2015 Program Changes [merged]

[antjmar]

The original plan was to wait until early Jan/16 and cancel, hoping the points would drop into Jan use year and I would have until Dec to use - which would not be a problem. However, with the new policy, if I wait to cancel, it will go back into the original use year, and I don't have time and/or there is very little available where we want to go since I will have to use the points by March 30. I already have another Xmas and a March break vacation scheduled (who da thunk I would be complaining about too many vacays?!? )

Any suggestions on how to avoid losing the points? I don't have the new policy in writing, so I am a little uncertain as to how it works (I think like everyone else). It is 107K points, which for me is pretty significant. I could just rent the weekend, as it is pretty high demand, but I am not a "renter" - I have done it a total of once, so I get the process and am capable, but it has a high PITA factor and is not my first choice as a solution. I can't credit pool now, as it is too late. What else can I do with the new policy? When do I have to do it? (i.e. pre Aug 3rd or post?)

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Craig

I would wait till Jan try to cancel see what happens. If it doesn't go the way you'd like call and ask to get the contracts realigned.
It appears that the trick is gone so no need to have 2 use years...if all your points are 12/31 use year you'll have all year to use them.

 

[traveldaddy]

Okay, the newbie is officially back in a confused state as to what to do......

 

[CO skier]

I would wait till Jan try to cancel see what happens.

Do not wait until January, or the cancelled points will definitely revert to your March 30, 2016 Use Year End Date. You need to decide what to do by August 2nd.


ETA: And DEFINITELY do not call to have your contract aligned, unless you are absolutely certain that is what you want to do.

 

[antjmar]

Do not wait until January, or the cancelled points will definitely revert to your March 30, 2016 Use Year End Date. You need to decide what to do by August 2nd.

No one can be sure where the points will go, The use trick may still work...
and Wyndham will still adjust use year to 12/31 if requested.

 

[Ty1on]

Am I the only one who does not particularly like having a minion stuck to the bottom of my shoe?

Meaning???

 

[antjmar]

ETA: And DEFINITELY do not call to have your contract aligned, unless you are absolutely certain that is what you want to do.

Why?

you seem to think the use trick is gone...

 

[CO skier]

Okay, the newbie is officially back in a confused state as to what to do......

If all your April, 2015 - March 30, 2016 points are gone, cancel your Feb. 2016 reservation now. Cancellations do not cost a RT. The cancelled points should appear in your Jan. - Dec. 2016 Use Year as cancelled points. If they do, you all set for a Dec. 2016 expiration date even after the changes on August 4th. Use your new RT after Jan. 1, 2016 to put the cancelled points into new reservations.

If the cancelled points return to your Apr. - Mar, 2016 Use Year, repost here and you are sure to receive many suggestions on how to call in to correct the mistake.

 

[CO skier]

Why?

you seem to think the use trick is gone...

Some people like having overlapping Use Years for reasons that are unrelated to rolling points forward or the new rule.

 

[antjmar]

Some people like having overlapping Use Years for reasons that are unrelated to rolling points forward or the new rule.

OK thanks.

 

[CO skier]

OK thanks.

Sure, no problem.

Just one example is July 1 Use Years that overlap the usual Jan. 1 Use Years.

This spreads a portion of the total points over 18 months instead of all-in-12 months, and it still allows all the points to be used together for summer or end-of-year holidays.

 

[Vacationfuntips]

Sure, no problem.

Just one example is July 1 Use Years that overlap the usual Jan. 1 Use Years.

This spreads a portion of the total points over 18 months instead of all-in-12 months, and it still allows all the points to be used together for summer or end-of-year holidays.

I used to have the July and January use years. It was the greatest - I always had points, and canceled reservations rolled forward...This was until Wyndham realigned my contracts to make them all January use years. This happened when I added another contract to my account. Anyone who adds on, should realize that this could happen to them.

Things are always changing with Wyndham!

I am so curious to know (with the new rule) if the canceled points that I borrowed will move back to the 2016 use year or stay in 2015 when I cancel my reservation? These points were canceled and re-booked points... Guess I am going to find out very soon? I will post how it turns out.

Cynthia T.

 

[Bigrob]

I used to have the July and January use years. It was the greatest - I always had points, and canceled reservations rolled forward...This was until Wyndham realigned my contracts to make them all January use years. This happened when I added another contract to my account. Anyone who adds on, should realize that this could happen to them.

Things are always changing with Wyndham!

I am so curious to know (with the new rule) if the canceled points that I borrowed will move back to the 2016 use year or stay in 2015 when I cancel my reservation? These points were canceled and re-booked points... Guess I am going to find out very soon? I will post how it turns out.

Cynthia T.

If they are canceled and rebooked points sitting in a reservation, they don't have a contract to go back to at this point, so they will likely go back as regular use year points in the year of the reservation you've made. If they are sitting as canceled points already, they should become regular points in the use year they are currently sitting as cancelled points in.

This is going to be interesting. I can envision scenarios where there is no way to identify what points were used for existing reservations and after Aug 3rd, if those reservations are cancelled the points will be returned as points associated to the "predominant contract" in the use year of the reservation. That could be a problem for pre-existing reservations made with 2016 cancelled points.

Thinking about this, all the points sitting in current reservations through the end of this year; when those reservations are cancelled, those points will come back as regular points in the use year of the predominant contract, which for most will be 2015 points with an expiration in December. That may lead to (in the case of platinum owners) multiple credit pool fees; and in the case of all owners, many more points being deposited to RCI than usual.

In case you are wondering which is the predominant contract; I believe that when an account is first set up, it is set up as the use year of the contract that first goes in. So at the account level there is a use-year indicator (I don't believe there's anyplace for us to see this directly). The predominant contract is the largest point contract with that use year. Given that, I can see a flurry of activity to try to shape it that the predominant contract is identified as one where ARP is valuable. If what I was told is true, all of the points that don't currently have contract identifiers will be reset to the predominant contract. So if one were to happen to have an LBM April use year as a predominant contract, and one were to happen to have 10s of millions of unassociated points tied up in the right reservations; then when those reservations are cancelled, the unassociated points should become regular use year points in the April 2016-Mar 2017 use year associated to the LBM contract. Hypothetically enabling one to use millions of points for ARP reservations for Mardi Gras in 2017. And of course there are no limits to ARP reservations.

Not sure this is going to INCREASE availability for high demand resorts after all...

 

[ronparise]

so Eric
you have lost me completely


I know when I make a reservation the points are taken from a certain contract. Are you saying that under the new policy, if I cancel that reservation the cancelled points (now regular use year points, stay associated with that same contract?

and if that contract has been sold, the "cancelled" points because they no longer can be associated with the original contract (because its been sold) will now be associated with something you are calling the "predominant contract"

and the predominant contract is the oldest one in the account... and can then be used for ARP

Is this all guesswork on your part or is this what you were told when you made that call?


My concern has been that the points from a cancelled reservation would follow the contract. So in the case of a sale, the cancelled points would go to the new owner. Is that even a remote possibility?


and to your point "Not sure this is going to INCREASE availability for high demand resorts after all". Im sure its not going to increase availability. Continuing with your La Bell Maison example; there are only 140 units in that building, and for Mardi Gras they are currently all gone in the first few minutes at 13 months. It doesnt matter whether 7 owners get 20 each or 14 owners get 5 each and 70 owners get 1 each or whatever combination you come up with... At 8:15 13 months ahead of the friday before mardi gras tuesday they will all be gone, and the other 500000 club wyndham owners will be shut out

 

[vacationhopeful]

My largest contract is RV .... ha, ha, ha .... for my use year. I could have a very good Xmas and NYE rental crop.

Planning is oh so important with Wyndham. Must get busy.

 

[Bigrob]

so Eric
you have lost me completely


I know when I make a reservation the points are taken from a certain contract. Are you saying that under the new policy, if I cancel that reservation the cancelled points (now regular use year points, stay associated with that same contract?

Yes, that is what I was told. For a reservation made from regular use year points that are associated to a contract after August 4th; the points will go back to the contract. If they were in a credit pool, they will go back to the same credit pool. If the contract was transferred out before the reservation was cancelled, the points stay in your account (do NOT transfer to buyer after the fact) and because that contract is no longer in your account, but the point have to be associated to a contract after August 4th, they will be associated to the "predominant" contract. Also, what I was told is that the predominant contract is the largest contract of the same use year as the account. However, I believe this is just what the VC's were told, and we won't know for a fact that's how it works until it's rolled out, because the IT guys in India that coded it might not have got all the nuances of the business rules.

and if that contract has been sold, the "cancelled" points because they no longer can be associated with the original contract (because its been sold) will now be associated with something you are calling the "predominant contract"

and the predominant contract is the oldest one in the account... and can then be used for ARP

Is this all guesswork on your part or is this what you were told when you made that call?

All of this is what I was told when I called, and I do think I had an experienced and well-informed VC. I may call in today to see if they can tell me what the predominant contract is in my account. The only part that was not specifically stated is whether it's purely the largest contract, or the largest contract of the same use year as the account. (Note, it is the largest, not the oldest; the oldest is what determined the use year of the account to begin with, but according to the VC, that is not what determines the predominant contract.)

My concern has been that the points from a cancelled reservation would follow the contract. So in the case of a sale, the cancelled points would go to the new owner. Is that even a remote possibility?

I guess this depends on how the system was programmed. If the first factor in returning points is the associated CONTRACT number, then it may be a possibility (and likely a nightmare for some of us). If the first factor in returning points is the originating MEMBER number, then it should not occur. But given some of the other mysterious activities that take place within the system, I wouldn't rule it out completely as a possible "gotcha". What I was told is that the points would be returned to the same account and re-associated to the predominant contract. But you can bet I'll be watching it closely post transition.

and to your point "Not sure this is going to INCREASE availability for high demand resorts after all". Im sure its not going to increase availability. Continuing with your La Bell Maison example; there are only 140 units in that building, and for Mardi Gras they are currently all gone in the first few minutes at 13 months. It doesnt matter whether 7 owners get 20 each or 14 owners get 5 each and 70 owners get 1 each or whatever combination you come up with... At 8:15 13 months ahead of the friday before mardi gras tuesday they will all be gone, and the other 500000 club wyndham owners will be shut out

Correct. But to VacationHopeful's point, she might end up with a 1-year window of additional ARP at Royal Vista for high-demand reservations; others may end up with a 1-year increase for high-demand reservations at other resorts, and all with ARP that is not subject to the new limits. This may make a difference at locations that have not traditionally been completely sold out during the ARP period.

 

[CO skier]

This is going to be interesting. I can envision scenarios where there is no way to identify what points were used for existing reservations and after Aug 3rd, if those reservations are cancelled the points will be returned as points associated to the "predominant contract" in the use year of the reservation. That could be a problem for pre-existing reservations made with 2016 cancelled points.

Another option would be that the "blank" contract line in an account replaces the "Cancelled Points" line after August 4th, and any cancelled points going forward that do not have an associated contract are consolidated in the "blank" contract.

That would be the simplest solution and not create any "false ARP", but that probably does not mean much with Wyndham.

So, I did call in to check on this, and got some interesting clarifications:

1. There is an "transition period" that will occur between Aug 3/4 - where all of your current cancelled points will become regular use year points. These points will NOT be associated to a contract... the contract line will be "blank".

 

[Vacationfuntips]

Thanks Eric, What I am hoping for and what will happen is still unknown to me? I am not expecting my points to go back to 2016 as regular use year points, but I will "test" the system. I think my points will remain in 2015. With the changes coming, I don't think borrowing points for other than Express reservations will work?

When I purchased my 1st Wyndham points contract it was a June/July use year. My last Wyndham purchase, was a smaller points contract that Wyndham used to change all of my contracts use years to Dec/Jan.

I am okay with it, and have adjusted my vacation planning - but I never requested Wyndham to do this or to realign everything because of it.

Changes are always about "improving" the Club Wyndham product and experience. Let's see how the new changes turn out?

Cynthia T.

 

[Bigrob]

Thanks Eric, What I am hoping for and what will happen is still unknown to me? I am not expecting my points to go back to 2016 as regular use year points, but I will "test" the system. I think my points will remain in 2015. With the changes coming, I don't think borrowing points for other than Express reservations will work?

When I purchased my 1st Wyndham points contract it was a June/July use year. My last Wyndham purchase, was a smaller points contract that Wyndham used to change all of my contracts use years to Dec/Jan.

I am okay with it, and have adjusted my vacation planning - but I never requested Wyndham to do this or to realign everything because of it.

Changes are always about "improving" the Club Wyndham product and experience. Let's see how the new changes turn out?

Cynthia T.

You're right that you'll lose the ability to borrow for other than Express reservations. But the plus is that you won't lose the longer access to credit pooled points if you use them for a reservation that you cancel... points you credit pool after Aug 3rd, would be points that will have a shelf life of 3 years, regardless of how many times you book and cancel reservations with them.

 

[antjmar]

But the plus is that you won't lose the longer access to credit pooled points if you use them for a reservation that you cancel... points you credit pool after Aug 3rd, would be points that will have a shelf life of 3 years, regardless of how many times you book and cancel reservations with them.

Wow that is great, I never thought of that!:whoopie:

 

[am1]

You're right that you'll lose the ability to borrow for other than Express reservations. But the plus is that you won't lose the longer access to credit pooled points if you use them for a reservation that you cancel... points you credit pool after Aug 3rd, would be points that will have a shelf life of 3 years, regardless of how many times you book and cancel reservations with them.

I will have to try to keep track of which points were used for which reservation. Cancel the reservations that expire the furthest out first.

 

[Bigrob]

I will have to try to keep track of which points were used for which reservation. Cancel the reservations that expire the furthest out first.

You shouldn't have to do this long. The way it was explained to me was that once the cutover is complete, the system will automatically make reservations with the points that would expire first for the given time period. So the only thing you might want/need to do is call in to restack some of the points when you make the reservation, if you want to make a reservation for late in a certain contract's use year that still has points, and you'd rather save those points for a reservation you'd make earlier in the use year.

I know it sounds complicated, but I think in practice it won't be too bad... just have to think about the reservations you're making a long ways out, and make sure you're pulling the points you want to for those. For example, for me I'll want to use July and October use year points for Christmas reservations. If I still have some regular Jan use year points when I make those reservations, I'll have to call in at the end of the day and restack them, to make sure I'm not holding onto Christmas reservations with points that will expire with little time to use them (and too late in the use year to credit pool them.)

The other approach would be to scrap the rest of the year, cancel everything you're not using that's unsold, and make a bunch of reservations in 2016. As a Platinum Owner with a January use year, you have until September 30th to credit pool. So you have time for Thanksgiving but not for Christmas, to cancel, see where the points land, and if in 2015, credit pool them. After this year, however, unless you need ARP, just credit pool everything and forget it.

 

[am1]

I may take a knee on Monday or scramble. We will see.

You shouldn't have to do this long. The way it was explained to me was that once the cutover is complete, the system will automatically make reservations with the points that would expire first for the given time period. So the only thing you might want/need to do is call in to restack some of the points when you make the reservation, if you want to make a reservation for late in a certain contract's use year that still has points, and you'd rather save those points for a reservation you'd make earlier in the use year.

I know it sounds complicated, but I think in practice it won't be too bad... just have to think about the reservations you're making a long ways out, and make sure you're pulling the points you want to for those. For example, for me I'll want to use July and October use year points for Christmas reservations. If I still have some regular Jan use year points when I make those reservations, I'll have to call in at the end of the day and restack them, to make sure I'm not holding onto Christmas reservations with points that will expire with little time to use them (and too late in the use year to credit pool them.)

The other approach would be to scrap the rest of the year, cancel everything you're not using that's unsold, and make a bunch of reservations in 2016. As a Platinum Owner with a January use year, you have until September 30th to credit pool. So you have time for Thanksgiving but not for Christmas, to cancel, see where the points land, and if in 2015, credit pool them. After this year, however, unless you need ARP, just credit pool everything and forget it.

 

[Ron2]

Yes, that is what I was told. For a reservation made from regular use year points that are associated to a contract after August 4th; the points will go back to the contract. If they were in a credit pool, they will go back to the same credit pool. If the contract was transferred out before the reservation was cancelled, the points stay in your account (do NOT transfer to buyer after the fact) and because that contract is no longer in your account, but the point have to be associated to a contract after August 4th, they will be associated to the "predominant" contract. Also, what I was told is that the predominant contract is the largest contract of the same use year as the account. However, I believe this is just what the VC's were told, and we won't know for a fact that's how it works until it's rolled out, because the IT guys in India that coded it might not have got all the nuances of the business rules.

When I called Owner Care, I was told that cancellations would become regular points but they would lose their ARP and would not be associated with their original contract. There was no mention of a "predominant" contract. Apparently its all just speculation as to how this will work, even with the Wyndham specialists.

 

[traveldaddy]

That is what I was wondering. From the posts here (I still have not received the email!) I did not see it state that the regular points have ARP, just that they are returned to the same use year. Was that assumed somewhere in the chain of thread or in the original email from Wyndham?

I can see once they do this rollout, that benefits will change. I am thinking if they can trace points to the contract level, them VIP discounts or late credit pooling could be in the firing line for resale points. Not sure what they will do to us lowly non-VIP resale owners.

Just speculation of course.

 

[Bigrob]

When I called Owner Care, I was told that cancellations would become regular points but they would lose their ARP and would not be associated with their original contract. There was no mention of a "predominant" contract. Apparently its all just speculation as to how this will work, even with the Wyndham specialists.

It doesn't surprise me that there are different answers coming out from Wyndham. I will say that the person I spoke with seemed quite knowledgeable and is also a Wyndham Owner herself, so may have done some fact-checking for personal reasons as well. But she can't really "know" positively because to Ron P.'s point, it doesn't really matter how anyone thinks it should work, or even spec'd it to work - it only matters what the folks coding it did with the code. All the more reason, I think, to get a good snapshot before the changeover.

EDIT TO ADD: The more I think about it, the more likely I think it is that the interpretation your OC rep provided might be the correct one. Functionally, I don't think they would want points to go back to a predominant contract with good ARP. I'm thinking of a location like Bonnet Creek, where there are many times ARP would come in handy; as long as you were not using the ARP to try to secure more than 10 units, you could use the ARP to secure key units, cancel them at the 10 month mark and rebook same day (with other points before the points restack overnight as BC ARP points, or from another account) and then have ARP to use again. You could use the ARP 4 times a year that way. Nonetheless, I'm not discounting that it COULD work that way...

I could see it getting confusing to have a new category of points... regular use year points with no ARP... mixed in with regular use year points that DO have ARP. I suppose it would be somewhat like regular use year points from converted fixed week contracts.