[2016] Account review email [Accts. suspended]

[Braindead]

I also had a conversation with Wyndham and the attorney. I can see what the issue is....the point computer or whatever it's called. I own 3.7 million points. I have used about 1.5 and have reservations in the neighborhood of 2.5 million to the end of the year. With all that somehow there are currently 3.6 million showing on my account status ( the only page I can see right now). No clue how they got there. I have not credit pooled anything. I do the cancel/ rebook with pretty good success but not anywhere close to put 3.6 million in the account. I asked them to protect my personal reservations if they decide to do a sweep and they said they would notify me before they start cancelling. I don't know why they need to suspend the account while they audit...they control the computer.
Mike

Maybe if all of you made a reservation at 60 days or less and got the 50 percent discount - free upgrade. Then cancelled atleast 15 days prior to checkin the cancelled reservation points came back as if no upgrade & discount. If you started out with a reservation for 100k points ended up with a reservation worth 400k points and cancelled the computer gave you 400k back instead of the 100k. I hope this all gets taken care of ASAP for all involved

 

[Braindead]

Maybe if all of you made a reservation at 60 days or less and got the 50 percent discount - free upgrade. Then cancelled atleast 15 days prior to checkin the cancelled reservation points came back as if no upgrade & discount. If you started out with a reservation for 100k points ended up with a reservation worth 400k points and cancelled the computer gave you 400k back instead of the 100k. I hope this all gets taken care of ASAP for all involved

If this is what happened and Wyndham could prove somehow the individual knew this and kept doing it repeatedly cheating the system they could be some legal trouble. But it would be very difficult to prove I think. Does Wyndham have the right to pull VIP benefits from someone if they knowingly cheated the system

 

[CO skier]

I agree with you cancelling and rebooking is a gross abuse of the system and has to be closed, but thats not the subject or purpose of this particular witch hunt.. They are looking for bigger problems, that in my opinion dont exist

I have heard of 3 other owner/mega renters that had their accounts frozen (one of which had 5 million+ points worth of reservations canceled). This is all been deduced from conversations I have with these people. It seems like there are 2 situations they are looking for. The first one is if you purchase a contract from and book up the points in the contract before it transfers to you, it will duplicate most if not all the reservations. SO you will see 2 reservations with the same confirmation number for the same dates and room size. When you cancel both of these reservations you get the point total for each one. So if you have a million point contract, you could turn that into close to 5 to 6 million points by pooling all points and booking reservations before the transfer. Since you shouldn't have gotten these, they will take them back.

It sounds as though this witch hunt may be rooting out some guilty parties, and in that sense it may be justified. It also sounds as though cancel-rebook might get a pass, which is too bad because it does create artificial competition that reduces the chances of owners to book certain reservations. It will not change my opinion of the practice.

It is Wyndham's system to run as they see fit.

 

[CO skier]

This makes me very glad I don't own a whole bunch of Wyndham points. Yikes.

I don’t think owning a lot of points in Wyndham is the problem. It was mentioned that a 10 million point account was not frozen.

As a Club Wyndham owner, I am impressed by how quickly and the extent to which they acted to maintain the credibility of the system.

 

[Sloane S]

As a Club Wyndham owner, I am impressed by how quickly and the extent to which they acted to maintain the credibility of the system.

Quickly? Rolling points has been going on for years. Cancelled points not returning to where they are supposed to go is entirely of Wyndham's own ineptitude when it come to IT changes.

 

[CO skier]

Quickly? Rolling points has been going on for years. Cancelled points not retiring to where they are supposed to go is entirely of Wyndham's own ineptitude when it come to IT changes.

I do not know why everyone is so fixated on the credit pool.

I was referring to those who book reservations before a contract transfer, receive double bookingsw when it is transferred, then cancel and collect double the points (at least that is how I understood what was described).

 

[acesneights99]

This is the worst Wyndham travesty yet. They've taken away unlimited GC, then they took away free family guest certificates and then they stopped selling or transferring
points and pooling points between accounts.

Now that we are forced to rent out because a family weekend costs more in GC than point maintenance fees, they freeze my account the day before I wanted to book 8 units for an every two year family reunion.

By time they get around to unfreezing my account there won't be 8 units left.

So sad. And they couldn't care less.

Guess I should start hanging around the sales office and tell everyone to buy their points for $1 on eBay since at least you won't lose more than a $1 when they decide that they're going to convert your points to a fixed week at the beach in December.

 

[ronparise]

I do not know why everyone is so fixated on the credit pool.

I was referring to those who book reservations before a contract transfer, receive double bookingsw when it is transferred, then cancel and collect double the points (at least that is how I understood what was described).

I think Im responsible for the credit pool fixation because in a post in another thread someone asked how it was possible for a 2 million point account to have 8 million points in reservations,, I offered the credit pool as one explanation... and in my case the aggressive use of the credit pool is exactly how I got into trouble



what you describe happens only when you buy the last contract in an account and when there were reservations in that account

I did a lot of buying and selling in the last several years I dont think that ever happened to me.. In fact Jasons post was the first I ever knew such a thing did happen.

My usual experience is that when I bought something the points came with it exactly as expected, either the current year and the next 2 years , or just the next two years.. I got burned twice as I recall when both the current year and the next year were missing and I only got the third year.. I never got a contract that came with reservations

 

[ronparise]

Quickly? Rolling points has been going on for years. Cancelled points not retiring to where they are supposed to go is entirely of Wyndham's own ineptitude when it come to IT changes.

You beat me too it.. Ive been doing what I do for 3 years.and I gotta say I havent been shy about it. they knew; apparently they didnt understand.

This wasnt quick by a longshot

 

[Braindead]

I've been in business and around big business my whole life. I've never seen a business do something like this without cause. I would say the first 2 out of 3 accounts they looked had legitimate problems. Then the blanket came to several accounts and there will be accounts with no problems. But as Ron puts it that's calateral damage. I do hope the cancel rebook comes to an end as a result. It ties up units that are not going to be used. I don't babysit the computer at 60 days or less I've moved on and made other plans.

 

[SueDonJ]

if you hire a lawyer assume that they dont know timeshares at all, very few do. and no way Id hire someone in your home state. Hire someone from Orlando. Tharts where Wyndham is.

and if you do find one that seems to know what they are doing you might ask if you can refer others of us to them.

That's why I'd contact your home state Bar Association, Ron, because they'll be able to connect you with an attorney who will be familiar with timeshare/real estate law. They'll also be able to advise as to whether you need to be dealing with a lawyer licensed to practice in your resident state and/or Florida because that's where Wyndham is.

Contacting the Bar Association should result in a quicker match to a lawyer who will be able to help. It also will greatly lessen the risks that result from searching ads and/or responding to unsolicited appeals (which this thread is probably generating.)

It's a very good suggestion that once one of you finds a lawyer who's qualified to help, ask if his/her contact information can be passed among all of you.

Good luck!

 

[CO skier]

This is the worst Wyndham travesty yet. They've taken away unlimited GC, then they took away free family guest certificates and then they stopped selling or transferring
points and pooling points between accounts.

Look back at the history for those changes about 2006-2007, and you will find that Wyndham did not want to change anything. A few (or many) megarenters "maximized their ownership" to the detriment of other owners and the program as a whole, so they made changes they thought would be fair to all owners.

It did not work. Megarenter absorbed the costs or found work arounds.

Do not blame Wyndham, they were and are trying to protect all owners; blame the megarenters for these changes.

Now, the megarenters have been abusing the system, again and as usual, and Wyndham is rounding them up, and freezing account, this time. It may be a 10 year cycle when Wyndham wakes up and decides to do something about it.

Meanwhile, "regular Joe" Owners in Club Wyndham, who just want to take their family on a vacation, are enjoying their reprieve for a few weeks from the constant onslaught of more than a few megarenters and their "tricks" and finding it easier to reserve their vacations next July and August. I hope their families have a great time; they certainly paid enough money for it, unlike the VIP megarenter who will ultimately reserve a summer Bonnet Creek 4 Bedroom Presidential for half the cost of a 1 bedroom, or some other equally equivalent unit.

 

[ronparise]

That's why I'd contact your home state Bar Association, Ron, because they'll be able to connect you with an attorney who will be familiar with timeshare/real estate law. They'll also be able to advise as to whether you need to be dealing with a lawyer licensed to practice in your resident state and/or Florida because that's where Wyndham is.

Contacting the Bar Association should result in a quicker match to a lawyer who will be able to help. It also will greatly lessen the risks that result from searching ads and/or responding to unsolicited appeals (which this thread is probably generating.)

It's a very good suggestion that once one of you finds a lawyer who's qualified to help, ask if his/her contact information can be passed among all of you.

Good luck!

Im suggesting an Orlando attorney because it will be cheaper for a guy located in Orlando to meet with the Wyndham attorneys who happen to be in Orlando
Not to mention Orlando is the timeshare capital of the world . You will have a better chance of finding someone familiar with timeshares in Orlando than anywhere else. At least that's my opinion

Actually I think paying an attorney at this point is a waste of time and money. Speaking only for myself. I haven't been accused of doing anything wrong. At this point I have every expectation that this thing will be resolved quickly

Now if it drags on much longer or if I am accused of some wrongdoing I'll change my position but until then I'm cooperating not confronting

My first instinct is to represent myself but if does come to hiring an attorney I'll start with a Florida guy that I know knows timeshares

 

[CO skier]

I do hope the cancel rebook comes to an end as a result.

It is an unfair use of the system. Why else would those engaged feel compelled to cancel and rebook as fast as possible to exclude anyone else? It does sell memberships. Who knows which side Wyndham will favor?

At this point, it seems they will render a verdict in favor of a few VIPs instead of the program as a whole.

But they are clearly looking at everything, and hope springs eternal.

And if Wyndham should decide in favor of the system as a whole, there will have to be paddywagons to hold all the cancel-rebookers.

 

[CO skier]

Im suggesting an Orlando attorney because it will be cheaper for a guy located in Orlando to meet with the Wyndham attorneys who happen to be in Orlando
Not to mention Orlando is the timeshare capital of the world . You will have a better chance of finding someone familiar with timeshares in Orlando than anywhere else. At least that's my opinion

If any jurisdiction would favor a timeshare company, it would be Orlando.

Sue where you purchased the timeshare.

 

[CO skier]

Before anyone spends (wastes?) money suing a timeshare company, they may want to review this sad sequence of events.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206007&highlight=westgate+lawsuit

The attorney involved was clearly incompetent for trying to establish that a contract did not exist in a lawsuit for breach of contract (if that is what is was), but it was clearly an uphill battle and a waste of time suing Westgate, despite the egregious behavior on the part of Westgate.

 

[SueDonJ]

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating that anybody hire an attorney with the purpose of rallying the troops to sue Wyndham. I am saying take a little bit of time now to find an attorney who understands timeshares so that when Wyndham does whatever it is they end up doing with these suspended accounts, you and your attorney will be prepared to discuss whether anything that's happened during this process is worth challenging. Again, be like the Boy Scouts.

Good lawyers (I hear you laughing but really, there ARE good ones!) will offer a free consultation and beginning guidance such as which state laws prevail. Take advantage of the referral service the Bar Association provides. It can't hurt.

 

[Bigrob]

PR owners have special inventory and 'finishes' in their units. IMHO, few mega-renters spent the extra money to buy PR points or that "class" of ownership.

No, what I meant was a PR owner looking for a PR unit and they are all gone as megarenters have them tied up in rental reservations. The "special inventory" advantage is a hoax as I read it. It says 75% of AVAILABLE PR rooms are held for PR. However, once the other 25% is taken it follows that 25% of the "special inventory" becomes open season for everybody til it is gone. And so on til there are no available units. The only true advantage PR has is the 14-13 month window. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong as I am new to Wyndham but have spent a lot of nights pouring over the owner's guide....

As for the "unwashed masses" I don't think that comes into play. In fact I can be considered an unwashed mass as I picked up a Christmas 5-night vacation at Bonnet Creek ina 4BR Presidential last year for $550. It's more about looking on eBay and saying " WTF did I spend all that money for?" Seeing a 4BR Presidential for $700 (or less) for a week does not sit well with people that spent $50k for those "special" rooms.

Presidential Reserve doesn't work quite that way. ONLY PR owners can book PR units (excepting for the 25% or so that are not expressly held for PR owners) until 30 days prior to check-in. Further, only PR points can be used to book a PR unit (unless it has been released to the "unwashed masses" as either the initial 25% or at 30 days). There is no "and so on". To provide an example: Let's say there are 20 Presidential Reserve 3BR units at Bonnet Creek. 15 of these can ONLY be booked by PR owners until 30 days prior to check-in. Once the first 5 are booked by the "unwashed masses" there is no more availability for them.

 

[Bigrob]

And yet another one here too.
Owner of 5.5 mil and 2 Platinum accounts.
Ditto Ditto Ditto Debrink's message below.

>>My account has been suspended too. It was first suspended over a week ago but I was then given partial access by letting me call in to make cancellations and buy guest certificates. Now I have been fully suspended again but I don't know why. I have sent emails and left phone messages so I am just waiting for the call back. I hope no family vacations get ruined over this. Why all the hate from Wyndham for owners paying big maintenance fees and sending them new guests to make their presentations to? Best wishes to all being impacted and hoping for amicable solution.

I see NO reason for our locked account to be locked!!
I'm just livid!!!!

PS Re buying contracts/getting extra points. The account here that is locked is an account where the ownership has not changed nor any new contracts bought in the past 10 years!! So this does not apply to our locked account. Go figure. No call back in over one week and account locked, AND...........not even the courtesy of a 'warning' email!! Just tried to access last Monday and it was locked. And saying for financial reason when account IS current, and no TIMELY explanation is just totally unethical for we regular paying members.

Call the number listed on the lockout screen (Wyndham Financial). It is possible you have an Auto-Pay issue. Many people who were using their CostCo cards to pay maintenance fees have had this problem when those cards were cancelled in June (I know because it happened to me and the financial rep I spoke to said it had happened to lots of others). Perhaps that is your case? If so, paying the balance may get your account unlocked within 24 hours.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

my 2 cents

.......in the midst of buying into the Wyndham program, this is NOT the type of news that I am thrilled to be reading about. I do hope all you guys n gals get it sorted out ASAP with solid explanations of how to move forward unabated.

*****
Companies the size of Wyndham have
SALES
MARKETING
ACCOUNTING.- ( ie BEAN COUNTERS )

skipping marketing - there are times when sales & their goals are dominate
and then the pendulum swings and the bean counters run / ruin the ship for a while . Then the pendulum swings back because it is hard to grow when sales has no clout or say .

Right now it sounds like the bean counters at Wyndham are running the Spanish
Inquisition .

When folks like Slinger do not buy because of fear of the future Wyndham , and some on this forum who start wearing the TUG - I paid more for this shirt than my timeshare - Tee Shirt . all week - at the pool , in the lobby and near the sales office . there is likely to be some movement in the pendulum .

I am seeing Wyndham owners with more than a million points and not a lot of prior TUG posts
joining this conversation .

I would love to see how the resort sales team likes their feedback the next time they do a Wyndham owner update .

.

 

[CO skier]

Good lawyers (I hear you laughing but really, there ARE good ones!) will offer a free consultation and beginning guidance such as which state laws prevail.

Lawyers, good or otherwise, are in the business of billable hours. They are not in the business of winning lawsuits, unless it is a contingency, in which case the lawyers will get millions and everyone in the class they represent will get nothing in the settlement, or maybe a coupon for something.

It would be more cost effective to accept whatever Wyndham offers, especially if it preserves cancel-rebook (an unbelievably lucky result, from a megarenter's point of view), and proceed from there.

Look at the failed lawsuits of VIP owners Spearman, Sirmon and others. How much money did the plaintiffs waste on those?

 

[jebloomquist]

Do not blame Wyndham, they were and are trying to protect all owners; blame the megarenters for these changes.

Now, the megarenters have been abusing the system, again and as usual, and Wyndham is rounding them up, and freezing account, this time. It may be a 10 year cycle when Wyndham wakes up and decides to do something about it.

"Do not blame Wyndham." What? When was the last time you attended an "update"? One of the problems in this thread is that all too frequently Wyndham has been considered as a monolith, where all parts are considered to be thinking exactly the same.

I have been to updates where I have been encouraged to do the half points 1 bedroom followed by an upgrade to a 2 bedroom , and then to hand the reservation back to Wyndham in the Extra Holidays program. There Wyndham will rent it for me at a profit. And of course, please buy extra points from me the humble Wyndham sales person so that you can do this wonderful thing. Just who is ultimately screwing the average owner in this scenario? Actually everybody except Wyndham gets screwed here. All too frequently only part of the reservation actually gets booked by Extra Holidays and the owner submitting to Extra Holidays gets very little.

Wyndham’s aggressive sales policy is at the root of much of this problem. Sucking the life savings out of an unsuspecting public is far more egregious than the mega-renter doing what Wyndham has encouraged owners to do.

Jim

 

[John or Jane Doe]

My take on all of this

Consolidating into the following categories, I think this covers it. Copied from earlier post by Roger830 and modified/added to.

POOLING. Canceled points not returning to the credit pool make current year points more than the amount owned.
STRIPPING. Points from stripped contracts left in the account don't equate to amount now owned.
ROLLING. Points rolled over from year to year by canceling into a different use year accumulate.
ACCOUNTING. Accounting discrepancies. Duplication of reservations when purchasing contracts and other system issues.

Whether we like any of these scenarios, think they are ethical, etc, or not is irrelevant. The effect, IMO:

POOLING – This is a Wyndham system issue. Isn’t this in effect Wyndham charging owners to extend the life of their points, then expiring them early (kind of a reverse ROLLING effect). Only person benefiting here is Wyndham. We pay to pool our points, only to have them expire 2 years earlier than they should.

STRIPPING. Allowed by Wyndham policies. We can borrow 2 years in advance and use the points. This has always happened. What I am seeing here is buyer beware. And for Wyndham to agree to take back stripped accounts is their own fault and they need to own that. We call it stripping if someone sells the account, but credit pooling and using the points is okay? Book wise isn’t it the same? As long as someone pays the maintenance, what’s the difference (again, buyer beware).

ROLLING. Rolling occurred for years. Wyndham was fully aware, it’s been discussed openly on tug . Sales used that it as a selling point to market a contract with a different use year to you for that purpose. Rolled points are paid for yet not yet used . Perhaps rolled points were somewhat offsetting stripping and/or pooling. Maybe we need to bring it back?

ACCOUNTING. Wyndham has struggled systematically as long as I’ve been associated with them. Our banks wouldn’t get away with making us liable if they were unable to balance our accounts. Wyndham has yet to be able to resolve very significant issues around point management/points accounting.

I am not justifying the suspension of accounts in any way shape or form. This sucks. However, auditing a moving target is a challenge. Perhaps suspending accounts gives Wyndham a little help in that area? That said, their track record is not good. If they can’t manage our points correctly, where’s the credibility of an audit?

With most things Wyndham, system issues are significant, changes are not well tested, process changes do not seem well thought out nor implemented across the board, and reactions are knee-jerk. The suspension of accounts appears to be a knee-jerk reaction to some very deep rooted, significant, long occurring issues at Wyndham.

Wyndham is the one changing the rules, we adapt. They shouldn’t be able to retroactively change the rules (keeping up moving forward is challenging enough). If I thought I thought I bought something for a $1, sold it for $2, you can’t go back and change my purchase price to $3.

They need a group of well-versed owner/users to help them out of this hole! They need to fix their systems. Policies and processes need to be implemented across the board and communicated to all departments.

In summary, my finger of shame points directly back Wyndham. They need to own up to their own inadequacies and stop trying to blame the owners. Buck up and take responsibility Wyndham.

 

[Designerd]

Cancelled points to credit pool - I prefer

Wyndham made the situation worse by allowing canceled points to return to the credit pool.

Now when a Christmas week is canceled and rebooked at a 50% discount in November, the points return to the credit pool not canceled points that had to be used by the end of the year.

Now in February, for every 1 million Christmas week points that were canceled and rebooked using the credit pool, there will be 1.5 million points for new reservations. The following year 1.75 million points will be available. Adding the use of future years pooled points compounds the problem.

Hello @Roger 830,
I am not a mega renter, but I wanted to comment that I actually prefer the cancel/credit pool change. It is not easy to find availability or even personal availability for traveling on the the rule of use cancelled points by end of use year. Imagine having an end of use year of Sept. and you have to cancel your reservation in August. What's the possibility of getting a reservation for Sept at a decent place? Very slim...it's hard to do now with your regular points if you don't book at a Year or 13months in advance. It does open up the opportunity for someone to rent a good place at the last minute also on the flip side.

This change allowed me not to waste my money by losing the points. It's actually helping me have a few extra points to go to New York next year (daughter dance competition). Still debating if I want to pay for hotel or speed the high level of points is another story...

But I'm for this change and actually gave Wyndham a thumbs up for this change

 

[John or Jane Doe]

But I'm for this change and actually gave Wyndham a thumbs up for this change

Totally agree with the theory. And if the system worked correctly it would be great.

Unfortunately, systematically it's buggy and IMO a definite contributor to the issues at hand.

If only Wyndham IT could deliver reliable software!