2015 Program Changes [merged]

[Bigrob]

That's not the way the new rule it written:

"The Nightly Unit Limit applies to new Standard and Express reservations booked after October 1, 2015 (ARP reservations are not limited)."

ARP reservation are unlimited, so the new 10 limit does not apply to them, and they do not count towards other reservations that do fall under the new rule, because they are not Standard or Express reservations.

Someone could have 60 ARP reservations and 10 cancelled-rebooked or regular reservations all for the same nights and still be in compliance with the new rule. Nothing gets cancelled, days, weeks, or months later.

How the new rule is written and how it is interpreted by whoever is responsible for cancelling out-of-compliance reservations can be debated until someone actually tries it.

I agree, we can debate what the meaning is but we won't know for certain until it's applied. However, my interpretation is the same as Adam's. You can have as many ARP reservations as you have points and ARP for; but that doesn't mean they wouldn't count as reservations and that you can have 10 additional standard/express reservations, only that you are not limited to 10 if you have enough points and ARP for more.

 

[CO skier]

I was told the 10 or more arp reservations would count as 10. Any more booked inside 10 months would be in violation.

Try calling a few more times, and you will probably get a few differing answers.

Once the new rule is in effect, cancellations will probably be a manual process. Cancellations will depend on how the someone doing the cancelling interprets the rule.

I only know what is written, and what is written says "ARP reservations are not limited". That seems very clear to me.

 

[Ty1on]

Try calling a few more times, and you will probably get a few differing answers.

Once the new rule is in effect, cancellations will probably be a manual process. Cancellations will depend on how the someone doing the cancelling interprets the rule.

I only know what is written, and what is written says "ARP reservations are not limited". That seems very clear to me.

Isn't that currently the process with overlaps?

 

[CO skier]

I agree, we can debate what the meaning is but we won't know for certain until it's applied. However, my interpretation is the same as Adam's. You can have as many ARP reservations as you have points and ARP for; but that doesn't mean they wouldn't count as reservations and that you can have 10 additional standard/express reservations, only that you are not limited to 10 if you have enough points and ARP for more.

Not to belabor the point, but where does the new rule state, the "Nightly Use Limit applies to, or even includes, ARP reservations" in any way?

 

[Ty1on]

You are correct of course, but it completely missed the point that Advance Reservation Priority (ARP) is an administrative rule, not a deeded right.

If Wyndham has the option to limit reservations to 10 in the Standard or Express reservations, they could do the same for ARP reservations. There is no deeded right protecting this. If the objective of the new administrative rule is to somehow increase availability, exempting ARP reservations from the 10 unit/20% rule runs completely contrary to this goal.

I'm not sure about that. It seems to me, if you own deeded points at home resorts, you own the right to first come first serve ARP reservations, no matter how many points you own. I think this may be why they make the distinction. If you paid for a million points, retail or resale, you should be able to book those rooms all at once if you want. Once ARP has passed, you have forfeited your exclusive rights to those reservations IMO.

I do still think this is all about thwarting the cancel/rebook game, not disabling the megapoints holders.

 

[CO skier]

Isn't that currently the process with overlaps?

Only within 15 days of arrival. The new rule does not change this. As written (and it is beginning to seem no one knows what is written really means), someone could have 60 ARP reservations and 10 Standard or Express reservations up until 15 days, just like today.

 

[CO skier]

I'm not sure about that. It seems to me, if you own deeded points at home resorts, you own the right to first come first serve ARP reservations, no matter how many points you own. I think this may be why they make the distinction. If you paid for a million points, retail or resale, you should be able to book those rooms all at once if you want. Once ARP has passed, you have forfeited your exclusive rights to those reservations IMO.

What you say is true. Under the new rule only a maximum of 10 of the ARP reservations may now be converted to Standard, Express, or VIP discount reservations for the same nights, instead of all of them. The remaining ARP reservations must stay as ARP reservations or be cancelled.

 

[Ty1on]

Only within 15 days of arrival. The new rule does not change this. As written (and it is beginning to seem no one knows what is written really means), someone could have 60 ARP reservations and 10 Standard or Express reservations up until 15 days, just like today.

I'm sure that they will soon issue formal policies that remove the vagueness of their email blast. I hope?

 

[Bigrob]

Not to belabor the point, but where does the new rule state, the "Nightly Use Limit applies to, or even includes, ARP reservations" in any way?

To quote the entire paragraph from the email:

"In an effort to increase availability, there will be a Nightly Unit Limit on the number of units an owner can book at a single resort of 10 units, or 20 percent of the inventory at that resort affiliated with CLUB WYNDHAM Plus, whichever is less. Going forward, the Nightly Unit Limit should increase availability for more owners at the most sought after resorts. The Nightly Unit Limit applies to new Standard and Express reservations booked after October 1, 2015 (ARP reservations are not limited). This will not impact existing reservations made prior to October 1, unless the reservation is cancelled and, after October 1, a new reservation is confirmed."

There is no question that ARP reservations are not limited. What is in question is whether they "count" against the reservation limit. The number of units an owner can book is limited to 10 units or 20%. If you already have 20 or 60 units reserved from ARP, where are you reading that you can have 10 additional reservations booked during the standard reservation window? It doesn't say they don't count, just that you aren't limited to 10 ARP reservations.

I'd like to think you're right. But I suspect you are not. I do agree with you that it is quite likely you could get a different answer from each VC you ask.

 

[Bigrob]

I'm sure that they will soon issue formal policies that remove the vagueness of their email blast. I hope?

I'm pretty sure that will not happen. The wording may be deliberately vague and ambiguous as they may be leaving some room to "adjust" if the results they want are not achieved. I asked about whether they were going to be issuing FAQ's and the answer was... probably not, because the vast majority of owners would simply be confused by the type of clarification and nuance being discussed here. Let's face it... the typical owner is not concerned with whether they can make 10 standard reservations for the same timeframe as their 20 existing ARP reservations.

My guess is that for a large percentage of owners, the reaction is... "Hey, cool... no more cancelled points! And maybe we'll see availability we didn't before!" and be done with it.

 

[CO skier]

There is no question that ARP reservations are not limited. What is in question is whether they "count" against the reservation limit. The number of units an owner can book is limited to 10 units or 20%. If you already have 20 or 60 units reserved from ARP, where are you reading that you can have 10 additional reservations booked during the standard reservation window? It doesn't say they don't count, just that you aren't limited to 10 ARP reservations.

"The Nightly Unit Limit applies to new Standard and Express reservations booked after October 1, 2015"

It is clearly stated that the 10 unit/20% rule applies only to Standard and Express reservations.

So why would ARP reservations, which are not Standard or Express reservations, count towards the Nightly Use Limit?

 

[CO skier]

I think that ARP reservations should apply to the Nightly Use Limit, and that may be the intent, but that is not how the new rule is worded in the email in the original post.

 

[am1]

I think that ARP reservations should apply to the Nightly Use Limit, and that may be the intent, but that is not how the new rule is worded in the email in the original post.

That is why I asked and reported what I was told.

 

[Bigrob]

"The Nightly Unit Limit applies to new Standard and Express reservations booked after October 1, 2015"

It is clearly stated that the 10 unit/20% rule applies only to Standard and Express reservations.

So why would ARP reservations, which are not Standard or Express reservations, count towards the Nightly Use Limit?

Asked and answered. The language neither expressly states that the ARP reservations would count against the limit, or that they would not. You interpret, because the ARP reservations are not limited to 10 and are not standard or express reservations, that they don't count against your total allotment of 10 units or 20%. I interpret, because there is a limit of 10 units or 20% excepting in the case of ARP reservations which are not limited, that there is nothing here to assure that you can make 10 additional reservations for the same time frame at the same resort in the standard and express reservation window because you haven't made any standard or express reservations, only ARP reservations. They are still reservations at the resort at the same time as the reservation you are trying to add... which would be the 21st, or 61st, or even the 11th reservation being made for the same time at the same resort and it would be a reservation that is being made in the standard or express reservation window. It therefore qualifies as a reservation that would be automatically cancelled.

It has been my experience that if something is not clear, the common sense and more restrictive interpretation is generally correct, as applied by Wyndham. But I'm all for someone experimenting and would be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[ronparise]

What you say is true. Under the new rule only a maximum of 10 of the ARP reservations may now be converted to Standard, Express, or VIP discount reservations for the same nights, instead of all of them. The remaining ARP reservations must stay as ARP reservations or be cancelled.

I think this is exactly right, unless of course someone has more than one Platinum account

 

[uscav8r]

I think this is exactly right, unless of course someone has more than one Platinum account

Who in their right mind would do such a thing?


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[ronparise]

Who in their right mind would do such a thing?


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I sure wouldnt know

 

[CO skier]

I think this is exactly right, unless of course someone has more than one Platinum account

The bots, if they exist, would never allow it.

 

[traveldaddy]

Need advice re: new wyndham cancellation policy

I hope everyone is aware of the new Wyndham policy re: cancelled points return to regular use points. Of course, I still have not received the e-mail from Wyndham (and yes, I checked my spam filter btw).

So, I am one of those folks that has multiple use years in my account, and I was going to try to roll forward some points to manage what I wanted. Most of my points are Jan use year start, but one contract is April use year. I had points from the April 1/15 to March 30/16 that I used to book a Crestview 2Bd for Feb 12-15, 2016 (I think this is Presidents day in US, but Family day weekend for some Canucks for sure). I don't think we can use that week.

The original plan was to wait until early Jan/16 and cancel, hoping the points would drop into Jan use year and I would have until Dec to use - which would not be a problem. However, with the new policy, if I wait to cancel, it will go back into the original use year, and I don't have time and/or there is very little available where we want to go since I will have to use the points by March 30. I already have another Xmas and a March break vacation scheduled (who da thunk I would be complaining about too many vacays?!? )

Any suggestions on how to avoid losing the points? I don't have the new policy in writing, so I am a little uncertain as to how it works (I think like everyone else). It is 107K points, which for me is pretty significant. I could just rent the weekend, as it is pretty high demand, but I am not a "renter" - I have done it a total of once, so I get the process and am capable, but it has a high PITA factor and is not my first choice as a solution. I can't credit pool now, as it is too late. What else can I do with the new policy? When do I have to do it? (i.e. pre Aug 3rd or post?)

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Craig

P.S. If I figure something out, and plan on canceling, I will post separately to coordinate in case someone on TUG wants the reservation. I did this before with a high demand reservation and the TUGer was appreciative. Trying to Pay it forward.

 

[CO skier]

I hope everyone is aware of the new Wyndham policy re: cancelled points return to regular use points. Of course, I still have not received the e-mail from Wyndham (and yes, I checked my spam filter btw).

So, I am one of those folks that has multiple use years in my account, and I was going to try to roll forward some points to manage what I wanted. Most of my points are Jan use year start, but one contract is April use year. I had points from the April 1/15 to March 30/16 that I used to book a Crestview 2Bd for Feb 12-15, 2016 (I think this is Presidents day in US, but Family day weekend for some Canucks for sure). I don't think we can use that week.

The original plan was to wait until early Jan/16 and cancel, hoping the points would drop into Jan use year and I would have until Dec to use - which would not be a problem. However, with the new policy, if I wait to cancel, it will go back into the original use year, and I don't have time and/or there is very little available where we want to go since I will have to use the points by March 30. I already have another Xmas and a March break vacation scheduled (who da thunk I would be complaining about too many vacays?!? )

Any suggestions on how to avoid losing the points? I don't have the new policy in writing, so I am a little uncertain as to how it works (I think like everyone else). It is 107K points, which for me is pretty significant. I could just rent the weekend, as it is pretty high demand, but I am not a "renter" - I have done it a total of once, so I get the process and am capable, but it has a high PITA factor and is not my first choice as a solution. I can't credit pool now, as it is too late. What else can I do with the new policy? When do I have to do it? (i.e. pre Aug 3rd or post?)

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Craig

P.S. If I figure something out, and plan on canceling, I will post separately to coordinate in case someone on TUG wants the reservation. I did this before with a high demand reservation and the TUGer was appreciative. Trying to Pay it forward.

I do not have multiple use years, but as I understand the process, why would you have to wait until Jan 2016 to cancel the reservation?

If you cancel the reservation today or before August 2nd (just to be safe), wouldn't the cancelled points for a 2016 reservation appear in your Jan - Dec 2016 Use Year no matter which use year the points originated (isn't that the whole idea of rolling points forward)? Then the cancelled points become Regular 2016 Use Year Points not associated with any particular contract after the change on August 4, and they then expire Dec, 2016?

 

[Ty1on]

I do not have multiple use years, but as I understand the process, why would you have to wait until Jan 2016 to cancel the reservation?

If you cancel the reservation today or before August 2nd (just to be safe), wouldn't the cancelled points for a 2016 reservation appear in your Jan - Dec 2016 Use Year no matter which use year the points originated (isn't that the whole idea of rolling points forward)? Then the cancelled points become Regular 2016 Use Year Points not associated with any particular contract after the change on August 4, and they then expire Dec, 2016?

Give it a shot and let everyone know

 

[CO skier]

Am I the only one who does not particularly like having a minion stuck to the bottom of my shoe?

 

[traveldaddy]

I do not have multiple use years, but as I understand the process, why would you have to wait until Jan 2016 to cancel the reservation?

If you cancel the reservation today or before August 2nd (just to be safe), wouldn't the cancelled points for a 2016 reservation appear in your Jan - Dec 2016 Use Year no matter which use year the points originated (isn't that the whole idea of rolling points forward)? Then the cancelled points become Regular 2016 Use Year Points not associated with any particular contract after the change on August 4, and they then expire Dec, 2016?

I am still a newbie. I understood I had to wait until the Jan 2016 use year started, or they would fall into the April 1/15 to March/16 use year (which does not roll them forward, as that is where they came from). I certainly may be mistaken, as I have never done it before.

Down to my last free RT for this year and I need to book something in Sept at the 10 month mark for next summer, so if I muck it up, it will cost me in buying another RT if I have to try to rebook another reservation. So want to be sure I get it right - at least as sure as I can be. System is kinda complicated and with the rule changes, well, it is even more so.

 

[Bigrob]

I am still a newbie. I understood I had to wait until the Jan 2016 use year started, or they would fall into the April 1/15 to March/16 use year (which does not roll them forward, as that is where they came from). I certainly may be mistaken, as I have never done it before.

Down to my last free RT for this year and I need to book something in Sept at the 10 month mark for next summer, so if I muck it up, it will cost me in buying another RT if I have to try to rebook another reservation. So want to be sure I get it right - at least as sure as I can be. System is kinda complicated and with the rule changes, well, it is even more so.

The way it has "usually" worked for me is that when I cancel a reservation, the points return to the use year with the latest expiration. But it doesn't always work that way... sometimes the points are returned to an earlier use year IF the later use year has no points remaining, BUT the earlier use year does. (If none of them have points they go to the latest use year again).

My guess is that would not apply in your case - you probably have points remaining in your jan-dec 2016 use year, but perhaps not in your apr-mar 2016 use year. If that's the case you should be fine, the points should become cancelled points in the Jan-Dec 2016 use year. If you cancel before the cutover, they should become regular use points without an associated contract.

My guess is, there will be a degree of flexibility on a one-time basis if they don't go where you want them to.

 

[traveldaddy]

The way it has "usually" worked for me is that when I cancel a reservation, the points return to the use year with the latest expiration. But it doesn't always work that way... sometimes the points are returned to an earlier use year IF the later use year has no points remaining, BUT the earlier use year does. (If none of them have points they go to the latest use year again).

My guess is that would not apply in your case - you probably have points remaining in your jan-dec 2016 use year, but perhaps not in your apr-mar 2016 use year. If that's the case you should be fine, the points should become cancelled points in the Jan-Dec 2016 use year. If you cancel before the cutover, they should become regular use points without an associated contract.

My guess is, there will be a degree of flexibility on a one-time basis if they don't go where you want them to.

Okay, I think I understand. Basically, do it before the deadline and I 'should' get the points into the Jan 2016 use year like I want, but some risk it falls into Apr-Mar/16 use year.

Backup would be to wait and book something if I can find it.

Then last resort is to push into RCI? or would I have to book something after the deadline, then cancel it so it becomes 'regular' points and then put those in RCI?

Last question, what is the TUG etiquette for canceling a high demand reservation? new post and first person to PM, arrange a time? did this before, but not sure what the standard is.

Thanks for the help, it is greatly appreciated.

Bigrob - you are correct. Checked my point status and I have Jan2016 use year points, Apr/16-Mar/17 points, but nothing for Apr/15-Mar/16. So it seems like it should work based on your response.