Change in SVN ELITE benefits

[KOR5Star]

can they take away the platinum for life???? hoe is this perk written in the eliye papers? is there anyway they can take it away? please respond to this, i will not become a 5* if their is any possibility that they can revoke platinum for life after you have it.

They can take away EVERYTHING.

Nothing is set in stone except the particular unit and particular week you own.

The only question is "How likely is it that these things will be eventually taken away?"

The answer is everything that is unique to Starwood is the most likely. If, for whatever reason, Starwood no longer manages our home resort, we could not expect the perks we receive from Starwood to continue.

It's likely that the basic fundamentals of timesharing (float, membership in an exchange company, etc...) would continue because the owners would want that to continue.

At one point in the distant future, all our timeshare ownership is destined to be sold, proceeds split between owners and creditors, torn down and rebuilt as possibly something completely different. It's inevitable.

But before that happens, expect a few enourmous assessments as things deteriorate and need to be brought back to life... like the roof, the pool, renovating the rooms, etc... It's the same as your house back home. It's new for awhile. You renovate. It's kind of new again. It might be renovated again. It's... sort of new... again. Then when you renovate for the thrid time, there are so many structural problems that it's easier and cheaper to tear it down and build a new place... if the neighborhood remained a good one.

All that talk about willing it to your children and your children's children is just that... talk. What would your great grandchild want with a dilapidated building that would cost him a ton of money every year in MFs just to keep going? What management company would sign up for the headaches to manage a place like that?

 

[Henry M.]

I'm not so sure about this. Approximately 30 people have participated in this thread, with varying degrees of opinion -- in other words, out of the thousands of elites in existence, not many have found their way here to complain.

Tuggers are people who are aware of the subtle ins and outs of TS programs; I'm guessing that most owners, however, (even including elites) are fairly unaware of how their programs work, and thus aren't really all that concerned about the changes.

JMO. YMMV.

Ms. Clark called me as promised Friday afternoon. I was unable to take her call so she left me a message and called again Sunday evening. She is definitely interested in talking to people and opinions expressed here and in direct communications to Starwood are being at least read. I am still willing to give SVN a little time to figure this out.

What I got from the call was that the upgrade benefit was resulting in many dissatisfied owners, particularly 3* who make the vast majority of Elite members. Many started calling every day 30 days out and ended up upset when they didn't get an upgrade. Rather than the benefit being a perk it resulted in negative feelings for many. Perhaps outright canceling it is not the right move and Starwood is seeing what they can do about it. There are no promises but I think things may change again in the next couple of months.

I do give Ms. Clark high marks for taking the time to talk to owners that have written to express concerns. She spent quite a long time with me on the phone, during a weekend. She seems very reasonable, not just repeating a company line but genuinely thinking about alternatives and the issues associated with them. If she is able to follow through with her ideas I think things will change for the better in the not too distant future. I do not think this was some sort of conspiracy to enable SVN to have more rooms available for rent or to somehow stick it to the Elites. I'm still more or less satisfied with the overall program. If they restore the upgrade benefit and do something about the Starpoint devaluation so the benefits are like when I first purchased, then I will be very satisfied again.

 

[duke]

If they restore the upgrade benefit and do something about the Starpoint devaluation so the benefits are like when I first purchased, then I will be very satisfied again.

1. Reinstate upgrades for 4* and 5* ELITES. (Eliminates the complaints from 3* elites and reduces the upgrade demand - Only 1300 5* and 900 4*)

2. Implement a tiered starpoint bonus for ELITES: 3* 10%, 4* 15%, and 5* 20%. (Smooths over the SPG hotel starpoint devaluation)

 

[mariawolf]

I still think that if an upgrade is available at check in all elite members should be able to request it--give the call in requests to the 4 & 5 elites and let the 3's have a shot at check in--it still doesn't make sense not to allow them if the rooms are available--or let all just request at check in so that all have a fair shot at them.

 

[skim118]

I find it mildly amusing that now 5* SVN Elites are ready to throw the 3* Elites(sic) back into the land of serfdom. Clearly SVN is succeeding in their divide and conquer tactics !!

In reality the 3* Elites are way more important to SVN due to their larger number and due to the fact that SVN can keep the fantasy of higher Elite levels to push more unit sales to them.

My gut feeling is regardless of SVN corporate schmoozing, Villa upgrades at 90/30 days is history. The marketing guy/gal who proposed it as a sales tool without doing thorough cost analysis is in the same unemployment line as the marketing person who proposed the "all-you can-eat-lobster-deal" at Red Lobster.

 

[Henry M.]

I think all owners should have a shot at the upgrades. Start at the top of the Elite pile and go down the list. If rooms are available and would otherwise be unused, make someone happy. Perhaps non-Elite owners will then want to get a higher elite status to be more likely to get an upgrade. While I think there should be special privileges for those with the highest investment, that shouldn't preclude others from getting some of them.

The issue is that perhaps the expectations are too high right now. No one should be expecting upgrade, much less demanding it to the point of abusing the staff (I've seen this with my own eyes), when they get to say WKORV on July 4th week and they get a less than stellar room on a trade from another property. The upgrade is based on availability and is just a side perk. There are about 14,000 Elites, mostly 3*, competing for that perk and the number appears to be growing fast. If you get an upgrade, fine, but as long as you get what you own, then there shouldn't be any complaints. If you don't own in Maui, then you should have no beef with whatever room you get, just as a Maui owner, regardless of Elite status, should have no beef with "dumpsterville" at WMH if that resort is completely full. Sure you can ask politely for a change but there is no obligation on the part of the resort to give you more than the minimum that corresponds to the StarOptions you own.

On the Starpoint conversion, I would think the conversion rate should be repaired for all owners. As previously suggested, you should be able to get more or less the same rooms at a Westin or Sheraton close to your home resort and the Starpoint conversion should be adjusted to reflect that. Then the bonuses suggested by Duke would be a nice perk for Elites. As it stands right now, even a 20% bonus doesn't put things back to where they were before the category creep and Starpoint devaluation.

 

[rocky]

On the Starpoint conversion, I would think the conversion rate should be repaired for all owners. As previously suggested, you should be able to get more or less the same rooms at a Westin or Sheraton close to your home resort and the Starpoint conversion should be adjusted to reflect that. Then the bonuses suggested by Duke would be a nice perk for Elites. As it stands right now, even a 20% bonus doesn't put things back to where they were before the category creep and Starpoint devaluation.

Agreed. Fix the conversion for all owners. Using fixed point values does not address future devaluations..... because, frankly, this is not the last devaluation we will see. After that give % bonuses ON TOP of adjusted starpoint values to Elites if necessary to reward them for the lost upgrade feature.

The starpoint devaluation is really a super super super serious problem.

As mentioned above, the Platinum program is a nice perk... but anyone who thinks they can't change that program until it's worthless is fooling themselves. Starwood can change it anytime. Starwood could be sold to a private equity firm and they could cancel it..... anything can happen. Anyone who works in Corporate America knows change is constant and nothing is absolute. If the numbers don't work, or it becomes to costly to administer they will strip the program down to a place where it works for them again. No matter how cool being an Elite seems or how nice your sales person is, or how much you think you have out-witted the system with EOY to EY requals and a phone bank of autodialers in Bangalore. It's about business, not vacations and Starwood is always going to make the rules fit their needs.

I used a BOT to write this posting.

 

[Westin5Star]

Upgrades are back???

I just finished my call with Suzanne. She is a real professional. Coming away from the call I got the impression that she is going to be able to make some very positive changes for us as far as villa upgrades but that she obviously could not come out and say this. My feeling is that within a month or so we will receive a revised communication from Starwood. The new policy will likely be that upgrades will be given at checkin, subject to availability, given by preference in order of Elite status (similar to SPG).

She all but assured me that Starwood WILL NOT leave a 1BR unit open next to a 5* owner that is in a studio; even though that is the current "policy".

I also suggested many other potential Elite benefits that she took notes on. We pretty much agreed that the current benefits offered to 5* members is not sufficient and certainly is not going to really help their sales. I would hope that when / if they bring back some form of upgrade policy that it will also be accompanied by some other benefits!

I really feel like the phone calls and emails have and will make a difference so if your voice hasn't yet been heard then.....

I am also going to start a new thread on what I learned about the new Starwood reservation system.

 

[rfb813]

When I bought recently at Vistana Villages I bought to increase the StarOptions to allow a trade into any of the resorts. We were original Vistana Falls owners who upgraded to Cascades when SVN was created by Starwood the new owners. This recent puchase allowed me to become a 3* Elite which had only had one advantage to me and that was the ability to convert to StarPoints annually. I never expected to use the upgrade feature since at the 3* level it seem very unlikely I would get to use it. While many don't believe in conversion to StarPoints for us it provides additional flexibility in the use of the various timeshares (11 weeks) we own. Many times our family will use all weeks and sometimes we don't and use the Starpoints, Marriott Rewards, Hilton Honors and Four Seasons Cash we receive form a convesrion to travel to locations where no timeshares exist. Our family loves the flexibility.

The added time to decide on the conversion which has been announced is of interest to me and perhaps other Elite Owners. However as I indicated in an earlier post in this thread Starwood should not eliminate the ability of an upgrade. There are ways to handle this problem.

In addition, I agree with the idea of increasing the Starpoints conversion. While the costs of hotel rooms has gone up and the increased Starpoints are meant to reflect this, the value of a unit week for Starwood as a rental or other use has also increased as well the maintenance costs associated with the week. The conversion should refect this.

 

[soccer321]

Hello all,
I have not posted here in quite a while, but I do look in every once in a while. I became an elite member when the program first started. The only benefit that is of any value to me is the CHANCE to have the ability to upgrade. I realize, like all the other adults who became elite members, that I would not always get an upgrade, but IF one was available,I would have a CHANCE to get it. Somehow I was able to understand this concept.
First, ALL people who work for starwood are salespeople, whether they actually work in the sales department or in customer service. You can bet your bottom dollar that they are repeating the company line whenever they speak to any customer, no matter what your level, elite or not. They will ALWAYS put the company line before the truth.
If you actually believe that they are taking your ability to upgrade away because it was making so many of us unhappy, than you still must believe that everything a timeshare salesperson / customer service person says is always true. (Most of us learned that lesson the hard way, didn't we?)
I just love the way that starwood is taking away the main reason so many of us have paid them so much money in order to become "elite", AND at the same time actually trying to convince us that they are doing it for our own good (to keep you from POSSIBLY becoming dissatisfied). I just hope that for starwoods next anniversary congratulations card they don't decide to take away all the pool chairs because they read about our dissatisfaction in finding empty ones at some of their resorts. Problems in any service in a service industry should be corrected, not simply removed.
I am glad to hear that when several of you have spoken to the elite customer service that they have been so pleasant. I guess they haven't spent the money that we have, and I am sure that makes being pleasant easier.
The bottom line concerning their action is , well it is the bottom line($$$$$). Many of your posts have alluded to this. Until they actually believe that their action will impact their profits, they will not do a thing.
With the large number of posts on this topic, this issue could serve as a springboard for someone with INTEGRITY in the starwood organization to actually make responsiveness to their loyal customer base a fact rather than an empty phrase. After all, it is in starwoods best interest to have its loyal customers speaking to and refering other people to the SVN. We really do want starwood to succeed, and starwood must start to respect their clientel (and the power of the internet) in order to become even better.

 

[KOR5Star]

I think all owners should have a shot at the upgrades. Start at the top of the Elite pile and go down the list. If rooms are available and would otherwise be unused, make someone happy. Perhaps non-Elite owners will then want to get a higher elite status to be more likely to get an upgrade. While I think there should be special privileges for those with the highest investment, that shouldn't preclude others from getting some of them.

I think all elites, but that's it, not everyone. It should run like the hotels. We all get upgraded AT CHECK-IN. First the platinums get the upgrades, then the golds. "Normal" guests get the room they booked. It should be the same for SVN. Otherwise, the better rooms will take a non-stop beating and result in an early assesment for renovations on those rooms.

But one thing is clear in my mind. ALL ELITES should be eligible for an upgrade, not just 4* or 5*... EVERY ELITE.

The issue is that perhaps the expectations are too high right now.

This is a result of poor communication and outright lies from salespeople. This is where the problem begins. That should be addressed to head off future upset owners.

The current program where people keep calling each day is flawed. Every day a 3* gets their hopes up "Maybe today is the day!". They call and get dissapointed... again! This madness needs to end. Let all upgrades occur at check-in for everyone. No calls... Orlando can't help you. It's in the control of the front desk on the day of arrival. End of story.

On the Starpoint conversion, I would think the conversion rate should be repaired for all owners. As previously suggested, you should be able to get more or less the same rooms at a Westin or Sheraton close to your home resort and the Starpoint conversion should be adjusted to reflect that. Then the bonuses suggested by Duke would be a nice perk for Elites. As it stands right now, even a 20% bonus doesn't put things back to where they were before the category creep and Starpoint devaluation.

I'll second that suggestion. The ongoing devaluation is of great concern.

 

[Negma]

Well I am encouraged. It sounds like we are making progress. I do believe that if they handle the upgrades as they do in hotels we will all win. If it is available great, if not, at least the place is booked. Also sinilar to airline upgrades.

The piece about the points will have to change too. It was interesting that in my discussion with Suzanne, she told me that they buy the points from starwood. It sounded like they all need to get on the same page for the company to make this a win for the organization.

The dialogue in this thread has been very helpful.

 

[mariawolf]

Although I guess if I were a 4/5 I would not be happy to wait till check in but maybe doing it at check in is the most fair--I will repeat that not doing any upgrades and letting larger rooms/room with views sit empty does not make any sense!
Hotel upgrades at check in have been going on for years!

 

[Time2Ponder]

I think all elites, but that's it, not everyone. It should run like the hotels. We all get upgraded AT CHECK-IN. First the platinums get the upgrades, then the golds. "Normal" guests get the room they booked. It should be the same for SVN. Otherwise, the better rooms will take a non-stop beating and result in an early assesment for renovations on those rooms.

I disagree that the "better" rooms will take a beating. Consider what's happening now: most owners who rent choose to rent out the studio side of their lock-offs. It seems far more likely that these "unattractive" rooms take a greater beating at the hands of non-owners (and will continue to do so), even in the scenario you invision.

Generally, with regard to maintenance costs, a room is a room is a room. Maintenance costs of a 1BR should not be significantly higher than maintenance costs of a studio (incrementally speaking).

If a better room is available, it is in Starwood's best business interests to upgrade ANYONE (regardless of owner/elite status) to said room. It builds good will and may make non-owners take a good, long look at the possibility of buying Starwood. Besides that, it costs Starwood nothing to make this happen.

 

[KOR5Star]

I used a BOT to write this posting.

:rofl:
ROTFLMAO

 

[KOR5Star]

I disagree that the "better" rooms will take a beating. Consider what's happening now: most owners who rent choose to rent out the studio side of their lock-offs. It seems far more likely that these "unattractive" rooms take a greater beating at the hands of non-owners (and will continue to do so), even in the scenario you invision.

Generally, with regard to maintenance costs, a room is a room is a room. Maintenance costs of a 1BR should not be significantly higher than maintenance costs of a studio (incrementally speaking).

If a better room is available, it is in Starwood's best business interests to upgrade ANYONE (regardless of owner/elite status) to said room. It builds good will and may make non-owners take a good, long look at the possibility of buying Starwood. Besides that, it costs Starwood nothing to make this happen.

Why haven't hotels discovered this logic yet. They should upgrade as many people coming through the door as possible. It would make good business sense, right?

Maintanence is not the same. It goes by square footage. The 900 square foot 1BR commands a significantly larger share of the MF than the Studio. There is more furniture/fixtures, more air to heat/cool, etc... in a 1BR than a Studio.

 

[Henry M.]

Why haven't hotels discovered this logic yet. They should upgrade as many people coming through the door as possible. It would make good business sense, right?

A hotel can always get a last minute paying guest that wants one of the better rooms. This is unlikely to happen at a timeshare since most owners make reservations months in advance. By the time check-in day comes along they pretty much know what rooms will be used over the next week and the situation is not likely to change. Thus you can upgrade people. As a 5*, I want first dibs on those upgrades, but I don't mind if someone else also benefits after I've been taken care of.

 

[bud_baker]

I must say that this has been one of the more interesting threads I've ever read.. I've learned something about coding, bots, engineering, statistics, data banks, elitisim, surfdom, and the list goes on.. and maybe the most important lesson from all of this is maybe I really don't want to buy that "rock solid" 2 BR Vistana Villages platinum.. that the money is better invested and then renting from owners looking to cover their M.F.s for the year.. the art of the deal ;0)

 

[KOR5Star]

A hotel can always get a last minute paying guest that wants one of the better rooms. This is unlikely to happen at a timeshare since most owners make reservations months in advance. By the time check-in day comes along they pretty much know what rooms will be used over the next week and the situation is not likely to change. Thus you can upgrade people. As a 5*, I want first dibs on those upgrades, but I don't mind if someone else also benefits after I've been taken care of.

A couple of things...

Half my visits are planned. The other half are spontaneous. When I went to Maui in March, it was because I was getting stressed by Long Island's Winter weather and I needed some time in my "Happy place". I quite literally booked a studio while we were in the limo on the way to JFK. Next, I bought my tickets, because I was buying airline tickets to where ever I could get in. I appreciated the upgrade to a 1BR. It took that much more of the Winter edge off.

I tend to believe everyone is like me, so I'll suggest I'm not the only 5* doing this. We own some much time, how could you plan so far in advance for all of them?

Your analogy to a hotel is flawed. Hotels DO know, for the most part, who is coming and for how long. Walk-ins happen, but they are not the norm. And the later into the evening you get, the more unlikely they are to happen.

If your logic holds, "normal" guests should be upgraded to suites in hotels after... say... 8 or 9PM?

No. Upgrades should be for Elites only. If you think 3 stars are getting upset over not getting an upgrade, just imagine the chaos when EVERYONE gets an upgrade. It's an altruistic thought, but unworkable and unnecessarily expensive.

 

[Time2Ponder]

Maintanence is not the same. It goes by square footage.

This is why I said "incrementally speaking". As the square footage increases, the MFs will increase. In other words, the difference between a studio and a 1BR is comparable to the difference between a BMW 5-series and a BMW 7-series; it is not comparable to the difference between a BMW 7-series and a Yugo.

 

[Time2Ponder]

Your analogy to a hotel is flawed. Hotels DO know, for the most part, who is coming and for how long. Walk-ins happen, but they are not the norm. And the later into the evening you get, the more unlikely they are to happen.

Hotels (especially those in major metropolitan areas) are likely to hold out some luxury rooms in the hope of acquiring some last-minute business travelers whose companies are paying full freight for their lodgings. If only a suite is available, then the company, alas, pays.

This is not the case with TSs, who are always looking out for the next possible owner/multi-owner, whom they really want to impress.

 

[Denise L]

This thread makes me thankful that I was never on the Titanic with all of these Elites...surely there would be no room in the lifeboat for me .

 

[KOR5Star]

This is why I said "incrementally speaking". As the square footage increases, the MFs will increase. In other words, the difference between a studio and a 1BR is comparable to the difference between a BMW 5-series and a BMW 7-series; it is not comparable to the difference between a BMW 7-series and a Yugo.

I don't understand your point. Maybe because your analogy doesn't resemble the MF difference between a studio and a 1BR.

Area of a studio is 500 square feet.
Area of a 1BR is 900 square feet... almost double.

Starwood simply divides the property cost into the number of square feet of units. We actually pay per square foot.

Almost double doesn't seem like an insignificant difference to me.

 

[Henry M.]

I quite literally booked a studio while we were in the limo on the way to JFK. Next, I bought my tickets, because I was buying airline tickets to where ever I could get in. I appreciated the upgrade to a 1BR. It took that much more of the Winter edge off.

I did something similar January of last year (except I did give myself from Friday to Sunday to get home, pick up my wife and pack). I also got upgraded. I wouldn't expect this to work during the summer, though. You probably won't even get the view you paid for because of exchangers. Such a short notice trip is pretty rare, though. I don't think many people would undertake such a long trip without a couple of day's notice. As long as you had more than one day's notice you'd be covered in the proposed scheme because you'd be at the top of the list when rooms are assigned.

I'm not trying to get benefits for anybody other than myself, I just wouldn't mind if someone else got something similar to me as long as the program worked. I'd be more concerned about too many people getting into the Elite program really impacting other benefits (like early check-in/late check-out), than allowing unused rooms to be used by anybody at the resort on a given week.

 

[KOR5Star]

Hotels (especially those in major metropolitan areas) are likely to hold out some luxury rooms in the hope of acquiring some last-minute business travelers whose companies are paying full freight for their lodgings. If only a suite is available, then the company, alas, pays.

This is not the case with TSs, who are always looking out for the next possible owner/multi-owner, whom they really want to impress.

I'm sure we could search for a particular hotel that actually gets a decent amount of last minute biz travelers, but let's all take a giant step back to reality, OK?

Let's compare apples to apples for a minute. How many "walk-ins" do you thing The Westin Maui gets? How about the Maui Sheraton? I'd dare guess very few. Well.. I have to confess. I KNOW it's damn few because I just got off the phone with both hotels. They said it's very rare. I'd also dare to say MOST hotels in resort areas would experience about the same amount.

A quick call to my a Sheraton here on Long Island has just confirmed the same thing. It happens, but it's not the norm.

So, back to your argument about hotels and last minute renters. It's an inaccurate assumption on your part.

The daily usage cost of a 1BR are almost twice that of a studio. Your basis for offering upgrades seems to assume the cost of staying in a studio or 1BR are comparable.

Your altruistic suggestion would cost us quite a bit of money each year.