[ 2021 ] Major Change to Wyndham VIP Program in Email 7/19/2021 [MERGED]

[Jan M.]

Full boat outside and half points if Platinum when made in the discount window. That's what I interpreted. As long as you have retail points left from next year.

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If you use both developer and resale points for a reservation you don't get your VIP benefits on the reservation. That's why it shows the option of renting the additional points you would need.

This is how I'm thinking it will work when you've booked something in the 60 day window getting your VIP discount and then wanted to add an extra night. The only two options you would have would be to rent points or borrow points from the next use year if you didn't have enough developer points left in the current use year.

 

[raygo123]

If you use both developer and resale points for a reservation you don't get your VIP benefits on the reservation. That's why it shows the option of renting the additional points you would need.

This is how I'm thinking it will work when you've booked something in the 60 day window getting your VIP discount and then wanted to add an extra night. The only two options you would have would be to rent points or borrow points from the next use year if you didn't have enough developer points left in the current use year.

I agree you don't get the VIP BENEFIT with any mix of resale and retail. With that I don't think you need to rent points as add on is not a VIP benefit. Is it? I'm wrong if it is VIP BENEFIT.

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[Jan M.]

I agree you don't get the VIP BENEFIT with any mix of resale and retail. With that I don't think you need to rent points as add on is not a VIP benefit. Is it? I'm wrong if it is VIP BENEFIT.

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I don't believe adding a night or nights is a VIP benefit.

 

[paxsarah]

With that I don't think you need to rent points as add on is not a VIP benefit.

The VIP benefit was used when booking the original reservation, so only VIP-eligible points can be used when adding a night. If no VIP-eligible points are left in the use year, then it seems the only option would be to borrow VIP-eligible points from the next year, or potentially rent at $12/k (which seems like a “neutral” point source).

 

[Ty1on]

I don't believe adding a night or nights is a VIP benefit.

I think what he is saying is book 4 nights with the VIP discount, then add a night at full rate with resale points. If you tried to book all five nights, the resale points you require to complete the resv would nullify VIP discount on the entire stay.

 

[raygo123]

The VIP benefit was used when booking the original reservation, so only VIP-eligible points can be used when adding a night. If no VIP-eligible points are left in the use year, then it seems the only option would be to borrow VIP-eligible points from the next year, or potentially rent at $12/k (which seems like a “neutral” point source).

Why? It not being a benefit? It just might be you just don't get the discount on the resale points which is. It just might be a stand alone booking that the computer recognizes. Theoretically you could always book six nights under the discount window and just add the seventh with the modify reservation using resale points. If that's the case, yes the amount of units that can be booked with the new rules would extend your overall discount would be 35 to 40% rather than 50 or 60 %. Now that would create a new loophole.

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[raygo123]

I think what he is saying is book 4 nights with the VIP discount, then add a night at full rate with resale points. If you tried to book all five nights, the resale points you require to complete the resv would nullify VIP discount on the entire stay.

Well!

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[paxsarah]

Why? It not being a benefit? It just might be you just don't get the discount on the resale points which is. It just might be a stand alone booking that the computer recognizes. Theoretically you could always book six nights under the discount window and just add the seventh with the modify reservation using resale points. If that's the case, yes the amount of units that can be booked with the new rules would extend your overall discount would be 35 to 40% rather than 50 or 60 %. Now that would create a new loophole.

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I’m going by Wyndham’s statement on the webpage about these changes that says

• When booking using VIP Eligible Points, Non-VIP Eligible Points may not be borrowed.

and taking it at face value. The booking with VIP eligible points may not borrow non-VIP eligible points. At least, as I read it.

 

[bnoble]

I wonder aloud what would happen if you attempted to use this "last night" borrowing feature when using the "Add nights" feature?

If I remember it correctly, you can't borrow *all* of the points needed for the "last night," only a *portion* of the points required for that night. So, that would rule out adding an additional night via borrowing.

 

[Ty1on]

Double post

 

[Ty1on]

If I remember it correctly, you can't borrow *all* of the points needed for the "last night," only a *portion* of the points required for that night. So, that would rule out adding an additional night via borrowing.

Suppose you have 1000 Vip points left and borrow 13000 to complete a 14000 point night?

 

[Eric B]

If I remember it correctly, you can't borrow *all* of the points needed for the "last night," only a *portion* of the points required for that night. So, that would rule out adding an additional night via borrowing.

That’s what is in the directory on page 249 for renting points. There’s nothing in there about borrowing from future use years for the last night in the standard reservation window, so we can only guess how it works (and whether it will continue to work).

 

[raygo123]

I’m going by Wyndham’s statement on the webpage about these changes that says

• When booking using VIP Eligible Points, Non-VIP Eligible Points may not be borrowed.

and taking it at face value. The booking with VIP eligible points may not borrow non-VIP eligible points. At least, as I read it.

This had nothing to do with borrowing. If you book a five nights stay in the discount window. Now you go by immediately to the reservation and it shows the other two nights on the modify reservation button. If you can use resale points for the extension of the two nights that would lower the total cost in points for the seven day reservation if otherwise you would have to use retail points. Again in theory if the computer doesn't recognize the fact that the points are resale.

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[paxsarah]

This had nothing to do with borrowing. If you book a five nights stay in the discount window. Now you go by immediately to the reservation and it shows the other two nights on the modify reservation button. If you can use resale points for the extension of the two nights that would lower the total cost in points for the seven day reservation if otherwise you would have to use retail points. Again in theory if the computer doesn't recognize the fact that the points are resale.

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Have you familiarized yourself with the information that Wyndham has published on this change? The way in which points can be combined in the same use year is referred to as borrowing in the documentation. You can borrow VIP-eligible points from the same use year into a resale reservation, and those VIP-eligible points lose VIP benefits in the process. You cannot borrow resale points into a reservation made with VIP-eligible points. The clear intent, then, is that resale points shouldn’t be allowed to be used to add nights to an existing VIP eligible reservation, because that would be borrowing resale points into a VIP reservation.
Now, will they have considered this possibility and programmed the system correctly to prevent this? Who can say. But if they’ve done it properly, when modifying a reservation made from the VIP-eligible bucket it should only allow nights to be added with points from the VIP-eligible bucket.

 

[raygo123]

Have you familiarized yourself with the information that Wyndham has published on this change? The way in which points can be combined in the same use year is referred to as borrowing in the documentation. You can borrow VIP-eligible points from the same use year into a resale reservation, and those VIP-eligible points lose VIP benefits in the process. You cannot borrow resale points into a reservation made with VIP-eligible points. The clear intent, then, is that resale points shouldn’t be allowed to be used to add nights to an existing VIP eligible reservation, because that would be borrowing resale points into a VIP reservation.
Now, will they have considered this possibility and programmed the system correctly to prevent this? Who can say. But if they’ve done it properly, when modifying a reservation made from the VIP-eligible bucket it should only allow nights to be added with points from the VIP-eligible bucket.

That is why I called it a loophole. That's what the whole mega renters got started, on a loophole.based on past experience with the Wyndham last attempts.

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[Eric B]

This had nothing to do with borrowing. If you book a five nights stay in the discount window. Now you go by immediately to the reservation and it shows the other two nights on the modify reservation button. If you can use resale points for the extension of the two nights that would lower the total cost in points for the seven day reservation if otherwise you would have to use retail points. Again in theory if the computer doesn't recognize the fact that the points are resale.

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I hadn’t heard of anyone being able to do this yet, very likely because the update to the system hasn’t been made yet. I’m not all that sure it’s worth getting terribly upset about until we know how things are implemented, though as @paxsarah points out, the rules as they describe them wouldn’t allow it as a single reservation. Once the update happens, if it’s possible to do that you might consider giving them feedback - to me the only real savings from doing that in the grand scheme of things would be the reservation transaction and housekeeping on booking the 2-night resale stay since it would be possible in any case. Given the de minimus cost to Wyndham of a reservation transaction and the potential to avoid housekeeping costs to turn over the room if the same people stay in it for the VIP stay and the resale stay, I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it if it were implemented to allow it. In fact, I would view it as a way Wyndham could provide beneficial flexibility to owners at very little cost or potential for abuse, perhaps with a minor adjustment to strip out the VIP room request that isn’t always delivered on anyway.

My guess, however, is that they won’t allow resale add ons to VIP reservations. That would likely be more complicated than prohibiting them.

 

[paxsarah]

That is why I called it a loophole. That's what the whole mega renters got started, on a loophole.based on past experience with the Wyndham last attempts.

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If this is the best loophole they can come up with, then I guess Wyndham’s been pretty successful in shutting things down. And we don’t even know if they’ve left this loophole open - it seems obvious based on the documentation so far that adding a night to a VIP-eligible reservation should only allow points from the same bucket.

 

[Eric B]

If this is the best loophole they can come up with, then I guess Wyndham’s been pretty successful in shutting things down. And we don’t even know if they’ve left this loophole open - it seems obvious based on the documentation so far that adding a night to a VIP-eligible reservation should only allow points from the same bucket.

About the only benefit I could see for doing that would be to target VIP discounts at weekend days or prime season days at a transition in order to get more bang for the buck. Even that would be a stretch, though. I do think you’re right that it won’t be possible absent a good deal of sub par management.

 

[raygo123]

About the only benefit I could see for doing that would be to target VIP discounts at weekend days or prime season days at a transition in order to get more bang for the buck. Even that would be a stretch, though. I do think you’re right that it won’t be possible absent a good deal of sub par management.

That is the basis of my theory.

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[Ty1on]

absent a good deal of sub par management.

Oh ye of little faith.....

 

[HitchHiker71]

Screenshots from today's Wyndham education session as it relates to the announced changes for those who could not attend:

The above screenshot shows the benefits summary with more explicit buckets than the video shared. Note the CWP RARP buckets for each resort - and the HK buckets. Below is a close up screenshot for ease of viewing:

Here's a screenshot of the Benefits history:

Here's the Benefits Filter options:

Here's an example of the Benefits History sorted by the above listed screenshot option "CWP":

Couple of important points that were discussed on the Wyndham education session today that are worth mentioning:

• When making reservations - your choice between Developer and Resale buckets - this is a once and done choice. You cannot - and Owner Resolution will not - change the selection once the reservation has been made. The only way to accomplish this would be to cancel the reservation - and rebook a second reservation. Understand that this will burn up an additional RT for the same reservation.
• The complimentary points referred to in the original announcement for VIP resale owners will be given out based upon VIP-eligible points usage to account for situations where the VIP points bucket is zero'd out and/or significantly depleted as part of the audit and rollout process. No specific guidance was given as to how the complimentary points will be calculated. No resale complimentary points will be granted as part of this process.
• If you have made a reservation already, and opted in for a VIP room upgrade - and that room upgrade has already been granted - but after the audit that same reservation used resale points - the upgrade granted will stay in place. If you have requested an upgrade that has not been granted - and any resale points were used to facilitate that reservation - your upgrade request will be cancelled/removed.
• If anyone else attended and has any other lessons learned - please post them so we can all share in the knowledge.

Lastly - for one month following the release of the Benefit Summary features, a dedicated toll free line will be available for any/all Benefits Summary specific questions - i.e. this phone bank will be staffed by people trained specifically about this new functionality and to answer specific VIP/resale questions:

 

[paxsarah]

When making reservations - your choice between Developer and Resale buckets - this is a once and done choice. You cannot - and Owner Resolution will not - change the selection once the reservation has been made. The only way to accomplish this would be to cancel the reservation - and rebook a second reservation. Understand that this will burn up an additional RT for the same reservation.

If you have requested an upgrade that has not been granted - and any resale points were used to facilitate that reservation - your upgrade request will be cancelled/removed.

One thing that occurred to me when she was explaining this (and I know, this wasn't technically my webinar, but I thought it would be interesting to listen) is that if a VIP has reservations where they opted in for an upgrade, but don't really have any specific plans to use the extra space or an upgrade is vanishingly unlikely, that between now and the system update it might be worth removing some upgrade requests (if that's the only thing flagging a reservation as VIP) if there's any concern about running low on VIP-eligible points after the sorting. She didn't really address this strategy at all, but it seems it may be prudent if anyone has any upgrade requests that are essentially throwaways, it might be worth canceling them.

 

[Rolltydr]

Were they any more specific on the date the system upgrade will occur? The only thing I have seen is mid August.

 

[VacayKat]

One thing that occurred to me when she was explaining this (and I know, this wasn't technically my webinar, but I thought it would be interesting to listen) is that if a VIP has reservations where they opted in for an upgrade, but don't really have any specific plans to use the extra space or an upgrade is vanishingly unlikely, that between now and the system update it might be worth removing some upgrade requests (if that's the only thing flagging a reservation as VIP) if there's any concern about running low on VIP-eligible points after the sorting. She didn't really address this strategy at all, but it seems it may be prudent if anyone has any upgrade requests that are essentially throwaways, it might be worth canceling them.

Sounds like a good plan as you can always add them back after if they end up being VIP eligible vacations.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Were they any more specific on the date the system upgrade will occur? The only thing I have seen is mid August.

No, just reiterated mid-August timeframe.


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