[ 2021 ] Major Change to Wyndham VIP Program in Email 7/19/2021 [MERGED]

[HitchHiker71]

No need to use hybrid points to complete a resale reservation. Just borrow from next year's resale bucket

Yes - but that assumes you're making a reservation in the express window, and given most folks with hybrid accounts are probably going to use their resale points for larger points reservations farther out than 90 days - borrowing from the future use year often isn't going to be a valid option.

 

[bnoble]

...except as a portion of the last night's stay, which is surprisingly helpful.

 

[paxsarah]

...except as a portion of the last night's stay, which is surprisingly helpful.

Part of me wants to ask @HitchHiker71 to check with their Wyndham contacts about whether this change to borrowing is intentional and permanent, but most of me wants to leave well enough alone and hope it stays. Or maybe it gets spelled out in the upcoming new directory.

 

[jbroner]

The other problem will be dead points. You don't have either enough VIP or Non-VIP to make the reservation and not enough of either to make any reservation, so these points are effectively dead.

Maybe they will reduce the 10K minimum to deposit into RCI.

 

[VacayKat]

Answers from Wyndham on our outstanding list of questions below. The answers provided have been officially reviewed and approved by Wyndham for public consumption:

• What, if any effect, does this change have for things like using outrigger banked points in future years to book longer stays at outrigger locations? So e.g. if you bank all outrigger account points from 2021 to 2022 can you book ALL those points at outrigger in 2022?
  • Yes all points should be useable in future use years - no changes are taking place that would impact this use case scenario.

you go away a few days and boom- pages and pages to read, lol.

Thanks for you work on this! really appreciate it - especially since it's not your 'real' job.
If you get a chance can you revisit the question I quoted above? If this is correct then it is a change. Here's the example. Say I own 1million outrigger eligible points but want to stay at Outrigger Waikiki Beach Resort in prime season for a week, I can't do that currently. But if what they say above is true, then I can bank 540,000 points from 2021 to 2022 and book a week during prime for 1,540,000 points. Current rules allow one to only book at outrigger whatever the contract amount they own per year meaning with 1 million outrigger points one can never book a prime week at Waikiki.

 

[HitchHiker71]

you go away a few days and boom- pages and pages to read, lol.

Thanks for you work on this! really appreciate it - especially since it's not your 'real' job.
If you get a chance can you revisit the question I quoted above? If this is correct then it is a change. Here's the example. Say I own 1million outrigger eligible points but want to stay at Outrigger Waikiki Beach Resort in prime season for a week, I can't do that currently. But if what they say above is true, then I can bank 540,000 points from 2021 to 2022 and book a week during prime for 1,540,000 points. Current rules allow one to only book at outrigger whatever the contract amount they own per year meaning with 1 million outrigger points one can never book a prime week at Waikiki.

None of the rules are changing with respect to points usage except for VIP benefits applying to resale points. So if you cannot do something today, you won’t be able to do it once these changes are rolled out. The Q&A provided is geared specifically toward VIP changes.


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[VacayKat]

None of the rules are changing with respect to points usage except for VIP benefits applying to resale points. So if you cannot do something today, you won’t be able to do it once these changes are rolled out.


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The reason you can't do it today is they said that they had no way of knowing what contract the banked points came from. But since they are separating out the contracts then they now know where your points come from when banking, hence, this SHOULD be doable. Since the response you got from them indicated it would be possible, it seems clarification is needed.

 

[Cyrus24]

since they are separating out the contracts then they now know where your points come from when banking, hence, this SHOULD be doable. Since the response you got from them indicated it would be possible, it seems clarification is needed.

Excellent question. I'm wanting to use my Outrigger points in 2023. I should be able to move my 2021 and 2022 points into 2023. Would give me over 1MM. Hmmm, seems that Wyndham should be able to make this work.

 

[HitchHiker71]

The reason you can't do it today is they said that they had no way of knowing what contract the banked points came from. But since they are separating out the contracts then they now know where your points come from when banking, hence, this SHOULD be doable. Since the response you got from them indicated it would be possible, it seems clarification is needed.

Ok, I see where the misunderstanding is. First, they are NOT separating out contracts - they are creating two points buckets instead of a single points bucket. A developer points bucket and a resale points bucket. Wyndham isn’t coding ANY other changes except for the points bucket changes and VIP changes.

I don’t own Outrigger and have no idea what that even means. I now understand that the original question really has nothing to do with the VIP change topic. I also had no idea that there was a 1MM point limit on outrigger future use year banking when briefly discussing that particular question.

To be clear, I drafted ALL of the responses and then reviewed my draft answers via a zoom meeting with two Wyndham contacts. Since we weren’t focused on resale changes - my draft response wasn’t reviewed with that in mind - it was only reviewed with VIP changes in mind. So I would disregard the answers given since that specific question wasn’t really on topic. I will remove it from the list so it doesn’t create more confusion.

We were and are only focused on the changes specific to VIPs for this thread. Unless your question is VIP specific - let’s drop it for now as I don’t want to go down rabbit holes like this unless the questions are specifically about the announced VIP changes in this thread.


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[raygo123]

Ok, I see where the misunderstanding is. First, they are NOT separating out contracts - they are creating two points buckets instead of a single points bucket. A developer points bucket and a resale points bucket. Wyndham isn’t coding ANY other changes except for the points bucket changes and VIP changes.

I don’t own Outrigger and have no idea what that even means. I now understand that the original question really has nothing to do with the VIP change topic. I also had no idea that there was a 1MM point limit on outrigger future use year banking when briefly discussing that particular question.

To be clear, I drafted ALL of the responses and then reviewed my draft answers via a zoom meeting with two Wyndham contacts. Since we weren’t focused on resale changes - my draft response wasn’t reviewed with that in mind - it was only reviewed with VIP changes in mind. So I would disregard the answers given since that specific question wasn’t really on topic. I will remove it from the list so it doesn’t create more confusion.

We were and are only focused on the changes specific to VIPs for this thread. Unless your question is VIP specific - let’s drop it for now as I don’t want to go down rabbit holes like this unless the questions are specifically about the announced VIP changes in this thread.


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No. They are creating nothing. You just didn't see the buckets. Previously Wyndham could only distinguish with their previous software access and non access. So when you were out, you would get the not enough points message. Everything else was not accountable. Do you still have to call at 13 months or not to book a deeded unit? If Wyndham does it right you will book on line.

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[paxsarah]

Do you still have to call at 13 months or not to book a deeded unit? If Wyndham does it right you will book on line.

Do you mean deeded unit converted to points? (I have to assume so, because an unconverted fixed week doesn't need to be booked.) Because I can already book mine online if I want to.

 

[Jan M.]

Ok, I see where the misunderstanding is. First, they are NOT separating out contracts - they are creating two points buckets instead of a single points bucket. A developer points bucket and a resale points bucket. Wyndham isn’t coding ANY other changes except for the points bucket changes and VIP changes.

I don’t own Outrigger and have no idea what that even means. I now understand that the original question really has nothing to do with the VIP change topic. I also had no idea that there was a 1MM point limit on outrigger future use year banking when briefly discussing that particular question.

To be clear, I drafted ALL of the responses and then reviewed my draft answers via a zoom meeting with two Wyndham contacts. Since we weren’t focused on resale changes - my draft response wasn’t reviewed with that in mind - it was only reviewed with VIP changes in mind. So I would disregard the answers given since that specific question wasn’t really on topic. I will remove it from the list so it doesn’t create more confusion.

We were and are only focused on the changes specific to VIPs for this thread. Unless your question is VIP specific - let’s drop it for now as I don’t want to go down rabbit holes like this unless the questions are specifically about the announced VIP changes in this thread.


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Craig I think some people have questions that aren't clarified.

In both your developer and resale buckets will you see what you own in each? Say you own CWS, CWA and PR in both developer and resale. Will you have buckets for each type of points under both developer and resale? Will you be able to select which points you must or want to use for the reservations you make? Or will it just be two point buckets with no division of the type of points and it will say sorry but you don't have enough of the right type of points to make that reservation? If that's the case you would have no choice in which type of points get used first?

 

[HitchHiker71]

No. They are creating nothing. You just didn't see the buckets. Previously Wyndham could only distinguish with their previous software access and non access. So when you were out, you would get the not enough points message. Everything else was not accountable. Do you still have to call at 13 months or not to book a deeded unit? If Wyndham does it right you will book on line.

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Agreed - the points buckets were already there on the back end. However the work being done is on the front end to expose the buckets and is limited only to the announced changes. I don’t know any other way to say this. People keep asking about changes to resale that stand apart from the VIP announced changes. Did anyone receive any communication about resale changes? I didn’t see one, nor was I told about any. Please attempt to stay on topic especially when it comes to questions we want to put in front of Wyndham specific to the announced VIP changes. If we want to create a separate thread specific to resale changes that stand apart from what was actually announced - then let’s do so.


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[HitchHiker71]

Craig I think some people have questions that aren't clarified.

In both your developer and resale buckets will you see what you own in each? Say you own CWS, CWA and PR in both developer and resale. Will you have buckets for each type of points under both developer and resale? Will you be able to select which points you must or want to use for the reservations you make? Or will it just be two point buckets with no division of the type of points and it will say sorry but you don't have enough of the right type of points to make that reservation? If that's the case you would have no choice in which type of points get used first?

Jan,

Understood - but that’s not what this thread is about. It will only be two points buckets when making online reservations. The test account being used has ALL ownerships included. If you look at the screenshot/video you can plainly see that the account has PR ownership listed on the benefits summary page for example, yet the video only shows two points buckets - developer and resale - when making a reservation - so your question is already answered via the video we can all see with our own eyes. Go watch the video again - its right there for everyone to see. It’s just the two points buckets - developer and resale - when processing reservations online. I can’t say it more directly than I already have.

That said, if we all want to start a thread on resale changes - then let’s do so - but this thread is about VIP benefits no longer applying to resale points. Let’s please try to stay on topic at least with regard to the VIP benefits Q&A results. I need to manage the scope here and ensure we are only putting relevant questions in front of Wyndham that pertain to the topic at hand.

If we want to go down the resale rabbit hole, I will likely have to engage with different resources at Wyndham if we want to broaden the topics and attempt to pursue more system changes to provide functionality that doesn’t exist today - that’s an entirely different type of conversation - so it’s not as simple as putting a bunch of different questions on different topics in front of one or two people - they won’t know the answers - and the proof in this is that the question regarding Outrigger wasn’t answered correctly because it’s out of context and went right over the heads of the two resources who are very much focused on managing the VIP changes. I hope this makes sense.


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[Eric B]

Understood - but that’s not what this thread is about. It will only be two points buckets when making online reservations. The test account being used has ALL ownerships included. If you look at the screenshot/video you can plainly see that the account has PR ownership listed on the benefits summary page for example, yet the video only shows two points buckets - developer and resale - when making a reservation - so your question is already answered via the video we can all see with our own eyes. Go watch the video again - its right there for everyone to see. It’s just the two points buckets - developer and resale - when processing reservations online. I can’t say it more directly than I already have.

While the system only gives you the choice of two points buckets (developer and resale) for making a reservation, it's showing that the other points buckets are being tracked (see, e.g., frame 1:10, which has filters for the benefit summary for Club Wyndham Plus, Home Resort, Club Pass, External Exchange, Presidential Reserve, and Charitable Gift). You don't have to select those buckets when you make a reservation because they are inherent in the reservation you're making - Home Resort would be mandatory for a reservation that's in ARP unless you're using RARP and developer points from a different resort, Club Pass is pretty obvious, Presidential Reserve would be mandatory for those units when not available to all owners. There might be some minor perturbations to the outcomes like a PR owner booking a PR unit that was also available to anyone or a CWS owner booking their home resort during RARP using developer points from somewhere else, but the nice thing is that now you'll be able to see what was used once the reservation has been made by looking at the benefits summary - hopefully you'll be able to contact owner services and have the usage modified if, for example, you want to keep your home resort points for a different reservation or something like that.

 

[paxsarah]

It sounds like there will now be two points buckets as we traditionally understood buckets - resale and VIP-eligible - but that within those two buckets, the additional types of ownership/benefits will continue to use the benefit/allotment method that was introduced in 2017. That is, someone will have to choose a bucket when making a reservation, but once that choice is made, they don’t have to choose between, say, their Bonnet Creek or their Myrtle Beach contract. If they use one of those for ARP, that amount will be deducted from the appropriate benefit, but if they book inside 10 months, both benefits will remain full.

 

[HitchHiker71]

While the system only gives you the choice of two points buckets (developer and resale) for making a reservation, it's showing that the other points buckets are being tracked (see, e.g., frame 1:10, which has filters for the benefit summary for Club Wyndham Plus, Home Resort, Club Pass, External Exchange, Presidential Reserve, and Charitable Gift). You don't have to select those buckets when you make a reservation because they are inherent in the reservation you're making - Home Resort would be mandatory for a reservation that's in ARP unless you're using RARP and developer points from a different resort, Club Pass is pretty obvious, Presidential Reserve would be mandatory for those units when not available to all owners. There might be some minor perturbations to the outcomes like a PR owner booking a PR unit that was also available to anyone or a CWS owner booking their home resort during RARP using developer points from somewhere else, but the nice thing is that now you'll be able to see what was used once the reservation has been made by looking at the benefits summary - hopefully you'll be able to contact owner services and have the usage modified if, for example, you want to keep your home resort points for a different reservation or something like that.

Yes exactly - if you have any questions on how a particular transaction is charged to your buckets and/or benefits (GCs/HKs/RTs) - you can always contact Owner Resolution as the Q&A indicates. They may or may not be able to do something about it dependent upon the use case in scope.


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[HitchHiker71]

It sounds like there will now be two points buckets as we traditionally understood buckets - resale and VIP-eligible - but that within those two buckets, the additional types of ownership/benefits will continue to use the benefit/allotment method that was introduced in 2017. That is, someone will have to choose a bucket when making a reservation, but once that choice is made, they don’t have to choose between, say, their Bonnet Creek or their Myrtle Beach contract. If they use one of those for ARP, that amount will be deducted from the appropriate benefit, but if they book inside 10 months, both benefits will remain full.

Correct, as repeatedly stated - no other changes to the online reservation system are in scope - only the two points buckets as announced - and only VIP benefits not applying to resale points reservations as announced.

If you think it through - anything else quickly becomes much more complex to code and roll out - as Wyndham would pretty much have to deconstruct and reconstruct the entire logic engine for processing reservations to process reservations in a different manner than they do today. That would be a huge undertaking. The logic, as @paxsarah said, for benefit/allotment application doesn’t change at all - it simply applies to either the developer and/or resale points buckets using the exact same system logic in place today. I hope this helps.


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[raygo123]

Do you mean deeded unit converted to points? (I have to assume so, because an unconverted fixed week doesn't need to be booked.) Because I can already book mine online if I want to.

Your particular unit if not a udi? I know my udi is at a set of units rather than All.

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[paxsarah]

Your particular unit if not a udi? I know my udi is at a set of units rather than All.

I own a converted fixed week. I can book that week and only that week online during ARP.

 

[raygo123]

I own a converted fixed week. I can book that week and only that week online during ARP.

Yes I also had one. I now have a udi. Have you always stayed in the unit you bought? Do you have that option.

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[paxsarah]

Yes I also had one. I now have a udi. Have you always stayed in the unit you bought? Do you have that option.

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No, I never have. I only know I can book only the underlying week and unit type - anything else throws an error - but I don’t know if they assign the specific unit in my deed at the resort level.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Part of me wants to ask @HitchHiker71 to check with their Wyndham contacts about whether this change to borrowing is intentional and permanent, but most of me wants to leave well enough alone and hope it stays. Or maybe it gets spelled out in the upcoming new directory.

I wonder aloud what would happen if you attempted to use this "last night" borrowing feature when using the "Add nights" feature?

 

[Eric B]

I wonder aloud what would happen if you attempted to use this "last night" borrowing feature when using the "Add nights" feature?

It's probably something that would be somewhat self-limiting unless you can borrow all of the points for the last night. The way it's discussed on page 249 of the directory for renting points in the standard reservation window is "you may rent only enough points to complete a portion of the last night’s stay," which implies to me that you can't rent enough points for the whole of the last night's stay.

If you have to have at least one point from the current use year to borrow the same as it seems you have to for renting, the only way you could borrow for more than one "last night" added on would be if you freed up less than enough points for that night. It's something you might be able to do technically over and over again, but would eat up reservation transactions unless done with VIP-eligible points.

Another good question would be regarding whether you can borrow resale points to complete the last night of a reservation not using VIP benefits if you have remaining VIP-eligible points in the current use year.

 

[raygo123]

I wonder aloud what would happen if you attempted to use this "last night" borrowing feature when using the "Add nights" feature?

Full boat outside and half points if Platinum when made in the discount window. That's what I interpreted. As long as you have retail points left from next year.

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