You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

[easyrider]

Washington State EV rebate is done for 2024. That was fast. There is still a $7500 tax credit for the EV Equinox. Supposedly the dealer can take the credit to reduce the cost but you still have to report it on your taxes which seems like a possible red flag.The sales tax exemption is only for the first $16,000 so there is some sales tax that is paid, maybe half. The Costco $1000 discount may work but I'm skeptical.

Bill

Washington EV Instant Rebate Program

www.commerce.wa.gov

October 19 update:

Due to the program’s popularity and extremely high participation, available funding for the Washington Electric Vehicle Instant Rebates program is expected to run out within the next several days.

As of 3:30 p.m. PT October 19, there are $1,482,000 of program incentives remaining. An announcement will be made on this website when all incentives are claimed, after which instant rebates will no longer be available.

Washington Electric Vehicle Instant Rebates are funded through the state budget. The Washington State Department of Commerce has requested additional funding to continue the program in the second half of 2025, when the next state budget cycle begins. You can read more information on the Washington State Department of Commerce website.

Limited-Time Special

Costco members get an exclusive $1,000 member-only incentive on the purchase or lease of select, new 2023 and 2024 Chevrolet and Cadillac models, plus available incentives for which you qualify.

www.costcoauto.com

 

[davidvel]

Same as you, but unlike you, at least I watched part of the video before spouting off some self indulgent non-factual bs which you often do.

Bill

I didn't watch a minute. But I read the entire transcript, including the citations. You must not have watched the part that completely refutes the tin foil claims in your post, through the use of research and facts.

 

[easyrider]

I didn't watch a minute. But I read the entire transcript, including the citations. You must not have watched the part that completely refutes the tin foil claims in your post, through the use of research and facts.

I decided that there must be something off with you Dave. I hope you are able to turn it back on whatever it is.


Bill

 

[HitchHiker71]

This will probably seem odd coming from me but I'm looking at the Chevy Equinox EV with a 319 mile range. What makes this seem less odd is I'm looking at this because Washington State has a $9000 EV rebate and tax credits. These look like they cost about $40,000 or less with sales tax. Then there is the Federal tax credit of $7500. That's about $16,500 worth of incentives. So the Equinox EV would cost about $24,000 ?

Somehow I think I'm missing something because it seems too good a deal. I'm guessing that ev's in Washington are exempt from sales tax making the EV cost about $20,000 ? This just doesn't seem right.

Bill

That’s right, many of the west coast states have a lot of incentives. Keep in mind the $7500 federal tax credit is likely not to survive once the new administration comes into play. Many are accelerating their EV purchase timelines or seriously considering doing so for this reason alone (us included).

Here’s links to two long form reviews of the Equinox EV from Out of Spec - these guys are EV experts and give fair reviews across the board. The second review is a real world road test from 100% to dead on the side of the road at 70mph constant speed basically:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[easyrider]

That’s right, many of the west coast states have a lot of incentives. Keep in mind the $7500 federal tax credit is likely not to survive once the new administration comes into play. Many are accelerating their EV purchase timelines or seriously considering doing so for this reason alone (us included).

Here’s links to two long form reviews of the Equinox EV from Out of Spec - these guys are EV experts and give fair reviews across the board. The second review is a real world road test from 100% to dead on the side of the road at 70mph constant speed basically:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would want to wait until Washington State decides the 2025 budget to see if the $9000 rebate is still in play. With the options I want, the Equinox cost is about $42,000. The sales tax would be about $2340. So the total cost would be about $26,500 with the WA rebate or $35,500 without. My thought is $35,500 would be better spent on a larger vehicle.

Bill

 

[HitchHiker71]

I would want to wait until Washington State decides the 2025 budget to see if the $9000 rebate is still in play. With the options I want, the Equinox cost is about $42,000. The sales tax would be about $2340. So the total cost would be about $26,500 with the WA rebate or $35,500 without. My thought is $35,500 would be better spent on a larger vehicle.

Bill

When does your state make that decision? Like will it be 1/1/2025? Or whenever the legislative body addresses it sometime early next year? I mean even if the federal tax credits are legislated out of existence, that's going to take a bit of time to actually transpire - so you may have a window of time when the new WA state budgets are refreshed and available and the federal tax credits are still available. The POS (point of sale) $7500 tax credit availability at time of purchase is legit - you simply then have to claim it on your taxes when you file the following year is all - this change was made earlier this year to allow buyers the ability to realize the savings right away - as opposed to not getting the tax credit back until filing time the following year.

 

[Chrispee]

Never in a million years would I have predicted that this thread would end with @easyrider purchasing an EV

 

[easyrider]

When does your state make that decision? Like will it be 1/1/2025? Or whenever the legislative body addresses it sometime early next year? I mean even if the federal tax credits are legislated out of existence, that's going to take a bit of time to actually transpire - so you may have a window of time when the new WA state budgets are refreshed and available and the federal tax credits are still available. The POS (point of sale) $7500 tax credit availability at time of purchase is legit - you simply then have to claim it on your taxes when you file the following year is all - this change was made earlier this year to allow buyers the ability to realize the savings right away - as opposed to not getting the tax credit back until filing time the following year.

I read that the rebate would be available in the second half of the year if it becomes available at all. There is a possibility I wouldn't qualify for the entire rebate is what it looks like after further research. I do qualify for section 179 which we will might participate in next year. It did occur to me that I should have paid more attention to what was available regarding the Equinox. The Bolt problem has me turned off to all but Tesla and I;m not a fan of the look.

Never in a million years would I have predicted that this thread would end with @easyrider purchasing an EV

It's not over yet, lol.

Bill

 

[DrQ]

This will probably seem odd coming from me but I'm looking at the Chevy Equinox EV with a 319 mile range. What makes this seem less odd is I'm looking at this because Washington State has a $9000 EV rebate and tax credits. These look like they cost about $40,000 or less with sales tax. Then there is the Federal tax credit of $7500. That's about $16,500 worth of incentives. So the Equinox EV would cost about $24,000 ?

Somehow I think I'm missing something because it seems too good a deal. I'm guessing that ev's in Washington are exempt from sales tax making the EV cost about $20,000 ? This just doesn't seem right.

Bill

Have you test driven the Equinox EV FWD vs the AWD which will not be available for 2025? That's 213 HP vs. 288 HP for that size of vehicle. AWD may be a consideration in your climate.

My Bolt EV is FWD but for its size it has 200 HP and is pretty zippy, won't beat a Tesla, but is fun nonetheless.

 

[easyrider]

Have you test driven the Equinox EV FWD vs the AWD which will not be available for 2025? That's 213 HP vs. 288 HP for that size of vehicle. AWD may be a consideration in your climate.

My Bolt EV is FWD but for its size it has 200 HP and is pretty zippy, won't beat a Tesla, but is fun nonetheless.

I've seen the Equinox but not the EV version. I'm not sure I've ever seen a Bolt in real life. I've never drove a Tesla but see more every year in our area. Talking to my wife makes me think a Lexus Hybrid or 4Runner is what see likes but she like the look of the EV Equinox on screen and the incentives were crazy.

Bill

 

[DrQ]

I've seen the Equinox but not the EV version. I'm not sure I've ever seen a Bolt in real life. I've never drove a Tesla but see more every year in our area. Talking to my wife makes me think a Lexus Hybrid or 4Runner is what see likes but she like the look of the EV Equinox on screen and the incentives were crazy.

Bill

You need to drive it IRL before you get too wound up.

 

[easyrider]

You need to drive it IRL before you get too wound up.

Indeed, but with the high incentive on a decent looking vehicle like the Equinox EV I think I could sell it at a profit. I was thinking $8,000 - $10,000. I'm thinking that's what many people did. The used low mile EV could qualify for a $4,000 incentive to the next buyer. I noticed many EV Equinoxes on Cargurus are selling used at dealers for almost new prices and the lower incentive.

Bill

 

[youppi]

I've seen the Equinox but not the EV version. I'm not sure I've ever seen a Bolt in real life. I've never drove a Tesla but see more every year in our area. Talking to my wife makes me think a Lexus Hybrid or 4Runner is what see likes but she like the look of the EV Equinox on screen and the incentives were crazy.

Bill

This is strange. Normally, people look for a category of car that meets their needs/budget and hesitates between N models in that category but you name 3 cars that are not all in the same category of cars.
If you need a 4Runner (a truck built on a ladder frame) to go off-road then you must discard the other 2 because they don't meet your needs otherwise you must discard the 4Runner from your list. Driving a 4Runner only on the road at 16/19 mi per gallon is not very economical nor good for the environment.
I suppose that the Lexus hybrid is a SUV in the same size as the Equinox EV otherwise it's another strange comparison.

Between hybrid and full EV depends on your needs and if it's the only car you have. I have a gas SUV for long distance and a Bolt EUV for day to day commuting and I charge at home only.

 

[davidvel]

This is strange. Normally, people look for a category of car that meets their needs/budget and hesitates between N models in that category but you name 3 cars that are not all in the same category of cars.
If you need a 4Runner (a truck built on a ladder frame) to go off-road then you must discard the other 2 because they don't meet your needs otherwise you must discard the 4Runner from your list. Driving a 4Runner only on the road at 16/19 mi per gallon is not very economical nor good for the environment.
I suppose that the Lexus hybrid is a SUV in the same size as the Equinox EV otherwise it's another strange comparison.

Between hybrid and full EV depends on your needs and if it's the only car you have. I have a gas SUV for long distance and a Bolt EUV for day to day commuting and I charge at home only.

Normally, yes.

 

[easyrider]

This is strange. Normally, people look for a category of car that meets their needs/budget and hesitates between N models in that category but you name 3 cars that are not all in the same category of cars.
If you need a 4Runner (a truck built on a ladder frame) to go off-road then you must discard the other 2 because they don't meet your needs otherwise you must discard the 4Runner from your list. Driving a 4Runner only on the road at 16/19 mi per gallon is not very economical nor good for the environment.
I suppose that the Lexus hybrid is a SUV in the same size as the Equinox EV otherwise it's another strange comparison.

Between hybrid and full EV depends on your needs and if it's the only car you have. I have a gas SUV for long distance and a Bolt EUV for day to day commuting and I charge at home only.

Life's to short to drive boring cars. If we acquire a new vehicle it will be to reduce our taxes in the future to offset capital gains or to flip. I think the Equinox would be a great flip with a decent profit considering the incentives. Without the incentives it doesn't make any sense to buy, imo.

The 4Runner is very reliable and can haul a lot of cargo. I like these and many of our friends own them. They hold their value over time. I'm not worried about gas costs as I think they will be going down. I'm not understanding why you think a 4Runner is bad for the environment as any EV is also very bad environmentally speaking. 4Runners qualify for section 179 deprecation plus bonus depreciation.

A Lexus Hybrid like the RX 450 might be ok but there isn't a significant fuel savings. They look nice and more importantly a RX450 qualifies under section 179. I think the resale value holds up with these but not as well as the 4Runner.

Someone did mention a Tesla falling under into section 179. It does but we have no Tesla service centers and the depreciation on these is very high with little resale value after 5 years.

I'm not worried about gas costs. We definitely don't drive as much as we had in the past.

Bill

 

[easyrider]

Normally, yes.

Says Dave.

Bill

 

[SmithOp]

You might want to verify the vehicle qualifies for the Federal tax credit, it's a complicated requirement to get the full $7500.

Credits for new clean vehicles purchased in 2023 or after | Internal Revenue Service

You may qualify for a clean vehicle tax credit up to $7,500 if you buy a new, qualified plug-in electric vehicle or fuel cell electric vehicle.

www.irs.gov

 

[easyrider]

You might want to verify the vehicle qualifies for the Federal tax credit, it's a complicated requirement to get the full $7500.

Credits for new clean vehicles purchased in 2023 or after | Internal Revenue Service

You may qualify for a clean vehicle tax credit up to $7,500 if you buy a new, qualified plug-in electric vehicle or fuel cell electric vehicle.

www.irs.gov

Thanks Dave, I read these and received an explanation that made sense. When you buy the car you receive the $7,500 tax credit from the dealer.Even though the rules say the tax credit is not to be used for resale, there is no time limit of how long you have to own it. In most cases, the deprecation would be more than the $7,500 tax credit is why I think there is no time limit. The state rebate which was available created a situation where the EV could be sold resale and even with the depreciation there would be a decent profit even after a year, imo.

Bill

 

[DrQ]

Electric Cars Could Last Much Longer Than You Think​

Rather than having a shorter lifespan than internal combustion engines, EV batteries are lasting way longer than expected, surprising even the automakers themselves.

Electric Cars Could Last Much Longer Than You Think

Rather than having a shorter lifespan than internal combustion engines, EV batteries are lasting way longer than expected, surprising even the automakers themselves.

www.wired.com

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

How many car bodies last 20 years? Interiors? The price of batteries are declining, and are expected to decline further over the next few years.

 

[HitchHiker71]

How many car bodies last 20 years? Interiors? The price of batteries are declining, and are expected to decline further over the next few years.

ICE's are getting more and more complex due to emissions controls alone - whereas BEVs are getting less complex and cheaper to build over time. A recent report based on battery cost curves shows that by 2030 battery packs will be less expensive to replace than engines in ICE vehicles on average.

EV battery soon cheaper to replace than ICE engine – report says

Car research firm Recurrent’s new report says EV battery replacement will cost less than replacing an internal combustion engine (ICE)

evsandbeyond.co.nz

 

[HitchHiker71]

You might want to verify the vehicle qualifies for the Federal tax credit, it's a complicated requirement to get the full $7500.

Credits for new clean vehicles purchased in 2023 or after | Internal Revenue Service

You may qualify for a clean vehicle tax credit up to $7,500 if you buy a new, qualified plug-in electric vehicle or fuel cell electric vehicle.

www.irs.gov

It's easy to determine, the list is published on fueleconomy.gov here for anyone to use: https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax2023.shtml

The Equinox EV is on the list just FYI.

 

[easyrider]

ICE's are getting more and more complex due to emissions controls alone - whereas BEVs are getting less complex and cheaper to build over time. A recent report based on battery cost curves shows that by 2030 battery packs will be less expensive to replace than engines in ICE vehicles on average.

EV battery soon cheaper to replace than ICE engine – report says

Car research firm Recurrent’s new report says EV battery replacement will cost less than replacing an internal combustion engine (ICE)

evsandbeyond.co.nz

Many new vehicles are definitely not as reliable as their older model. An example is Toyota. The 6 cylinder mated to the 6 speed transmission is a bullet proof setup that was used in Highlanders and 4Runners. Now they use a turbo 4 cylinder that has too many moving parts to be reliable as it once was.

Honda went with a vcm system that deactivates 3 of the 6 cylinders on their very reliable 3.5 l engine making the engine not as reliable. Honda also used a high pressure fuel system that would leak gas into the oil. Supposedly these problems were corrected with software but even so it took Honda off my list.

I think most of this will turn around as regulations are reversed. I bet section 179 will be fully reinstated and the gas engines the norm again.

Bill

 

[HitchHiker71]

Long form, but good, video from Out of Spec on the cons of BEV ownership - a must watch for anyone considering buying a BEV - it's not all roses - there are pros and cons to every type of vehicle - and BEVs are no different:

 

[davidvel]

Electric Cars Could Last Much Longer Than You Think​

Rather than having a shorter lifespan than internal combustion engines, EV batteries are lasting way longer than expected, surprising even the automakers themselves.

Electric Cars Could Last Much Longer Than You Think

Rather than having a shorter lifespan than internal combustion engines, EV batteries are lasting way longer than expected, surprising even the automakers themselves.

www.wired.com

This cannot be possible based on all the opinions and things that have been ASSuMEd in this thread.