[2021] Deceptive Practice [a broker] - Deceptive Practice

[theo]

It seems the theme of this thread is me being confused.

I submit that anyone attempting to make clear sense of this thread is inevitably just left confused.
Alas, the (guest) OP who fired off the first (and subsequent) salvos and accusations promptly disappeared back into the ether.

 

[ResaleExpert]

Thank you to TUG administrators for opening up this thread so I can reply to this erroneous post.
See below on my reply to some members who had posted concerns about the person complaining as I was unable to do this when I learned of this yesterday since comments were locked.

Below is basically what I sent via individual posts and I appreciate the support over my 16 years of resales. I strive to be professional and ethical so this was obviously upsetting and wrong.

I Just learned (April 7) about this TUG post so wanted to let you know the details and I sent this to TUG moderators AND the person falsely complaining who I have never heard from.
*I DID have full permission from Mr. Don Heisler, Broker / owner of Key West Timeshare to advertise his listings and this continues today after many years. I have sold about 100 of his listings and
I know Don personally. This is the ONLY time that any issue has ever come up.
The person making the complaint NEVER contacted me, but when Don Heisler asked me to change the ads to include the $1,375 transfer and escrow in the price I did - This was the only difference as the net price was and still is exactly the same as when I advertised and the net is the same to this and every seller
*Almost every timeshare is listed with the buyer paying the transfer fees and costs; and this allows prospects to compare with similar terms;
Don chooses to list with the SELLER paying these costs so when compared to my ads his prices appear higher than others; they are his listings I advertise with his approval.
This explains fully why my AUTHORIZED ads on Redweek where priced EXACTLY correct and not 'under list price' as was incorrectly stated by this person.
SIMPLY PUT: Don has the SELLER paying the $650 Hyatt fee and the $725 escrow fee, so his prices are equal to my prices where the BUYER pays these.
AGAIN, I did hear from Don Heisler and changed the ads to reflect his pricing model - seller still net's the same either way. Don said he would explain this to the listing party with the complaint.
I did not hear from the person / persons complaining and I would have been pleased to have explained their perceived differences since their bottom line would be exactly the same even though his price appears higher with Don's listings.
Bill

 

[Pathways]

So....to sum up

The original whiner was getting FREE publicity for his listing via Redweek ads PAID for by BG, and maybe other places where BG markets. The whiner wants his listing to be $1500 higher (give or take) than all the competing ads, by offering to PAY for closing costs and Hyatt transfer fees even though most buyers agree to pay those fees themselves.

By doing so, the whiner (ekaufman11) can avoid 'lowball' offers on his listing by not getting any offers at all until the $1.5k cheaper listing that matches his timeshare sells first. The whiner (ekaufman11) is so involved in his listing/sale, that he didn't check with his own agent to learn of the process, or to be educated about a concept in real estate called co-listing/commission splitting.

One would hope that the result of this would be that in the future, any listings for the whiner (ekaufman11) would be marketed only on the website of DH, so as to avoid any offers, or at the very least 'offensive' offers.

Sadly, I would expect that to not be the case. As a professional whose only interest is sales (thereby earning a commission) Bill G. probably would continue to market this guys timeshare and turn a blind eye to the stench he created.

Just my 2 cents

 

[ResaleExpert]

BUYER/SELLER beware
I have discovered my timeshare unit which is for sale with Don Heisler, keywesttimeshares.com, was listed on REDWEEK by a Bill Gabrielli for less money. This person does not have any authorization from myself or Mr. Heisler to list my unit. I wanted to make you all aware that you should check Redweek as there are many listings with Bill Gabrielli under pricing these units for sale, yours might be one of them. I have contacted Redweek as well as Mr. Heisler. We lost a possible sale due to his undermining.

Mr. Kaufman,
I am sorry that you felt you had to place this inaccurate information about me and I would appreciate your retraction / correction.

I do not show any communication or attempts from you.
Please understand:

*The price advertised was EXACTLY your price - not a reduction as you incorrectly stated as my ads have the buyer paying the Hyatt's $650 transfer fee and $725 escrow fee. In fact the net is exactly the same just stated the way most timeshare brokers list their weeks putting your ad in better light.
*SO, it was NOT listed for less money.
*I DID and still do have authorization from Mr. Heisler to advertise his listings and in the many years we have worked together you are the first and only complaint.
*I do NOT believe you lost a 'possible sale' in any part due to the ads as the net to you and price to buyer is the same as you listed.
*When buyer's compare the other companies ALL advertise with buyer paying the fees (they expect and compare) so your week is less competitive when changed to the price that includes seller / you paying the fees.

I certainly would have been pleased to explain this to you had you reached out to me first (I show no communication from you) vs. putting false information on the internet.
I've sold over 900 Hyatt weeks (plus 100's of Marriott, Westin & other weeks) and value my stellar reputation which does not deserve to be diminished with your statements.

Your comments are welcomed and your correction would be appreciated. Thank you

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Mr. Kaufman,
I am sorry that you felt you had to place this inaccurate information about me and I would appreciate your retraction / correction......do not show any communication or attempts from you.
Please understand:
*The price advertised was EXACTLY your price - not a reduction as you incorrectly stated as my ads have the buyer paying the Hyatt's $650 transfer fee and $725 escrow fee. .................

Your comments are welcomed and your correction would be appreciated. Thank you

Hi Bill ,
Mr.Kaufman’s profile does not seem to show when he last visited TUG.
[ a moderator may be able to see a date ]

You may wish to click on his blue user name and send him a PM - Conversation. I believe a notice will show up in the email he used to register on TUG. You can also include others in that PM so that, if there is no response or correction - that information can be added to this thread.

Thank you for the update. I do recall reading the original post, and some of the thread as it evolved.

 

[ResaleExpert]

Thank you - I did send him a PM with no reply yet...
Much appreciated
Bill

 

[Karen G]

Mr.Kaufman’s profile does not seem to show when he last visited TUG.
[ a moderator may be able to see a date ]

Ekaufman11
Guest
Joined Jan 30, 2021
Last seen Feb 5, 2021

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Hi Bill ,
Mr.Kaufman’s profile does not seem to show when he last visited TUG.
[ a moderator may be able to see a date ]

You may wish to click on his blue user name and send him a PM - Conversation. I believe a notice will show up in the email he used to register on TUG. You can also include others in that PM so that, if there is no response or correction - that information can be added to this thread.

Thank you for the update. I do recall reading the original post, and some of the thread as it evolved.

It appears that EKaufman11 joined on January 30th, 2021 with their first posting and their final posting was on February 5, 2021. As of today he/she has only made comments on this one particular thread which he/she initially started.

I would guess they lost interest when the thread was initially locked up on February 7th, 2021 but who knows for sure.. He/she has not contributed any input to any other thread.



.

 

[escanoe]

Bill has now cleared his good name, not that such a post was particularly needed. It was entirely fair.

MODERATOR, will you PLEASE close this skunk of a thread down once more?

And it would probably be fair to change the subject of the post in fairness to the next potential person that is researching Bill on Google and only looking at headlines.

 

[davidvel]

Bill has now cleared his good name, not that such a post was particularly needed. It was entirely fair.

MODERATOR, will you PLEASE close this skunk of a thread down once more?

And it would probably be fair to change the subject of the post in fairness to the next potential person that is researching Bill on Google and only looking at headlines.

Why shut it down? It seems there are now lots of discussion points regarding the claims and defenses.

 

[mjm1]

I can speak from personal experience over the past few years that Bill is very knowledgeable and has been easy to work with. In fact, we are in the process of finalizing a transaction. Thanks Bill.

Best regards.

Mike

 

[Pathways]

and it would probably be fair to change the subject of the post in fairness to the next potential person that is researching Bill on Google and only looking at headlines.

And it appears that this has finally been changed. Thank you to the TUG moderator(s) who accomplished this!!

I have always had an issue with people who disparage someone (in ANY way) by name and yet hide behind their own user name. Be a MAN if you choose to lob firebombs and show your own colors.

And I would like to apologize in this forum to Bill G. After reading his response, and reviewing the thread comments, he clearly wasn't aware that the accusations were being published here.

I assumed (wrongly) that he monitors this forum frequently enough to have been aware of the thread from the early stages. When I didn't see a response I should have PM'd him to make him aware. (I just assumed he was doing it behind the scenes)

I would hope other TUG members would do the same for me. My BAD

 

[Patri]

If this whole thread was built on a lie, or libel, it should be deleted.

 

[davidvel]

If this whole thread was built on a lie, or libel, it should be deleted.

Taking OP and Bill's posts, I don't see any lie or libel. OP clearly did not understand why a completely different broker was listing the unit for sale at a different price (not showing buyer will pay closing, making it appear lower). Bill acknowledges this occurred.

While OP has not returned, there still are some unanswered questions. Bill does not say he had any direct relationship with OP or her listing, but that he was "authorized" to cross-list Don's listings by Don. It seems reasonable to believe that Don may not have expressly advised the OP that her listing would be advertised by other brokers, with a different price structure (albeit the same ultimate price), as OP clearly thought something untoward was going on.

I think this thread remains informative to both buyers and sellers as to how brokers operate.

 

[ResaleExpert]

Thank you
While I doubt Don informs his selling listing clients that their price is advertised differently it has not been an issue in the over 100 of Don's weeks I've sold. Don knows I was doing this for years.

As the NET to seller is exactly the same whether listed with Seller paying the $650 Hyatt and $725 escrow at a higher price or my previous ads with the buyer paying these costs (as is typical with every other broker) it has never been an issue prior.
Of course, ultimately the seller has the right to agree to the price and terms when the agreement is sent which makes this owner's comments out of line.

 

[NiteMaire]

Taking OP and Bill's posts, I don't see any lie or libel. OP clearly did not understand why a completely different broker was listing the unit for sale at a different price (not showing buyer will pay closing, making it appear lower). Bill acknowledges this occurred.
<snip>
I think this thread remains informative to both buyers and sellers as to how brokers operate.

While I understand your point, I'm not sure I see the benefit of keeping this thread. You have to sort through more than 100 posts before getting the explanation (post #102). There's a lot of speculation and misinformation along the way. Then again, I've seen the same in other (unrelated) threads.

 

[RX8]

I doubt that we will ever hear from the OP again. The week at the center of all this is listed as "sale pending". It would be quite ironic if Bill sold it.

 

[ResaleExpert]

Irony of Ironies; I DID sell it at his full list price to some great buyer clients.
OF course, Hyatt exercised (which is the FIRST Sunset Harbor I've had Hyatt buy back)

 

[heathpack]

Irony of Ironies; I DID sell it at his full list price to some great buyer clients.
OF course, Hyatt exercised (which is the FIRST Sunset Harbor I've had Hyatt buy back)

Ha!

too bad for your buyers though

 

[ResaleExpert]

Well Hyatt bought it back which was a surprise.
my buyers are getting another one though!

 

[scoutings]

Delete

 

[scoutings]

Someone else can't sell your unit. You hold the deed. Some other seller could call you and claim they have found a buyer, but you can just hang up on them. You control your own property.

I think what is happening here is that there are many, many similar timeshare units for sale and this is likely just another one. Your name is not on the ad.

If this one is advertised for less it likely means yours is overpriced or the person selling it wants to get out fast. How much is your timeshare really worth? Do you know?

If you have your timeshare priced right it will sell. You will decide to sell.

What's being missed here, methinks, is:

1. how brokers mediate the relationship between buyers and sellers and can influence the resale market.
2. timeshare resales are not heavily regulated, so there are communities whose dialogue shapes a sense of what's right and wrong.
3. it is not easy to learn about timeshares. The Timeshare Vacations for Dummies was published in 2005 and it's not really a good or straightforward way to think about what to buy, when and from who.

If we want to say "buyer beware" we need to know of what? The lesson learned here is that sellers (and many of us) don't understand the resale industry and its players and its practices.

 

[ResaleExpert]

Broker Bill Gabrielli here; in my OVER 1,000 Hyatt sales alone in 18 years I have never misrepresented ANY buyer or seller and the original post/ complaint is not correct and should be removed.
As previously stated, I advertised at the same price with broker Don Heisler's permission. THE DIFFERENCE is Don has an all in price ($650 to Hyatt and $725 to escrow) which is different than almost every other broker, so like most, I advertised this week PLUS the costs to equal his listing price. So the seller thought I was advertising for less than his price.
This has nothing to do with Redweek who contacted me due to this and was 100% satisfied with the reality of the listing being correct.
THIS WAS not deceptive advertising in any way.

TO MODERATOR; I appreciate that this still has a FALSE negative associated with the seller's misunderstanding and not checking with Don Heisler prior to making these false statements.
I agree with SCOUTINGS as this post has evolved to other issues NOT MY FALSE accusation and should be removed,
Thank you

 

[scoutings]

delete

 

[scoutings]

delete