[ 2021 ] Major Change to Wyndham VIP Program in Email 7/19/2021 [MERGED]

[HitchHiker71]

Do you think Wyndham will go back to booking a single nite stay, that is one feature I am most upset that they took away from us.

I queried Wyndham back in the fall on this topic when Worldmark reintroduced one night stays. I was told that Wyndham owners have not provided any real feedback via the website mechanisms in place which is the primary feedback mechanism they pay the most attention to. Yes our back channel feedback helps but it’s really complimentary to the website feedback mechanism. If Wyndham owners want one night stays to return - we need to literally be making this complaint via the website feedback mechanism every time we use the website. If enough owners do so - it’ll get enough attention to be put on their radar.


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[paxsarah]

Another small sliver of hope is that while some benefits were simply removed (eg VIP midweek clean and tidy), 1-night stays are still published in the newest directory although not currently active. Keep submitting that feedback - there must be some reason they didn't delete it entirely.

 

[r4rab]

With the new housekeeping rules/charges 1-night stays may become prohibitively expensive unless you are a grandfathered VIP with unlimited HK.

 

[paxsarah]

With the new housekeeping rules/charges 1-night stays may become prohibitively expensive unless you are a grandfathered VIP with unlimited HK.

For the owner or for Wyndham? As a non-VIP owner I've got enough free HK credits that if I want to take one or two 1-night stays in a given year to balance with my larger bookings, I won't run out. I wouldn't be doing it every weekend. For this year I've got 178k points remaining and 5 HK credits, so I'm good. I'd love to make a 1-night stay in April but instead I'm using credit card points on a hotel. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If for Wyndham, the prohibitive expense would come largely from those with grandfathered unlimited HK. It may be a staffing issue still, but normally if I get X number of free HK, Wyndham should be prepared to accommodate X stays from me. In 2021 and likely in 2022 I'll have left unused HK on the table. It shouldn't really matter if I take one 3-night and one 1-night stay, or two 2-night stays.

 

[r4rab]

For the owner or for Wyndham? As a non-VIP owner I've got enough free HK credits that if I want to take one or two 1-night stays in a given year to balance with my larger bookings, I won't run out. I wouldn't be doing it every weekend. For this year I've got 178k points remaining and 5 HK credits, so I'm good. I'd love to make a 1-night stay in April but instead I'm using credit card points on a hotel. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If for Wyndham, the prohibitive expense would come largely from those with grandfathered unlimited HK. It may be a staffing issue still, but normally if I get X number of free HK, Wyndham should be prepared to accommodate X stays from me. In 2021 and likely in 2022 I'll have left unused HK on the table. It shouldn't really matter if I take one 3-night and one 1-night stay, or two 2-night stays.

I think it could get expensive for the owner. Depending on how many 1-night stays and "shorter" (2-3 night) stays someone makes I could see them easily using up their free HK credits.

 

[paxsarah]

I think it could get expensive for the owner. Depending on how many 1-night stays and "shorter" (2-3 night) stays someone makes I could see them easily using up their free HK credits.

I've taken stays of many lengths, from one night on up, and never run out of housekeeping. It's not really Wyndham's concern whether it's expensive for the owner in deciding to reinstate 1-night stays or not. Each of us can manage our points accordingly.

 

[r4rab]

I've taken stays of many lengths, from one night on up, and never run out of housekeeping. It's not really Wyndham's concern whether it's expensive for the owner in deciding to reinstate 1-night stays or not. Each of us can manage our points accordingly.

Agreed

 

[chapjim]

Although, this does raise the question, what VIP onsite benefits remain anyway? Early/dedicated check-in. Anything else? The big issue was always the reservation-based benefits - discounts, upgrades, housekeeping, reservation transactions.

Lake Marion always gives us a bottle of wine. A couple places leave a little box of bonbons. Some places have a free newspaper but you have to go get it. Emerald Grande has some really nice offerings but we've never used any of them for various reasons.

Even early check-in is shaky -- it is and always has been an "if available" feature. If you call the resort and advise of an early arrival, you have a chance. If you just show up at 2 PM, you probably don't.

I think it was National Harbor that told us, "We don't do that here" shortly after VIP early arrival became a thing. I must admit that National Harbor is twenty minutes from home and is one of two resorts (with OTA) that we have any chance of arriving early. VIP early arrival is not a benefit we get much use of.

 

[chapjim]

I stay frequently at Old Town Alexandria and I get upgraded virtually every time from the smallest one bedroom to a two bedroom usually. This happens with developer and resale stays.

Are these instant upgrades, upgrades to an existing reservation, or upgrades upon arrival? Obviously, the resale stays are 'on arrival.'

 

[kanerf]

Are these instant upgrades, upgrades to an existing reservation, or upgrades upon arrival? Obviously, the resale stays are 'on arrival.'

Upgrades to an existing reservation.

 

[chapjim]

Upgrades to an existing reservation.

Your reservations made with resale points are getting upgraded? That used to be common but since Wyndham started splitting points into developer and resale, it shouldn't happen at all.

Currently, I use my resale points when there is no possibility of an upgrade -- 2BR Deluxe units at Royal Vista, for example. There's no larger or more desirable unit there.

 

[kanerf]

These reservations were made in July, before the change.

 

[paxsarah]

Any word on the issue that, for Non-VIP owners that that don’t have a Jan-Dec use year, they can only deposit into the next year online. They cannot deposit into the following use year without calling in. They also can also only see one future year in the point summary and benefit summary until Jan 1st when the 2nd future use year will show up online. Too late, unfortunately, to deposit into.

@HitchHiker71

Sorry to dredge this thread back up, but this remains an issue based on a post I saw on Facebook today. Non-VIP and some lower-VIP owners with non-January use years are unable to do a points deposit online into the second year. They have to call and pay $49 instead of $39, and they're being told by owner care that it's the case for everyone and oh well. But it's not the case for everyone - just for owners with the wrong combination of use year and VIP level. This should either be fixed so owners can do it online, or owner care should be informed that it's a glitch, not a feature, and waive the extra fee.

 

[Sandi Bo]

@HitchHiker71

Sorry to dredge this thread back up, but this remains an issue based on a post I saw on Facebook today. Non-VIP and some lower-VIP owners with non-January use years are unable to do a points deposit online into the second year. They have to call and pay $49 instead of $39, and they're being told by owner care that it's the case for everyone and oh well. But it's not the case for everyone - just for owners with the wrong combination of use year and VIP level. This should either be fixed so owners can do it online, or owner care should be informed that it's a glitch, not a feature, and waive the extra fee.

On the other hand... have you ever held while they adjusted a fee, if they do agree you shouldn't be charged? I would figure about an hour a call to Wyndham. Sometimes it's worth eating the extra fees they charge you for calling in. Wrong, you bet. But time these days seems more and more valuable to me (as wait times at most corporations just gets worse and worse).

 

[HitchHiker71]

@HitchHiker71

Sorry to dredge this thread back up, but this remains an issue based on a post I saw on Facebook today. Non-VIP and some lower-VIP owners with non-January use years are unable to do a points deposit online into the second year. They have to call and pay $49 instead of $39, and they're being told by owner care that it's the case for everyone and oh well. But it's not the case for everyone - just for owners with the wrong combination of use year and VIP level. This should either be fixed so owners can do it online, or owner care should be informed that it's a glitch, not a feature, and waive the extra fee.

If it's not the case for everyone - can we narrow the scope of the reported issue to a specific use case scenario(s)? What is the "wrong" combination? Any details you can share would help...

 

[paxsarah]

If it's not the case for everyone - can we narrow the scope of the reported issue to a specific use case scenario(s)? What is the "wrong" combination? Any details you can share would help...

So the reason it happens is that future use year points are awarded around Jan 1 each year, regardless of use year, so they're showing up in your account anywhere from 15-24 months in advance. For January, this is fine. Say it's January 1, 2022 and I have a January use year, non-VIP. My Jan 2023 UY points were awarded a year ago, and my Jan 2024 use year points are awarded today. Both of those buckets exist, and I can deposit forward into either of them for the next three months.

Say It's January 1, 2022, and I have an April use year, non-VIP. My 2023 UY points (which actually start April 2022) were awarded a year ago. Today my 2024 UY points (which start April 2023) are awarded in my account. Wait 3 months to the start of my use year and I want to deposit some points forward. The only two buckets available in my account are the current 2023 bucket (ending 3/31/2023), and the immediate future 2024 bucket (ending 3/31/2024). I don't have the second year 2025 bucket (4/1/24-3/31/25) because those points haven't been awarded yet. So the online system only lets me deposit one year into the future, but not two years. (For some reason, the phone staff are able to do it.)

Going through that scenario for various types of owners, this will affect non-VIPs with any non-January use year. If my math/logic is correct, it would also affect Bronze or Silver VIP with April or July use years, or Gold with an April use year. For the VIPs, if the tail end of their points deposit window extends into the next calendar year, they can simply wait (which they're probably doing anyway) and deposit after January 1 when the following year's bucket is created. (So Bronze/Silver with October, Gold with July or October, and all Platinum and Founders are fine because they have some time at the end of their points deposit window to make the deposit two years out.)

 

[markb53]

So the reason it happens is that future use year points are awarded around Jan 1 each year, regardless of use year, so they're showing up in your account anywhere from 15-24 months in advance. For January, this is fine. Say it's January 1, 2022 and I have a January use year, non-VIP. My Jan 2023 UY points were awarded a year ago, and my Jan 2024 use year points are awarded today. Both of those buckets exist, and I can deposit forward into either of them for the next three months.

Say It's January 1, 2022, and I have an April use year, non-VIP. My 2023 UY points (which actually start April 2022) were awarded a year ago. Today my 2024 UY points (which start April 2023) are awarded in my account. Wait 3 months to the start of my use year and I want to deposit some points forward. The only two buckets available in my account are the current 2023 bucket (ending 3/31/2023), and the immediate future 2024 bucket (ending 3/31/2024). I don't have the second year 2025 bucket (4/1/24-3/31/25) because those points haven't been awarded yet. So the online system only lets me deposit one year into the future, but not two years. (For some reason, the phone staff are able to do it.)

Going through that scenario for various types of owners, this will affect non-VIPs with any non-January use year. If my math/logic is correct, it would also affect Bronze or Silver VIP with April or July use years, or Gold with an April use year. For the VIPs, if the tail end of their points deposit window extends into the next calendar year, they can simply wait (which they're probably doing anyway) and deposit after January 1 when the following year's bucket is created. (So Bronze/Silver with October, Gold with July or October, and all Platinum and Founders are fine because they have some time at the end of their points deposit window to make the deposit two years out.)

Here is a screenshot of what it looks like. I can’t show you the deposit screen because my friend that has this problem has no points left in this year to deposit. But you can see on the point summary page that there are no points in the current year 203,000 points in 07/1/2023-06/30/2024. But there should be 203,000 in 07/1/2024 - 06/30/2025. The second future will show up where they are supposed to on 1/1/23 when it is too late to deposit. I have a calendar year use year and I can seen next year and the following year. When we called Wyndham she said that she could see both future years just fine and would be happy to deposit points for $49.00.

 

[HitchHiker71]

So the reason it happens is that future use year points are awarded around Jan 1 each year, regardless of use year, so they're showing up in your account anywhere from 15-24 months in advance. For January, this is fine. Say it's January 1, 2022 and I have a January use year, non-VIP. My Jan 2023 UY points were awarded a year ago, and my Jan 2024 use year points are awarded today. Both of those buckets exist, and I can deposit forward into either of them for the next three months.

Say It's January 1, 2022, and I have an April use year, non-VIP. My 2023 UY points (which actually start April 2022) were awarded a year ago. Today my 2024 UY points (which start April 2023) are awarded in my account. Wait 3 months to the start of my use year and I want to deposit some points forward. The only two buckets available in my account are the current 2023 bucket (ending 3/31/2023), and the immediate future 2024 bucket (ending 3/31/2024). I don't have the second year 2025 bucket (4/1/24-3/31/25) because those points haven't been awarded yet. So the online system only lets me deposit one year into the future, but not two years. (For some reason, the phone staff are able to do it.)

Going through that scenario for various types of owners, this will affect non-VIPs with any non-January use year. If my math/logic is correct, it would also affect Bronze or Silver VIP with April or July use years, or Gold with an April use year. For the VIPs, if the tail end of their points deposit window extends into the next calendar year, they can simply wait (which they're probably doing anyway) and deposit after January 1 when the following year's bucket is created. (So Bronze/Silver with October, Gold with July or October, and all Platinum and Founders are fine because they have some time at the end of their points deposit window to make the deposit two years out.)

Sarah,

Got it. I’m slammed this week at work and am traveling all of next week on business. If someone could convert this ask into the following format:

Issue type: Regression

Problem statement:

Concise problem statement here


Steps to reproduce:

Steps listed here


Proposed resolution:

Provide the ability to utilize the deposit future use year points function for all use year scenarios currently in circulation for Wyndham owners.

Try to be as concise as is possible. Many thanks in advance!


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[paxsarah]

Sarah,

Got it. I’m slammed this week at work and am traveling all of next week on business. If someone could convert this ask into the following format:

Issue type: Regression

Problem statement:

Concise problem statement here


Steps to reproduce:

Steps listed here


Proposed resolution:

Provide the ability to utilize the deposit future use year points function for all use year scenarios currently in circulation for Wyndham owners.

Try to be as concise as is possible. Many thanks in advance!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Issue type: Regression

Problem statement:

Certain owners with non-January use years are unable to use the points deposit feature online to move points into the second future year out (and can only deposit to the immediate future year). They must call and thus pay a higher fee to deposit into the second future year. All January owners and certain VIP non-January owners do not have this problem and can complete all points deposit transactions online. This discrepancy seems to be related to the awarding of future use year points on/around January 1 regardless of use year start date.

Steps to reproduce:

This will be experienced by any owner with a non-January use year whose points deposit window does not extend into the following calendar year. Thus it affects all non-VIPs with non-January use years. Also, Silver and Bronze VIPs with April or July use years, and gold VIPs with an April use year. When attempting to use points deposit online, those owners will only see one option, the immediate future use year. Other owners will see two choices of use year.

Proposed resolution:

Provide the ability to utilize the deposit future use year points function for all use year scenarios currently in circulation for Wyndham owners. Until a fix is implemented, allow affected owners to pay the lower online points deposit fee when calling in to complete the deposit.

 

[rws3654]

We have a resale contract from years ago and are being told at owners education that we are forfeiting option to buy developer contact to get us into a lot of other programs of value.

Any advice?

 

[Eric B]

We have a resale contract from years ago and are being told at owners education that we are forfeiting option to buy developer contact to get us into a lot of other programs of value.

Any advice?

"Owners education" events are really just sales presentations. They will tell you whatever it takes to persuade you to buy. There will always be another option to buy developer contracts in the future and the programs of value will most likely be worth less than what they want you to pay for them - otherwise they would not be willing to sell them. Bottom line advice is tell them "thank you very much for the educational opportunity" and leave with your gift.

 

[Sandi Bo]

Did anyone happen to actually watch the video and/or look at the splash screen graphic: - highlighted in the red rectangle below. Kinda ironic showing a Rental Points bucket isn't it?

View attachment 37704

I've never thought it was a good description of what we're doing - renting points from Wyndham. But I think the rules are you can rent (one time use) points at the $12/10000 up to the number of VIP points you own? Is that correct or can anyone 'rent points'?

I have rented and my number still shows I have 100% of my points left (that is what that number is for me - the number of developer points owned / the number of developer points owned, so I'm wrong - or is the benefits summary wrong?

What is that number? LOL

 

[Eric B]

I've never thought it was a good description of what we're doing - renting points from Wyndham. But I think the rules are you can rent (one time use) points at the $12/10000 up to the number of VIP points you own? Is that correct or can anyone 'rent points'?

I have rented and my number still shows I have 100% of my points left (that is what that number is for me - the number of developer points owned / the number of developer points owned, so I'm wrong - or is the benefits summary wrong?

What is that number? LOL

It had been a while since I looked at this thread, but I don't believe the rental ability is limited to VIP points. The program guidelines allow you to rent whether or not you are a VIP, just an owner, or a resale owner. The limitations are for renting in the SRP up to the amount to complete the last night's cost for the stay and for renting in the ERP up to the amount of points you own excluding PICs and bonus contracts(cumulatively for the year, though it's not well phrased). That's laid out on page 318 of the current directory.

The counter that shows up for me is keyed to the number of developer (VIP-eligible) points I own. I believe that is intended to track the ERP usage limit because the rented points get the discounted reservation costs for VIPs when used in the discount window. I've rented points in the past to make up a small number needed for a reservation that I ultimately canceled anyway and can't remember if it was before or after the change was implemented, so don't have any notion of whether or not the counter decremented. I do know that the option to rent shows up when I make a resale reservation, though.

 

[rws3654]

"Owners education" events are really just sales presentations. They will tell you whatever it takes to persuade you to buy. There will always be another option to buy developer contracts in the future and the programs of value will most likely be worth less than what they want you to pay for them - otherwise they would not be willing to sell them. Bottom line advice is tell them "thank you very much for the educational opportunity" and leave with your gift.

We walked, and they told us that our account has been “dispositioned” based on the new rules for resale points. Not even sure what that means. They did admit it will not impact how we are currently using our points. It does seem that they alternate now between trying to sell us that deeds are better one time and buying into CWA trust the next.

 

[Eric B]

Not even sure what that means.

They probably weren't sure what it means either, but figured it sounded scary and might motivate you to buy.