[2021] Deceptive Practice [a broker] - Deceptive Practice

[scoutings]

I agree with SCOUTINGS as this post has evolved to other issues NOT MY FALSE accusation and should be removed,

There's a lot to learn and few reliable sources. I agree with @ResaleExpert that the thread evolved, but I learned a lot from going back and re-reading it carefully. Why remove it?

... and it's not just buyer beware.

@ResaleExpert recognizes himself as a significant Hyatt resale broker. That makes this case particularly illustrative. It underscores the significance of fair and honest representation.

 

[Snowbird12345]

How do you know it was your timeshare? Maybe he has the same week with someone else?

BUYERS BEWARE: " He said He said? "
I recently closed on a 2-bedroom Timeshare at the Hyatt Coconut Plantation / Bonita Springs. The broker we purchased this from is Bill Gabrielli - despite how he toots his own horn I found him to be very deceitful. The Sellers brokers name is Don Heisler apparently these two agents have a long history together. Once the agreed price was met and were awaiting the process to play out Bill re-listed the same unit, the same week for sale, slightly less than we paid and when confronted he claimed this was a glitch with Redweek. We closed on The Hyatt Residence Coconut Plantation in December with the promise of week 3 usage in January 2022. The exact dates had been confirmed many times as I had to book Airline tickets and asked if I could book the transportation, which he said "yes go ahead and get your tickets". Our closing expenses included the Maintenance fee for week 3 for 2022 usage. To try to make a long story short, 3 days ago 17 days before we were to fly out, he advised Hyatt timeshare dates in 2022 are different than the standard timeshare calendar which we were never made aware of ( a entire week later). After a not so pleasant conversation Bill Gabrielli advised he had a unit and would be able to get us a guest certificate for the dates we initially thought we were scheduled for. This totally eased our tension and we accepted this. That evening
I then receive a TEXT /Email, that there is no unit available for us after all, after going back & fourth, he then offered to buy our unit back for what we paid, or he can put us in a studio. After many tense conversations we asked him to just send us our 2022 maintenance fees back in which he agreed. We now have airplane travel expenses which we took as a loss, his matter was so upsetting since our vacation plans were totally ruined, we just had to move on as I just did not want to deal with this person again. Something was NOT ethical about this matter, so I had to make one more call, to the sellers' agent Don Heisler who tells me this timeshare was clearly listed for sale to begin week 3 2023 NOT 2022 as Bill Gabrielli listed and portrayed it to us. I NOW did an extensive Google search of this agent only to find threads of situations with Bill Gabrielli's and Don Heisler's name on them. Apparently, Bill mirrors other brokers timeshare that they are selling on other sites like Redweek etc. to make a quick $$$. I also noticed that our timeshare in question is actively listed for sale on another timeshare sale site. I found this entire process unethical, disheartening, misleading & untruthful. At this time, I still have no idea who was telling the truth or lying therefore I suggest you think twice when you see these agents/brokers names Bill Gabrielli, Don Heisler listed as the individuals selling a timeshare.

 

[ResaleExpert]

This is a very disturbing and false accusation that I expect to be retracted.

I had authorization from Don to sell this week AND stated in the written email offer to Don that the buyer would reimburse Don's seller for use this year. This was part of the offer and in writing.

This buyer signed the closing documents showing use was NOT reserved (points were there but no reservation).
After closing I did everything I could to find a rental to replace the week for them AT MY COST.

I offered to buy the week back (since they had closed) or to REIMBURSE their dues - they accepted a check for the full dues amount AND STATED THIS IS A FULL RELEASE. NOW he is accusing me of unethical behavior? My 'quick buck' commission was under $400 AND I PAID THEM almost $1,500 out of my pocket for the miss by the seller's broker?

Hyatt DID change their calendar for 2022 by using Jan. 1, 2022 as week 53 from year 2021.

They agreed to the terms, took their dues reimbursement and NOW post this months later? They own this week forever and could have 'returned it' at FULL costs.

Again, this was only me doing everything possible for my buyer client, nothing misleading, unethical or untruthful as they posted.

I have NEVER 'mirrored' other broker's listings as accused (for nor reason) and have worked with Don over 10 years with hundreds of Hyatt weeks where I brought in the buyer; I've sold over 1,000 Hyatt weeks alone in 19 years and these comments are not only hurtful but inaccurate. I've never had an issue where I offered to buy the week back or pay their dues; they did not ask for anything else.

Not sure where he saw "his week" listed as it is not from me;

I expect them to immediately remove this post or reply to my emails last week and two days ago regarding the points for this year THAT I PAID FOR.

Bill

 

[davidvel]

This is a very disturbing and false accusation that I expect to be retracted.

I had authorization from Don to sell this week AND stated in the written email offer to Don that the buyer would reimburse Don's seller for use this year. This was part of the offer and in writing.

This buyer signed the closing documents showing use was NOT reserved (points were there but no reservation).
After closing I did everything I could to find a rental to replace the week for them AT MY COST.

I offered to buy the week back (since they had closed) or to REIMBURSE their dues - they accepted a check for the full dues amount AND STATED THIS IS A FULL RELEASE. NOW he is accusing me of unethical behavior? My 'quick buck' commission was under $400 AND I PAID THEM almost $1,500 out of my pocket for the miss by the seller's broker?

Hyatt DID change their calendar for 2022 by using Jan. 1, 2022 as week 53 from year 2021.

They agreed to the terms, took their dues reimbursement and NOW post this months later? They own this week forever and could have 'returned it' at FULL costs.

Again, this was only me doing everything possible for my buyer client, nothing misleading, unethical or untruthful as they posted.

I have NEVER 'mirrored' other broker's listings as accused (for nor reason) and have worked with Don over 10 years with hundreds of Hyatt weeks where I brought in the buyer; I've sold over 1,000 Hyatt weeks alone in 19 years and these comments are not only hurtful but inaccurate. I've never had an issue where I offered to buy the week back or pay their dues; they did not ask for anything else.

Not sure where he saw "his week" listed as it is not from me;

I expect them to immediately remove this post or reply to my emails last week and two days ago regarding the points for this year THAT I PAID FOR.

Bill

Your side of the story seems pretty close to theirs, but you don't address the "yes go ahead and get your tickets", and some other details.

What part(s) of the post do you contend are inacurarate?

 

[AJCts411]

Would the simple date mix up be because Hyatt added a week 53, a week no one expected to be added? The addition of week 53, not seen in other timeshare calendars, has caused issues for some, including myself since now the Hyatt calendar does not align with the (what I will call) standard time share calendars. Having had dealings with one of these agents, I would not hesitate to do so again.

 

[ResaleExpert]

Thank you- yes, the calendar was a major part of this issue but not the only one.

Primarily their dissatisfaction was that they had signed the closing documents showing no reservation so they did not read the contract. They could have NOT signed but they knew this when they signed. MOST airlines were providing refunds or credit due to Covid so they likely lost nothing financially on this aspect.
( Important: I presented their offer IN WRITING to the seller's broker AND that the reservation was part of their offer). This broker and I work together often and the reservation is always included when dues are reimbursed. I was NOT informed that the seller had not reserved their week until Christmas week and by then there were no openings to reserve.

All of these aspects created the issue which was covered with them continuously. I had rented a week 3 for them THEN they said this was the wrong date FOR THEM - I was able to cancel but and tried to rent another week for them - AT MY SIGNIFICANT COST to satisfy them and I ALSO OFFERED to buy back or other options including REIMBURSING them for the dues.
They agreed that from next year on this would be a perfect week and unit for them.

I guess that THIS ONE unhappy person after over 1,000 happy Hyatt buyer clients in 19 years is not quite perfect but certainly my actions were always to provide the best options for them.
That is what makes his post so frustrating. I spend considerable time over Christmas time and $1,550 to satisfy them.

Now, 6 weeks after their 'week 3' and 9 weeks after they received their dues reimbursed they chose to not even contact me prior to posting this inaccurate and possibly actionable article.

I have asked twice for them to remove their post and I will formally ask one more time prior to my next steps to protect my stellar reputation.

 

[davidvel]

Thank you- yes, the calendar was a major part of this issue but not the only one.

Primarily their dissatisfaction was that they had signed the closing documents showing no reservation so they did not read the contract. They could have NOT signed but they knew this when they signed. MOST airlines were providing refunds or credit due to Covid so they likely lost nothing financially on this aspect.
( Important: I presented their offer IN WRITING to the seller's broker AND that the reservation was part of their offer). This broker and I work together often and the reservation is always included when dues are reimbursed. I was NOT informed that the seller had not reserved their week until Christmas week and by then there were no openings to reserve.

All of these aspects created the issue which was covered with them continuously. I had rented a week 3 for them THEN they said this was the wrong date FOR THEM - I was able to cancel but and tried to rent another week for them - AT MY SIGNIFICANT COST to satisfy them and I ALSO OFFERED to buy back or other options including REIMBURSING them for the dues.
They agreed that from next year on this would be a perfect week and unit for them.

I guess that THIS ONE unhappy person after over 1,000 happy Hyatt buyer clients in 19 years is not quite perfect but certainly my actions were always to provide the best options for them.
That is what makes his post so frustrating. I spend considerable time over Christmas time and $1,550 to satisfy them.

Now, 6 weeks after their 'week 3' and 9 weeks after they received their dues reimbursed they chose to not even contact me prior to posting this inaccurate and possibly actionable article.

I have asked twice for them to remove their post and I will formally ask one more time prior to my next steps to protect my stellar reputation.

Other than that you didn't relist the unit, what specific portions of their post are in accurate? It would seem their key beefs are:
-The exact dates had been confirmed many times as I had to book Airline tickets and asked if I could book the transportation, which he said "yes go ahead and get your tickets

- 3 days ago, 17 days before we were to fly out, he advised Hyatt timeshare dates in 2022 are different than the standard timeshare calendar which we were never made aware of ( a entire week later). After a not so pleasant conversation Bill Gabrielli advised he had a unit and would be able to get us a guest certificate for the dates we initially thought we were scheduled for. This totally eased our tension and we accepted this.

-I then receive a TEXT /Email, that there is no unit available for us after all

Are these statements not true? If they were it would make sense why they just posted after all this time. I still l don't see where each of your stories are significantly diverging.

 

[bogey21]

This is clearly a personal dispute between OP and Bill Gabrielli. Both have had their say. The rest of us can choose to pick a side or let it go. I choose to let it go...

George

 

[mamasnow]

For those of us thinking about selling, is this possibly a result of some "trolling" in the unregulated resale market?

 

[mamasnow]

I can see how his doing this could result in you getting a lower offer, but it is not like he can undercut you on price. If a buyer really wants to buy a unit they will have to come up to a price you will accept or one someone with a real unit to sell is willing to accept.

wait wait. most of us have no specific unit, only a yearly ability to use our owners week, whether it is in season to not, and if we get online in time to reserve before our preferred time is 'gone". our deed says we "own" week 13, but we have seldom been able to get our week even after close to 20 years of deeded time. deeded week seems passe product in the timeshare world. is the poster saying they actually have a title to a specific building and unit? that might change my mind about the posting since few of us seem to have this on our deeds.

 

[mamasnow]

So this brings us full circle. Bill is advertising the same units listed by Don, and they may be affiliated with the same agency. So Bill is bringing more potential buyers. No problem here, as buyer agents do this all the time, and it benefits the seller.

But, it also appears Bill is representing that they are "his" listings, and with a different list price than Don, and a price reduction not reflected in Don's listing. This is a problem, at it makes a buyer believe the seller has listed it at Bill's price, which the buyer here denies. I still say this should be resolved by Don as he is the broker with the listing agreement with the seller. If they are somehow related (or in cahoots) this is a breach of fiduciary duty.

okay this is trolling by both agents or whatever they call themselves BUT OP do you have a deed with this unit and actual week on it?

 

[mamasnow]

Ekaufman11
Guest
Joined Jan 30, 2021
Last seen Feb 5, 2021

and it is March 2022. no answers and why is this still up if it is resolved

 

[ResaleExpert]

At this time I've been advised to not post until this is resolved; then I will be pleased to update. Thank you

 

[ResaleExpert]

okay this is trolling by both agents or whatever they call themselves BUT OP do you have a deed with this unit and actual week on it?

***WE are each licensed real estate brokers with about 20 years of timeshare experience and ~1,000 Hyatt weeks sold EACH; we work together as I have Don's permission to advertise his listings which I identify to all prospects.

***Not sure why anyone would say "whatever they call themselves". We each operate with the highest of integrity and this is offensive

***While almost every timeshare resale broker has a list selling price PLUS Hyatt's $650 and escrow paid by buyer.
Don chooses to list WITH THESE buyer costs included in his list price

*So Don's $10,000 all in is the same as my ads of $8,625 plus costs (again, as almost every broker prices).
THIS IS THE SAME NET COST to a buyer and very simple to explain to anyone who would take the time to ask me vs making false statements without understanding this.

 

[mamasnow]

no one answered my question, did the OP have a deed with this unit/building and week on it, and did OP list it with more than one broker involved, or no broker? who placed the 1st listing? what did OP list? someone back at the start of all this (the OP) seemed to have claimed they listed a particular unit in a particular building that they thought had a set time to use yearly. Is all this true? Is Hyatt different from Marriot, and you can actually own a given unit in a given building during a specific week (not floating like other places) and expect to use it every year? What did the buyer actually buy? Was this more an issue with the seller who claims the "right" to their listing but did not have an actual reservation for the week/unit/building at said resort, and the confusion has led to one or more of the brokers feeling they are offended and the buyer claimed interference in the purchase? This never got clearer, even as I went back and reread. Marriott's listed weeks seem to change every year, and the weeks 52 and sometimes 53 have never been explained to my satisfaction. I own Marriott, not Hyatt, so I have even less knowledge about how they designate timeshare weeks. Don't blame anyone for not being certain that there hasn't been more than one misunderstanding. 1 listing, 1 broker and a 2nd listing by a 2nd broker, and what was the real listing? were both of them the same or different? If both listings were accurate, why not say so? Don't take another tugger to task for asking for some clarity when the issues were clear as mud.

 

[heathpack]

no one answered my question, did the OP have a deed with this unit/building and week on it, and did OP list it with more than one broker involved, or no broker? who placed the 1st listing? what did OP list? someone back at the start of all this (the OP) seemed to have claimed they listed a particular unit in a particular building that they thought had a set time to use yearly. Is all this true? Is Hyatt different from Marriot, and you can actually own a given unit in a given building during a specific week (not floating like other places) and expect to use it every year? What did the buyer actually buy? Was this more an issue with the seller who claims the "right" to their listing but did not have an actual reservation for the week/unit/building at said resort, and the confusion has led to one or more of the brokers feeling they are offended and the buyer claimed interference in the purchase? This never got clearer, even as I went back and reread. Marriott's listed weeks seem to change every year, and the weeks 52 and sometimes 53 have never been explained to my satisfaction. I own Marriott, not Hyatt, so I have even less knowledge about how they designate timeshare weeks. Don't blame anyone for not being certain that there hasn't been more than one misunderstanding. 1 listing, 1 broker and a 2nd listing by a 2nd broker, and what was the real listing? were both of them the same or different? If both listings were accurate, why not say so? Don't take another tugger to task for asking for some clarity when the issues were clear as mud.

All Hyatt weeks have a deed with a specific week and unit. The owner must call Hyatt to book this week or it is given up to club use.

In this case, the unit was listed with Broker A. Broker A has a relationship with Broker B such that Broker B also markets weeks for Broker A. In this case, it sounds like OP contacted Broker B who was working to facilitate the sale of Broker A's listing. Broker A's client was thought to have booked his reserved week, but apparently did not. So no 2022 week was available. Additionally, there was confusion because of this being a year with 53 weeks- OP thought the dates would be 123 but they were actually 456 because of the unusual calendar this year. It sounds like Broker B actually at his own expense rented a week for OP for dates 456 but they could not use these dates because they were expecting 123.

Bottom line: it sounds like there was miscommunication between seller-Broker A- and Broker B about whether the underlying owned week for 2022 had been booked. When the mistake was discovered, Broker B did everything he could to make things right for the buyer but the buyer was not satisfied on account of having purchased plane tickets for the 123 dates. The MF for the 2022 date were returned to the buyer and the buyer proceeded with the purchase of the week. They are understandably aggrieved by the error and the loss of their expected vacation this year. But IMO mistakes happen, all one can do is attempt to rectify a mistake to the extent possible. As a buyer, you can be angry but to disparage someone's ethics because they made a mistake is a low blow. I have made mistakes in my profession, done everything in my power to attempt to rectify, been unable to completely rectify, but tried really hard. At some point as a society we really do need to accept that mistakes happen and stop having internet tantrums about it when the mistake is fixed as fully as humanly possible.

 

[ResaleExpert]

That was a great explanation (better than I could explain) and I appreciate your comment. Thank you.

The ONLY item to clarify from my earlier posts is my offer for my clients WAS in writing / email to the seller's broker and specifically stated: Reimbursement of Dues for use / occupancy of week 3, 2022. The seller's broker sent the agreement to my buyer client without my copy (DocuSign - we are now making sure every contract has me copied as well as estoppels which I was not copied on then and am now)
This went through escrow without the reservation, signed by buyer and was not rectified AFTER closing by the seller or his broker; I DID do everything and the buyers got their dues back ( wish I had insisted I buy it back vs. paying them the $1,550 )...
So the seller made out and while it was not my mistake in this case (we all make them) I did everything possible for these buyers including paying them $1,550 (who got a great price too)

 

[escanoe]

While I understand your point, I'm not sure I see the benefit of keeping this thread. You have to sort through more than 100 posts before getting the explanation (post #102). There's a lot of speculation and misinformation along the way. Then again, I've seen the same in other (unrelated) threads.

Almost a year later, and I still agree with @NiteMaire on this. I realize there are plenty of rational people that disagree.

I pity the newcomer to this thread. TL;DR should apply to most.

 

[magmue]

It is such a long and rambling thread for the first 4-5 pages that it is easy to miss the fact that the original Accused responded with a sensible explanation once he became aware of the complaint.

IMO it would help enormously if a Mod could add a postscript in the original post along the lines of "See Post #102 for the Broker's full response". And then maybe close the thread. The new complaint by a new Guest muddies the waters by resurrecting the old thread instead of starting his/her own.

 

[mamasnow]

thank you answers #141 and 142. that is clearly stated and you both answered my questions. bye bye

 

[theo]

I won't hold my breath waiting for one time poster / drive-by shooter "Snowbird12345" to apologize to (and / or thank) broker Bill Gabrielli for his efforts and / or for incurring significant out of pocket expenses on their ungrateful and underinformed behalf.

The old saying that "no good deed goes unpunished" somehow comes to mind here; truly (and sadly) representative of our too-entitled times.

 

[davidvel]

I won't hold my breath waiting for one time poster / drive-by shooter "Snowbird12345" to apologize to (and / or thank) broker Bill Gabrielli for his efforts and / or for incurring out of pocket expenses on their ungrateful and underinformed behalf.

The old saying that "no good deed goes unpunished" somehow comes to mind here; truly emblematic of our entitled times.

ResaleExpert has not denied these statements by Snowbird, which seem to be the true beef and not necessarily a "good deed":

-The exact dates had been confirmed many times as I had to book Airline tickets and asked if I could book the transportation, which he said "yes go ahead and get your tickets"

- 3 days ago, 17 days before we were to fly out, he advised Hyatt timeshare dates in 2022 are different than the standard timeshare calendar which we were never made aware of ( a entire week later). After a not so pleasant conversation Bill Gabrielli advised he had a unit and would be able to get us a guest certificate for the dates we initially thought we were scheduled for. This totally eased our tension and we accepted this.

-I then receive a TEXT /Email, that there is no unit available for us after all

 

[Queenly2023]

All Hyatt weeks have a deed with a specific week and unit. The owner must call Hyatt to book this week or it is given up to club use.

In this case, the unit was listed with Broker A. Broker A has a relationship with Broker B such that Broker B also markets weeks for Broker A. In this case, it sounds like OP contacted Broker B who was working to facilitate the sale of Broker A's listing. Broker A's client was thought to have booked his reserved week, but apparently did not. So no 2022 week was available. Additionally, there was confusion because of this being a year with 53 weeks- OP thought the dates would be 123 but they were actually 456 because of the unusual calendar this year. It sounds like Broker B actually at his own expense rented a week for OP for dates 456 but they could not use these dates because they were expecting 123.

Bottom line: it sounds like there was miscommunication between seller-Broker A- and Broker B about whether the underlying owned week for 2022 had been booked. When the mistake was discovered, Broker B did everything he could to make things right for the buyer but the buyer was not satisfied on account of having purchased plane tickets for the 123 dates. The MF for the 2022 date were returned to the buyer and the buyer proceeded with the purchase of the week. They are understandably aggrieved by the error and the loss of their expected vacation this year. But IMO mistakes happen, all one can do is attempt to rectify a mistake to the extent possible. As a buyer, you can be angry but to disparage someone's ethics because they made a mistake is a low blow. I have made mistakes in my profession, done everything in my power to attempt to rectify, been unable to completely rectify, but tried really hard. At some point as a society we really do need to accept that mistakes happen and stop having internet tantrums about it when the mistake is fixed as fully as humanly possible.

Well stated!!!!

 

[Carolinian]

So let’s say you have a broker that lists your home for $300,000 and you have an exclusive with that broker. Then you see your same home on someone’s site who you don’t know for $250,000, how would you feel? Someone without your permission is listing your home for less than what your asking for without your permission. Extremely Deceptive

Most realtors contracts are "exclusive right to sell" but some are "exclusive agency", but a third party has no right under either to go out and try to sell your property, be it a house, a timeshare, or anything else.

I would suggest contacting the Florida Real Estate Commission on this and get them involved.

 

[2009hc]

They are both great guys. It is simple Don includes the closing costs and transfer fees, and Bill does not.