Change in SVN ELITE benefits

[Denise L]

Well, I'm sure it says somewhere in the fine print, "subject to change," right? That's how it always is and always has been. Just like hotels requiring more Starpoints, the system is constantly being reevaluated.

I think that Starwood made this change because it was no longer something they could even promise as a perk, since most of the time they could not offer it. So they were probably getting Elite members complaining about how they didn't get an upgrade all the time. I suppose they could say instead, "As an Elite member, there is a very small chance that you might get an upgrade, but don't count on it and please don't complain, we are tired of you expecting something that we can't guarantee." I mean, what do you do when the occupancy is so high? It says a lot that our resorts are so popular with owners. I would think that would be a positive thing?

I suppose if Starwood limited the amount of Elites to match the unoccupied units, then they could possibly make the promise of villa upgrades?

I'm not defending the practice of making promises and breaking them, but this is why they have the fine print. Things are always changing. Lazy river, no lazy river. Two buildings, oh, it's three now. Room service, yes and then no, and then yes (I think). Pool open 24 hours, then pool hours are posted. Slide opens at 8 AM, then changes to 10 AM. Just ask for more amenities, oh, sorry, no more extra dishwashing detergent. Plenty of underground parking for everyone, not! When you buy your other EOY, you won't be charged any more for the SVN fee, but we pay $31.30.

They did promise us fabulous vacations every year, which Starwood delivers on. I'd buy more weeks if I could afford them, for the vacations, not the perks that may or may not be there tomorrow. I just hope that the timestamp still rules .

When we bought our home, the developer told us that they were going to build a park across the street. Instead, they filled in the area and built an unrelated neighborhood of 20 houses, blocking our view. I'm sure there must have been some fine print somewhere....

Sorry to hear that so many Elites are upset .

 

[DeniseM]

We're just regular owners ...no star!
So there's no more upgrades ...at all?! In April we were even upgraded for our 1 night in the studio, they gave us an oceanview deluxe..I guess that won't even happen any more??!

Good question! - as "regular" owners, we have been upgraded three times:

One side of our lock-off - upgraded from OV to OF studio
Rental - upgraded from IV to OV studio
Rental - upgraded from IV to OF studio

David - don't be a stranger!

 

[Denise L]

I would guess that upgrades would be offered if available, but should not be expected or demanded. Isn't that what hotels do? (I don't stay in hotels anymore...only timeshares )

 

[mariawolf]

Well I guess the point is that it looks like even if they are there they won't be offered or given--why let a unit stay empty when an owner could upgrade to it--in most cases they will be able to rent the smaller/less expensive unit as there are always folks bargain shopping.
It is interesting everyone is away based on their auto response e mails.
It will be interesting to see if they even respond.

 

[Negma]

I have sent two letters and will continue to fight this. We have been upgraded several times from the small to large one bedroom and it makes for a nicer experience.

This seems to be a decision made by people that do not talk to their customers. Keep the pressure on them because this is ridiculus.

I do not buy this 90% argument, then make upgrades avalible for 5*, a reason for others to buy more. Just not good marketing.

 

[Bill4728]

Why does this surprise any of you??

This is the company which choose to make the newest phase of VV voluntary!! How could any company be selling units in 2 phases of the same resort and have a week be in a mandatory phase and one be in a voluntary phase. I bet they don't tell their buyer that by buying in the voluntary phase they automatically lose more than 1/2 the resale value of the TS.

 

[Westin5Star]

While I agree that not upgrading the unit size is extremely disappointing, what I'd really like to know is if they will still upgrade the view category for elite members?

Westin5Star, did Starwood say anything about that?

Also, I wonder if this will have any impact on the pecking order of how units are assigned. Will elite members have any edge in room assignments over non-elites?

I don't quite get Starwood's rationale for dropping this benefit--surely one of the most popular of elite membership. So what if it is only available occasionally--once in a while is still a nice perk!

Glorian

The person that I talked to specifically said that there is NO MORE upgrades for views either. We specifically discussed with regarding WKORV.

We did not discuss any advantages on timestamps for Elite members but I am pretty sure that they would have mentioned this. He was trying to say anything he could to make me happy with Starwood's decision. I will say that he was very nice and professional in defending Starwood.

He kept referring to the survey that was sent to all Elite members. He said that the results that came back showed that most 5* Elite members were not even interested in the auto villa upgrade; hard to believe.

 

[Negma]

I replied to that survey and I clearly said that was one of the big benefits. This is truely sad news and we will fight and annoy them until they change.

So I just called, the representative was very nice and took the company line. Apparently there are few upgrades ever available and they have been looking at this for awhile. I must have just been lucky, does not feel like that now. She said many people do convert to points-we discussed that bad decision-but it is the way it is.

She also gave me a snail mail address to complain to as well:
Elite member services
Attn:Kasey Clements
9002 San Marco Court
Orlando Fl 92819

She said I was the first call she had received. I just beleive that there must be a comprimise here. My guess is this change will also reduce the number of phone calls they get.

 

[formerhater]

This is disappointing as the program was designed as an incentive to encourage owners to purchase multiple weeks. Now that many of us have, they taketh away. Why not discontinue the perk for new elites, while allowing existing ones to keep the perks they were offered to get them to buy?

 

[mariawolf]

Here is reply I got--
Dear Maria,



Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns with me regarding the change in the villa upgrade benefit. I would like the opportunity to speak with you directly and will be calling you later this afternoon to discuss.



Regards,



Suzanne Clark

Vice President Owner Service

Starwood Vacation Ownership

Office: 407-903-4621

Cell: 407-342-6378

 

[Henry M.]

I got back the exact same e-mail as Maria, word-for-word. Ms. Clark will be busy on the phone this afternoon!

Henry

 

[DavidnRobin]

Here is reply I got--
Dear Maria,

Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns with me regarding the change in the villa upgrade benefit. I would like the opportunity to speak with you directly and will be calling you later this afternoon to discuss.

Regards,

Suzanne Clark
Vice President Owner Service
Starwood Vacation Ownership
Office: 407-903-4621
Cell: 407-342-6378

Well - I just got off the phone with Suzanne. I was amazed actually - I figured maybe an associate would call. Nice touch for a VP to call - and a very pleasant call (of course).

It is unlikely that the Villa Upgrade would be reinstated (unless there is an extreme uproar). I stated - why take the benefit away even if a villa upgrade is only occuring 10% of the time. She stated that the reason it was discontinued was because of Elite members dissatisfaction of not getting villa upgardes (big surprise there - I have seen this 'Elite'-ism occur in person). I said - perhaps it would be better to reset Elites expectations - afterall it is based on availability.

Anyway - we had a nice chat. I got a chance to discuss a few of the issues I see with some of the SVO/SVN practices (SP devaluation) - and that the SO-SP conversion was not a benefit that was useful to us (why would I do this with OF WKORV, WPORV, or WSJ?). Although - I imagine there are folks who find it very useful - not us. Therefore - the only real benefit (Villa Upgrade) is gone - why shoot for 4*/5*? She listened well as I expect a VP to do - and said that she would discuss with the Executive Commitee that ideas that she (and others) is gathering from her discussions with Elite members.

She asked to contact her if there were other things that Elite members would like to see as a benefit. I added - priority in unit location (sorry tuggers - selfish on my part - but as I wrote previously - this would be a major benefit for Elites over non-Elites - causing more folks to buy SVO VOIs - which is their goal afterall) Don't hate me...

btw, the Avis program was stopped from the Avis side - not theirs.

She also said that she has been reading this thread... I hope that is true.

Later - off to WSJ in 13 days...

Check out this video link on St John that I saw on VINOW - perfect...
http://www.travelistic.com/user/videos/AndrewBurnett

 

[Time2Ponder]

She asked to contact her if there were other things that Elite members would like to see as a benefit. I added - priority in unit location (sorry tuggers - selfish on my part - but as I wrote previously - this would be a major benefit for Elites over non-Elites - causing more folks to buy SVO VOIs - which is their goal afterall) Don't hate me...

There exists a potential problem with this approach, however: If, as a West Coaster, I arise at 4:45 AM exactly a year in advance to get a great time stamp on my reservation, only to have my initiative blown away by an elite member who reserved in the late afternoon four months after I reserved, I'd get understandably peeved at Starwood. I'm betting that people who own just one or two weeks are the Starwood target audience -- and it would benefit Starwood not to aggravate them. Perhaps a compromise would be to grant elites favored status (i.e., bump them up) over non-elites when they make their reservations on the same day?

At any rate, not knowing exactly what effect the elite program has on views, locations, etc. (as well as how often the program will change) makes me less likely to purchase from the developer in the future.


Kim

 

[duke]

She also said that she has been reading this thread... I hope that is true.

Starwood IS reading and distributing this thread.

They are receiving our e-mails and distributing them also.

 

[mariawolf]

I also got the call and I do think she is viewing this site.
Very pleasant conversation and although I think it is pretty hopeless I would continue the contact.
They are looking at other benefits like a priority check in line/special lounge--not important to me-- never have a problem at Harborside.
Their feeling is why to have most elites unhappy with not ever getting upgraded to the small amount happy with being upgraded. My point was if there is availability at check in and someone asks it doesn't make sense to not get an upgrade--she did seem to be sympathetic to that point but I think unless folks keep on this no changes will be made.
I agree it was pretty classy to have someone return the calls!
But I still think taking that perk away just doesn't make sense.
Also FYI I did bring up that at St John they provide Starbucks coffee, detergent etc. while at Harborside they don't and she says she will pass that along as there should be some consistency--
Others out there do they provide it at other locations also?
Keep the thread going and productive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mariawolf]

Other interesting info she provided is that 24% of owners convert yearly.
My comment to that is that at somewhere like Harborside where the fee is over $2200 per year it doesn't make sense to do that--I think she said Mission Hills has the highest percentage of owners converting--don't know anything about that resort or why it would be so high there.

 

[MON2REY]

I have no Elite status and am sure I never will. I have nothing against 4* or 5* Elites getting all the benefits they can but I don't think it should be at a cost to non-Elites. Increase SP's or discounts, give additional maid service, or....; but do not give them preference as to views or upgrades. We all paid what we did for our units with the understanding that we will get what we paid for as long as we play by the rules. If we get up early to make our reservations at the earliest possible moment, then we should be able to reap the benefits of doing so.

 

[grgs]

Increase SP's or discounts, give additional maid service, or....; but do not give them preference as to views or upgrades.

I agree that they shouldn't get preference over owners at a particular resorts, but I'm ok with elites getting some preference of location over other non-elites using StarOptions. Someone who owns OV at WKORV should expect to get OV (as long as they make their reservation in the 8-12 mo. window). But for an elite member using StarOptions, it would be reasonable for them to get consideration over a non-elite member.

I wonder if the importance of time-stamp and pecking order applies once you're inside of the 8 mos. window?

Glorian

 

[seenett]

Let me play devil's advocate :annoyed:

I have been reading this thread with great interest. I have been a SVN member since 2001 and I don't have Elite status, but I think I have a good idea of how it works. I never felt that I should go out and buy more Starwood units just to reach Elite status - eben 5* doesn't seem worth the price.

The ONLY sure thing in Starwood (and other timeshares) is what is recorded on your deed. That is not subject to change. Everything else is, including the SVN program and Elite benefits. It is even possible for a resort's HOA to completely severe all ties with SVN, if they so desire. I wrote the first version of TUG's SVN FAQ in 2002 there have been several changes (i.e. tweaking) of the system - StarOption re-valuations and the introduction of Elite to name a few. SVN isn't even 10 years old yet and they are still growing like crazy - there will always be issues that will change.

Villa Upgrades: I totally agree that if there really are very few upgrades available, then the disappointment of not getting one can be a real let down to the owner. I am sitting on 80,000 United Airline miles that I can never seem to redeem. UA would rather wait until boarding in the hopes they can sell a full fare first class seat to someone else rather than give it to me. I would prefer they tell me that upgrades will not be available than keep stringing me along. No organization wants to set itself up for a negative customer response. As harsh as it sounds, if Starwood removes the expectation, they also remove the disappointment. From my understanding, the upgrades were based on availability - meaning (for example) no "non-Elite" ocean front owner would be displaced in favor of an Island View Elite. BUT, perception is reality. If a non-Elite IV owner was not upgraded at his home resort but an Elite owner from another Starwood resort was, this perception can also create disappointment. I'm sure Starwood is hearing complaints from non-Elites who are under the mistaken belief that they should be upgraded at their home resort.

AVIS - I don't know the exact benefit, but was it that much better that AWD codes available by being members of a hotel/airline points program?

STARPOINTS - So now Elites can convert their units to a higher number of StarPoints? I agree that StarPoint conversion is usually a losing proposition and a 10% increase won't make it a much better deal. We, as educated TUG members, already know this. I have a feeling that the vast majority of 5* members have never heard of TUG and probably think this is a great new benefit. I wonder how many people with SERIOUS money bought 4 or 5 (or more) developer weeks in Hawaii or Harborside just to be Elite,without analyzing the total costs involved? These are Starwood's ideal owners and they probably think this new program is great. Perception is reaity again.

All this being said, it is just my opinion. I also agree that any current Elite members have the absolute right to complain to Starwood if they are not happy with the changes.

 

[DeniseM]

Villa Upgrades: I totally agree that if there really are very few upgrades available, then the disappointment of not getting one can be a real let down to the owner....As harsh as it sounds, if Starwood removes the expectation, they also remove the disappointment.

I agree with Chris on this - at check-in, I have heard Elite Owners raising holy heck because they expected an upgrade and didn't get one. Tuggers know the score, but think about the zillions of others out there that BELIEVE everything the sales people tell them and think they are GUARANTEED an upgrade every time! However, if Starwood is going to remove the formal policy, I think they should still offer upgrades informally, when available. I see no sense in letting units stand empty! Of course, I think they should offer them to us lowly, 1 week owners too!

 

[duke]

The idea that limited villa upgrade availability should lead to removal of that benefit makes little sense. If the opportunity to upgrade your villa is removed then anyone with an IV unit will have to stay in the IV......even if OV is available. And those with small 1 br units will have to stay in their small 1 br even if a large 1 br is available.

Under this logic it may be better to wait until <8 months out and make a reservation using StarOptions. Here your unit designation will not matter and you can reserve a better view or larger unit if available. Moreover, an owner from another SVN resort may get a better room because he had to make the reservation using StarOptions.

Let's get real, if there is any chance of an upgrade then it is better to have that chance rather than not.

By the way, these villas are not owned by Starwood. They are owned by us and we pay a large management fee to have Starwood manage them for "us".

 

[rocky]

I have tried like DavidnRobin, to let people use the search and take a break from posting..... it's been a year or so now. I was active back in the day, on the old software. But I read still to entertain myself and stay on top of what goes on.... and sometimes I just have to weigh-in.

And this change in Elite benefits, in conjunction with the recent devaluation of starpoints values in relation to our units is SO INSULTING it's painful. And I say that as a non-elite SVO owner.

Seriously. In about 5 years, when all the new units are nice and worn, and one grows tired of dealing with 16 year old interlopers in the jacuzzi at 10pm that live at other hotels. And that thimbleful of laundry soap won't wash the two towels they left for the six people in your party starts to get on your nerves...... one can reflect on how at least their Elite membership is worth 4 days at a Four Points Sheraton in Barstow...... and it will make it all worth while.

 

[Tony&Perry]

Rip Off

The point is - they used the Elite membership as a sales promotion and people bought expecting this advantage. Now it is removed. I am staying at WKV right now and purchased a EOY at Cancun 2 days ago thinking I would lockoff and use the smaller unit for options to exchange and then upgrade if available. Obviously I would pick a low season resort for that and I am sure availability would be there (eg WKV in August). Now that has gone. I have called the sales office here, the salesman, manager, quality assurance manager, and emailed 3 people at central saying I would cancel my purchase. No one returned my messages!!!! I think that speaks a lot about what to expect in the future.

 

[wannagotoo]

When we were considering buying a unit, the salesperson explained in detail the benefits of the Elite Program. We weighed the options; upgrade to one bedroom from studio/upgrade of view, and decided to buy 3 additional units. The upgrade benefit was the majority of the sales presentation and we bought based on that benefit. I don't understand how they can remove it because they polled other people and the other people didn't think it was valuable. Starwood offered the upgrade possibility with 5 Star, we accepted and bought 4 units. That's like polling freeway drivers to see if they benefit from hybrids using the carpool lane. Who cares! The people who bought the hybrids bought on the idea that they would have that benefit.

 

[skim118]

I have sympathy for the SVN Elites who were clearly over-promised about the upgrade possibilities.

The SVN Elites should rightfully get first dibs at upgrade possiblities at the time of check-in at least.

But promising 90/30-day advance upgrade to Elites was a costly mistake from SVN's point of view. By upgrading a SVN Elite from a studio to a 1-bed unit at the 90-day limit, SVN is preventing another SVN member from getting the full 2-bed-rm lockoff unit for the same week in the ensuing 90 days.

I guess if you want to stay 2 weeks in a row in a 1-bed rm unit then you should buy 2 1-bed rm weeks.

Unlike Hotel upgrades the difference between a studio unit and the 1-bed rm unit for 1 week is so large I always wondered how sustainable is this financial model for SVN ?