[2016] Account review email [Accts. suspended]

[raygo123]

Let's say Ron is right when he said they are looking for people who steal points by one means or another. The most logical places to look is reservations and the credit pool. If one or both is out of line with what Wyndham considers normal, then how did this happen? They must have stolen them! Eureka!

So one is tied to other.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[ronparise]

We keep saying credit pool, but we don't know if it's a credit pool problem or not.

Let's say Ron is right when he said they are looking for people who steal points by one means or another. The most logical places to look is reservations and the credit pool. If one or both is out of line with what Wyndham considers normal, then how did this happen? They must have stolen them! Eureka!

So one is tied to other.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

If it was that easy and that simple they would have just taken back their points. They didn't do that. They suspended us and to their credit didn't start with the assumption that we are all crooks. They seem to be looking for reasonable explanations. And i think they are learning something about their systems and their programs that contributed to this. And by this I mean an imbalance between points in reservations and points owned

They may still just take the points but I don't think that's the way it will go down
I think there will be as many different resolutions as there are accounts involved

 

[raygo123]

So you don't think you will be sitting at your desk with two machine guns, one in each hand and cigar clenched between your teeth, say, common coppers you'll never take me alive!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[vacationhopeful]

Let's say Ron is right when he said they are looking for people who steal points by one means or another. The most logical places to look is reservations and the credit pool. If one or both is out of line with what Wyndham considers normal, then how did this happen? They must have stolen them! Eureka!

So one is tied to other.

raygo123 .... I can balance my checkbook.

Was Wyndham's reservation system HACKED by outside persons or entities? I personally doubt it. Wyndham "points" are not external financial items.

Was Wyndham's reservation system updates flubbed internally and/or updates NOT fully VETTED? That is MY BET.

This is not something that happened on this day or with that change ... it has been compound for the last 9-10+ months. That is WHY accounts are FROZEN ... Wyndham can't find where the problems (YES, multiple issues) or multiple changes/tweeks in the code as to WHEN it happened ... these accounts are FROZEN for debugging the WHOLE computer system.

Now, if this all gets me my OVERLAPPING cancelled Wyndham points "value restored" from last December thru January ... little hard to "balance the points accounting ledgers" when Wyndham has been vanishing points out of members accounts and OFF the computer system starting back then. Until then, it was possible to added up the Reservation points Used, the Reservations points HELD, and the BORROWED or RENTED Wyndham points.

And I bet the external, outside, corporate computer auditors (and their contractors) are racking up a sizable cost plus tab.

And it will go on for a LONG TIME .... IMHO.

 

[raygo123]

raygo123 .... I can balance my checkbook.

Was Wyndham's reservation system HACKED by outside persons or entities? I personally doubt it. Wyndham "points" are not external financial items.

Was Wyndham's reservation system updates flubbed internally and/or updates NOT fully VETTED? That is MY BET.

This is not something that happened on this day or with that change ... it has been compound for the last 9-10+ months. That is WHY accounts are FROZEN ... Wyndham can't find where the problems (YES, multiple issues) or multiple changes/tweeks in the code as to WHEN it happened ... these accounts are FROZEN for debugging the WHOLE computer system.

Now, if this all gets me my OVERLAPPING cancelled Wyndham points "value restored" from last December thru January ... little hard to "balance the points accounting ledgers" when Wyndham has been vanishing points out of members accounts and OFF the computer system starting back then. Until then, it was possible to added up the Reservation points Used, the Reservations points HELD, and the BORROWED or RENTED Wyndham points.

And I bet the external, outside, corporate computer auditors (and their contractors) are racking up a sizable cost plus tab.

And it will go on for a LONG TIME .... IMHO.

Yes I believe we all felt that was the underlying problem. The trigger and the outcome is at question.
The theft mentioned by Ron was in relation to things like stripped contracts sold and points duplicated or bought stripped and MFs not paid after 3 years of credit pooling has taken place and reservations used.
It had nothing to do with hacking for Euros.



Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[Roger830]

The cancel and rebook thing seems to creates currency, but it doesnt. In an account that does a lot of cancel and rebookings and credit pooling, you can add up all the points in reservations and available to use, and the total wont exceed 4 years of ownership

I agree that cancel and rebook isn't the problem.

If a vip cancels, then rebooks at a 50% discount the points add up.
If the vip uses those points in the current year the only problem that I see is if they cancel by mid February they can the book prime Christmas weeks thus excluding others.

As I stated numerous times, the problem I have is canceling and rebooking with credit pooled points. This frees up points that can then be used in a future year for prime winter and summer weeks.

If a vip has 2,000,000 points booked, then cancels and rebooks, the vip then has 3,000,000 points the next year for prime winter and summer and Christmas weeks.

If the 3,000,000 points are then canceled and rebooked it frees up 1,500,000 points that can be used the following year which now totals 3,500,000 points.

Perhaps your pseudo accounting somehow balances, but all that I see is others being excluded from booking those prime weeks.

 

[SilverLeafOwner]

You misread my post. I did not call Ron or anyone else a scammer; I called cancel-rebook a scam. Some people refer to cancel-rebook as a trick or loophole. It is all synonymous.

There are many methods to turn 2 million points into 8 million points of reservations. As I understand the process, a 2 million point Platinum owner can reserve a Bonnett Creek 1 bedroom for 180,000 points plus a few 3 and/or 4 bedroom Presidentials for 385,000 or 424,000 points, respectively. Within 60 days cancel the 1 bedroom and rebook it for 90,000 points, then cancel one of the Presidentials and upgrade to it, then rebook the 1 bedroom at half cost, cancel another Presidential and upgrade, then rebook the 1 bedroom at half cost, again, and keep repeating until the all the Presidentials are reserved at half the points cost for a 1 bedroom.

Do it right and with a bit of luck, that is how 2 million points becomes 8 million points of reservations. At $6/thousand, 2M points costs $12,000 maintenance fees and 8 million points is worth $48,000. Is this fair use of the system, or is this a scam? Pay $12,000 and walk out the door with $48,000 worth of 13-month reservations? Should Wyndham do something about this or not?

If someone can reserve a 4 bedroom Presidential at 13 months for full points and use it with their family or rent it, that is one thing. If, instead, they cancel-rebook it for 50% off, or manipulate the reservation system to reserve it at half the cost of a studio or 1 bedroom, that negatively impacts other owners, so it should not be allowed. That is just my thought, but that and all the money in my pocket will not get me a Starbucks coffee.

Wyndham’s opinion of the various cancel-rebook schemes is the only opinion that matters. They will investigate and decide to hand the Ferrari keys back to the owners or not. When something similar happened ten years ago, owner-to-owner points transfers were eliminated. Could this latest development mean the end of VIP points discounts? It is not out of the question. How else could they solve the problem, if they think it is a problem worth solving?

Megarenting happens, and it will continue to happen. I think Wyndham is obligated to respond when Owners reserve more than their Fairshare of reservations.

I have to disagree with the characterization of "fairshare" by simply booking or rebooking at discounted points. This is a program setup as an incentive to entice people to buy more to achieve VIP status and I can't tell you how many times I was told that in order to maximize my ownership I needed to get to platinum status. Virtually every salesman pitched me the various techniques of cancelling and rebooking as a means to maximize your point values. There is no "cheating" because this is what they sold me on. I don't rent my points, but I do use the upgrade and discount point feature the vast majority of times I book.

The bigger issue I have is the Megarenters who go out and get a significant portion of their points from the secondary markets for pennies on the dollar and then are allowed to convert them with a little bit of a deed purchase to a full VIP account with benefits. Secondary market points should lose all VIP benefits and not be eligible for benefits unless they paid retail price for all the points they puchased (both from Developer and Secondary). That will eliminate a bulk of the future Megarenters out there (although I don't know if Wyndham can legally take away people who already achieved their status...but through attrition they will disappear).

 

[raygo123]

I agree that cancel and rebook isn't the problem.

If a vip cancels, then rebooks at a 50% discount the points add up.
If the vip uses those points in the current year the only problem that I see is if they cancel by mid February they can the book prime Christmas weeks thus excluding others.

As I stated numerous times, the problem I have is canceling and rebooking with credit pooled points. This frees up points that can then be used in a future year for prime winter and summer weeks.

If a vip has 2,000,000 points booked, then cancels and rebooks, the vip then has 3,000,000 points the next year for prime winter and summer and Christmas weeks.

If the 3,000,000 points are then canceled and rebooked it frees up 1,500,000 points that can be used the following year which now totals 3,500,000 points.

Perhaps your pseudo accounting somehow balances, but all that I see is others being excluded from booking those prime weeks.

There will always be others. I was one for about 30 yrs. There are VIP platinum that are others. When the gates open, your chances are equal. You are also seem to believe that all the availability is dumped in the first day. It's not. Example, dolphin cove there's more available at 10 months.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[learnalot]

I agree that cancel and rebook isn't the problem.

If a vip cancels, then rebooks at a 50% discount the points add up.
If the vip uses those points in the current year the only problem that I see is if they cancel by mid February they can the book prime Christmas weeks thus excluding others.

As I stated numerous times, the problem I have is canceling and rebooking with credit pooled points. This frees up points that can then be used in a future year for prime winter and summer weeks.

Just to clarify something, points in the credit pool are not eligible to be used for ARP reservations. They can only be used for bookings within the standard reservation window, so they have to wait until the booking window opens for everyone. (PR being an exception, essentially, because of the dedicated inventory).

 

[raygo123]

I have to disagree with the characterization of "fairshare" by simply booking or rebooking at discounted points. This is a program setup as an incentive to entice people to buy more to achieve VIP status and I can't tell you how many times I was told that in order to maximize my ownership I needed to get to platinum status. Virtually every salesman pitched me the various techniques of cancelling and rebooking as a means to maximize your point values. There is no "cheating" because this is what they sold me on. I don't rent my points, but I do use the upgrade and discount point feature the vast majority of times I book.

The bigger issue I have is the Megarenters who go out and get a significant portion of their points from the secondary markets for pennies on the dollar and then are allowed to convert them with a little bit of a deed purchase to a full VIP account with benefits. Secondary market points should lose all VIP benefits and not be eligible for benefits unless they paid retail price for all the points they puchased (both from Developer and Secondary). That will eliminate a bulk of the future Megarenters out there (although I don't know if Wyndham can legally take away people who already achieved their status...but through attrition they will disappear).

Have you learned nothing about how and when to make reservations?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[richardm]

The biggest liar is usually the first one to point fingers...

There will always be others. I was one for about 30 yrs. There are VIP platinum that are others. When the gates open, your chances are equal. You are also seem to believe that all the availability is dumped in the first day. It's not. Example, dolphin cove there's more available at 10 months.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Thank you for the reality check... Some members are more educated and experienced in getting the reservations they want. That isn't a crime. That's the goal! In the world of timesharing, there will always be at least 75% of the ownership base that is disappointed they didn't get the prime season reservation. The trick is to try and be in the other 25%.... It takes research, planning, and hours of work with the hope of squeezing as much value from a timeshare ownership as possible. I'm pretty sure that's something Tug has been recommending for years!

Wyndham corporate has been cultivating the "megarenter" propaganda for years now, using that term to stir the masses into a frenzy and to create a mythical scapegoat who diabolically steals all the best reservations. It's like a bad babysitter invoking the boogeyman to keep the kids scared in bed with the covers pulled over their heads.

Wyndham's marketing relies on the VIP discounts, cancel & rebook strategy, as well as the promise of rental profits to sell VIP upgrades on a daily basis. They have "owner education" material that touts the benefits of these VIP strategies. They create the rules used to book reservations. They develop and operate the website portal. They monitor and manage the "points" currency used to book these reservations. And yet somehow, they've managed to convince some people that they aren't to blame when something in their system goes awry...

What sales weasels sell best is hope.. They repackage the same product in new wrapping and promise this new flavor will be much more satisfying than the old one. When this circus ends, they'll walk out to the sales floor with banners and trumpets telling everyone the system has now been fixed- and all you have to do is upgrade to Wyndham 7.0 to truly experience the wonder of vacation ownership... Then, they'll look the target straight in the eye and tell them that discounting their reservations is the best way to stretch that maintenance fee dollar and if they just rent all those "free" points- why that will be a great way to recover some of your annual costs!

Funny that they now want to blame the few who actually listened for using that advice...

 

[ronparise]

I agree that cancel and rebook isn't the problem.

If a vip cancels, then rebooks at a 50% discount the points add up.
If the vip uses those points in the current year the only problem that I see is if they cancel by mid February they can the book prime Christmas weeks thus excluding others.

As I stated numerous times, the problem I have is canceling and rebooking with credit pooled points. This frees up points that can then be used in a future year for prime winter and summer weeks.

If a vip has 2,000,000 points booked, then cancels and rebooks, the vip then has 3,000,000 points the next year for prime winter and summer and Christmas weeks.

If the 3,000,000 points are then canceled and rebooked it frees up 1,500,000 points that can be used the following year which now totals 3,500,000 points.

Perhaps your pseudo accounting somehow balances, but all that I see is others being excluded from booking those prime weeks.

It adds a up because 2000+2000+2000=1000+1500+3500

 

[Roger830]

The points have to balance, but the reservations don't reflect the original intent of the discount. It's stated in the manual that the discount is for reservations made close to checkin date.

Also, I'm well aware that credit pool points do not have arp.

Even though everyone has an equal chance, some that would have gotten a prime week will be excluded because of canceled credit pooled points rolling over into the next year.

 

[raygo123]

The points have to balance, but the reservations don't reflect the original intent of the discount. It's stated in the manual that the discount is for reservations made close to checkin date.

Also, I'm well aware that credit pool points do not have arp.

Even though everyone has an equal chance, some that would have gotten a prime week will be excluded because of canceled credit pooled points rolling over into the next year.

It seems that one problem here is the fact that we are all owners. It is supposed to be but it is not. Someone did it, cancel rebook. It worked, and exploited. It HAS become the policy.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[ronparise]

The points have to balance, but the reservations don't reflect the original intent of the discount. It's stated in the manual that the discount is for reservations made close to checkin date.

Also, I'm well aware that credit pool points do not have arp.

Even though everyone has an equal chance, some that would have gotten a prime week will be excluded because of canceled credit pooled points rolling over into the next year.

This may be nothing but rationalization on my part but the reservations are made close to check in

The technique (or scam if you like) is a three step process.

1) cancel your reservation and as you know when you cancel the reservation becomes available to every other owner. and the guy that cancels gets his points to use again.

2) search for an available reservation. You have to do this quickly because as you know all 500000 owners may be searching for the very same reservation.

3) make a new reservation

To get the discount step 3 has to be within 60 days of check in


All three of these steps are well within the rules of the club there is nothing wrong with cancelling and rebooking except maybe (as you say) it goes against the intent of the discount program which was meant do two things, 1) keep heads in the beds, and 2) provide a benefit to help Wyndham extract more money from potential customers. OH wait ... both goals are still being achieved.


Now lets look at whether any other owners are being hurt as a result.

You make the point that certain high demand reservations would be available to you, except for the fact that certain owners (VIP) get a discount get a discount.. I would argue that thats just not the case.. Lets look at how I operate with my discount and without my discount

Ill use my favorite high demand reservations as an example. Mardi Gras (February) and the Essence Music Festival (July) There was a time before I had a VIP account that I took as many of my points as I had and at 13 months and again at 10 months made reservations for these two events. Because these were in such high demand I always had points that I didnt get placed in these reservations that I could use for some other event I didnt cancel my reservations and they were never made available to other owners (unless they rented from me)

Now flash forward a few years and a am a VIP owner. I make the Mardi gras reservations and hold them until the 60 day mark when I cancel . The points come back to my account and I can use them again,, which of course I do, except now it only takes half of them to rebook the Mardi Gras reservations I cancelled. The other half I hold to make the Essence fest reservations.

I know you will say that makes your point. I couldnt have made those Essence Fest reservations except that I had those cancelled points to use. But It doesnt make any difference, I have 30 million points, and other owners have millions and millions more. If I didnt have those cancelled points I would use other points. and If I dont make those reservations some other owner will, and if you arent quick enough 10 months in advance of your favorite reservation, you will miss out. My "VIP bonus" doesnt make life any more difficult for you than it would be otherwise

The point is that there will always be more points chasing those high demand reservations, than you would like and there will always be a scramble for them and some of us will have more points to use than others. and not everyone will get what they want

It really doesnt matter whether I cancel and rebook inside the 60 day window to generate those "extra " points. What if I just make a reservation at half price within 60 days.. I use half my credit pooled points for that reservation and have half left to add to next years points to make that high demand reservation... same thing, and my "extra" points arent hurting anyone.


Bottom line is that VIP owners get the use of more points than non VIP owners and thats by design to make things easier in the sales room.

Understand I harbor no illusions, I know how it looks and I know how it feels (thats why I became a VIP myself). and I understand the complaints.. And Im pretty sure Wyndham will change things to prevent the cancel an rebook strategy (scam) . Not because it will help you or other non VIP owners, It wont. They will do it because they need to stop the complaints. The main thing that Wyndham needs in the sales room is a happy and satisfied owner base that is eager to buy more and refer their friend to buy for the first time. .

 

[Roger830]

Ron,

I've read most of your post over the years and know that you are reasonable and fair in your approach to using the system. You are making the best use of what Wyndham has been available and promoted by the sales staff.

I am under no delusion that everyone can get what they what from the system. As you and others have stated in the past, the basic timeshare model is flawed, whether points or fixed weeks. Perhaps it's works well in a state like Hawaii that has a 12 month season, most resorts have much shorter seasons, but 52 weeks of owners.

If Wyndham wanted to correct the perceived injustice of the cancel-rebook tactic, all that they would have to do is have canceled reservations come back the next morning. If everyone has the same change of booking a prime reservation at 10 months, surely nobody could disagree that is equally fair to give everybody a shot at booking canceled reservations at 7AM.

 

[raygo123]

Injustice, or reward for purchasing developer points? It is not like we bought resale to get this benifit for a Penny on the dollar. This is part of "club Wyndham" and the benifits that go with it. I performed by buying direct points and enough to warrant the extra benifits. Everyone has the same opportunity to do the same. But oh no I'm not going to be a sucker that pays an outrageous price for points! If that's the case, your not going to get the benifits, it's that simple.

Fair, what's fair? Is it fair for resale buyers to think that they should get special treatment? Why? It's bad enough that CWA contracts benifits get passed along to resale. The only thing is that the original owner paid full price, and is entitled to some increased compensation.

why shouldn't I be treated better? Besides, cancel and rebook, and the ability to credit pool at 6 or 9 months are the few benifits we get when we pay thousands to buy into the Wyndham program that are worth something.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[CO skier]

Now lets look at whether any other owners are being hurt as a result.

Just for the sake of illustration, let us imagine there are 10 studios at Avenue Plaza for 126,000 points. You want to book five of them, and five other owners want to book one for Mardi Gras. Everybody reserves what they want.

Now let’s say that an owner ran Cancel-Rebook-Upgrade at Bonnet Creek for some New Years reservations and booked three 3 bedroom Presidentials for 270,000 points. The three units were originally booked for 1,155,000 points. Cancel-Rebook-Upgrade generated 885,000 points that this owner can now use elsewhere in the system, and why not Mardi Gras?

In a purely theoretical and extreme example to demonstrate the point let’s imagine that the Cancel-Rebook owner could reserve the maximum five studios he could afford – 630,000 points cost with 255,000 points leftover to book something else another day. Maybe you were able to reserve the other five studios, and it was the five individual owners who were eventually cut out, or maybe the remaining five units were split, with individual owners reserving three studios and you were only able to reserve two. In any case, Cancel-Rebook-Upgrade generated enough points for an owner to use, that five owners were squeezed out of what they wanted to reserve.

This is just a theoretical exercise. There are all sorts of real life red herrings that can be introduced into this example – Mardi Gras is so popular that the owner could reserve only one unit at 10 months, or other owners have millions and millions more points, or if you aren’t quick enough 10 months in advance of your favorite reservation, you will miss out, or there will always be more points chasing high demand reservations, than you would like and there will always be a scramble for them and some of us will have more points to use than others. and not everyone will get what they want.

What all this ignores, and what I think is the point that Roger830 makes is that the Cancel-Rebook and Cancel-Rebook-Upgrade scams generate millions of points that otherwise would not be in the owners account, and these points can be used to compete at any resort. If a 2 million point owner can use the scams to reserve 6.72 million points of reservations, the extra 4.72 million points are coming from somewhere, they are viable, and they unfairly increase the competition for reservations.

The owner paid maintenance fees for 2 million points. Who is paying the maintenance fees for the other 4.72 million points?


To paraphrase Everett Dirksen, “A million points here, a million points there, and pretty soon you are talking about a real scam.”

 

[outofthewoodwork]

I always saw myself as one of those well versed owners that knows the tricks and the loopholes and the problems and that has told Wyndham (either on this forum, or directly) Tthey didn't ask for my advice but I gave it to them

**********************

Years ago, when banks employed people to balance the books instead of computers, I made a $1000 deposit to my account and was credited with $10000. The first I knew of the mistake was at the end of the month when I got my statement. And the bank didn't catch it until I told them about it.

That money was not mine. I could have spent it but the bank would have caught their mistake sooner or later. And I would have to give it back or be treated as a thief.

So Wyndham has finally found some accounts that have a large number of points unsupported by large ownerships. I think they will find some that are the result of wyndham errors, either poor programming or outright mistakes. (Kinda like the mistake my bank made) In these cases Wyndham will I think, take the points back. And I think they will find some cases where the imbalance is easily explained and absolutely legitimate and the points will, in those cases, stay. At least that's what I I think now

Bottom line is that if the maintenance fees have been paid or will be paid for every point they ought to stay. And if not, not


And then once this mess is behind us, we ought to see some changes. Better computer systems, and some new rules

I am a longtime Wyndham owner (back to Fairfield) and I have been a comprehensive reader and rare poster when I felt like I had something to offer on the old Yahoo boards and TUG for years. I am not a mega renter and use my points for my own or families use most of the time. While I do not understand all the ins and outs of how mega renters operate, this topic is very interesting to me and I am going to offer my opinion.

I have no problem with mega renters using the system to it's full extent (credit pool, rolling points, cancel/rebook, etc.) In fact, I applaud them. As long as they stay with the framework of the system and use it to its full extent, more power to them! As many have said, Wyndham has sold this for many years.

However, if as some have suggested, they are "generating" points with a tactic that is not within the rules or not intended, and is creating something that they did not pay for and did not expect to get but only received due to glitch in the system that is stealing plain and simple. Call it what you want and justify it however you may, but it is still stealing. (I appreciate Ron's honesty and his bank example is a good parallel.) Anybody who knowing and willfully used a method that might do this should be held accountable for their actions. If this is the case (and I have no idea if it is or not), I hope Wyndham finds out who it is and appropriately punishes them to the highest extent of the law. If it is not the case, they should unsuspend accounts sooner rather than later and let people get back to doing what they do.

 

[Roger830]

I performed by buying direct points and enough to warrant the extra benifits.

why shouldn't I be treated better? Besides, cancel and rebook, and the ability to credit pool at 6 or 9 months are the few benifits we get when we pay thousands to buy into the Wyndham program that are worth something.

Show the page in the manual where the benefit cancel and rebook is stated.

I have the 2013-1014 manual.
Page 332 states Price discounts within 60 days of checkin
Receive discounts on NEW reservations only

I see nothing about canceling a reservation made 8 months prior and rebooking.

If the canceled reservation comes back the next day or some random day at 7AM, you would still have a better than average shot of rebooking it because you know where to look. That's fair and in the rules.

 

[raygo123]

Just for the sake of illustration, let us imagine there are 10 studios at Avenue Plaza for 126,000 points. You want to book five of them, and five other owners want to book one for Mardi Gras. Everybody reserves what they want.

Now let’s say that an owner ran Cancel-Rebook-Upgrade at Bonnet Creek for some New Years reservations and booked three 3 bedroom Presidentials for 270,000 points. The three units were originally booked for 1,155,000 points. Cancel-Rebook-Upgrade generated 885,000 points that this owner can now use elsewhere in the system, and why not Mardi Gras?

In a purely theoretical and extreme example to demonstrate the point let’s imagine that the Cancel-Rebook owner could reserve the maximum five studios he could afford – 630,000 points cost with 255,000 points leftover to book something else another day. Maybe you were able to reserve the other five studios, and it was the five individual owners who were eventually cut out, or maybe the remaining five units were split, with individual owners reserving three studios and you were only able to reserve two. In any case, Cancel-Rebook-Upgrade generated enough points for an owner to use, that five owners were squeezed out of what they wanted to reserve.

This is just a theoretical exercise. There are all sorts of real life red herrings that can be introduced into this example – Mardi Gras is so popular that the owner could reserve only one unit at 10 months, or other owners have millions and millions more points, or if you aren’t quick enough 10 months in advance of your favorite reservation, you will miss out, or there will always be more points chasing high demand reservations, than you would like and there will always be a scramble for them and some of us will have more points to use than others. and not everyone will get what they want.

What all this ignores, and what I think is the point that Roger830 makes is that the Cancel-Rebook and Cancel-Rebook-Upgrade scams generate millions of points that otherwise would not be in the owners account, and these points can be used to compete at any resort. If a 2 million point owner can use the scams to reserve 6.72 million points of reservations, the extra 4.72 million points are coming from somewhere, they are viable, and they unfairly increase the competition for reservations.

The owner paid maintenance fees for 2 million points. Who is paying the maintenance fees for the other 4.72 million points?


To paraphrase Everett Dirksen, “A million points here, a million points there, and pretty soon you are talking about a real scam.”

I'm not a mega renter, although I have rented to family at cost, and once to a tugger that needed a last minute reservation, at my discounted value, I bought, and spent my money to get this benifit, which I deserve. No, I'm not happy with mega renters with millions of points booking high demand, but like me they layed down the cash, which all owners can do. It's a pay up, or shut up senario, and Wyndham knows it. When you go to a presentation, that's basically what you are told. You need to upgrade and here is what you get. YOU choose to not take advantage of this benifit. This is all part of the incentive to get you to buy, and now I'm the the one that has to give up what I paid for? Because you think it's a scam?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[raygo123]

Show the page in the manual where the benefit cancel and rebook is stated.

I have the 2013-1014 manual.
Page 332 states Price discounts within 60 days of checkin
Receive discounts on NEW reservations only

I see nothing about canceling a reservation made 8 months prior and rebooking.

If the canceled reservation comes back the next day or some random day at 7AM, you would still have a better than average shot of rebooking it because you know where to look. That's fair and in the rules.

As I said earlier, it was tried it works and Wyndham has even incorporates it into their presentations. It is new, in that it is made under the discount window, just not the first time. By the way nice picture. Apparently when you bought, you did not do enough homework, or enough presentations to understand the full program, or you would have had knowledge of all this. If you did buy direct, the good news is it's not too late for you to enjoy the same benifits.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[bestresort]

what difference does it make if I pay my maintenance fees now or later, as long as th

what difference does it make if I pay my maintenance fees now or later, as long as they are paid.

what difference does it make if I pay my maintenance fees now or later, as long as they are paid.

because some people never pay them..you know that..,

 

[bestresort]

The problem is people that strip the contract of points , use them, then dump the contracts back to Wyndham or some other dope

Theft completed.

Book rebook is a red herring

 

[buckor]

I've been reading this train of posts since the beginning. And I do have an opinion...please remember it is just that, my opinion.

When my wife and I went to our presentation we were told about the benefits of VIP. One of those benefits was the ability to book reservations at a discount and possibly get a free upgrade, assuming there was availability during that window. No one said anything about cancel-rebook. And, the book says nothing about cancel-rebook as an option...for anyone.

I think the point many here are trying to make is that the VIP experience is SUPPOSED to be available based on available inventory in the system, not inventory created by someone cancelling a reservation to create said inventory. This goes against the very idea of allowing VIP owners access to "extra" inventory as a perk of ownership....becausr let's be honest, that's what you were sold, not cancel-rebook.

If anyone disagrees with the above please show where in your contract they offered cancel-rebook as an option. It's not there...and has been stated many times in other posts, if it's not in the contract it's not part of the deal.

The whole point is that VIPs getting the points discounts and upgrades is SUPPOSED to br from inventory not already reserved by all the other owners. While the system allows cancel-rebook no one can say that it is an intended consequence.

Someone made the point that the way the current system is run that a megarenter "generates " millions of additional points for them to use to rent other, high demand properties under the current system. These extra millions of points "generated" by cancel-rebook creates more competition for rooms...something, again, not intended but has been allowed. If VIPs were able to use their points for discounts and cancel-rebook according to the book, while inventory would not increase, demand would decrease allowing more owners to be happy with their purchases.

Many an argument has been made that people are unhappy with their Wyndham purchase because they aren't willing to understand the reservation timeline and process. Should they, then, not be told about megarenters in their presentation from Wyndham and told that if you really want a high demand week you better be on the phone at 7am at 13 months? No, people are not told this because the system was designed for VIPs to use the excess inventory, not create excess inventory.

VIPs are using the system, literally the technology, to their advantage. Kudos. It is technically legal. But then to turn around and tell someone they made a bad purchase because they are frustrated with available inventory knowing that, as a megarenter, you have booked a significant portion of the available rooms (in combination with other megarenters) Of a high demand week, is, well, a questionable practice at the least.

The whole Wyndham concept is designed around individuals enjoying vacations with their families...not setting up vacation businesses using the Wyndham resorts as the backbone.

If this is going to change Wyndham must make the change....i doubt megarenters are going To voluntarily leave inventory in place so I can book the vacation my family wants to take.

Just my $.02.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk