computer time - but not theirs - try it some time in realtime with TicketMaster (or the like) when there is a major event that goes on sale - it takes a while for their side to process.

Is this the system you propose? What's happening while you wait... countless others are getting their tickets in front of you? Sounds just as broken to me.

Oh, btw - these are not easility scanned.

"Scanned"? Nobody is scanning anything. The image is identified, warped and a character recognition algorithm is run on the all the intermediate results until a recognizable character is found. It does this until it can't find any more characters. It orders the characters in sequence based on location (because the first characters are not necessarily the first resolved). Takes about 500ms for a six character passcode. I call that pretty darn easy.

Anyway... I wasn't looking to be agreed with - it is like arguing about gravity in a way - the system needs serious fixing and IT WOULD BE a cost savings to do so (in the long run)

The idea that a change would save money is an assumption. Indeed you could be right. It could be an old outdated system. On the other hand, it could be a current system that saves a bunch of money in other, more cost sensitive areas for the company.

We are not customers. We are owners. I'm sure the cost of running the reservation system is passed down to us in our MFs. Starwood would value economical performance in other aspects of their business over one that is paid for by someone else.

It has been my experience, in this new age of all encompassing systems like SAP, that no one system does great at everything. In fact, it usually sucks big wind at a few things.

Don't assume that simply because it's not convenient for us that money can be saved for the company. There's a bigger picture to consider.

And sometimes it's just better to "go with the devil you know". It may seem outdated to you, but in the end it's as fair as it can be. IMHO, it's inconvenient, but not broken.

The biggest improvement they could make is to delay the time at which they start taking reservations. This would make it more convenient for West Coasters to make their reservations.

Being from Long Island, this is not an issue for me, but I'd be more than willing to wait another hour for the benefit of my West Coast timeshare brethren.

 

[pointsjunkie]

Wow. I stop reading TUG for a few days and *this* is what I come back to?

I assume SW has the right to change the Elite program however it likes. However, would this change not be considered a "reduction of services". If the Elite program was used as a primary means to encourage sales, could SW be required to honor the program? I'm sure they're not, but it's food for thought. I suggest a petition...there are plenty of free petition sites on the web which will host this...

Well, a week or so ago I was crunching numbers (along with many of you, I'm sure!) after all those positive 5* Elite posts. Now, I have almost no reason whatsoever to puchase *any* SVN properties direct. In fact, like others on this board, my next t/s purchase may be a Hyatt or other so I could go to other locations. In business I don't ever put all my eggs in one basket, and it seems I (we) should do the same with our t/s's.

BTW, what's to say they wouldn't renege on the Platinum for Life, either? For those of you who have this great benefit, did your contract stipulate how long it would last, and/or does SW have the right to change the program benefits without your approval? What's in the fine print, and are you *sure* they can't change it so it's value is primarily removed?

can they take away the platinum for life???? hoe is this perk written in the eliye papers? is there anyway they can take it away? please respond to this, i will not become a 5* if their is any possibility that they can revoke platinum for life after you have it.

 

[Cathyb]

Yes, having an advantage on a waitlist in a hard-to-get location like Harborside is brutal -- better yet, deadly for us one weekers. More importantly the value of Westin Mission hills in reselling because of the initiation of the mandatory and non-mandatory category. When we bought, none of this was in existence -- and who knows what the future has for us. I am one sad Westin owner